Over APPRECIATED sonic games

[Soniman]

 There was little to no 3D platforming in this game, as you could really call it 90% 2D and 10% 3D and it would be fairly accurate. And on that topic, it seems that many people forgot the game that gave us the formula in the first place:

 

 

Colours just expanded on the house this game built.

 

 

 

Or 70-30, the actual ratio. And yes Sonic Colors expanded on Unleashed.....so what? I should appreciate Unleashed more because it gave Colors a reason to exist despite the fact that it does a million things wrong yet people praise it to high heaven?

 

And this my segway into Sonic Unleashed. I just....don't like it? The level design for Sonic is memorization filed with an ass load of QTEs that aren't fun, half of the game is a boring repetitive beat em up that no one asked for and is padding at it's worst, speaking of padding excellent job with those moon and sun medals, why not make the game longer by having players backtrack to previous levels. I REALLY dislike the face that this game is heralded as "Sonic Team isn't playing it safe, they made the game THEY wanted to make with this game, no other Sonic game after this matches this one in scale", like it's the measuring stick all future Sonic games have to measured by, I disagree with that notion because it doesn't deserve to be the measuring stick. The story is standard fair with nothing terribly notable about it, Sonic is boring save for the opening, Chip is annoying save for being made into a god out of nowhere, Eggman is good until the woefully predictable GoTW betrayal, there's just nothing for me here. Graphics are good, music is good, artstyle is good, everything else is bleh. 

 

If Colors is the "C Student", Unleashed is the "D Student", someone who did most things he set out to do wrong but scrapped by just enough to pass and that passing grade is seen as a hallmark due to said student regularly getting failing grades in the past.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Soniman

[Vertekins]

 

Colours just expanded on the house this game built.

 

I'm more of the mind that Colours took cues without doing anything particularly good with them whilst utterly forsaking others. It's like cutting up a chicken, tossing out the breast, legs and good quality meat (Unleashed's scope and desire to push the boat out and the overall care invested in it) then throwing the insubstantial bits into a blender and turning them into McNuggets and then finding out you forgot the seasoning (Colours).

 

I consider HD Unleashed to be the C student who, whilst is pulled over the coals for it's ineptitudes and downmarked for them, nevertheless is given citations of praise for honest to god effort.

[Nepenthe]

I love how my metaphor's become a bit of a running thing. But granted, it's been a bit twisted. The student is the franchise, and the grades are the games. We can look at single grades for what they are, or we can measure several of them- even between different students- to make comparisons or determine a trajectory of improvement.

 

A failing student improving is always a thing to be commended. But the commendable action is just the mere act of improvement and not necessarily the end result, especially if the end result is a C. Colors is certainly an improvement on things the franchise did beforehand, but I hold apathy for the product without that context, especially when fellow students Rayman and Donkey Kong are blasting through the class with high marks.

 

Ultimately, when C-level work is coddled as A-level work on par with the material Rayman and Donkey Kong are creating, it then seems easier to make the case that the work itself is being over-appreciated, especially in comparison to the D-level work that student did beforehand, a work that on average gets far less defense from most other people since the errors are more egregious.

[Kuzu]

Since we're using grade metaphors; Unleashed is the D student, but worked damn hard to get that grade.

While Colors is the C student who just kinda coasted by without trying and mostly gets praise because he did better than the D student.

[Soniman]

Since we're using grade metaphors; Unleashed is the D student, but worked damn hard to get that grade.

While Colors is the C student who just kinda coasted by without trying and mostly gets praise because he did better than the D student.

 

So explain to me how Colors "didn't try", when Unleashed literally had half a game based around what was popular at the time (GoW and QTEs) and not try to make a more Sonic focused experience like it's successors?

 

I don't like this general acceptance that people only like Colors because it wasn't shit and not due to the fact that it was a genuinely good game and a good experience.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Soniman

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

Or 70-30, the actual ratio. And yes Sonic Colors expanded on Unleashed.....so what? I should appreciate Unleashed more because it gave Colors a reason to exist despite the fact that it does a million things wrong yet people praise it to high heaven?

