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Masterofnone169

Used Games (Oh boy!)

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Ok then.

So before I start this post I would like you all to watch a video done by the in/famous Totalbiscuit/halibut based on used games just of people fully understand the situation before hand.

 

 

So.  Now that we have that out of the way let's talk about it shall we.

 

Now.  I buy used games, I buy them quite often.  In fact I went off and trading in a view games without manual and managed to grab myself a used copy of Brutal Legend, Kingdoms of Amular: Reckoning, Jak II and Sonic Chronicles: Dark Brotherhood.  However as you were probably told by the video above, None of the developers or publishers got a single penny out of that purchase.  Am I deemed evil for doing this?  I certainly hope not, but yet I do feel bad about what I did because of it.  I want to support Devs and the Publishers but games today are a lot more expensive then they use to be and they are going up even more with the announcements from EA saying that all their games will be £60 brand (spanking) new.  For those you in the US, £60 comes at around about $80.  That is a lot of money they expect us to pay for one game that might only take me 4 - 8 hours to complete.  Hence why many people buy used.  Not only that but sometimes you can't a brand new copy of a game because it came out 2 - 3 years ago.  I only recently got into the Darksiders franchise, but because the first game in the series came out over 3 years ago it is next to impossible to buy a new copy of it unless I shop online (at which point why the hell should I give a damn about used games because it mostly doesn't affect you).  Do you lot feel like their should be something to at least help support used games without devs and publishers constantly being "STOP BUYING £$%^&*! USED YOU CHEAP "£$%^" (any games devs reading reading this no indention of being offensive).

 

Personally I can't help but think that their should some form of law or partnership with these retailers, developers and publishers to all at least get a fair share of the profit.  That way way we can still buy used games for a slightly lesser price (maybe not as cheap but you get what I mean), and still be able to support the devs and publishers to help them make new and better games without them having to force us in to buying DLC or (grunts) micro transactions.

 

What are your thoughts on the matter.

 

P.S.  Am I the only who is kind of surprised that isn't a topic of this already here?

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The publisher's "fair share" of the profit is literally 0%. Video games are the only industry that the content marketers feel they are entitled to dictating the product's secondary ownership after the original point of sale, and if they are that hurting for money perhaps they should stop throwing tens of millions of dollars at game development for even third tier games.

It's also very naive to think that there is any real relation between microtransactions and other monetization schemes and used game sales. You could be your ass if the Xbone went through as intended there would still be publishers ripping people off with unlock codes and legacy content ported forward.

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As used games are the bulk of my PS3 library, I would say that they are a great thing that allows many people who cant afford 60$ games to get one or two equally great games for sometimes half the price. Sure, it sucks that publishers/developers don't get profit from them (a thing that still baffles me; why doesn't Gamestop give publishers 20% proft from each used tittle sold rather than nothing at all...) but with pratices like DLC and Online-Passes, they do have means to generate money from used games.

 

In fact, if it wasn't for used games, I wouldn't have gotten nearly as many PS3 tittle as I got due to getting many great games from my former local PlaynTrade and Gamestop in bunches for 30-40 bucks at a time, leading me to own almost 20 plus games by the end of 2011 (the year I got my PS3). Not to mention the option to trade in games has helped me a lot in getting a lot of my gaming collection as well.

 

That being said, due to getting PS+ in April this year, I would have to say Digital might be the better option as I got full tittles like Alice Madness Returns, Ratchet HD Collection, Max Payne 3, Prince of Persia Forgotten Sands and many Vita tittles for more than half the price off from there retail counterparts (I cant believe I have more than 40 Vita games, and I just got the thing in June blink.png), and the publishers still get profit of the games even at there cheap prices.

 

If used games want to still be around in the coming years, then retailers have to find a way developers/publishers get profit from them (even if its a lower percentage) and make getting the retail versions of tittles more attractive than digital copies, as Sony (among other publishers) are really pushing digital with great values and sales, making retail versions less and less attractive. I love used games, so I hope something works out so they still exist, but things need to change to make that happen, and with all the counter actions from EA and Microsoft for anti-used, then more will follow.

