Characters you don't want to return

[azoo]

To be fair, Shadow's initial personality in SA2 was moreso a mixture of "confused PTSD victim", "arrogant and smug badass", and "over-the-top drama queen". With his revival in Heroes, they kept the "arrogant and smug badass" part and mixed it with "whoami", and then replaced the former trait later with "angst and brooding seriousness" from Shadow's game and onward.

 

So Shadow doesn't even really act like he did in the beginning, which is something I'm surprised a lot of people haven't noticed yet. Its honestly why I can't take him seriously nor really like him that much anymore, because they kind of heavily bastardized him much like they did everyone else.

[VGamer]

Does every character in the series have to be all "YAY WHOO HAPPY HAPPY" for them to be "Sonic" characters? I don't think someone just up and gets over seeing their best friend get mercilessly killed, having themselves be sealed away for god knows how long, treated as a monster, and used as a tool for the destruction of all life on the planet.

 

I'm not trying to say that they have to be "ALRIGHT YEAH WOO" characters, I hate that stuff and it's partially why I didn't like the Colors writing (stupid and corny jokes galore). But as someone else pointed out, he smiled in SA2 right? In the ending of Team Dark's story in Heroes, he joked around with Rouge, right? I'm not at all saying he shouldn't be traumatized for what happened to him 50 years ago, but that was what SA2 was for. It's over.

Okay, let me put it this way. I thought Shadow was fine in Heroes and SA2 since he wasn't using the same expression 24/7. In  '06 however, the only time is mouth moves is when he talks. He shows NO emotions whatsoever, and '06 was supposed to be a reboot, so all that Maria stuff never happened. Better yet, in Generations, he's also not showing any emotions at all. I get that he's supposed to be isolated and likes being alone, but that's why I don't like him. It's just a preference. If they made him back to how he was in his first two games, I'd love that.

 

Start reading.

 

 

I didn't say there was no backstory, but it was never forced onto us in the games themselves at all except for that one scene in SA1, which really had nothing to do with the plot.

[Kuzu]

But those are mostly one-off moments that really don't leave a lasting impression, save maybe for the time where he rescues Rouge from the vault when Prison Island is set to explode and the time Amy somehow reminds him of Maria.  Even if that's not the case, I suppose it could be his presentation that just feels extremely one-note.  Everything about him was designed to convey the message that he's the darker, more serious archetype with very little in the way of subtlety.  This is, of course, most evident in ShTH, but even as far back as SA2, you could kind of say the same thing.

 

But whatever.  He's a fan favorite, so even though he has sort of been downplayed lately, I have no doubt that Sega will inevitably find someway to incorporate him later down the line.  I don't have a huge problem with his existence, I just don't think he needs to be mainstay character or anything like that.

 

The only time I'd say they really threw the whole "Darker & Edgier" angle was in his game, because he was nowhere near as dark in any other; In SA2, he's basically a more reserved Sonic, what with lines like "I'm the coolest" and "Lets' get the show on the road".

 

It really irks the hell out of me that people are going to keep tying Shadow to his game, and nothing else about the character. Its like SA2 doesn't exist anymore and everything about his backstory is just summed up as "ALIENS, ANGST, MARIA" and nothing else. I know he hasn't really been in a main game, but he's had plenty of spinoffs to shed off this perception, and people still persists on holding him to it. Its as annoying as when people tie Knuckles to being a dumbass.

 

I digress tho, fans never let a character live down a bad moment and Shadow is sadly no exception, so even if he does get a prominent role in the future, its still going to be met with some bit of opposition, which makes me believe he's just not going to show up for years.

I'm not trying to say that they have to be "ALRIGHT YEAH WOO" characters, I hate that stuff and it's partially why I didn't like the Colors writing (stupid and corny jokes galore). But as someone else pointed out, he smiled in SA2 right? In the ending of Team Dark's story in Heroes, he joked around with Rouge, right? I'm not at all saying he shouldn't be traumatized for what happened to him 50 years ago, but that was what SA2 was for. It's over.