 

And this my segway into Sonic Unleashed. I just....don't like it? The level design for Sonic is memorization filed with an ass load of QTEs that aren't fun, half of the game is a boring repetitive beat em up that no one asked for and is padding at it's worst, speaking of padding excellent job with those moon and sun medals, why not make the game longer by having players backtrack to previous levels. I REALLY dislike the face that this game is heralded as "Sonic Team isn't playing it safe, they made the game THEY wanted to make with this game, no other Sonic game after this matches this one in scale", like it's the measuring stick all future Sonic games have to measured by, I disagree with that notion because it doesn't deserve to be the measuring stick. The story is standard fair with nothing terribly notable about it, Sonic is boring save for the opening, Chip is annoying save for being made into a god out of nowhere, Eggman is good until the woefully predictable GoTW betrayal, there's just nothing for me here. Graphics are good, music is good, artstyle is good, everything else is bleh. 

 

If Colors is the "C Student", Unleashed is the "D Student", someone who did most things he set out to do wrong but scrapped by just enough to pass and that passing grade is seen as a hallmark due to said student regularly getting failing grades in the past.

 

Yeah, I was exaggerating the ratio quite a bit. But my point about it still stands. There's barely any real 3D platforming. My point about Unleashed being the foundation of Colors was just for more acknowledgement of the game, strictly towards the Daytime stages. It needs a little bit more credit than it really got. The Werehog wasn't an element carried over into Colors, so I wasn't mentioning it as a point.

 

The story might not have been as well written as, say, the Storybook Series but it didn't feel as insulting to me. There was a better sense of balance between the tones it set and the narrative in place, rather than the story's tone controlling the narrative. Yeah the "Eggman betrayed by GotW" formula has been done to death, but it felt minor in comparison to a lot of Colours material.

 

I see where you're coming from with the medals though. I hated that god forsaken excuse for padding, and was glad for the Red Ring exchange instead. As for the "Unleashed was the game that Sega wanted to make and didn't play it safe" argument thingie, as much fun as Colors is, it honestly felt like it was just trying to check off criticisms from different game reviewers more than anything else.

 

For the students running gag, if Sonic Unleashed was a D grade paper, the student got worried about the D, checked off the teachers "list of improvements" and solely tried to make it fit the requirements to the letter... at the expense of the amount of effort put into the paper. They did enough to get a higher score, but it didn't have the same amount of love and care the other had originally put in. Effort yes, but not nearly as much heart, which can bring up the letter grade exponentially if the requirements were met as well.

 

all this talk about students reminds me I only have around another week or so of Summer left...

[Nepenthe]

I don't like this general acceptance that people only like Colors because it wasn't shit and not due to the fact that it was a genuinely good game and a good experience.

I don't think anyone who doesn't already hate modern gameplay thinks Colors isn't a good game. But you're on an uphill battle to explain how the situational context and age-old beliefs of the franchise surrounding it had absolutely no impact on its reception at all. It doesn't exist in a vacuum.

[Kuzu]

So explain to me how Colors "didn't try", when Unleashed literally had half a game based around what was popular at the time (GoW and QTEs) and not try to make a more Sonic focused experience like it's successors?

I don't like this general acceptance that people only like Colors because it wasn't shit and not due to the fact that it was a genuinely good game and a good experience.

You'd help your case a lot more if you didn't use Unleashed as a comparison point. Which is what everyone is criticizing about it.

You can only say Colors looks good by comparing it to its mediocre brethren.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

So explain to me how Colors "didn't try", when Unleashed literally had half a game based around what was popular at the time (GoW and QTEs) and not try to make a more Sonic focused experience like it's successors?

 

According to Yoshihisa Hashimoto (the Director and Lead Game Designer for Unleashed), the aformentioned half of the game was meant to bring in more people yes, but also to highlight Sonic's new gameplay. He knew that it was gonna be controversial, but he didn't let that stop him. He didn't want to alienate anyone with our favorite creature of the night (besides Batman).

 

Considering how in many of the people's eyes the exact opposite happened, it's quite ironic.

