I'm sorry but I hate SA2

[-Metal Sonic-]

Don't worry. 

 

Me, along with a lot of other people dislike Sonic Adventure 2. Many people have seemed to stop liking SA2 recently. I don't know why, though. 

 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yet they still call it overrated...

[Jet Prower]

I've just always been so surprised that the opinion of this game has changed so much over time when mine has pretty much stayed the same.

[MegaMan_EXE]

You know, I don't really like Adventure 2 that much either. I remember back in 2010, when I heard that this game was so awesome, I was dying to play it. After beating it years ago, I was severely let down, and for a while, hated it. Playing the game on the PS3 has made me like the game more, but I'm still not seeing how this game is so highly regarded, with fans of this game being batshit insane. My main issues with this game are:
1. Having a realistic setting: I'm aware that Sonic Adventure was placed in the human world as well, but the plot never focused on them for even a short period of time. In this game, we focus on the president, we have the whole "revenge on humans" subplot, and it doesn't mesh well for a Sonic story. I'm not saying a Sonic story can't be taken seriously, the Archie series and Sonic Unleashed handled that department well, but it's when you focus on the humans too much, and have murder and death to all humans is where things go wrong.

2. The Hard Mode Mech stages: I. HATE. THESE. MISSIONS. I don't mind Eggman's or Tails's that much, although I do think Tails's stages are a bit poorly designed, but Hard Mode... wow. They really went out of their way to anger anyone who tries to play these. There are so many gotcha moments from shit like the Artificial Chaos, that they end up driving me insane, with some of the platforming also being a bit dickish from time to time.

3. Treasure hunting: 'Nuff said.

4. The story: Again, I don't mind that they went with a more serious story, but they went about it the wrong way, with the whole destruction of humans shit. Not to mention, there are several plot holes.

 

These problems ruined the game for me, but I wouldn't say Adventure 2 is the worst game ever. I do love the Sonic/Shadow stages, the kick ass OST, and the game has a lot to do when you're finished. But, personally, I don't see this as one of the best in the series, or as a great game. It's average to me, and nothing more. 

[E-122-Psi]

4. The story: Again, I don't mind that they went with a more serious story, but they went about it the wrong way, with the whole destruction of humans shit. Not to mention, there are several plot holes.

 

These problems ruined the game for me, but I wouldn't say Adventure 2 is the worst game ever. I do love the Sonic/Shadow stages, the kick ass OST, and the game has a lot to do when you're finished. But, personally, I don't see this as one of the best in the series, or as a great game. It's average to me, and nothing more. 

I have to agree with that. The darker story wasn't horrible per se, but it wasn't really developed in a way that worked with the franchise at all, in fact the only thing that really connected it were two periphery characters being members of the villain's family and Shadow being a clone of the main character (elements that were kinda superfluous in terms of being Sonic mythos directly and worked as much with any other franchise) otherwise it felt more at home in a sci fi horror. SA1 was darker, but it worked because it was moderated and it connected largely to the mythos of the original games (eg. E-102 being a badnik deconstruction, Knuckles' echidna backstory developed more). Too many other stories and medias try to make Sonic into something it isn't, with crap like politics or anime monsters.

Edited November 10, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Jet Prower]

Darker stories can actually be a lot better stories than the more happy stories when developed right though. Several people have mentioned the humans being in the spot light too much. While I agree that I don't care about the humans, people on here have shown me that we don't need to totally ignore the humans as well of course. They can be an important part of the series, but they shouldn't be a main focus usually compared to the Mobian animals in the world.

 

I do agree that Sonic is a bit of a scifi series though at times. Sonic Underground cartoon was even on the Scifi channel long ago for quite awhile to give an example. The story, while I still think is ok, yeah, I don't think it compares to SA1's, which is a bit more Scifi related while SA2's is a bit more realistic terrorist related in exchange. I still liked it, but that's just me being so positive about things how I am, but I do think SA1's is the better of the two stories.

[E-122-Psi]

That's the problem though, SA1 had some serious plot points concerning warfare and artificial intelligence but they placed in rather well within the Sonic mythos without getting too grim.

 

SA2 had very blatant references to dark cases of government conspiracy and mass genocide, and they weren't edited at all, to the point you could place most of the backstory into any other anime and it wouldn't look out of place. There is little Sonic-y about it except for Shadow's cosmetics. That's why I don't like some medias such as Archie's darker elements, they try to be dark by turning the whole backdrop into something completely alien to the franchise, to the point Sonic vs Eggman is practically a side show for the whole ordeal. Same for Sonic X's Meterax arc with gallactic wars or STC's just plain random pick of dark action archetypes (Satam handled things a bit better but even then it seemed like if the show had kept going the 'Sally vs Naugus' scenario would have taken over, with issues of royalty and magic sorcerers being more prominent, and Sonic and Robotnik coming off more as comic relief sidekicks).

 

I don't mind humans in moderation, but I think the key problem was SA's execution was photo realistic humans and cities, with Sonic and co just sort of pink elephants in the mix of it all (to the point Sonic X pretty much lampshaded how alien they looked in this backdrop). Unleashed's humans were cartoony and whimsical just like Sonic so didn't look quite as out of place, even if the lack of any other anthros still seemed rather odd.

Edited November 11, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

OK, this misconstruction is ridiculous.

