Is silver canon anymore?

[Emmett L. Brown]

I think trying to keep a factually accurate canon in the Sonic series is a futile effort when the writers themselves fail to fact-check their own stories. And that's not even getting into the retcons. Several characters' ages, backstories, and appearances have changes since their first appearance, but does that mean their first games' stories didn't happen?

 

Knuckles Chaotix doesn't fit any of the current character stories anymore, and Sonic Rush has the dubious honour of both its heroine and villain switching backstories back and forth. Sonic Rivals at least doesn't contradict its own sequel.

 

As for Silver, he was a fun boss fight in Generations. That's more than enough for me.

[Your Vest Friend]

does that mean their first games' stories didn't happen?

In terms of its recognition nowadays;

Sonic: No. Duh.

Tails: No.

Knuckles: No...but it is a bit different if Sonic 4 indicates anything.

Amy: No.

Chaotix: Yes.

Cream: Maybe.

Big: No.

Shadow: No.

Rouge: No.

Blaze: Most likely not.

Silver: Technically no, although how he met Sonic after is still up in the air.

Babylon Rogues: Haven't actually appeared in-story in a main game yet so who knows.

Marine: No.

[Emmett L. Brown]

In terms of its recognition nowadays;

Sonic: No. Duh.

Tails: No.

Knuckles: No...but it is a bit different if Sonic 4 indicates anything.

Amy: No.

Chaotix: Yes.

Cream: Maybe.

Big: No.

Shadow: No.

Rouge: No.

Blaze: Most likely not.

Silver: Technically no, although how he met Sonic after is still up in the air.

Babylon Rogues: Haven't actually appeared in-story in a main game yet so who knows.

Marine: No.

I'm excited to hear your reasoning for why some character alterations are retgone and some are not. Especially Blaze from Sonic 06. Her existence is a huge contradiction, but you argue the game still happened.

 

If an impossible character doesn't disqualify their game then how does Knucles Chaotix get disqualified?

[Your Vest Friend]

Blaze's first story was Sonic Rush.

And it's been hammered into the ground by now that Knuckles Chaotix just didn't happen in the current canon.

[Kuzu]

.....Its pretty telling of Sonic Team's writing ability that actively have to wonder if a character actually exists within the series proper or not.

 

This always bugged me because if 06 was erased from the timeline, when the fuck did Sonic & Co ever meet Silver, Rivals are too nonsensical to be canon but I don't know what to believe anymore as far as this series is concerned, its like everyone is a completely different character nowadays.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Blaze's first story was Sonic Rush.

And it's been hammered into the ground by now that Knuckles Chaotix just didn't happen in the current canon.

So the Blaze in Sonic 06 is the same person who was in Rush? I didn't think that was the case, so I'm interested in your explanation for how that would be the case.

 

Also I'm fully aware of the Chaotix thing. I'm just using it for comparison.

[Sparky]

I think both of the 2-game minieseries that starts with "R" and features an alternate Sonic from across Space-time that fights Eggman Nega are both canon.

 

EDIT: I also think the events of Sonic '06 created the Sol Dimension.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Sparky

[Spin Attaxx]

I don't see how wiping out a god of time creates a whole new dimension with its own past and future. That's like if I were to kill a fly then a bird nest pops into existance.

[Sparky]

I don't see how wiping out a god of time creates a whole new dimension with its own past and future. That's like if I were to kill a fly then a bird nest pops into existance.

Well, it was powerful SUN God that has power over (space?-)time and "eats dimensions for lunch". And the full extent of what I think happened is a combined result of Blaze sealing Iblis and Her in another dimension, SS, SS, and SS defeating Solaris after the entire timeline collapsed into one, and Elise blowing out the Flame of Hope before it could become Mephiles and Iblis, and all the... what I'll call "Sol" Energy (including Blaze) got seperated from Sonic's world and through the connection between the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, created a parrelel dimension that may possibly be made up of parts of Sonic's world that may have had a connection to the Sol Emeralds similar to the connection between the Chaos Emeralds and the Knuckles Tribe, the Space Colony Ark, or the Gaia Temples, all except for Soleanna itself. Also the fact that city is called "Soleanna" and has (had) 7 emerald cut "gems of Soleanna" that are green, blue, red, yellow, cyan, purple, and white. Another part of this theory is that because the past and future had collapsed into the present when Mephiles and Iblis became Solaris, the Sol Dimension was synced up with Sonic's Worlds present, which is why Blaze exists in the present of the Sol Dimension and not 200 years later.

 

Of course all of this is just what I think happened. 

[Spin Attaxx]

Well, it was powerful SUN God that has power over (space?-)time and "eats dimensions for lunch".

Note the lack of "poops out dimensions when bowel failure strikes" anywhere. And just because Solaris has the same theme naming as the Sol Dimension/Emeralds, it doesn't mean they're related. By that logic, Iblis, the Ifrit and the Ifrit Golem (and the Iblis Erazor Djinn mentioned) are all the same guy. And they're not.