[Soniman]

I don't think anyone who doesn't already hate modern gameplay thinks Colors isn't a good game. But you're on an uphill battle to explain how the situational context and age-old beliefs of the franchise surrounding it had absolutely no impact on its reception at all. It doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

 

And yet the things completely unrelated to the series at that point like the power ups, the tone/style, were still praised. If a game is at a point where it's previously lambasted predecessors hold no bearing on it in negative way (ie "hey this game is actually fun and enjoyable, and the previous games' infamy is irrelevant to that enjoyment") then it's generally seen as a good game in principle. Im not saying comparisons don't happen, but saying people only found Colors enjoyable because previous games were shit isn't fair.

 

You can only say Colors looks good by comparing it to its mediocre brethren.

 

Except no? Colors does enough on it's own to stand up on it's own two feet and reach an acceptable level of quality. And this is completely ignoring that people do this with most games in the franchise anyway so I don't know why it's only Colors that is dragged through the mud for this.

[Kuzu]

Because Colors seems to get praise as if it was some hallmark for the series...when it wasn't.

I'm not saying it isn't a good game because it is, just not to the degree that most people would have you believe and that there were better platformers at the time.

[Nepenthe]

And yet the things completely unrelated to the series at that point like the power ups, the tone/style, were still praised. If a game is at a point where it's previously lambasted predecessors hold no bearing on it in negative way (ie "hey this game is actually fun and enjoyable, and the previous games' infamy is irrelevant to that enjoyment") then it's generally seen as a good game in principle. Im not saying comparisons don't happen, but saying people only found Colors enjoyable because previous games were shit isn't fair.

 

The tone and style were relevant at the time as a point of comparison, i.e., "these bad games had a serious style, so it stands to reason that a good Sonic game should invoke a cartoony tone," and people and critics made this point innumerable times with little regard to the quality of the jokes and narrative themselves.

 

Regardless, I never stated that was the only reason people like Colors; I've admitted here and on plenty of other occasions that I don't even think it's a bad game at all. My point is, the changes Colors has brought to their franchise are in some part reactionary- the direct result of bad reception to the way Sonic Team was doing things beforehand- so it is inevitable that its changes will be seen with a positive bias regardless of their quality. It is the same principle that allowed Episode 1 to achieve better critical consensus than Sonic Unleashed when everyone knows Episode 1 is a technically and aesthetically broken mess.

[Semi-colon e]

People have already covered Unleashed and Sonic 2 (though this is only because Sonic Team seem to have a boner for it, mind), so I'll move onto another...

 

Sonic Advance.

 

To a certain extent, anyway. People are always claiming that Sonic Advance is the "true" Sonic 4, and I can see why, it takes a lot of the stuff in 3&K and adds to it. But it also takes so much away. It's kind of unfair to call it Sonic 4 because as great a game as it is, it's very simplistic in terms of level structure (though there are plenty of alternate routes), it's short as hell, and it doesn't have anywhere near the amount of content 3&K has. While Sonic 4 has these same problems but worse, Advance seems to get a lot of credit that it doesn't need. It's not the "true Sonic 4". However, it's still a really cool game and stands up on it's own merits.

[Yoko/葉子]

As much as I respect Sonic 2 and S3&K, I think people need to realize that they are not absolutely perfect and no game is, the control for Super Sonic in Sonic 2 was not strategic enough and S3&K  spent more time making levels long than actually being creative with ideas for it.

[Mr Loopone]

Is it okay to have a controversial opinion? Okay, here it is: Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

 

Most people on various forums consider this the best Sonic game ever made no questions asked to the point of ignoring some of the other "lesser" Sonic games and refusing to play the other games. While there are parts of the game that do deserve the praise such as introducing a new rival (that you can also play as), the lock on technology idea and removing the air cap so Sonic goes faster after rolling on a slope in the air with the same good physics as the previous two games, plus more Emeralds = more powers but there are problems that seem to get ignored.

 

The graphics are more of a step back compared to the previous games, while the sprites are mostly unaffected (except when Sonic is climbing the bars showing his previous look instead of his new look) even if Sonic looks different and Tails looks similar to his Sonic 2 look some of the backgrounds have take a hit in quality. They are grainy that some people point out as a weakness of the console and the effect only works on certain TVs. Have a composite connection, no problem but having a RF connection or a RGB connection has a perception. Some of the stages however do not have the grainy look like Carnival Night, Mushroom Hill, Flying Battery, Lava Reef/Hidden Palace and Death Egg or have grainy look/no grainy look like Ice Cap, Hydro City and Sandopolis showing inconsistances in the art design of the game whether to be like mostly RGB like many games on the console or composite bound like Vectorman, Eternal Champions, the Tectoy Duke Nukem 3D game. Streets of Rage 3 also suffers from this problem.

 

The actual game is buggier to the point where in the instructions mention this (normally games don't mention when a point crashes or getting stuck on scenery):

 

 

Dr. Robotnik has created many diabolical traps which take advantage of Sonic's ultra-fast speed. Watch out for traps that Sonic cannot escape. If you fall into the wrong trap, you might have to reset the game (by pressing the RESET button) and start again at the beginning of the Zone you were last in. When Sonic is flashing (after being hit) don't let him travel too quickly.

 

Also earlier in the manual:

 

 

In the IceCap Zone and throughout the game, avoid having Tails get stuck in passageways or get caught in traps. Have Tails activate Starposts or into a Special Stage as quickly as possible.

 

I know Sonic 1 & 2 had their fair share of bugs (the jump bug, the graphic glitch in Emerald Hill Zone) and all games have bugs and glitches but to mention them in the manual doesn't comfort the player. Yes, Sonic 3 & Knuckles was rushed to the point that it had to be one game but split into two then if you owned both, you can join it back up together. The same manual made a spelling mistake (Dr. Robotnic) and does not mention regarding moving the barrels up and down in Carnival Night causing many people to be stuck on the game to either years later when it was explained or just figured it out.

 

The levels in the stages go on for a very long time to the point whether I'm near the end or half way through and want it to end. It seems to really affect Marble Garden the most but Launch Base and Sandopolis are just as guilty (Marble Garden is when I had enough of Sonic 3, Sandopolis on the S&K part). There are faster stages such as Mushroom Hill and Flying Battery that are a bit more streamlined by it really do seem to be inconsistant where to be like the earlier games but expanded or to be lengthy adventures that can drag on. Maybe there might be an issue on item placement as well but luckily S3&K has fixed a few of the problems compared to Sonic 3 where it was more brutal.

 

It's just that many people treat this as the untouchable golden egg of the series and can't understand why, it's not a bad platformer and plays well compared to some other platformers at the time (unlike Awesome Possum where it has bad level design and dodgy physics), it's just something about it.

[NocturnalTwilight]

Some-what of a Sonic Game, but I felt I had to mention All Stars Racing Transform, I really really just don't like it, but that's my opinion. I think the first one is by far superior. The all star moves are butchered in ASRT as everybody basically has the same thing when they turn into a plane and shoot other players, in their own way of course. But in the first one, characters get their own special and unique All Star move, like Super Sonic and Super Shadow. Also, the boats in Transformed are really awful, the steering is kinda bad and just makes me rage quit. I understand they're trying to give you a challenge, but it's just a load of bull. I just traded in that game and got the first one, and I am by far happier than I was with the sequel. 

[Milo]

I've noticed that Sonic 4: Episode II has been recently getting some positive remarks from some people because it's some sort of significant improvement over Episode I for some reasons I sometimes understand but still disagree and other reasons I can't really fathom. As far as I'm concerned, the improvement is at best the equivalent of getting bird shit instead of dog shit, at worst it's actually worse than Episode I considering what was changed for the worse and taking into consideration the circumstances of Episode II's development compared to Episode I.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Yeow

[SilJeff]

SA2 because of the (already mentioned) fact that 2/3rds are crap that are out of place in the series, plus that they were made even worse here than in SA1. Plus even the Shadow and Sonic levels (despite being relatively the best in the game) are not really good. They are watered down SA1 levels that are nothing more than "hold forward to win, do a homing attack chain, hold forward to win". And yet so many treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

 

Also, I put my vote on Generations, even if I think Seaside Hill Modern and Planet Wisp Modern are the two best levels in 3D Sonic as of 8/25/2013 (which will likely change this October if Lost World is as awesome as its looking). Everything else is just meh with the same shallow boosting, the terrible "Classic" Sonic levels, and the bosses (though I do like Perfect Chaos [unrelated note: ironically, I think the console version is a million times better than the handheld version, yet Biolizard and the Egg Emperor from the handheld version are my favorite bosses in Generations] in it) are atrocious.

[Chaos Incarnate]

SA2 because of the (already mentioned) fact that 2/3rds are crap that are out of place in the series, plus that they were made even worse here than in SA1. Plus even the Shadow and Sonic levels (despite being relatively the best in the game) are not really good. They are watered down SA1 levels that are nothing more than "hold forward to win, do a homing attack chain, hold forward to win". And yet so many treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

 

Also, I put my vote on Generations, even if I think Seaside Hill Modern and Planet Wisp Modern are the two best levels in 3D Sonic as of 8/25/2013 (which will likely change this October if Lost World is as awesome as its looking). Everything else is just meh with the same shallow boosting, the terrible "Classic" Sonic levels, and the bosses (though I do like Perfect Chaos [unrelated note: ironically, I think the console version is a million times better than the handheld version, yet Biolizard and the Egg Emperor from the handheld version are my favorite bosses in Generations] in it) are atrocious.

I always die a little on the inside when people say they don't like Generations. It was a huge love letter to the fanbase Different tastes, I guess.

[SilJeff]

I always die a little on the inside when people say they don't like Generations. It was a huge love letter to the fanbase Different tastes, I guess.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the throwbacks. But as a game, I don't like playing it

[FireBird75]

For me, it's the following:

Sonic Triple Trouble: 

Good game but it just wasn't as fun as I thought it was gonna be.  Maybe I'll give it another go one of these days.

 

Sonic R:

While the game is certainly interesting and I do like the music, it really doesn't look like it plays very well.

 

The Sonic Adventure Games:

As much as I loved the two titles, I admit they haven't exactly aged that well.  Because of the gameplay right? WRONG!!!

I actually think most of the gameplay and control from both games has aged rather well.  It's the game DESIGN that hasn't aged well.  Having Tails constantly in races and then in a mech?  Butchering the radar for SA2's treasure hunting stages? A slow Amy Rose!?  FISHING STAGES!?  Not good design there Sonic Team.  I'm sure there some more hiccups I could mention but everything else in both games has surprisingly stood the test of time.  At least, in my opinion.

 

Sonic and the Secret Rings:

Don't get it twisted!  I'm merely talking from a critical standpoint here

Gamerankings:

Sonic 06-->48.74%

SatSR----->70.71%

While Secret Rings was better than 0Shit, it definitely shouldn't have averaged that much higher.

 

Sonic Unleashed:

I know a lot of people like this one, myself included, but in all honesty the game's quality is probably on the same level with Heroes (good but not great).

[Vertekins]

Why, I don't believe Chronicles has been mentioned yet.

 

It's beyond belief that this utter shit got glowing reviews. Absolutely unbelievable considering the glaring incompetence oozing from every orifice of the game. It just lends more credence to the bribing rumors.

 

The music and sound effects are absolute travesties that mock the songs from which the 'remixes' were originally derived and are especially terrible because they were stolen fanmade midi's with sound channels removed. The sound effects are pure fail regarding how some of them try to mimic vocalization and the other sfx being bad choices. They sound like they were ripped from a website that provides low quality sfx then inserted into the game with little consideration.

 

The characterization and portrayals of the characters is below the bottom of the barrel. Asshole Sonic, Dickwad Knuckles, Dimmer-than-a-dead-lightbulb Big, an Amy that is even worse than her Battle portrayal if that can be believed, a Shadow whose......friendship with Omega is flanderized to such a massive degree it makes him and the robot sitting ducks for crack shipping and a Tails whose portrayal is thoroughly unremarkable.

 

The story is trite. No sense of epicness or threat. The ending sucked balls because of how unbelievable it was and the ridiculous way in which it was set up and the way it arguably breaks the status quo and is filled with violations of the logic even the game itself sets up. Cliffhangers with no chance of conclusion are lame.

 

The visuals are boring and static. Character model's in-battle are low poly and make the characters look like they're jacked-up on amphetamines both appearance and animation-wise, the overworld looks lifeless and static and 3D elements stick out like a sore thumb. The in-battle effects look low-res and the graphics for items actually contain dither and lack anti-aliasing. The icons for POW moves look like they were knocked-together in MS Paint in a few minutes each.