Edited by RK64

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I know I didn't watch the video, but being a long time gamer and a collector at that, I know this topic well already. No, the publishers and devs dont deserve any more of the profits that they are already getting. They were going to try this with the new xbox and we all saw how that is going over. These companies are getting greedier and greedier and feel that are different from all other used markets. Its an american's right to resell things if we want to and the companies should not feel they are entitled to more money just because we sold the item.

 

I often agree with Nintendo's take on this. If your game is being resold often, there may be something wrong with your game that you need to fix. Nintendo games, at least from the stats I saw correct me if I'm wrong, are often alot less sold back less often than the others. They try and keep it that way. If people are selling back your game, doesnt that send a signal that people dont want to keep your games for some reason or another.

 

I'll always support used games. I can't afford the new ones and only buy them on rare occations. And as for the reason why these companies such as gamestop and such wont or cant give them more cut is then they would raise their prices to compensate for the lost or just not sell that companies games anymore. I can understand why, because it seems like you are being greedy to demand more from your customers after the fact. No other used industry does this, but video game devs and publishers act like they are special, which they arent.

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Thanks very much for that thought RK64.  I understand the fact that PS+ is a great subscription based source but the thing is I can't help but think that if everyone goes strictly digital on this stuff it will lead to physical copies not existing any more.  Something I personally don't like the sound of.  I like buying physical copies of games.  In fact I trading in Warhammer 40k Space Marine, Rayman Origins, Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Rush Adventure, just because they didn't have manuals with them.  I like collecting.  And if physical goes away completely then it is going to upset a lot of people.  Anyway that was really off topic so I should stop this now.


I know I didn't watch the video, but being a long time gamer and a collector at that, I know this topic well already. No, the publishers and devs dont deserve any more of the profits that they are already getting. They were going to try this with the new xbox and we all saw how that is going over. These companies are getting greedier and greedier and feel that are different from all other used markets. Its an american's right to resell things if we want to and the companies should not feel they are entitled to more money just because we sold the item.

 

I often agree with Nintendo's take on this. If your game is being resold often, there may be something wrong with your game that you need to fix. Nintendo games, at least from the stats I saw correct me if I'm wrong, are often alot less sold back less often than the others. They try and keep it that way. If people are selling back your game, doesnt that send a signal that people dont want to keep your games for some reason or another.

 

I'll always support used games. I can't afford the new ones and only buy them on rare occations. And as for the reason why these companies such as gamestop and such wont or cant give them more cut is then they would raise their prices to compensate for the lost or just not sell that companies games anymore. I can understand why, because it seems like you are being greedy to demand more from your customers after the fact. No other used industry does this, but video game devs and publishers act like they are special, which they arent.

 

Problem with that is though is that (if you watched the video) with music they all make their money not from CD's (let alone digital albums) but from concerts and merchandise that said concerts, Films you have about 3 - 4 vases of making money.  First their is cinema, then their is DVD/rental, then we have Channels that hire the film from the company to get it on TV.  The only thing I believe stands by your point is books.  Video games have on secondary source of income.  Yes you have merchandise, but usually only the most hard core of fans would buy those and it only works if it is a big franchise.  Brutal Lengend for example, I have never seen a little action figure of the main character Eddie Riggs or even a poster.  Why?  Because it was only game.  Only certain games can achieve this such as Minecraft and the reason for that is because it is always evolving.  but needless to say yes you are right.  Most devs and publishers can be a bit greedy sometimes.  Thanks for the post though

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Thanks very much for that thought RK64.  I understand the fact that PS+ is a great subscription based source but the thing is I can't help but think that if everyone goes strictly digital on this stuff it will lead to physical copies not existing any more.  Something I personally don't like the sound of.  I like buying physical copies of games.  In fact I trading in Warhammer 40k Space Marine, Rayman Origins, Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Rush Adventure, just because they didn't have manuals with them.  I like collecting.  And if physical goes away completely then it is going to upset a lot of people.  Anyway that was really off topic so I should stop this now.

 

I'm not wishing physical disk-based games to go, as its been part of the medium for decades and its great for collectors to find that 18 year old game from a great deal online and putting it part of there vast collection of rare games; that feeling must feel really satisfying.

 

But, games are an very expensive thing and for people that cant afford to shell out 60 bucks for the best new game, then digital is something that makes games cheaper to sell (look at PC tittles, only 40 bucks for brand new games vs 60 bucks for the PS3/360 versions) as they don't have other costs attached to them, only the game content itself. As for my PS+ example, that's just how I feel that companies could ease digital as a great option for some as you get incentives (cloud saving, free games, trials) to use its biggest incentive, its discount, to purchase more games, which always give the developer money, even if the price is dirt cheap.