Okay, let me put it this way. I thought Shadow was fine in Heroes and SA2 since he wasn't using the same expression 24/7. In  '06 however, the only time is mouth moves is when he talks. He shows NO emotions whatsoever, and '06 was supposed to be a reboot, so all that Maria stuff never happened. Better yet, in Generations, he's also not showing any emotions at all. I get that he's supposed to be isolated and likes being alone, but that's why I don't like him. It's just a preference. If they made him back to how he was in his first two games, I'd love that

 

EVERYONE is terrible in 06, in fact Shadow is probably least offensive thing about the game given the fact that he actually gets shit done instead of angsting about it. But even so, Shadow is hardly a terrible character in that game, granted he could have emoted more, but I still don't feel why that should be a criticism against the character when every other character was just emotionless.

 

For the most part, he does emote more nowadays; He's a complete dick in Free Riders for starters.

[Nepenthe]

Funny thing is, it's not like Shadow would need heavy personality tweaking to fit in with the new games (not that he never fit in under a lighthearted atmosphere), but that would require him, you know, actually coming back, which people don't want at all. It's quite the paradox.

[Silencer226]

Funny thing is, it's not like Shadow would need heavy personality tweaking to fit in with the new games (not that he never fit in under a lighthearted atmosphere), but that would require him, you know, actually coming back, which people don't want at all. It's quite the paradox.

I don't think I'll ever understand why people think the inclusion of Shadow is somehow tarnishing the quality of the series. I like him and feel like he presents a different atmosphere to the game, one that I am particularly fond of. Including him doesn't mean everything has to be all grim and dark... He's kind of like what Meta Knight is to Kirby I guess lol.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Noel

[Yoshi Toranaga]

Sorry for my stupid words, but I think Shadow isn't a bad character at all, though I can't say that he has a face in the last games. Thanks to Iizuka, Shadow is the stereotypized B-movie character now, though in SA2 its image was kinda good. He needs to be a playable character, I think, but it's not possible now 'cause SEGA came to the formula "main games=no additional characters", like Nintendo in their games such as Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy... etc.

If there will be the characters which are about to return, let them be Tails and Knuckles. No one else. And possibly Shadow, but in no game like Shadow the Hedgehog.

[Kuzu]

To be fair, Shadow's initial personality in SA2 was moreso a mixture of "confused PTSD victim", "arrogant and smug badass", and "over-the-top drama queen". With his revival in Heroes, they kept the "arrogant and smug badass" part and mixed it with "whoami", and then replaced the former trait later with "angst and brooding seriousness" from Shadow's game and onward.

 

So Shadow doesn't even really act like he did in the beginning, which is something I'm surprised a lot of people haven't noticed yet. Its honestly why I can't take him seriously nor really like him that much anymore, because they kind of heavily bastardized him much like they did everyone else.

 

 

Its really just a case of flanderization, ya know something that's easily fixable....but nobody wants to see him so he can be fixed. :\

[Lady Soniko]

Yeah I never took Shadow as a grim dark character, merely an uninformed character with a tragic past that he's put behind him, It's SEGA that are insistent on him becoming this dark, edgy guy to appeal to kids who are in the market for that sort of character.

 

Which sucks because I like Shadow too, but his current use in the games genuinely makes him a dislikeable character with how SEGA write him.

[Kuzu]

Yeah I never took Shadow as a grim dark character, merely an uninformed character with a tragic past that he's put behind him, It's SEGA that are insistent on him becoming this dark, edgy guy to appeal to kids who are in the market for that sort of character.

 

Which sucks because I like Shadow too, but his current use in the games genuinely makes him a dislikeable character with how SEGA write him.

 

.....What use? He hasn't been prominently featured in....forever.

[Silencer226]

.....What use? He hasn't been prominently featured in....forever.

I think that's her point lol.