Dude, dark as SA2 was it was not that grim. Nevermind that the genocide was blatant in SA1 after the echidnas killed chao on-screen and Chaos wiped them out so badly that Knux is the last of his generation. Nevermind Chaos flat out flooding the city.

The only things comparable to that in SA2 would be blowing up Prison Island and a throwaway line of Gerald's diary detailing GUN killing everyone on ARK (and that's suppose to beblatant genocide compared to the above?) whereas the Eclipse cannon is shot at the moon and killing no one and the ARK being stopped from killing everyone in the nick of time.

It's one thing to be critical, but you guys often give SA1 too many passes despite it going further with an inferred body count than SA2. If you're gonna criticize something, do it accurately. For a serious plot point, you barely had much mention of warfare than a throwaway line in SA1, artificial intelligence was hardly comparable to any other case in fiction, and you could very well replace it with any other anime and it wouldn't look out of place either.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[E-122-Psi]

I think it's a matter of context and execution. For SA1 I actually still unconvinced as to whether the Chao were killed or just knocked out it was that unclear (hey, you can attack them senseless in the Garden), and in the end they're attacked by an angry monster. It was a standard fairy tale of some isolated greedy folk getting their comeuppance from a surreal being (even if more on the lines of a early Grimm one than the usual Disney type), and had a prominent Sonic backdrop.

 

SA2 was a semi realistic setting and concerned a corrupt government brutally GUNNING DOWN an entire colony of innocent people and successfully covering it up with no consequences. That's creepy paranoia fuel and telling the story in your head, especially through the mind of an insane and depressed Gerald as he's chained up and awaiting execution as part of the cover up, is out and out morbid. You could take it out of Sonic's world and into an horror sci fi or anime and little would be lost.

 

SA1 was dark, but it was Sonic being dark. SA2 was trying to turn Sonic into an adult fantasy thriller, with the cute anthros almost mere onlookers to the true horrors that pivoted the plot. It was moderated to some degree, but still it did feel a step too far and making the series something it wasn't.

Edited November 11, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Tara]

 

OK, this misconstruction is ridiculous.

Dude, dark as SA2 was it was not that grim. Nevermind that the genocide was blatant in SA1 after the echidnas killed chao on-screen and Chaos wiped them out so badly that Knux is the last of his generation. Nevermind Chaos flat out flooding the city.

The only things comparable to that in SA2 would be blowing up Prison Island and a throwaway line of Gerald's diary detailing GUN killing everyone on ARK (and that's suppose to beblatant genocide compared to the above?) whereas the Eclipse cannon is shot at the moon and killing no one and the ARK being stopped from killing everyone in the nick of time.

It's one thing to be critical, but you guys often give SA1 too many passes despite it going further with an inferred body count than SA2. If you're gonna criticize something, do it accurately. For a serious plot point, you barely had much mention of warfare than a throwaway line in SA1, artificial intelligence was hardly comparable to any other case in fiction, and you could very well replace it with any other anime and it wouldn't look out of place either.

 

The main thing about SA1 vs. SA2 in terms of darkness I think boils down to two things:

 

1) The tone was much more... serious?  Maybe?  No?  Something.  It wasn't the same tone as SA1, for better or for worse, so even if there was more death, it wasn't treated with nearly the same impact as Maria's death.

 

2) How personal the deaths were in the games.  Maria was someone very close to one of the central characters, and of course, we even have a rather heart-wrenching scene where Gerald goes into great detail about his anguish and descent into madness over the loss.  I don't think anyone's death in SA1 is so much as mourned, whereas in SA2 we have a bittersweet ending scene dedicated to doing just that.

 

So, SA1 had a great deal of, perhaps even more, violent and destructive scenes, but it was still a huge leap in terms of darkness.  Though, I do agree with you that it's not nearly as grim as some people are letting on, nor is the grimness nearly as contrived as some of the games that would come after it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think it's a matter of context and execution. For SA1 I actually still unconvinced as to whether the Chao were killed or just knocked out it was that unclear, and in the end they're attacked by an angry monster. It was a standard fairy tale of some isolated greedy folk getting their comeuppance from a surreal being, and had a prominent Sonic backdrop.

That comeuppance being genocide? How many fairy tales does that consequence show up?
 

 

SA2 was a semi realistic setting and concerned a corrupt government brutally GUNNING DOWN an entire colony of innocent people and successfully covering it up with no consequences. That's creepy paranoia fuel and telling the story in your head, especially through the mind of an insane and depressed Gerald as he's chained up and awaiting execution as part of the cover up, is out and out morbid. You could take it out of Sonic's world and into an horror sci fi or anime and little would be lost.

We actually saw people get BRUTALLY gunned down, or did we just hear about it? You wanna talk about context and execution, let's start with the difference between seeing and hearing about that scene you're hyperboling, how all we got are mentionings of it instead of actual visuals. That's no different to a lot of stuff they pull in freaking Disney movies far more heavy handed than that.
 

 

SA1 was dark, but it was Sonic being dark. SA2 was trying to turn Sonic into an adult fantasy thriller, with the cute anthros almost mere onlookers to the true horrors that pivoted the plot. It was moderated to some degree, but still it did feel a step too far and making the series something it wasn't.

That's subjective as it is. Seems no different to the transition in tone from Kung Fu Panda 1 to its darker and edgier 2, and it got away with a lot more such as an on screen DEATH.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic