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castell-neath

I'm sorry but I hate SA2

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I think a lot of that has to do with SA2 still having its followers, plus that people like to vocalize their criticisms on games that are praised too much.

For example, everyone knows Sonic 06 is bad, so it isn't talked about as much, but SA2 is still treated as one of the best things ever, so people like to justify their criticisms more by talking about its flaws more.

 

Eh, I don't think that's true. A few years ago I would agree with you, but not today. I've only come across a few people who genuinely like the game these days.

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but I realsed today that I even (whisper this) prefer Sonic 06 over this, for all its faluts, load time and kiss scene and all. 

 

You'd prefer Sonic '06 to this game? Okay... I mean, it's your opinion and all, but I'd much rather be raising Hero Chao and playing City Escape 'till my thumbs grow callus than playing the ball puzzle with Silver until I commit suicide.

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Why is everyone jumping on this bandwagon for? So it has a few flaws about it. Every game does but to say that you like Sonic 06 better is just a travesty. Yes, SA2 has some shitty levels(Tails/Eggman,Knuckles/Rouge) but the Sonic and Shadow levels were great. The Chao were optional and you didn't have to do any of it if you didn't want to. If you don't like it then don't raise Chao. Simple as that. You have to remember that this game came out In 2001 and obviously we all know when Sonic 06 came out. The voice acting is better then Sonic 06. Sonic 06 had the worst voice acting ever. As for the RnB Rap that is  Knuckle's Theme is just a music preference. If  you like SA2 or hate it is your own opinion but as for me, I believe that SA2 is the best Sonic game. This is a battle of who likes what and why so making a topic just so you can say that you hate a game is a waste of time.

Edited by Shad0wsandReflecti0ns

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. The Chao were optional and you didn't have to do any of it if you didn't want to. If you don't like it then don't raise Chao. Simple as that.

Unless you wanted Green Hill Zone, then you were forced to not only care for them but enter them in competitions that took forever to meet the minimum requirements for.

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You'd prefer Sonic '06 to this game? Okay... I mean, it's your opinion and all, but I'd much rather be raising Hero Chao and playing City Escape 'till my thumbs grow callus than playing the ball puzzle with Silver until I commit suicide.

 

I think my hatred for SA2 and my begruging acceptance of S06 comes down to 2 main factors really.

 

1 - I did not invest in a Ps3 until 2009 after living abroad for a few years. By that time i knew that Sonic 06 was going to be a buggy, long loading pile of crap and was actually quite surprised by it. Wave Ocean is probably up there in my all time favortie opening zones for scenery, music and "accustomisation" to a game. I had low expectations of it and it surprised me.

 

2 - The opposite is true for SA2. i did not manage to play this until the recent PSN re-relase having never owned a gamecube or dreamcast (I had a ps1/ps2). Prehaps the hype built it up for me more than it should have. I "jumped" from My old Mega Drive/Mega CD to SA1DX on the PC and then to heroes on the PS2 and heard lots of good things about it. and then.....well I felt it was like a damp squib. Mostly due to the lack of Sonic stages. Then I noticed the weak story, the change of tone (with GUN especially!) and the "rocky" tone of it and felt "nah" this is not Sonic to me. At least 06 had shadow stages, and silver's were ok too i thought. On top of that, I have yet to master the bloody boarding part on city escape, due to contol and camera issues and not through lack of trying - it just puts me off. In contrast, the same Scene in Generations I love - for the same reasons - easy to control, easy to drift, make big jumps. I know this is only one part but I hope I'm sort of making sense.

 

SA2 shoehorned in too many different playing elements for my taste really. in S3&K Knuckles' style was different but similar enough - the same in 06 with Shadow and Silver. SA2 is, too me, 1/3 of a "True" Sonic game with too much "filler material" in it.