[Kuzu]

How can a character be unlikable if they don't get any appearances to be as such :V

[Lady Soniko]

Free Riders? Generations? His dialogue and his new voice actor just make him become a huge douche, like honestly I couldn't stand him in Free Riders story he's such a fucking cock, I'm not exaggerating when I say the character's personalities have shifted with the coming of new VA's, I mean Drummond Humphrey Shadow was the mysterious, confused one, Griffith was the "I'M DARK AND HMPH" one, and now his newest Voice actor makes him an narcissistic idiot devoid of all emotion (at least in Free Riders case) and honestly if that's what he's become, then I'm glad SEGA aren't using him. Same goes for Knuckles becoming nothing but bad comic relief and effectively just becoming that "background guy" to use in cut scenes and shitty mini missions to make Sonic look good. Hell I might as well say I'm not fond of any of the new personalities in the characters, with the exception of maybe Rouge and Amy, but that's just me. 

Edited August 23, 2013 by Super Soniko

[Tara]

The only time I'd say they really threw the whole "Darker & Edgier" angle was in his game, because he was nowhere near as dark in any other; In SA2, he's basically a more reserved Sonic, what with lines like "I'm the coolest" and "Lets' get the show on the road".

The former line was sort of just something they threw in during the gameplay which may or may not be canonical.  Remembering, of course, the tone when you defeat him during that same sequence (alongside the visual of him laying face down on the ground) implies that you knocked him out shortly before the cutscene completely contradicts that.  So, basically, I wouldn't use gameplay dialogue as an example of his personality.

 

The latter, again, was a one-off line that had very little in the way of impression and seemed less a part of his personality and moreso a random burst of energy that came out of nowhere.  If I were to be honest, I thought that maybe it was Sonic's mannerisms rubbing off on him more than displaying his own personality traits.  In a way, that sort of makes it genius.  At first he's mistaken for Sonic, but as the game progresses, he slowly becomes like him!  Pretty cool... but probably not what they intended. =P

 

 

It really irks the hell out of me that people are going to keep tying Shadow to his game, and nothing else about the character. Its like SA2 doesn't exist anymore and everything about his backstory is just summed up as "ALIENS, ANGST, MARIA" and nothing else. I know he hasn't really been in a main game, but he's had plenty of spinoffs to shed off this perception, and people still persists on holding him to it. Its as annoying as when people tie Knuckles to being a dumbass.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but you do have to remember that the reason he's connected more to his own game is because that's most relevant thing about him at this point.  The same with Knuckles, really.  Sure, at one point he was a competent character, but the fact that he's no longer being utilized as such means that it hardly matters because both Sega and new fans are going to base their opinions and actions based on his current persona, not the one he occupied almost fifteen years ago.

 

That being said, I'd like to see Knuckles be seen in a more flattering light again, but I don't see that happening right now.

 

 

 

I digress tho, fans never let a character live down a bad moment and Shadow is sadly no exception, so even if he does get a prominent role in the future, its still going to be met with some bit of opposition, which makes me believe he's just not going to show up for years.

I think there's plenty of fans willing to forgive Shadow for his bad moment(s), so regardless of what the more vocal minority have to say on the matter, he'll probably find his way into prominence again.  If his appearances produce money, anyway.  That's something that's still up for debate.

 

Drummond Shadow

 

Drummond didn't voice Shadow...

Edited August 23, 2013 by Akito

[Kuzu]

Well I have disag

 

Free Riders? Generations? His dialogue and his new voice actor just make him become a huge douche, like honestly I couldn't stand him in Free Riders story he's such a fucking cock, I'm not exaggerating when I say the character's personalities have shifted with the coming of new VA's, I mean Drummond Shadow was the mysterious, confused one, Griffith was the "I'M DARK AND HMPH" one, and now his newest Voice actor makes him an narcissistic idiot devoid of all emotion (at least in Free Riders case) and honestly if that's what he's become, then I'm glad SEGA aren't using him. Same goes for Knuckles becoming nothing but bad comic relief and effectively just becoming that "background guy" to use in cut scenes and shitty mini missions to make Sonic look good. Hell I might as well say I'm not fond of any of the new personalities in the characters, with the exception of maybe Rouge and Amy, but that's just me. 

 

Well I respectfully disagree because I like Shadow being a jackass. The reason he was mysterious and Confused in SA2 was well...because he was, we knew nothing about the character, and since we know everything about the character naturally his character would progress.

