Characters you don't want to return

[Kuzu]

This is gonna turn into a "I hate this character" topic isn't it.

[Vertekins]

Blaze and Metal Sonic. Blaze is a mary sue who out shines all the other females in powers in competence, Metal is a memetic lame ass boss who has to act like Shadow(copies his chaos control) to be a threat to Sonic plus his whole Ima jealous machine made to lose to the main character is really old. Both fanbases irritate me, it's like they want the best for the worst.

 

The more I hear of the term 'Mary Sue' and the way it's applied to characters who in no way fit it, the more I believe that it's a convenient term to lambast a character without going into the oh so inconvenient matter of describing why they're disliked. It's a term that's rapidly losing it's credibility.

 

For the record, no, Blaze ain't a Mary Sue.

 

Blaze's appearance is never noted as being particularly unusual. Vanilla notes in Sonic Rush how she's wearing distinctive clothes whilst describing her to Sonic. However, in no way is this noted to be a special snowflake-esque trait and it is never described in loving, Sue-ish detail which is a hallmark of the descriptions of many a Mary Sue's physical appearance.

Blaze, according to her Sonic Channel profile on SEGA's official Japanese Sonic site, has A-cup Angst i.e She's very put-out by her... ahem...'underwhelming' chest size. A so-called 'flaw' regarding her physical appearance (You never heard that from me)

Blaze's abilities are realistic regarding her position. She's the guardian of the Sol Emeralds, a position that entails the physical dexterity that she exhibits. Her Super (Burning?) form is also justified by her established connection to the Sol Emeralds and even then, her Burning form is not handed to her on a plate - She didn't even KNOW that she could attain that form at first and when she does finally 'attain' it, it was as a result of her compelling character development, how she embraces friendship and realizes that her stubborn 'do it all alone and accept help from no-one' was a huge burden on herself both mentally and physically. This develops incredibly realistically and not at all in a Sue-ish way.

Blaze also has character flaws and fears. She's not exactly the coolest cucumber, having a propensity for irritance especially regarding Marine and being very inclined to violence when she feels that something stands in her way. Her anger at Eggman and Eggman Nega's threats to destroy her kingdom in SRA made her inclined to take an irrational approach to dealing with them because she was so outraged by their boasts that she couldn't think straight and Sonic had to talk sense into her. She can come also across as being rather hard and even a tad snooty ("Who's this little girl?" upon being faced by Marine for the first time). She's also quite acrophobic, she is deeply fearful of heights.

And lastly, none of the other characters put Blaze on some kind of pedestal. They treat her akin to the way they treat their other friends. Her royal position is never ever treated as a means to elevate her above anyone else and she never exploits it, even telling her bodyguard Gardon to stop referring to her with honorifics. Sonic's approach to her is a product of his well-established friendly and amiable personality no different to how he treats his other friends/allies. They work very well together in SRA and also very believably. No canon character is reduced to being an 'awestruck cheerleader' regarding her.

 

 

 

And LOL Silver haters, they mad because Silver is actually more powerful than Knuckles and Shadow and cuter than Amy and Tails thus making them obsolete.

 

Hahahaha.

 

No.

 

They hate him because he's a character that has very little potential and has never been utilized even remotely well in any of his appearances. His powers came right the fuck outta nowhere and his design sucks ass. No one gives a shit whether or not Silver is cute or cuter than any other character and that in itself is a fairly shallow reason to base an entire liking of a character off-of. And comparising the powers of an immature kid with psychokinesis and a very physically powerful guy is a subjective comparison.

 

Silver's never made any character obsolete. Not in a million years.

[Diogenes]

This is gonna turn into a "I hate this character" topic isn't it.

It wasn't already?

[Kuzu]

It wasn't already?

....shit.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

It wasn't already?

 

Well, I thought it wasn't. There's come constructive criticism for these characters right?

[Dr. Crusher]

Like CSS and Akito, for the most part I don't truly wish that many characters away, since I know every character has his/her fans. I was never big on Shadow, but his recent Senorita Ssssanic form is humorous for me. Silver was a moron, but he had a great boss fight in Generations. Sonic himself really gets on my nerves, but... well he's the main character, so that explains itself. (Well, that, and he's slightly more tolerable for me in 2010 onwards due to having some sort of "Buzz Lightyear" quality that I can't really explain without sounding like a moron myself.) Sure, there's a few that I would be okay with simply not seeing again, but in terms of actively wishing one away, that's a rarity.

 

There's also the fact that, much like my fondness for most Sonic characters in general, I actually like a good few of the more unpopular characters, or at least would like to experiment more with them. Marine the Raccoon? Love her to bits. E-123 Omega? Bloody hilarious if I say so myself, I'd even say he was one of the more tolerable parts of ShtH. Even Shade the Echidna? Yes, even Shade the Echidna. I don't know, call me overly optimistic, but for the most part, I don't like not giving characters a chance, and even if a character is flat or doesn't have that much to work with, usually I tend to respond with "Well, let's see what I can do with this. How can I create my own interpretation?" Yes, that means I'm a person who actually prefers even Shade over Sonic. He annoys me that much. What a horrible specimen I am.

 

In fact, there are only two real examples I can think of that are the exception. (Note: This isn't counting forgotten characters, such as Mighty and Honey, nor is it counting dead characters, such as Mephileslie.)

 

First off, Eggman Nega.

 

Okay, so it was established that Blaze's world is some sort of parallel to Sonic's, and as such Blaze can basically be considered an alternate of Sonic himself. That's all very well, but if that's the case with them, why does Robotnik get a guy that looks exactly like him? You have a character with a legitimate form and backstory known as Blaze the Cat, and then you have... Eggman Nega. It feels a bit odd to me. It also allows many a fan to have another excuse to not try hard with their fancharacters, just making "Sonic Nega", or "Espio Nega", or "Something Something Boob Demon Nega", and calling it a day.

 

But back when Rush was first out, I decided to let it slide, because if he is just a stand-in for Robotnik and not much else, then surely he can't be that much of a problem, right? And sure enough, throughout that game, he didn't really do anything that specifically annoyed me (well, nothing that was blatant, anyways...)

 

Then Rivals came along and... well... Things went downhill from there. Apparently he's Robotnik's descendant now... Should have known?

 

Without even getting into the fact that Nega's plan to get rid of Robotnik in the past is on par with Mephiles in the lineup of those most likely to win the Not Thinking This Through Academy Award, the game itself was completely insulting about this. Robotnik being impersonated wasn't cool when Metal Sonic did it, it won't be cool when a guy that looks exactly the same as him already does it. This was the first game to really hammer in how vastly superior Nega was meant to be, not helped that Shadow and Silver are the only ones to actually find out about his identity.

 

And then Rush Adventure showed up, and it's all about the alternate dimension side of things again. Aside from that one part at the end, he wasn't too bad here.

 

But then Rivals 2 was next, and he was immediately back to being the descendant. He executes his Flames of Familiarity scheme in this game by doing exactly the same thing as he did in the first Rivals, right down to only half the cast finding out, using a Robotnik disguise and everything. Like the first Rivals, the game was practically flaunting how Nega was much more evil than the real Eggman, just short of Sonic X-levels. And then, just when things couldn't get any worse... Metal Sonic 3.0. Just... just Metal Sonic 3.0. It's really sad when I'm not even exaggerating in any way when I say he's literally just Metal Sonic with G-Merl's colour scheme. Seriously. That's it. That's all he is. There is nothing else to say about this robot. Not even a different body structure or anything.

 

Now thankfully, ever since then he's only appeared in the Mario & Sonic Olympic series, and thank ye gods for that. But either way, when you have a Robotnik-lookalike that completely degrades the original in every single way... well it shouldn't be too surprising that I'm not exactly going to be the biggest fan of him.

 

Spin Attaxx basically said all the important parts already. If you want to create a more ruthless Robotnik, just do that with the one and only Robotnik. You don't even have to change his personality, just have him be ten times more cruel whilst retaining his funny lines and nature. Simple. Fun. (Which they seem to be doing anyways starting with Colours, so that's jolly good.) Don't make a clone character for that sort of thing ("evil" versions of villains only work when they're like the scenario in Bowser's Inside Story, in my opinion), because not only does that insult the original, but it means the clone won't stand out as a character as a result.