Edited by castell-neath

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Yeah, we're just gonna have to disagree on that part. I see Sonic as the same guy I always knew him as, only with him and his world more developed than it ever was in the past while still having a lot of room for mystery, not a pretender. It's the same case with Batman in the Justice League crossover, with him being hyperaware, hyperprepared, still human limitations and capable of follies, and one who is hardly likely to break his no killing code while facing different threats from his ally's rogue galleries - in fact, these very traits that we've known him for in his own self-contained setting are still put to the test outside of that setting in one episode to the point where that episode and those character traits of his being used as a springboard for an entire season later on.

 

It's not a pretender. Really, I'm not saying every character becomes a fake when deprived of his universe - but a character is more than his traits. I may not even be using the right word when I say "character", but please bear with me. What is comprehended as a character here is all the values you can attach and transform within an icon. These values depend on the world.

 

So, if a character's traits are used and problematized as a springboard for an entire season, you are probably readequating the universe to him. I mean, Batman's dark past is just that if there isn't anything to bring this out. Thing is, Batman is less of "hyperaware" if there isn't anyone arund him to be seen as "kinda reckless", enemy or not. Joker does that in his solo adventures, but Flash can do that in Justice League.

 

But so you say Zelda isn't a good example. It's true Zelda's position is constantly different, but Link's is, I think, much more concise. If you had to repel the moon yourself in Majora's Mask instead of killing, well, Majora, wouldn't the gameplay have to be rearranged to meet that, thus changing completely what we felt with the game? The game design principles in each Zelda are basically the same and that helps keeping the universe intact even when you are not in Hyrule. Even if the elements are completely different, the way you interact with them is the same.

Edited by Palas

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SA2 shoehorned in too many different playing elements for my taste really. in S3&K Knuckles' style was different but similar enough - the same in 06 with Shadow and Silver. SA2 is, too me, 1/3 of a "True" Sonic game with too much "filler material" in it.

 

I seriously hope you're not trying to say that you think Sonic '06 was a better Sonic game than Sonic Adventure 2.

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It's not a pretender. Really, I'm not saying every character becomes a fake when deprived of his universe - but a character is more than his traits. I may not even be using the right word when I say "character", but please bear with me. What is comprehended as a character here is all the values you can attach and transform within an icon. These values depend on the world.

 

So, if a character's traits are used and problematized as a springboard for an entire season, you are probably readequating the universe to him. I mean, Batman's dark past is just that if there isn't anything to bring this out. Thing is, Batman is less of "hyperaware" if there isn't anyone arund him to be seen as "kinda reckless", enemy or not. Joker does that in his solo adventures, but Flash can do that in Justice League.

 

But so you say Zelda isn't a good example. It's true Zelda's position is constantly different, but Link's is, I think, much more concise. If you had to repel the moon yourself in Majora's Mask instead of killing, well, Majora, wouldn't the gameplay have to be rearranged to meet that, thus changing completely what we felt with the game? The game design principles in each Zelda are basically the same and that helps keeping the universe intact even when you are not in Hyrule. Even if the elements are completely different, the way you interact with them is the same.

(it took me a while to connect what you were saying :lol:)

 

Yet, because the elements are different, everything else feels different even though you interact with them the same. It's like comparing a car to a motorcycle you can drive on the road: yes they are both ground vehicles which going to fast in can be dangerous if you lose control, but a motorcycle is lighter, can reach speeds faster, can do stunts far easier than the heavier car, and is much more dangerous if you fly off of it. 

 

This is the case even in Zelda games when playing as Link, as aside from a few staple items, he also has more unique items from each setting such as the Masks in Majora's Mask that are completely non-existent in games like Twilight Princess, which has Wolf Link and his abilities that allow you to track scents and even talk to animals (while scaring away most humans). So they equally offer a different way of interaction as well despite the way you do so.

 

It's a bit of a similar case with Sonic, although he takes far greater leaps of differences which might make it appear far and between. You're still smashing robots, but not all the robots have animals in them; you're still stopping Eggman's schemes, but each scheme is different from the last; you still travel places, but there are many places that populate the world that we visit each title.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonîc

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I seriously hope you're not trying to say that you think Sonic '06 was a better Sonic game than Sonic Adventure 2.

 

Not really, it has way too many faults. I'd put both of them at about the same in MY opinion (people will disagre i know) although in terms of gameplay i prefer it. Which means, i think i do actually. SHOCK HORROR!! lol

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(it took me a while to connect what you were saying laugh.png)

 

Yet, because the elements are different, everything else feels different even though you interact with them the same. It's like comparing a car to a motorcycle you can drive on the road: yes they are both ground vehicles which going to fast in can be dangerous if you lose control, but a motorcycle is lighter, can reach speeds faster, can do stunts far easier than the heavier car, and is much more dangerous if you fly off of it. 

 

This is the case even in Zelda games when playing as Link, as aside from a few staple items, he also has more unique items from each setting such as the Masks in Majora's Mask that are completely non-existent in games like Twilight Princess, which has Wolf Link and his abilities that allow you to track scents and even talk to animals (while scaring away most humans). So they equally offer a different way of interaction as well despite the way you do so.

 

It's a bit of a similar case with Sonic, although he takes far greater leaps of differences which might make it appear far and between. You're still smashing robots, but not all the robots have animals in them; you're still stopping Eggman's schemes, but each scheme is different from the last; you still travel places, but there are many places that populate the world that we visit each title.

 

The case with Sonic is what would happen if Zelda became a Navi-like companion and you fought Ganondorf using the Triforce as a boomerang. 

 

...But I need to elaborate. I'm starting to get confused with my own points. Sonic R, to me, keeps the classic universe much more intact than Sonic Advance and Sonic Battle keeps the Sonic Adventure universe more than Sonic Adventure 2. So I don't really know what I'm on about. For now I'll just have to disagree with you and keep it at that. Maybe i'll send you a PM about this someday.

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I hate the person who started this topic and anyone who agrees


I think my hatred for SA2 and my begruging acceptance of S06 comes down to 2 main factors really.

 

1 - I did not invest in a Ps3 until 2009 after living abroad for a few years. By that time i knew that Sonic 06 was going to be a buggy, long loading pile of crap and was actually quite surprised by it. Wave Ocean is probably up there in my all time favortie opening zones for scenery, music and "accustomisation" to a game. I had low expectations of it and it surprised me.

 

2 - The opposite is true for SA2. i did not manage to play this until the recent PSN re-relase having never owned a gamecube or dreamcast (I had a ps1/ps2). Prehaps the hype built it up for me more than it should have. I "jumped" from My old Mega Drive/Mega CD to SA1DX on the PC and then to heroes on the PS2 and heard lots of good things about it. and then.....well I felt it was like a damp squib. Mostly due to the lack of Sonic stages. Then I noticed the weak story, the change of tone (with GUN especially!) and the "rocky" tone of it and felt "nah" this is not Sonic to me. At least 06 had shadow stages, and silver's were ok too i thought. On top of that, I have yet to master the bloody boarding part on city escape, due to contol and camera issues and not through lack of trying - it just puts me off. In contrast, the same Scene in Generations I love - for the same reasons - easy to control, easy to drift, make big jumps. I know this is only one part but I hope I'm sort of making sense.

 

SA2 shoehorned in too many different playing elements for my taste really. in S3&K Knuckles' style was different but similar enough - the same in 06 with Shadow and Silver. SA2 is, too me, 1/3 of a "True" Sonic game with too much "filler material" in it.

 

Now i know your crazy you'd rather play that thing they call a game (which would have been a good game if only they didn't rush it) instead of SA2 now i know your crazy

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I don't hate it or even dislike it, but it's very over-rated. The game tries too hard to have a darker story, but instead has too many plot holes.

 

The gameplay itself is...it's... I don't even know! The Sonic and Shadow stages are OK, but not as good as Sonic or Tails in Adventure. 

Tails' and Eggman's stages are just an annoyance. I guess it can kinda be OK with Eggman, but if Tails is included, I want him to play like Tails. Hell, the game even has the possibility of playing Tails outside of his mech, and he controls like a blast! Knuckles and Rouge are... not awful but not very good at all. I loved playing as Knuckles in Adventure, but in Adventure 2, no thanks. The levels are way way WAY TOO BIG, my least favorites being Death Chamber, Aquatic Mine and Mad Space. The radar for Knux/Rouge has been punched in the face. WHY DOES IT ONLY SHOW ONE FUCKING EMERALD SHARD/KEY AT A TIME?! This especially doesn't help when the levels are so damn huge.

 

The music is good. Not gonna say more about that.

 

Overall, it's the most over-rated Sonic game BY FAR, and I would much rather play Adventure, Colo(u)rs, Unleashed or even Heroes! It's not bad, but not great.

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I think the game would have been much better if it was just Sonic, Eggman, and Knuckles.  Eggman's stages were much more fun than Tails' stages which were much more tedious and had worse level design. Rouge's stages are (arguablely) worse than Knuckles. While treasure hunting in general was suckish, at least Knuckles' stages didn't have stupid gimmicks like every single one of Rouge's stages.(The Guard Beetle in the inner pyramid stage who's name I can't remember, the time limit and safes in Security Hall, and the Planetoids in Mad Space) Lastly, and the time spent developing the graphics, music, and design for these stages could have been used to make the Sonic, Eggman, and Knuckles stages more enjoyable or to iron out more bugs.

 

EDIT: Oh it seems like I bumped this thread. Sorry.

Edited by Mr. 0

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Man....I tried playing SA2 again the other day, and didn't even want to play again after Aquatic Mine. It felt like the Speed stages were more of a lackluster reward for getting through the tedium that is the other 2 thirds of the gameplay. The Treasure Hunting is nerfed and annoying as all fuck when trying to get A ranks in levels that big. The Shooting Stages are frustrating and clunky in both level design and controls and suffer from this game's strange tendency to stake every move you have on 2 buttons. (Although I did enjoy Eggman's stages to a slight degree.)

The Treasure Hunting stages also had the only soundtracks music that weren't just Jun and his Guitar. But like you said, still not as good as SA1's soundtrack. I really do like some moments of SA2 and always try to enjoy it as a whole when going back to it, but moments don't make up for the rest of the game being a chore and I just keep on find more reasons that I dislike it every time.

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After playing SA2 a month ago for the first time, I think it's a pretty decent game. The Speed Stages were a blast to play through (but I freaking hate the Hard version of Final Chase, I died so many times in that level). Mech-shooting stages were pretty good and the Treasure-hunting stages were pretty good (but Mad Space was a bitch). The story was pretty good and the voice acting was quite nice. I had an overall nice experience with this game, but it does have its flaws. I would give it a 7.8.

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Man this game, what the hell is this game. Poor story poorly told, poor levels, but the most defining trait to me is how they went out of their way to make it worse to play in a lot of little ways. Mapping everything to one button for most characters, putting the somersault on the speed characters to be used twice the whole game, giving the shooters that weird stopping animation, and just treasure hunting.

And then there's that time tails needs to track down the president's limo to trace a signal that Eggman was just broadcasting globally.

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And then there's that time tails needs to track down the president's limo to trace a signal that Eggman was just broadcasting globally.

 

......... That was a personal conversation to the president sending him the ultimatum, not the original global broadcast during the attack.

 

Regardless, I'm with T-Man; where exactly is this swarm of defenders for SA2?

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......... That was a personal conversation to the president sending him the ultimatum, not the original global broadcast during the attack.

 

Regardless, I'm with T-Man; where exactly is this swarm of defenders for SA2?

Take a good look at some Youtube comments and the Sega forums.

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There's Sonic 06 defenders, so this only raises the question: how many of them are there in relationship to the amount of people who have concluded that this game was never good to begin with? Perhaps I submerse myself way too much in SSMB for my outlook on things, but I'm not under the impression that this game has simultaneously aged awfully and that most of the world has somehow remained completely oblivious to that fact.

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Take a good look at some Youtube comments and the Sega forums.

Far as I'm aware, most of the SEGA forums hates SA2 just as much - if not more - than the majority of SSMB does, and people who still like SA2 are stereotyped as "lolnostalgiafanboys"

 

Youtube comments are...well, Youtube comments.

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