 

And its not like he wasn't always a narcissistic douche; dude goes around calling himself the Ultimate life form, and actively puts down Sonic in each of their encounters, Shadow's always been a dick from the getgo.

[Lady Soniko]

Drummond didn't voice Shadow...

 

Fuck sake I meant David Humphrey, stupid Sonic.

And its not like he wasn't always a narcissistic douche; dude goes around calling himself the Ultimate life form, and actively puts down Sonic in each of their encounters, Shadow's always been a dick from the getgo.

 

Not to the extent that he is in Free Riders, he's so narcissistic that he's embarrassing and laughable, he's not the "cool Shadow of Sonic" any more, he's just some stupid eccentric jock who's just become as bad as Knuckles in the games, I always seen Shadow as the silent smart guy that thinks things through, guys always got a back up plan if his original ideas fall through, he's the ultimate life form yes, but Shadow is actually incredibly reserved and likes a challenge, he's exactly like Sonic in that regard. Hell I'd wager that Shadow's portrayal in Sonic Battle was how I expected him to be.

[Kuzu]

Not to the extent that he is in Free Riders, he's so narcissistic that he's embarrassing and laughable, he's not the "cool Shadow of Sonic" any more, he's just some stupid eccentric jock who's just become as bad as Knuckles in the games, I always seen Shadow as the silent smart guy that thinks things through, guys always got a back up plan if his original ideas fall through, he's the ultimate life form yes, but Shadow is actually incredibly reserved and likes a challenge, he's exactly like Sonic in that regard. Hell I'd wager that Shadow's portrayal in Sonic Battle was how I expected him to be.

 

Well honestly, that's kinda what I liked about it; he's actually fun to watch for a change instead of moping through everything. I'm not gonna say it was done particularly well, but I see it as a refreshing pace for the character. 

 

I'd like to see Shadow be his uber-cool badass self, but I also like it when they can poke fun at the characters too, I don't like it when characters are so straight laced and not capable of less than dignified moments.

 

But that's just me.

[Vertekins]

I'm more inclined to feel that voice direction too is a prominent factor in what's making Shadow and even Sonic come-off as having....questionable portrayals.

 

No disrespect to their voice actors. After all, I firmly believe that Roger could be one hell of a Sonic if he was actually given great material to work with and better direction because I believe that he has the best actual acting ability of any English VA but his Sonic voice is just missing something nd I believe it's down to writing and voice direction.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Also, I'm not talking about spinoff titles. I'm talking about games that have a plot that he has to do with (SA2, Heroes, Shadow, and '06).Generations didn't even show or have enough of him at all, he only had one line and was barely visible in the last scene, so how can you use that to prove your point?

And of those four titles, only 2 of them had anything to do with his past, while the other two didn't even bother. And the reason I included Generations was because he was in the game, as per you claim of "Every game he has been in, except for Heroes, had something to do with his past." I'm not gonna make an exception just because one has less of a story in it.

 

When did I ever say I want him to be 2 dimensional? All I'm saying is that he doesn't have to be focused on his boring backstory all the time in order to be interesting, or at the very least a likeable character. Do Sonic, Tails, Amy, or Eggman have any backstory? No. Yet they are the core characters of the franchise and probably the favorite ones too. They have personality, but we don't need to study these characters game after game after game, and learn almost EVERYTHING about their past life. You could argue that Knuckles and Blaze have backstory, but it was never focused on too much (aside from Chronicles I guess) so it never bothered me or anyone else for that matter. No questions were asked because it wasn't something that Sonic Team focused on for too long.

 

In saying that he should just be better off as a Rival and not go beyond that archetype, you are in essence saying that he'd be better off being 2 dimensional. Even Sonic has had a backstory considering that we witnessed it as we grew with him since Sonic 1 as per Generations' establishment, as did Tails (for the same reasons) and especially Eggman if his relation and admiration of his grandfather Gerald Robotnik are anything to go by, implying that, like Shadow, these characters have had a past history of their own. Amy is the most 2 dimensional character in comparison, and the most clichéd because her personality is essentially that of a fangirl who constantly stalks Sonic that many absolutely despise because that's all they ever seem to do with her in a lot of the games to varying degrees, from tolerable and multidimensional in the Adventure titles to rabid and 2 dimensional in games like Heroes or Battle.