 

Obviously Blaze's recurring nemesis would be better off being radically different, much like Blaze herself compared to Sonic, but if Blaze's enemy absolutely has to look like Robotnik for whatever reason, why not use Whisker instead? He has his own unique brand of personality, he has a cooler design than Nega, he has the likes of Johnny alongside him, and you could even make some sort of handwave that Whisker's being used as a scout in Blaze's world for Robotnik whenever he's too busy dealing with Sonic's world... That sounded silly, I know, but I'm just spitballing here.

 

Eggman Nega will always be third place in the ranking of Sonic characters I just do not like, with Mephiles the Dark in first place, and Scourge the Hedgehog in second. I never plan to lash out at those who do like him, it's their tastes after all. He's just not someone I can get into, as a character or an antagonist.

 

The other one is a choice that might be a bit of an unpopular one: G.U.N.

 

Not so much a character as it is a group of little guys that can't do anything right, but a choice is a choice. Now I don't mind when they're allllll the way back into the background and it's only Rouge calling to them once or twice or something like that, but when they actually get involved with things... Bah. Now, before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not saying Sonic "can't" work with the concept of a mostly realistic military organisation, or that Sonic isn't good enough of a franchise to "handle" that sort of thing. I'm sure it probably could work somehow. What I'm saying is that I just don't care about this concept to begin with. I know I sound pretentious when I say this, and I apologise for that, but the existence of something like G.U.N. in Sonidom always felt... wrong, to me. The only times I've ever cared about anything relating to them are all minor or irrelevant things (the Commander being a massive ham, the G.U.N. Fortress looking rather pretty, the mad G.U.N. Truck in Generations (which was probably modified by Robotnik anyways)), but otherwise? In terms of their story and how they act? Nothing. Not interested in any way whatsoever. And like Shrek, their robot designs don't appeal to me either. For me, they're only good for making crap Transformer jokes.

[Plastic Smile]

Blaze is strong and pretty competent, but she's never portrayed as being perfect or anything. In fact I think they're more honest about her flaws than they are with most characters.

Sounds like he's more of a sue than Blaze.

 Nope, you can't justify why she has a super form and more than enough speed to beat any female and some males in a fight, plus she has her own fangirls, loads of angst, and tons of emotional baggage over simple stuff. She's like Bella Swan as a cat and without a boyfriend but Sonic is almost close.

 

The more I hear of the term 'Mary Sue' and the way it's applied to characters who in no way fit it, the more I believe that it's a convenient term to lambast a character without going into the oh so inconvenient matter of describing why they're disliked. It's a term that's rapidly losing it's credibility.

 

For the record, no, Blaze ain't a Mary Sue.

 

Blaze's appearance is never noted as being particularly unusual. Vanilla notes in Sonic Rush how she's wearing distinctive clothes whilst describing her to Sonic. However, in no way is this noted to be a special snowflake-esque trait and it is never described in loving, Sue-ish detail which is a hallmark of the descriptions of many a Mary Sue's physical appearance.

Blaze, according to her Sonic Channel profile on SEGA's official Japanese Sonic site, has A-cup Angst i.e She's very put-out by her... ahem...'underwhelming' chest size. A so-called 'flaw' regarding her physical appearance (You never heard that from me)

Blaze's abilities are realistic regarding her position. She's the guardian of the Sol Emeralds, a position that entails the physical dexterity that she exhibits. Her Super (Burning?) form is also justified by her established connection to the Sol Emeralds and even then, her Burning form is not handed to her on a plate - She didn't even KNOW that she could attain that form at first and when she does finally 'attain' it, it was as a result of her compelling character development, how she embraces friendship and realizes that her stubborn 'do it all alone and accept help from no-one' was a huge burden on herself both mentally and physically. This develops incredibly realistically and not at all in a Sue-ish way.

Blaze also has character flaws and fears. She's not exactly the coolest cucumber, having a propensity for irritance especially regarding Marine and being very inclined to violence when she feels that something stands in her way. Her anger at Eggman and Eggman Nega's threats to destroy her kingdom in SRA made her inclined to take an irrational approach to dealing with them because she was so outraged by their boasts that she couldn't think straight and Sonic had to talk sense into her. She can come also across as being rather hard and even a tad snooty ("Who's this little girl?" upon being faced by Marine for the first time). She's also quite acrophobic, she is deeply fearful of heights.

