Characters you don't want to return

[Kuzu]

...she's a cartoon bat.

 

It's obviously different to a human girl. A cartoon bat with cleavage, yeah, I find that really weird.

 

there are way worse examples than Rouge.

[Mauro Fonseca]

...she's a cartoon bat.

 

It's obviously different to a human girl. A cartoon bat with cleavage, yeah, I find that really weird.

 

... She's a cartoon femme fatale. She's obeying the rules of the archetype.

[Phoenix Flame]

It's not that I think that Rouge is a really extreme sexy character. She's obviously not. C'mon guys, I'm not that out of touch with the world  .

 

It's not that I am offended by her either...I've seen far worse. This is the internet.

 

I just find it very strange that a sexualised, however light, cartoon bat exists, and that people like it enough for her to be popular.

 

I'm sorry, but I think sexualising actual humans is a bit more sane (even if I don't agree with it, but that's a seperate subject).  Even if she is sticking to the archtype, it's still bloody stupid to have a sexy bat. Honestly, a bat. I cannot get over it.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Phoenix Flame

[SenEDDtor Missile]

It's not that I think that Rouge is a really extreme sexy character. She's obviously not. C'mon guys, I'm not that out of touch with the world  .

 

It's not that I am offended by her either...I've seen far worse. This is the internet.

 

I just find it very strange that a sexualised, however light, cartoon bat exists, and that people like it enough for her to be popular.

 

I'm sorry, but I think sexualising actual humans is a bit more sane (even if I don't agree with it, but that's a seperate subject).  Even if she is sticking to the archtype, it's still bloody stupid to have a sexy bat. Honestly, a bat. I cannot get over it.

not any odder than having sexualized cartoon foxes like Krystal or Carmelita, or sexualized bunnies like Berry from Conker's Bad Fur Day.

Edited August 22, 2013 by 743 ED Missile

[Phoenix Flame]

not any odder having sexualized cartoon foxes like Krystal or Carmelita, or sexualized bunnies like Berry from Conker's Bad Fur Day.

 

I'm not exactly a supporter of that either.

 

Ahh, I don't think many people are gonna agree with me on here. It's obviously a personal preference thing.

[Splash the Otter]

And LOL Silver haters, they mad because Silver is actually more powerful than Knuckles and Shadow and cuter than Amy and Tails thus making them obsolete.

Okay, Silver is one of my favorite characters, but I feel the need to refute this claim. The only way Silver is more powerful than Knuckles is in terms of having psychokinesis. If they only used their physical skills, Knuckles would win hands down. Meanwhile, Shadow was able to beat Silver by slowing time and kicking him in the back of the head.

 

And as for being cuter than Amy or Tails, I'd just like to point out that cuteness is a subjective thing. I could also argue that Tails is the cutest character in the series, but I don't want to be hypocritical.

[castell-neath]

Going out on a ledge here and say.....Chatoix, marine, Big, Cream, The riders "gang" and Rouge

 

A break from Eggman would be nice, but also odd at the same time.

 

I want to see more Blaze and metal sonic though

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

not any odder than having sexualized cartoon foxes like Krystal or Carmelita, or sexualized bunnies like Berry from Conker's Bad Fur Day.

 

Compared to things like the Sunflower.......... yeah, Rouge is pretty tame.

[Tara]

On the subject of Rouge, I'm just going to be blatantly honest here and say that I find her appearance, even as tamed down as it has become, to be completely off-turning.  Like, really off-turning.

 

But if I'm going to argue for or against her presence in the series, it would have nothing to do with her bat boobies but everything to do with the fact that I just don't like her as a character.  I mean, she has some appeal.  I like the whole sassy, ladylike thief archetype.  But then they had to work in the whole government agent thing and make her a good person and I don't know.  It just didn't appeal to me.  It's not that I have anything against giving her a bit more depth by making her have a good heart despite being selfish, but the way it's portrayed, she just seems in your face half the time.

 

Oh and it also seems like she loses her personality whenever she's serious.  Like, every time there's a bit of sentimentality or she's in some sort of fight (excluding her ordeal with Knuckles towards the end of SA2), she just stops being Rouge and starts being female action hero or soft, kindhearted lady.  It's hard to explain, but I'd rather they rewrite her character a bit or just not use her anymore, and not because she's a sexualized bat.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Akito

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But mainly I have to go for Shadow. Who'd have guessed? Look, before I get rugby tackled, I wanna make it clear that I'm all for characters getting second chances to improve. But FUCK Shadow, I'm sorry. He's HAD several chances to be a good character and all have been wasted.

I didn't know one game equaled several. Someone's math must be off here.

He was well received in the first game, everyone bland in the second, it was his own game was shit, and everyone sucked in Sonic 06. I don't see how Shadow has had several chance and everyone else hasn't followed suit and sucked with him because Sonic Team fucked up in the last generation up to and including the star character and franchise. You say you're for second chances, practice what you preach and apply it to everyone instead of being arbitrary and selective over who had more chances.