 

Knuckles is the only character who can compare to Shadow as far as a backstory goes, because like Shadow, we delve deep into his whole race's history in SA1 alone (and further explored in Chronicles), of how they lived, and what happened to them. And like Shadow's backstory in SA2, Knuckles' backstory was the central focus of SA1. And we hardly know anything about Blaze's history, but damned if she doesn't have as much potential as Shadow and Knuckles to have a decent one.

 

And if you wanna talk about which characters are popular, I'm pretty sure Shadow can give them a run for their money even with his reputation.

 

 

No, they don't. Like I said above, look at the core characters. Sonic is just Sonic. Tails is just Tails. Did we ever get an unnecessary story about how Tails met Sonic? An in-depth story about Tails BEFORE he met Sonic? No. All we need is ONE game to establish his identity, and Sonic Adventure did that. Sure SA2 did that with Shadow, but I didn't like that. Big whoop. Then Heroes (in Dark's story) and SHtH focus on that, and it gets boring. We don't NEED all this to explain who Shadow is, we knew in SA2, that's it.

Yes, they do. Characters can't grow beyond their archetypes and become better characters if you don't let them do more. It has less to do with backstory and more to do with character development, but a ranting and raving about how Shadow has a backstory as if that alone is a detriment and praising characters just for being their archetypes that don't need to go beyond that is precisely my point of how you'd rather have 2 dimensional characters over 3 dimensional ones.

 

And for the record, very few people here like what they did with Shadow in games like ShTH, but it's ridiculous that people would rather these character be looked at for their archetypes and not how they could develop as characters whether or not it has something to do with their backstory.

Edited August 23, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Kuzu]

I'm more inclined to feel that voice direction too is a prominent factor in what's making Shadow and even Sonic come-off as having....questionable portrayals.

 

No disrespect to their voice actors. After all, I firmly believe that Roger could be one hell of a Sonic if he was actually given great material to work with and better direction because I believe that he has the best actual acting ability of any English VA but his Sonic voice is just missing something nd I believe it's down to writing and voice direction.

 

I really think its just a case of familiarity; people's preferred portrayals of the characters are tied to the voices they had at the time. You like Black Knight & Unleashed's portrayal of Sonic, so naturally you'd prefer Griffith while others generally like SA2's portrayal of Shadow, and associate David Humphrey's voice with him.

 

I can kind of understand that, and why nobody is really feeling the simplistic and comedic approach of the current games and prefer something a bit more meaningful and full of depth. 

 

I'm flexible enough to go along with anything as long as I find it good, so I guess I'm the exception. I'm sure the VA's will settle with time, nobody really liked Griffith when he first started and people were deeply sad when he was gone.

[Milo]

The only characters I'd seriously want to never return...like ever are the two "OCs" Shadow the Hedgehog Eggman Nega and Metal Sonic 3.0 as well as Princess Elise.

 

I also wouldn't miss G.U.N., the Chao, Cream, being put on an bus either, but not as much as I want the two OCs mentioned above gone. I agree with Crusher that GUN feels sorta out of place in Sonic's world. The Chao I used to like, but nowadays they seem to be the only reason why some gamers would refuse to by a Sonic game-because they don't have Chao Gardens unlike the Adventure games, hence the "SA3!one" cries. As for Cream....meh. I don't think she adds anything much in terms of either personality or gameplay. If anything, she actually took away Amy's "sweet/nice girl" character trait, leaving her as the psycho fangirl/Bitch in Sheep's Clothing that Battle and Sonic X made her to be in the mid-2000s.

 

This is gonna turn into a "I hate this character" topic isn't it.

 

It wasn't already?

 

....shit.

 

ITT: Opinions.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Yeow

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

As if this series is actually "original." I'm starting to think people don't even know what that word even means and just throw unoriginality as a blanket term for "anything I don't like" when just about anything done in the Sonic series has already been done before in others.