 

Retail I feel will always exist for games in some fashion, its just coming to the point that Digital is becoming a real option for some people that has as much benefits as Retail does.

Edited by RK64

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Sorry if it was a bit of a rough response of course before. I've been a collector for awhile now and with a still growing large library, used games are where I get a good portion of my libary from. To clarify a bit, I often am not buying the current year games that often. Most games I play aren't exactly new to begin with most times, so the used market is a blessing to me. I love physical games and collecting, so the digital market has no appeal to me at all. Its a great thing dont get me wrong, but it shouldn't dominate and try and force us to use it. Just like with books, it should be the users choice, not the companies demand.

 

I read the news all the time on these publishers and developers and it just seems more and more they are trying to squeeze us for all we are worth. They definately deserve their fair share of the profits when it comes to the new games, but when it seems like you are them trying to squeeze your customers and the retailers of their shares as well, its when things start getting iffy. I know gamestops model is not perfect, but its an option for people like me that have no game stores aaround other than it. I use ebay alot for games as well, so I know how to be picky and know what is a good buy and a bad buy. Heck, I have a to buy list I keep about ebay prices and the lowest prices I've seen games to make sure I dont get ripped off by people on there and to get a great deal =)

 

I've just not had great confident in giving these people cuts of profits from used games when they are already starting these DLC and microtransaction practices that seem in alot of cases, not all mind you, to be for the pure sake of trying to squeeze money from people instead of adding to the fun factor. Its one thing to say, here are a bunch of EXTRA costumes, weapons and items that you can't get and may want for your game that dont really add much to the core gameplay other than fun stuff. But its another when some companies start saying, hey if you want to complete the game or be any good, then you HAVE to buy this DLC and these add ones and such.

 

I hope you can see where I'm coming from and why I don't feel they deserve more money with some of the current practices that are taking place out there.

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Sorry if it was a bit of a rough response of course before. I've been a collector for awhile now and with a still growing large library, used games are where I get a good portion of my libary from. To clarify a bit, I often am not buying the current year games that often. Most games I play aren't exactly new to begin with most times, so the used market is a blessing to me. I love physical games and collecting, so the digital market has no appeal to me at all. Its a great thing dont get me wrong, but it shouldn't dominate and try and force us to use it. Just like with books, it should be the users choice, not the companies demand.

 

I read the news all the time on these publishers and developers and it just seems more and more they are trying to squeeze us for all we are worth. They definately deserve their fair share of the profits when it comes to the new games, but when it seems like you are them trying to squeeze your customers and the retailers of their shares as well, its when things start getting iffy. I know gamestops model is not perfect, but its an option for people like me that have no game stores aaround other than it. I use ebay alot for games as well, so I know how to be picky and know what is a good buy and a bad buy. Heck, I have a to buy list I keep about ebay prices and the lowest prices I've seen games to make sure I dont get ripped off by people on there and to get a great deal =)

 

I've just not had great confident in giving these people cuts of profits from used games when they are already starting these DLC and microtransaction practices that seem in alot of cases, not all mind you, to be for the pure sake of trying to squeeze money from people instead of adding to the fun factor. Its one thing to say, here are a bunch of EXTRA costumes, weapons and items that you can't get and may want for your game that dont really add much to the core gameplay other than fun stuff. But its another when some companies start saying, hey if you want to complete the game or be any good, then you HAVE to buy this DLC and these add ones and such.

 

I hope you can see where I'm coming from and why I don't feel they deserve more money with some of the current practices that are taking place out there.

 

no I see where you are coming from.  Thanks a lot.