And lastly, none of the other characters put Blaze on some kind of pedestal. They treat her akin to the way they treat their other friends. Her royal position is never ever treated as a means to elevate her above anyone else and she never exploits it, even telling her bodyguard Gardon to stop referring to her with honorifics. Sonic's approach to her is a product of his well-established friendly and amiable personality no different to how he treats his other friends/allies. They work very well together in SRA and also very believably. No canon character is reduced to being an 'awestruck cheerleader' regarding her.

 

 

 

Hahahaha.

 

No.

 

They hate him because he's a character that has very little potential and has never been utilized even remotely well in any of his appearances. His powers came right the fuck outta nowhere and his design sucks ass. No one gives a shit whether or not Silver is cute and that's an extremely subjective concept anyway. And comparising the powers of an immature kid with psychokinesis and a very physically powerful guy is a subjective comparison.

 

Silver's never made any character obsolete. Not in a million years.

 All this aint gonna convince me why she's not a mary sue because her whole character is more special than other female characters. It's her whole "Modest and powerful" theme that gives it away plus the fact she's more or less better than Amy Rose in everyway as a heroine and a fighter. Amy Rose is the main female lead, but she doesn't have a super form does she. It should be her to be the one with the first female super form. Also all the clumsiness, shyness, distance, and sense of maturity she might as well be Sally as a cat.

 

Silver at least is a better male character in comparison to say Shadow or Knuckles. He being as powerful as them yet inexperienced and a rookie, he is the perfect response to all the elite super heroic male characters with tons of chaos powers and superpowers. And his is potentially the most powerful yet he doesn't have the experience to use them. Blaze in comparison just has god mod flames and a super form that she can beat nearly anyone minus the top males.

[Solly]

 Nope, you can't justify why she has a super form and more than enough speed to beat any female and some males in a fight, plus she has her own fangirls, loads of angst, and tons of emotional baggage over simple stuff. She's like Bella Swan as a cat and without a boyfriend but Sonic is almost close.

Blaze having a super form actually makes sense, though, especially compared to other characters in the series. Rush's story was all about parallel elements. Two worlds, two heroes, two Eggmen, two sets of Emeralds, two super forms. It was a pretty consistent theme throughout. 

Characters like Amy turning super wouldn't make as much sense. Despite being the "female lead" (which is sort of debatable since her influence on the plot is usually minor) her intended role in the story is, and always has been different from Blaze. 

 

But it's funny that you're talking about how cheap and strong she is and then going on to say that Silver might be the most powerful character and even that he makes other characters obsolete. You literally just complained that Blaze is better than Amy even though she's the lead, despite bringing up that Silver was cuter and stronger than anyone else.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Solly

[Pawn]

 Nope, you can't justify why she has a super form and more than enough speed to beat any female and some males in a fight, plus she has her own fangirls, loads of angst, and tons of emotional baggage over simple stuff. She's like Bella Swan as a cat and without a boyfriend but Sonic is almost close.

 

 All this aint gonna convince me why she's not a mary sue because her whole character is more special than other female characters. It's her whole "Modest and powerful" theme that gives it away plus the fact she's more or less better than Amy Rose in everyway as a heroine and a fighter. Amy Rose is the main female lead, but she doesn't have a super form does she. It should be her to be the one with the first female super form. Also all the clumsiness, shyness, distance, and sense of maturity she might as well be Sally as a cat.

 

Silver at least is a better male character in comparison to say Shadow or Knuckles. He being as powerful as them yet inexperienced and a rookie, he is the perfect response to all the elite super heroic male characters with tons of chaos powers and superpowers. And his is potentially the most powerful yet he doesn't have the experience to use them. Blaze in comparison just has god mod flames and a super form that she can beat nearly anyone minus the top males.