 

There is nothing new under the sun, including that very statement. Now creative, on the other hand...

Edited August 23, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[TailsTellsTales]

I am surprised so many people have problems with so many characters. Especially the major and regular characters. I can understand the minor characters. In my view the major characters in alphabetical order are Amy, Eggman Robotnik, Knuckles, Shadow, Sonic, and Tails. The regular would be Blaze, Charmy, Cream, Espio, Marine*, Rouge, Silver, Tails Doll*, and Vector. The others can be assumed to be minor characters. There should be no talk of the major characters to go away. Unless you dislike/hate them or you got major beef with one of them than go ahead and hate. And Amy needs Cream being her Tails. Silver deserves to not be judged by Sonic06 and it is not his fault he first appear in that game at.

*Characters that I want to be regular.

[Tara]

I don't mean to start another Silver debate, because we all know how that will turn out, but I simply can't understand the merits of the "you shouldn't judge a character by his first appearance" reasoning.

 

First, a character's debut appearance says a lot about one's character.  There is nothing better to judge a character by than the very first time they appear, because their first appearance details everything you need to know about him:  His goals, his ambitions, his core personality traits, his strengths, his weaknesses, and so much more.  Putting it this way, I'd almost be willing to say judging a character by their LATER appearances is deplorable because you have less context than if you've been following since the beginning, but I know that's a huge fallacy.  An annoying character is still an annoying character, and understanding his origins and motivations is most likely not going to change that, especially with a series that boasts of such a loose continuity as Sonic.

 

Second, the whole "everybody was terrible in '06" is a terrible argument when you're referring to a character who makes their debut appearance in that game.  For starters, as with every new character, you can never predict if he's going to even make another appearance.  Before Rush Adventure, I was convinced Blaze was just going to be a one-off and then be forgotten like countless others.  Sure enough, her reception was so positive (that, or Sega just found more to do with her) that she became a relatively consistent character.  The same can not be said for Silver.  The few outings he's had (from what I gather) have been so unfavorable that there's no logical reasoning to bring him back.  That being said, it's more than rational to judge from his first appearance, because at the time, there was no way to know if we'd even see him again.  The other characters, however, have already had a chance to prove their worth to the series.  In their debut game, I might add.  Granted, many of the characters have an unfair advantage because they debuted before story and context was ever important to a game, but that hasn't stopped characters like Shadow and Blaze from remaining popular.

 

By contrast, Marine the Raccoon appeared in (what is generally believed to be) a good game... but only a few people seem to like her.  The game may have been good, but many would say she's not.  I'd personally disagree, but not because it was her first (and as far as I'm aware only) appearance.  I played SRA and concluded from that point on that she was a cute and enjoyable character.  Most everyone else, however, played the same game and concluded that she was a nuisance.  I'm not going to ask anyone to give her another chance.  She had her chance and she blew it.

 

As another example, the Chaotix reappeared in a game that has pretty mixed fan reception (with a slightly higher ratio of bad to good), but they've nevertheless become very popular.  I'm personally apathetic to them, but apparently, their appeal was widespread enough to warrant their return for several games onward.  That is, bearing in mind, that the only other game we had to judge them by beforehand was Knuckles Chaotix, but they were entirely different specimens back then, their appearances and personalities completely overhauled to suit Sonic Heroes.  It didn't take multiple games for people to enjoy their presence.  It took their one appearance.

 

Again, I'm not referring specifically to Silver when I say this.  I just think the "you can't judge him by his first appearance" is a terrible argument and I can't help but roll my eyes when I see it tossed around every time someone dares criticize Silver or any other character that has remained largely untouched since their inception.

[Your Vest Friend]

The thing to remember about Silver is that he IS, in fact, a fairly popular character. He just simultaneously has a large number of people who dislike him a lot. So pretty much any arguments about his circumstances are going to be two-toned, pretty much. 

 

Of course, that doesn't define what anyone personally thinks should be done with him. 

[Kuzu]

Silver now is basically what Shadow was 8 years ago, a base breaker. There are just as many people who want him back as there people who never want to see him again.

What should be done with is basically in Sega's court.