 

The battle system is thoroughly unbalanced. You have absolutely no incentive to use characters like Rouge, Tails and Big because they're outstripped in practically every area by other characters. Moves like Echidna Rush, Chaos Spear, Refresh and Heal are broken beyond belief and Ferox removes any issues concerning being able to pull-off the latter two moves.

 

The assertion that there are 13 characters to use being technically bull as not only are some characters non-permanent but you're forced into using specific characters anyway with great frequency.

 

It just boggles the mind as to how this game received such a good reception, has been exulted for it's portrayals of the characters when they can make very good contenders for worst portrayals in the entire series and when the game clearly exudes the bare minimum of effort invested into it.

[RobotOmega]

Sonic Heroes. 

 

I remember a lot of people loving the game when it was released, but I was never very fond of it. All the campaigns were too similar, and the story wasn't nearly as complicated as I would have liked it to be.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

Why, I don't believe Chronicles has been mentioned yet.

 

It's beyond belief that this utter shit got glowing reviews. Absolutely unbelievable considering the glaring incompetence oozing from every orifice of the game. It just lends more credence to the bribing rumors.

 

The music and sound effects are absolute travesties that mock the songs from which the 'remixes' were originally derived and are especially terrible because they were stolen fanmade midi's with sound channels removed. The sound effects are pure fail regarding how some of them try to mimic vocalization and the other sfx being bad choices. They sound like they were ripped from a website that provides low quality sfx then inserted into the game with little consideration.

 

The characterization and portrayals of the characters is below the bottom of the barrel. Asshole Sonic, Dickwad Knuckles, Dimmer-than-a-dead-lightbulb Big, an Amy that is even worse than her Battle portrayal if that can be believed, a Shadow whose......friendship with Omega is flanderized to such a massive degree it makes him and the robot sitting ducks for crack shipping and a Tails whose portrayal is thoroughly unremarkable.

 

The story is trite. No sense of epicness or threat. The ending sucked balls because of how unbelievable it was and the ridiculous way in which it was set up and the way it arguably breaks the status quo and is filled with violations of the logic even the game itself sets up. Cliffhangers with no chance of conclusion are lame.

 

The visuals are boring and static. Character model's in-battle are low poly and make the characters look like they're jacked-up on amphetamines both appearance and animation-wise, the overworld looks lifeless and static and 3D elements stick out like a sore thumb. The in-battle effects look low-res and the graphics for items actually contain dither and lack anti-aliasing. The icons for POW moves look like they were knocked-together in MS Paint in a few minutes each.

 

The battle system is thoroughly unbalanced. You have absolutely no incentive to use characters like Rouge, Tails and Big because they're outstripped in practically every area by other characters. Moves like Echidna Rush, Chaos Spear, Refresh and Heal are broken beyond belief and Ferox removes any issues concerning being able to pull-off the latter two moves.

 

The assertion that there are 13 characters to use being technically bull as not only are some characters non-permanent but you're forced into using specific characters anyway with great frequency.

 

It just boggles the mind as to how this game received such a good reception, has been exulted for it's portrayals of the characters when they can make very good contenders for worst portrayals in the entire series and when the game clearly exudes the bare minimum of effort invested into it.

 

I never mentioned it because I'd assumed everybody knew it was utter shit as a whole. You mean this got glowing reviews?! I mean, I personally thought that there was a small bit of good from this game, but it's mostly from a guilty pleasure standpoint.

 

Do... do game reviewers have any sense when these games are reviewed? Is there an expert that takes all of these elements from the franchise and puts them into perspective when they have to give Sonic games (or just games of a franchise in general) a score? Or do they just not care as much?

[Vertekins]

I never mentioned it because I'd assumed everybody knew it was utter shit as a whole. You mean this got glowing reviews?! I mean, I personally thought that there was a small bit of good from this game, but it's mostly from a guilty pleasure standpoint.

 

Do... do game reviewers have any sense when these games are reviewed? Is there an expert that takes all of these elements from the franchise and puts them into perspective when they have to give Sonic games (or just games of a franchise in general) a score? Or do they just not care as much?

 

Official Nintendo Magazine i.e The British equivalent of Nintendo Power - 93%

1UP - 100

N-Revolution UK - 90

Zentendo - 90

Gameplayer - 90

Game Informer - 85

 

....Yeah