 

It sounds like the issue you have with Blaze is that she's female and that Amy should be the one with a super form simply because she's 'top girl', not that she's an overpowered 'sue' or whatever. Seriously; when have Blaze's elemental abilities ever been god mode? I can't think of one example.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Pawn

[Diogenes]

Nope, you can't justify why she has a super form

She has her own set of emeralds. That's a hell of a lot better a reason than Silver, who has a Super form because...???

and more than enough speed to beat any female and some males in a fight,

Why is this a problem? Someone's gotta be "the strongest female character", and none of the female characters before her had any overt superpowers like a lot of the guys do.

plus she has her own fangirls,

What?

loads of angst, and tons of emotional baggage over simple stuff.

She really doesn't angst any more than Silver does; once you get past Rush she's pretty much done with any kind of angst.

Amy Rose is the main female lead, but she doesn't have a super form does she. It should be her to be the one with the first female super form.

Being first doesn't grant her dibs. Amy's not the sort of character to have a Super form; she's one of the closest to "normal" in the playable cast.

Silver at least is a better male character in comparison to say Shadow or Knuckles. He being as powerful as them yet inexperienced and a rookie, he is the perfect response to all the elite super heroic male characters with tons of chaos powers and superpowers.

He has telekinesis that completely neuters Sonic's abilities, he has Chaos Control (though admittedly he never uses it for anything other than time holes), and he gets a Super form. He's practically the poster boy for characters loaded with powers (just shy of Shadow, maybe), and calling him inexperienced doesn't change that since his inexperience basically never matters.

Blaze in comparison just has god mod flames and a super form that she can beat nearly anyone minus the top males.

How are Blaze's fire powers god-mod when Silver can just lift and toss people away and they can't do a thing to stop it? And why is it so terrible for Blaze to be one of the most powerful characters, while it's perfectly alright for Silver?

[TrueBlue]

Like everyone said, I too will go for Silver. He's got some okay concepts, but I just wouldn't give a shit if he mysteriously disappeared forever.

But mainly I have to go for Shadow. Who'd have guessed? Look, before I get rugby tackled, I wanna make it clear that I'm all for characters getting second chances to improve. But FUCK Shadow, I'm sorry. He's HAD several chances to be a good character and all have been wasted. I'm tired of people laughing at me for my like of Sonic and how a lot of it is down to this quite embarrassing character, but most of all I'm tired of him getting all these games in the spotlight to shine and not shining. Granted that hasn't happened since '06, but I don't want him getting ANOTHER chance at being a better character for them to just throw away while characters like Team Chaotix and Rouge (remember when she had a life outside Shadow? ...me neither.) don't get the screentime they deserve.

...I feel like this is a risky post to make Not to mention one of my few recent Sonic posts, and ohey, its a negative one.

 

Allow me to retort.

 

First off, when people laugh at you for liking Sonic, don't let if effect you. Second, Shadow is not the only reason as to why they laugh. Sure, his game was hilarious for all the wrong reasons, but people were already making fun out of the series before then. The trend continued afterwards, if you look at Sonic 06's legacy with the kiss scene and awkward inter-species romance, nothing that had much to do with Shadow as a character. I'd even argue that his story was the least cringeworthy and annoying out of the main three. Not good of course, but nothing horrible. While it's true that ShTH did cause embarrassment to the franchise, it wasn't exactly an exception to how the franchise was at the time, and I feel it's unfair to pin it all on Shadow as a character.

 

Shadow has pretty much been out of the spotlight for nigh-on seven years. Yes, you can note games like Black Knight, Chronicles and Rivals, but he was only a side character among other playable characters. His presence hasn't really had a large effect on the games in question, outside of being a rival figure to Sonic.

 

Also, your point on Rouge. She and Shadow have been close from the very beginning. Don't you remember when Shadow saved her from Prison Island, or when they argued as to who Shadow really was? She arguably had more interaction with Shadow than Knuckles in her debut, and this was followed up in subsequent games. To say that her life hasn't always involved Shadow to some degree is wrong. Hell, I think she is starting to have a life outside of Shadow. Rivals 2, Chronicles and Generations all depict her as being reasonably independent from him, even when he's present in the game. 

 

I understand wanting other characters to get the spotlight, but that doesn't begin and end with the presence of Shadow. Why sacrifice one character just so others can get more of the spotlight when there's potential for all of them to do so?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Ringo ~

[Dr. Crusher]

Maybe he's just not a fan of Shadow.

 

*shrug*

[Kuzu]

Also, your point on Rouge. She and Shadow have been close from the very beginning. Don't you remember when Shadow saved her from Prison Island, or when they argued as to who Shadow really was? She arguably had more interaction with Shadow than Knuckles in her debut, and this was followed up in subsequent games. To say that her life hasn't always involved Shadow to some degree is wrong. Hell, I think she is starting to have a life outside of Shadow. Rivals 2, Chronicles and Generations all depict her as being reasonably independent from him, even when he's present in the game. 

 

I don't think his point about Rouge is completely wrong tho; after her debut, she hasn't served much purpose other than a supporting character for Shadow and basically playing second fiddle to his adventures. Yea, they are close and its not like I expect Rouge to never have any role in Shadow centric plots, but for the most part she hardly gets any time to shine as a character and her role basically devolves into being his sidekick.

 

Its especially jarring because she didn't start out like that; I know people like to say her role in SA2 was inconsequential, but for the most part she was really in it for herself.

Maybe he's just not a fan of Shadow.

 

*shrug*

 

I understand that, I don't think its fair to blame Shadow tho for people making fun of him for liking Sonic, or other characters having a decreased role.

[Dr. Crusher]

...I wasn't. It was just a light jokey post.

 

Nevermind...

[Kuzu]

Oh....well carry on, don't mind me.......>.>

[Blacklightning]

In my eyes, saying a character shouldn't return is tantamount to saying that either their percieved flaws are entirely subjective from person to person, or that their current problems stem from issues that are entirely fixable without a complete character rewrite and/or redesign. Neither stand out to me as particularly good reasons to retire a character entirely.

 

The only real exception that comes to mind is Eggman Nega, mainly because in a universe where most of its counterparts in Sonic's own don't even share the same species it's kind of hard to justify one which is a gray-heared recolour with a goggle swap and a Julian Robotnik complex. Then again, it doesn't exactly appear as though he's even in the picture anymore, so I'm not really sure what everyone is wishing for here.

[Plastic Smile]

 

 

Blaze was just gifted like Sonic apparently was, it's her heritage her whole life to be beyond special and unlike Sonic was beststowed special powers from birth to hold special powers and protect special gemstones aka Knuckles yet Sonic has no special heritage or backround other than having super speed and he saves the day, world and universe and can beat gods down with a super form. How she gets to be more worthy of a super form before Amy is beyond me, going by that logic. The difference is clear Sonic was nobody and just a normal hedgehog who went fast before he was the champion of his world while Blaze was a entitled royal queen and on top of that guardian princess of her world who special from the beginning.

 

I doubt Amy is so minor she was influencing most of SA1 and part of SA2. Her presence is just as important as Tails is. And furthermore, she's the first female sonic character in the game series.

 

Silver is the Sonic of the future(Who else is gonna fight evil and apparently save the futute when the current heroes are dead). His role demands he gets some power to stand on par with the Hedgehogs and sometimes Knuckles who on their own admission defeat Gods and overpowered chaos powered threats on a daily bases. Blaze gets to be a parrelel Sonic and by that admission stronger than all the girls and some guys in the series because Sonic Team won't give Amy Rose some badassery despite coming first and being the most iconic female.

 

 

 

He's the new sonic, from the future and it's champion. It's better than a blatent Shadow/Knuckles female expy who apparently is royalty and all emcompassing as a queen.

 

Man you just admitted Sonic Team's incompetence in making current females stand on grounds with the males. Amy for all her adventures with Sonic and Tails should have enough experience and ring energy to be stronger and more powerful which Archie thankfully does for her. Rouge was Knuckles rival once, now she's a sidekick to Shadow. And finally Cream is always intended to be Amy's Tails, so she should have some use beyond cheese.

 

Not gonna argue with you with this just agree to disagree.

 

Amy is not normal. She can beat up Knuckles anyday. She's just as little bit fast as Sonic and Shadow sometimes, and she apparently can hold her own against Eggman with a team of a obese cat and a little bunny girl.

 

LOL I like how you call out Shadow. Might as well add Sonic, since he can use asspulls and random power ups like nobodies business and apparently holds back his speed and strength as well as his other abilities. Sonic can manipulate the wind and go beyond the speed of sound and apparently can best gods in his normal form. It's not that Shadow and Silver are too powerful, it's Sonic himself that needs powerful rivals in orders to balance him since he gets more ridiculously stronger and faster each game some how. Silver is no more as strong as Blaze, I find them equal since Silver's weakness is fast opponents like Sonic and SHadow, and pretty sure blaze is faster than Silver plus he's a glass cannon.

 

You still haven't told me why Blaze should be the overpowered female and not Amy or Rouge.

 

 

[Mauro Fonseca]

I generally think everyone should return in an NPC capacity in a comedic sense. I want Black Arms mixed with Wisps, and the story making fun of it. I love Eggman Nega, at the time he served as a fun throwback of sorts to the vision of Eggman many more grimdark fans wanted, and I'd love for that to continue- if Eggman's a menacing guy now, continue making Nega act like "Robotnik was more eviler than Eggman!" and make him AoSTH Robotnik. Or make him a bumbling guy trying to be Julian. Basically I think he can be used to poke great fun at the way the Robotnik concept has so many different interpretations.

 

So if asked to choose a character not to return... it's difficult, I really do draw a blank of sorts. So the only one I can say is Princess Elise, since it would be difficult to integrate her honestly and with fun without being dragged by the baggage of her use in 2006.

 

EDIT: Plastic if you're going to whine about in walls of text about how Amy is being stomped down by the system, man, and how Silver isn't OP but Blaze totally is, could you at least use correct coding?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[Diogenes]

e: fuckin' quote system...

 

He's the new sonic, from the future and it's champion.

And Blaze is an alternate universe's Sonic.

Man you just admitted Sonic Team's incompetence in making current females stand on grounds with the males.

You pissing on the one female character who can isn't helping anything.

Amy for all her adventures with Sonic and Tails should have enough experience and ring energy to be stronger and more powerful which Archie thankfully does for her.

Sonic's world isn't an RPG where you can gain arbitrary amounts of powers by grinding for EXP. Amy simply isn't the kind of character who becomes a top-tier fighter. She can hold her own against Eggman's bots and other generic enemies, but she isn't a god-slaying superhog and there's nothing wrong with that.

Amy is not normal. She can beat up Knuckles anyday. She's just as little bit fast as Sonic and Shadow sometimes, and she apparently can hold her own against Eggman with a team of a obese cat and a little bunny girl.

I said she's as close to normal as a playable character gets. And no, she's not capable of beating up Knuckles regularly.

You still haven't told me why Blaze should be the overpowered female and not Amy or Rouge.

Because she was designed to compete with Sonic, and Amy and Rouge weren't.

Basically you're just fangirling to defend the characters you like and bash the characters you don't, and if that's the best you can do I'm not interested in continuing this.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Diogenes

[azoo]

There's only one way I could justify Eggman Nega being around still, and that's by being an older white-haired Eggman from the future who's calmed on the outside but lost it on the inside and just jumps time and space telling different origin stories / motives to mess with everyone's heads. Considering how Sega may never come up with that backstory nor try to really explain it, I'm pretty much okay with him being around, considering I keep my headcanon applied.

 

 

Also, let me respond to Plastic I wanna give a go.

 

 

He's the new sonic, from the future and it's champion. It's better than a blatent Shadow/Knuckles female expy who apparently is royalty and all emcompassing as a queen.

 

She, you mean? Its also strange that a character can't be royalty and have a personality, or else they're too overpowered or "perfect". Would you rather her be one of those princesses with no traits other than being a generic princess without a tinge of personality and no way to fend for herself (like Elise)?

 

 

Man you just admitted Sonic Team's incompetence in making current females stand on grounds with the males. Amy for all her adventures with Sonic and Tails should have enough experience and ring energy to be stronger and more powerful which Archie thankfully does for her. Rouge was Knuckles rival once, now she's a sidekick to Shadow. And finally Cream is always intended to be Amy's Tails, so she should have some use beyond cheese.