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Problem with that is though is that (if you watched the video) with music they all make their money not from CD's (let alone digital albums) but from concerts and merchandise that said concerts, Films you have about 3 - 4 vases of making money.  First their is cinema, then their is DVD/rental, then we have Channels that hire the film from the company to get it on TV.  The only thing I believe stands by your point is books.  Video games have on secondary source of income.  Yes you have merchandise, but usually only the most hard core of fans would buy those and it only works if it is a big franchise.  Brutal Lengend for example, I have never seen a little action figure of the main character Eddie Riggs or even a poster.  Why?  Because it was only game.  Only certain games can achieve this such as Minecraft and the reason for that is because it is always evolving.  but needless to say yes you are right.  Most devs and publishers can be a bit greedy sometimes.  Thanks for the post though

479878_650141961668931_147909211_n_zps42

HAI! The name's Crow, PRESIDENT OF SSMB! And I'm a huge fan of Brutal Legend that I threw 150 bucks just for that limited edition statue and its pretty fucking awesome. Never regretted buying it. There's a few more Brutal Legend stuff in the Double Fine store, namely an artbook and shirts. I just wanted to correct this injustice.

But anyways about the issue about used games. While its indeed a shame that developers aren't getting well deserved money its a bit convenient for the player since other than the price, if the player loves the game so much and supports it very much they'd figure out ways to support their favorite developers in the future.

And this is coming from a Darkstalkers fan. And I'm only saying that cause I bought Darkstalkers Resurrection, day 1 so Capcom would make a new Darkstalkers game but they said nope to that so yeah. :/

Edited by Crow the BOOLET

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479878_650141961668931_147909211_n_zps42

HAI! The name's Crow, PRESIDENT OF SSMB! And I'm a huge fan of Brutal Legend that I threw 150 bucks just for that limited edition statue and its pretty fucking awesome. Never regretted buying it. There's a few more Brutal Legend stuff in the Double Fine store, namely an artbook and shirts. I just wanted to correct this injustice.

But anyways about the issue about used games. While its indeed a shame that developers aren't getting well deserved money its a bit convenient for the player since other than the price, if the player loves the game so much and supports it very much they'd figure out ways to support their favorite developers in the future.

And this is coming from a Darkstalkers fan. And I'm only saying that cause I bought Darkstalkers Resurrection, day 1 so Capcom would make a new Darkstalkers game but they said nope to that so yeah. :/

 

First things first.  That figure of Eddie is worth 150 bucks.  I wasn't referring to collectors, I was referring to little action figures that you would see in say toys'r'us.  What injustice am I talking about.  I wasn't talking about hardcore collectors who will go out of their way to grab a figure, I'm talking about a casual market who would buy it for their kids and have fun with.  And don't tell me it's too violent of a game to have things like those, Halo have a huge variety of Mega blocks sets and that is a 15 rated FPS.

 

In terms of the real topic yeah your right.  A person who truly supports the dev will go and buy a real copy or buy the DLC or whatever.  Just one thought though.  What if a game doesn't get DLC?  Here's looking at you Sonic Generations.  let's say you bought it used and you liked it so much you want to support the devs.  No DLC besides a pinball game that most likely you got along with the copy.  How to you support them now?

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First things first.  That figure of Eddie is worth 150 bucks.  I wasn't referring to collectors, I was referring to little action figures that you would see in say toys'r'us.  What injustice am I talking about.  I wasn't talking about hardcore collectors who will go out of their way to grab a figure, I'm talking about a casual market who would buy it for their kids and have fun with.  And don't tell me it's too violent of a game to have things like those, Halo have a huge variety of Mega blocks sets and that is a 15 rated FPS.

 

In terms of the real topic yeah your right.  A person who truly supports the dev will go and buy a real copy or buy the DLC or whatever.  Just one thought though.  What if a game doesn't get DLC?  Here's looking at you Sonic Generations.  let's say you bought it used and you liked it so much you want to support the devs.  No DLC besides a pinball game that most likely you got along with the copy.  How to you support them now?

Sorry. I get too passionate when it comes to Brutal Legend. I'm practically married to the game. lawl But anyways I haven't ran into the figure you mention but I do know what your talking about. It might be another limited edition thing cause I can't find it anywhere either. But the statue is a pretty good deal, and they're still selling them. But I digress cause I'm getting my love for Brutal Legend get the best of me tonight. D:

Hmmm... That is a good thought to think about. If anything, throw your money at them when you see something you really like. I mean not every game is going to get DLC like you mentioned but I suppose whistling the company's tune might just you can do for the moment.

But ehhhhh... I'm too pumped up right to think straight. I'm gonna go lay down before I hurt myself.

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When it comes to supporting developers you enjoy and such, as I mentioned before, I RARELY buy new games, but that does mean I do occationally. Sonic games are often the main exception to my try not to buy $60 game rule I keep for myself to buy more games. I support sonic and I'll go out and buy the games when they are released to play them right away. This is also to avoid spoilers people feel the need to plaster everywhere I would go with no consideration for others that dont want spoilers. So yes, if you like a developer alot, buying new does support them alot, but just because you buy used doesnt mean you dont like them. The game just may simply not be in print anymore by the time you can get it, such as older games or games on a console you didn't have at the time and the game is now only a used game.

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I don't have too much to say on used games, but I usually only buy used if it's available (very rare) or if the Gamestop employee says we have a used copy do you want to buy used (halo 4), while the only game I bought used that messed up was sonic heroes (the ps2 version) I haven't had any problems buying used.

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Honestly it does actually annoy me that developers get 0% of Used games sales.  There is something a bit "wrong" about that to me.  Though on the flipside they did get their share when the game was initially purchased.  It's not like it's possible for a game to ever be sold used without money having gone to the developers at some point.

 

I just feel kinda bad when I put off buying a game for ages or I'm not QUITE invested enough to buy it new... turns out I love it... and I can't say I've ever shown support for the people who made it as a result.

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I've only just thought about something.  While used games do hit the devs and they get a bit peed off about it.  What about those who just want people to play their game?  Take Edmond Mcmillan, the designer for Super Meat Boy and a part of Team Meat.  I remeber him saying that his doesn't care if you pirate his game or not because he just likes knowing that people out there are playing it and having fun.  Now if more devs and publishers were like this then we most likely wouldn't be in this situation and everyone would be happy about it.  The retails get the money they oh so love and devs will get the feeling of being awesome knowing they made a best seller.

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I only buy games new and for full price if they are games I really want ie Bioshock Infinite and the Last of Us. If the game has been out for a while but is still expensive in shops and I want it really bad, I'll buy it online for a cheaper price but still give developers of the game their money. I bought Ni no Kuni new on Amazon for only £25 but in GAME a new copy (even pre owned) would be double that price!

As for pre owned games, I only buy those if it's a game I do NOT want to pay full price for nor if the game is not a particular must have for me like Paper Mario SS. Also if the game isn't widely available and not very cheap. I'm looking at you Xenoblade Chronicles! D:

I also buy pre owned games if they're by developers who I don't want to give money to because I don't like them, EA games for example.

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The way I see used games is similar to everything else I buy...

 

If I bought a Kit-Kat and didn't want it, I could give it to a friend! Why does he not have to pay a percentage of it if he's getting it from me? Because I payed for that specific item and I can do what the fuck I want with it - like giving it away.

 

If I bought a Music CD and after listening and ripping all the tracks from it, I give to a friend to keep. Why does he not have to pay a percentage for the Music CD that I went and bought? Because I payed for the CD and I an do what the fuck I want with it - like giving it away.

 

If I bought a book and after reading it 3 times and getting bored of the story, I give it to a Used Book store. Why do they not need to pay a percentage to the author for re-selling that book that I purchased at the original price? Because I fucking purchased it at the original fucking price and can do what the fuck I want with it - like giving it to a Used Book store.

 

The same logic applies to games, clothes, movies and more. People say gamers are self-entitled pricks and it can be true. But to think a Developer can reclaim money on the item that I payed for Brand fucking-spanking new is absurd. If they fail to pick up less sales than expected from New games, well..that's their fault for not making a possibly good game. It could also fall to marketing, company reputation maybe? (in this generation, possibly) Either way, you don't see Hasbro jump onto Ebay and try to claim ownership over the unboxed Star Wars figures that are being sold. Why should anything else be different?

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There IS a difference between different products though.

 

With clothes and figures, when you sell it, there is nothing to gain from that product anymore.  They're physical things.  You can't continue wearing them or taking the clothes off them displaying them respectively.

 

With games, you got to fully enjoy that game, even if you don't plan to play it again.  When you give it to a friend, they get to fully enjoy it too, and the developer is not rewarded for it.

 

Your music CD example is actually extra shit in a way.  You get to keep the product via ripping it, and then the next person gets it for free.