Also...

I'm tired of people laughing at me for my like of Sonic and how a lot of it is down to this quite embarrassing character, but most of all I'm tired of him getting all these games in the spotlight to shine and not shining. Granted that hasn't happened since '06, but I don't want him getting ANOTHER chance at being a better character for them to just throw away while characters like Team Chaotix and Rouge (remember when she had a life outside Shadow? ...me neither.) don't get the screentime

I'm tired of people refusing to look for other options and insist on refusing to fixing what's broken at the expense or benefit of others.

Did it ever occur to you that instead of shrinking given roles and denying chances to improve, we could build more for those that lack them without sacrificing others chances to shine? Instead of throwing away a character others like because the ones you want aren't improving how about we just improve the damn characters, no "if", "ands", or "buts" about it?

[Chaos Incarnate]

I wouldn't be too upset if Jet the Hawk never, EVER returned. This means the other Rogues, who I don't actually have a problem with wouldn't return, but it's all worth the greater good in my mind Yeah, I can't stand Jet. If it's not his obnoxious parrot/ geeky voice that gets on my nerves, it's is irritating personality. Nothing about him appeals to me. He's a sore loser that can't get over being slower than Sonic, and acts like a d!ck to everyone, thinking he's all that. I'm sure we're supposed to hate him, but I'll be a very happy camper if he never returns.

[Nepenthe]

Jet being a dick just because is pretty much the point of his character, and in turn it's a refreshing change of pace from nearly every other non-villainous cast member we have. His jealousy, inability to handle losing, and greed make him such a thorough tool on par with Eddy from Ed, Edd, n Eddy, a nice, temperamental outlier within his gang with which you can easily exploit fun interactions from, that I'm kind of dismayed the Rogues are tied to the Riders series. They're prime comedy fodder to me.

[Kuzu]

I used to hate Jet too, but then I realized as above pointed out, he's basically the only character who's a jackass just because, and unlike the likes of Shadow, there's no heart of gold to cover it up. He's too unpleasant to be a hero(or even antihero) but not enough of a threat to be a full on villain. Its nice,.

 

On the subject of Rouge, I'm just going to be blatantly honest here and say that I find her appearance, even as tamed down as it has become, to be completely off-turning.  Like, really off-turning.

 

But if I'm going to argue for or against her presence in the series, it would have nothing to do with her bat boobies but everything to do with the fact that I just don't like her as a character.  I mean, she has some appeal.  I like the whole sassy, ladylike thief archetype.  But then they had to work in the whole government agent thing and make her a good person and I don't know.  It just didn't appeal to me.  It's not that I have anything against giving her a bit more depth by making her have a good heart despite being selfish, but the way it's portrayed, she just seems in your face half the time.

 

Oh and it also seems like she loses her personality whenever she's serious.  Like, every time there's a bit of sentimentality or she's in some sort of fight (excluding her ordeal with Knuckles towards the end of SA2), she just stops being Rouge and starts being female action hero or soft, kindhearted lady.  It's hard to explain, but I'd rather they rewrite her character a bit or just not use her anymore, and not because she's a sexualized bat.

 

 

Her being a GUN Agent just kinda mitigates what's good about the character, i.e. being an amoral thief out for herself. I know she works mainly for jewels, but for the most part, you never get the feeling she isn't on the good guy's side.

 

Rouge should be a character who always has her own agenda, an agenda which nobody can figure out, and can lead to her helping the heroes and assisting Eggman. Obviously I wouldn't want her to do anything too immoral so we can still root for her, but at the end of the day she should be out for herself.

[Mr. Taxi]

...I don't see how "that's the point" is an excuse for making a terrible character like Jet. It's not post-modernism we're talking about here, nor is he some kind of metaphor. But if he makes you guys laugh, fine.

[Nepenthe]

Unless you just believe non-villainous characters cannot be beset with some glaring negative qualities, I don't know what to tell you in response to that. *shrugs*

[Mr. Taxi]

Never said that. But giving negative qualities to a character just because that's what they hadn't done yet anyway isn't healthy at all. It's not like him being a dick has any effect in anyone but us viewers.

[Wraith]

Jet being a big enough dick to cheat in a race he spent the whole game bragging about winning is pretty much why he was able to beat Sonic and get the chaos emeralds that Eggman would later use to betray him if I remember correctly. Doesn't that count as him affecting other people?

Edited August 23, 2013 by Wraith

[Nepenthe]

Him being a dick- and the leader- pretty much affects the relationships between him and his team mates. His very personality allows for interesting writing and interactions to go on between the group, to the point that I remember people actively praising the comedy and lightheartedness in the first Riders when it was a new thing. Overall, I really don't see him as all that different from Eddy, or Donald and Daffy Duck (especially Looney Tunes Show Daffy, who is pretty much Jet ten times over with an added dose of stupidity), or Pete, or Yosemite Sam; highly temperamental characters who are enjoyable in their childish anger, as well as how much things tend to backfire against them.