 

Don't blame Rouge, Cream or Amy's shortcomings on Blaze being a competent character. Blame the writers. Blame the producers. Don't blame an actual well-developed character just because they don't seem to know how to write the other ones right.

 

 

Not gonna argue with you with this just agree to disagree.

 

It sounds like you just don't have an argument to give.

 

 

Amy is not normal. She can beat up Knuckles anyday. She's just as little bit fast as Sonic and Shadow sometimes, and she apparently can hold her own against Eggman with a team of a obese cat and a little bunny girl.

 

Amy is very "normal". She was meant to be that. In a cast of characters with superhuman strength, speed, smarts, ingenuity, etc; she's one of the few that's more down-to-earth and relies on her own wit more than the others (she wields a hammer for a reason). Also, she could beat up Knuckles in Generations for the same reason listed as before: they're shit at writing Knuckles. 

 

And she's only ever been as fast as Sonic and Shadow because in games like SA2 and Heroes where they have multiple playable characters like that, they tend to make them go all around near the same speed for the sake of the game playing the same. In her actual speed (Sonic Adventure is the best ref for this I guess), Amy isn't all that fast. Its why she can't run from people like Metal Sonic, or needs Sonic's help in the first place.

 

LOL I like how you call out Shadow. Might as well add Sonic, since he can use asspulls and random power ups like nobodies business and apparently holds back his speed and strength as well as his other abilities. Sonic can manipulate the wind and go beyond the speed of sound and apparently can best gods in his normal form. It's not that Shadow and Silver are too powerful, it's Sonic himself that needs powerful rivals in orders to balance him since he gets more ridiculously stronger and faster each game some how. Silver is no more as strong as Blaze, I find them equal since Silver's weakness is fast opponents like Sonic and SHadow, and pretty sure blaze is faster than Silver plus he's a glass cannon.

 

Sonic can do just about anything if he puts his mind to it (within his range, that is, for the sake of other characters being useful) because he's the main flipping character and you play as him primarily in every single game. There's really no excuse as to why you can't understand that. XD

 

Silver and Shadow are both overridden with loads of powers and strengths, but at least Shadow's occasional limitations, personality and backstory (well, the non-tainted one from SA2) helps him as a character. Silver in comparison doesn't have a leg to stand on, so the most he offers is just being naive little Coolio McMindTrick.

 

On that note, Silver and Shadow aren't even rivals with Sonic anymore. Most of the characters that start off as rivals with Sonic end up becoming some sort of friend to him. And guess what: that same thing applies to Blaze, since she sorta-kinda started off as a rival character, albeit a reluctant one.

 

You still haven't told me why Blaze should be the overpowered female and not Amy or Rouge.

 

She's not overpowered, and shouldn't ever be. Why should anyone be overpowered? 

[Phoenix Flame]

The only character I strongly dislike is Rouge the Bat, because I find a sexualised cartoon bat seriously disturbing.

[Kuzu]

The only character I strongly dislike is Rouge the Bat, because I find a sexualised cartoon bat seriously disturbing.

 

Her sex appeal really hasn't been prominent at all in recent years....unless you just hate cleavage.

[Phoenix Flame]

Her sex appeal really hasn't been prominent at all in recent years....unless you just hate cleavage.

 

...she's a cartoon bat.

 

It's obviously different to a human girl. A cartoon bat with cleavage, yeah, I find that really weird.

[Wraith]

There's only one way I could justify Eggman Nega being around still, and that's by being an older white-haired Eggman from the future who's calmed on the outside but lost it on the inside and just jumps time and space telling different origin stories / motives to mess with everyone's heads. Considering how Sega may never come up with that backstory nor try to really explain it, I'm pretty much okay with him being around, considering I keep my headcanon applied.

 

 

So....Eggman Nega is basically Porky Minch? That's actually a really cool idea...Sega should have gone with this. I would have actually given a damn about Eggman Nega if this were the case. 

[DarkLight]

...she's a cartoon bat.

 

It's obviously different to a human girl. A cartoon bat with cleavage, yeah, I find that really weird.

 

I can think of maybe 4 other anthromorphic female characters that are more blatant with their sex appeal than Rouge.