 

 

You can understand that it's not a case of "you aren't allowed to own what you paid for", but more of a case of "used products are denying sales for the person who created it".  When you rip a music CD and give it to someone else, you are denying a sale to the musician you love enough to share their music.  Had you not shared it, that person might have had to buy it to hear it (the train of thought is "well if they didn't, better they heard the musician's creation at all than not at all, but when you give the option for free then that's a guarantee they won't buy it more or less isn't it).

 

 

But I admit I'm not strict with any of this.  I've sent friends whole albums before on the basis of "I don't think they can really afford this album but I really want them to share the experience of this music I love so there's no other way they'd listen to it", and I've accepted whole albums off friends before.

 

 

 

The problem is the weighing up of pros and cons are all based on technicalities and your own personal choice of viewing your actions.

 

When you copy an album to give to a friend, are you promoting the band so they'll prolly go on to buy future albums for themselves?  When they then say they really liked it and you copy EVERY album that band has done for your friend, is it still promoting the music or is it basically pirating in a very soft, easy-to-feel-like-you're-doing-no-wrong-because-it's-not-physical way?

 

 

Naturally games aren't quite as exploitable as music, nor as physical as figures or clothes.  They're an awkward sort of inbetweeny point I can never make up my mind about.

Edited by JezMM

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True, video games are slightly different than cars, houses, and books when it comes to used status, but still, it seems greedy at times when developers think they are ENTITLED to it. It would be one thing if you were buying the used games directly from them or off their website, then they would obviously get a second cut. The only problem with these companies trying to get more out of used games is that this would keep prices higher for a long time. The reason I think this is when you look at the digital market, not counting steam, you see so often where the physical copies of games are often cheaper than the digital copies because the companies so often refuse to lower the prices of digital games over time. They want to keep squeezing us for money and people get bad reputations.

 

I can completely understand why people buy used from some companies, EA and Capcom being the best examples. Becauseof business pratices over the reacent years, people dont feel bad about denying them more money when they have become rather money grubby. However, you then have smaller companies and indies that are making the games for us and just trying to make a buck while making us happy, people want to support them and for them to make more games for us because they care. EA doesn't really care about their customers anymore. It has all become about making a buck instead of making us happy.

 

I just feel these companies are becoming too greedy for their own good.

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I always pay full price and usually buy day 1 on a game release if it's from a developer whom I love and adore and can't wait to pick up their product and I'm not waiting for a used copy to come about. This is usually the case for me with fighters. Shoot, I even buy games I'm not too familar with if it means supporting the developer. I'm buying Ducktales for the Wii U just to support WayForward and I never played the original.

 

I'm a firm believer that if a game is sold used and the product is good enough and offers some sort of DLC, the developer will make their money off of that or at least a portion of it. Although, I'm not a fan of lending out my games, especially if they're a game that can be played once through and the majority of what the game has to offer can be accessed with said play through.

 

I feel that if developers/publishers really wanted to make more money off of used copies, they should drop the price of their new games or at least drop the price shortly after it's release to something reasonable. Like the first few months, sell the game for $60 and after that sell it for $40 or something, or at least give more bang for your buck buying it brand new like more exclusive content, discounts of future DLC and etc. Even do something like what Nintendo does and give a code that can be redeemed on their website that gives you free swag when you accumulate enough points... I don't know just give that full price buyer more bang for his buck.

 

You know what I absolutely hate though.... those who justify pirating a new game because of the price. Last I checked, gaming is a luxury, don't go stealing because you feel the price is too high. That's a topic for another day though.

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I only buy new games from developers I actually like, such as Sonic Team and Naughty Dog. I pretty much always wait for a price drop for games, hence the reason I'm holding off of the PS4 because I have a ton of games to buy for my PS3. Basically, I pretty much always buy used, but if its a new IP, I wait for a chance to buy it cheap but new.

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I think if used games were ever gotten rid of I definitely would not be able to get much, like 70% of my entire arsenal is used and not having them could really put a damper on things.

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I think if used games were ever gotten rid of I definitely would not be able to get much, like 70% of my entire arsenal is used and not having them could really put a damper on things.

I fully understand that. A large part of my growing library is used as well. There is no way I could afford new games until they dropped down to like $20 most likely. Sure, I know I'm cheap and likely COULD get more of the expensive games right after they come out, but I would rather wait and get better deals on games and get like three or four games instead of that single sixty dollar game.

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