[Johnny Boy]

Silver. He was obviously an attempt by Sega to see if they could replicate the success they had with Shadow and of course, they failed. The only way I can see Silver returning is if they retcon him being from Blaze's dimension instead of the future. Even then, he was a pointless character to begin with.

Also I'd like to add Bark, Bean, Ray, and Mighty to the list. The former 3 served their roles as extras and Mighty shouldn't come back because I feel that the current members of the Chaotix works best as a trio.

[Mesmerist]

We may never see another Riders game after the fiasco that was Sonic Free Riders, so the Babylon Rogues may be gone for good, as well. I liked the original Sonic Riders but I felt the addition of that trio specifically for those games was superfluous. They were almost fresh off the heels of reinstating another trio in Team Chaotix, and I already felt that they were pushing the character limit with those...

[Tara]

I think what makes Jet more annoying for me than, say, Eddy is probably a mixture of two things:

 

1) Contrast.  In Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy, all the characters have sort of obnoxious voices.  The whole series is built around obnoxious, off-the-wall, non-sequitur humor with a hefty amount of slapstick and farce thrown in for good measure.  You expect that kind of annoyance in a show like that, and even as an outcast, Eddy fits in more with his own world because he's an outcast in a world full of the same freakish nature.

 

Jet, on the other hand, is an obnoxious character in a series full of... slightly less obnoxious characters?  No one else acts like him, nor does he seem to have any sort of defining character aside from being a bit annoying.  Also, I hate his voice but whatever.  He just seems unnecessarily annoying, at least in my opinion.  Sure, that may be the point, but that's like saying that the Annoying Orange is a well-written character because he is, indeed, annoying.  It's not fun to watch, so it doesn't really matter if that was their intent, I just don't want to see him again.

 

2) The jokes in Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy, Donald, and Daffy Duck cartoons rarely fall right through the ground as much as it does with Jet.  I mean, he has some funny parts, don't get me wrong, but for every time I found myself laughing, I felt myself groaning at how poorly the joke is followed up.

 

I don't know.  I'm not big on Jet.  I wouldn't mind giving Sega a chance at reinventing the character to be a little less grating, but the three outings he's had haven't impressed me.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Akito

[Nepenthe]

I would disagree heavily on the first point. For one, the tone of the Riders games ups the ante with the comedy more than any other game did until Colors came on the scene. The Rogues were designed to live in a space where slapstick of verbal jokes reigned over the more neutral or serious tone that was the default at the time, which the other mainstay characters accommodate themselves to in many respects. Also, despite the fact that Eddy himself also lives in such a world, this doesn't inherently downplay just how much of a greedy, narcissistic, mean-spirited loser he is in comparison to the rest of the cast anyway. In fact, the series pretty much flanderizes these traits the longer it goes on, with his only consistently redeeming quality about himself being that he is funny in a show that is funny. The movie was basically a vehicle to rescue him from this.

 

As for the comedy writing itself, I mean honestly, has there been any Sonic game that is genuinely as funny as something from the likes of Warner Bros. and Disney? Seriously, not even Colors and Generations are as funny as some of these cartoons' absolute worst. If Jet's biggest sin is that he isn't comedy gold, I would wager that's less an issue with him and merely symptomatic of a series that has never been known to be genuinely and notably clever. And frankly, the only purpose in me mentioning them was to establish a point of comparison with other characters of similar archetypes.

[Tara]

Yes, the other main characters do slightly adjust their usual mannerisms to play into the more comedic atmosphere of the Riders games, but for the most part they remain the same.  At least, I don't notice a huge change in their personalities, so much as I notice a change in the situation that the writers put them in.  Also, Eddy may be a considerably more loathsome character, but his brand of humor still plays off a lot better with the other characters, whereas I'd argue Jet (while a vast improvement over the clunky dialogue that plagued just about every game before it) didn't really interact with any characters as well as Wave and Storm did.

 

And I suppose you'd be right in saying that it's not entirely Jet's fault for not being written super-well, but like you, I was simply using Warner Bros. and Disney cartoons as an example since they had already been thrown out there.  I wouldn't put Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy on the same pedestal as the classic Donald and Daffy cartoons, either, but I'd still say their humor works a lot better than Jet's.  My main point, though, is that when Jet isn't funny, he is really not funny.  At least Sonic and Tails' groan-inducing dialogue in Colors was a lot more stoic about it.  Jet sort of comes across as both not funny and a loudmouth to me.  But that's all a matter of personal opinion, really.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Would anyone like to see Shahra return? Personally, I hope not. Erazor and her were one time characters suited to the storybook they were in, but I don't see them doing well outside of that. Bringing her back would make me feel the same I did about Chip: it would take away the impact of Secret Rings' ending. Sonic touched her soul and became a trusted friend and savior of her, but they'll probably never see each other again.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I thought about mentioning that, but since I consider Shahra the same character "archetype" as Merlina, I can't say in good heart "I don't want the oddly specific Sonic elf-girl with pink hair to reappear".