 

And the full extent of what I think happened is a combined result of Blaze sealing Iblis and Her in another dimension, SS, SS, and SS defeating Solaris after the entire timeline collapsed into one, and Elise blowing out the Flame of Hope before it could become Mephiles and Iblis, and all the... what I'll call "Sol" Energy (including Blaze) got seperated from Sonic's world and through the connection between the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, created a parrelel dimension that may possibly be made up of parts of Sonic's world that may have had a connection to the Sol Emeralds similar to the connection between the Chaos Emeralds and the Knuckles Tribe, the Space Colony Ark, or the Gaia Temples, all except for Soleanna itself.

So basically "nonsensical timespace shit" plus "shit I made up not implied anywhere" love each other very much and out pops the Sol Dimenson?

 

Also the fact that city is called "Soleanna" and has (had) 7 emerald cut "gems of Soleanna" that are green, blue, red, yellow, cyan, purple, and white.

So you're implying a bunch of shoe gems that just look like them became cosmic keystones simply because we never see them again ergo they must have been whisked away to another dimension? And they're not just alternate Chaos Emeralds?

 

Another part of this theory is that because the past and future had collapsed into the present when Mephiles and Iblis became Solaris, the Sol Dimension was synced up with Sonic's Worlds present, which is why Blaze exists in the present of the Sol Dimension and not 200 years later.

I'm sorry, but this whole theory of yours really feels like a drawn out way of saying "a wizard did it". More than likely Sonic Team want you to forget Blaze was in '06 (that one cheeky reference in Generations aside) and that Rush is her canon backstory.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Sparky]

Note the lack of "poops out dimensions when bowel failure strikes" anywhere. And just because Solaris has the same theme naming as the Sol Dimension/Emeralds, it doesn't mean they're related. By that logic, Iblis, the Ifrit and the Ifrit Golem (and the Iblis Erazor Djinn mentioned) are all the same guy. And they're not.

 

So basically "nonsensical timespace shit" plus "shit I made up not implied anywhere" love each other very much and out pops the Sol Dimenson?

 

So you're implying a bunch of shoe gems that just look like them became cosmic keystones simply because we never see them again ergo they must have been whisked away to another dimension? And they're not just alternate Chaos Emeralds?

 

I'm sorry, but this whole theory of yours really feels like a drawn out way of saying "a wizard did it". More than likely Sonic Team want you to forget Blaze was in '06 (that one cheeky reference in Generations aside) and that Rush is her canon backstory.

Well, it's just what I think happened. The big time paradox that was '06 caused all of Solaris' power and energy to be seperated from Sonic's world and becomes Blaze's world. It might not make sense to everyone but it does to me.

[Spin Attaxx]

Except that the implication is that Solaris' power and energy wasn't merely seperated from Sonic's world, but rather outright ceased to be. Not sent somewhere else, but just stopped existing.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Well, it's just what I think happened. The big time paradox that was '06 caused all of Solaris' power and energy to be seperated from Sonic's world and becomes Blaze's world. It might not make sense to everyone but it does to me.

It's hardly a greater stretch than the average JRPG backstory (like Final Fantasy VIII), but I think you're putting more thought into it than any of the writers ever did.

[Sparky]

It's hardly a greater stretch than the average JRPG backstory (like Final Fantasy VIII), but I think you're putting more thought into it than any of the writers ever did.

I overthink everything.

[Sonic The Badass]

Even the description of rivals says hes a mysterious hedgehog.... has he ever been refereed to like that again? If not we can assume that rivals is meant to be canon.

[Your Vest Friend]

That's...dodgy logic.

[Chaos Incarnate]

I really don't see why Silver wouldn't be canon. 06's events were erased, but it technically still happened, and Silver has made sporadic appearances since his reintroduction in Rivals. If he wasn't canon, then why bother have him show up at all?

[Sonic The Badass]

So the Blaze in Sonic 06 is the same person who was in Rush? I didn't think that was the case, so I'm interested in your explanation for how that would be the case.

 

Also I'm fully aware of the Chaotix thing. I'm just using it for comparison.

I figured 06 as a prequel to rush as far as blaze is concerned. when she went into another dimension in 06 it could have been rush dimension. though there is the problem of none of it happening. in theory the dimension change for blaze meant she was not effected by sonic s dimension by the time 06 ended. If thats not the case then 06 is a failed attempt at bringing an awesome character to the main canon.

[Chaos Incarnate]

So the Blaze in Sonic 06 is the same person who was in Rush? I didn't think that was the case, so I'm interested in your explanation for how that would be the case.

 

Also I'm fully aware of the Chaotix thing. I'm just using it for comparison.

Despite Iizuka stating her Rush story was her canon origin, I like to view it like this:

 

The events of 06 occur, Blaze is sent to another dimension to seal Iblis. Later, Solaris is wiped out of existence, thus altering time and space: Blaze is still in that dimension, but history is altered where she had lived there all along. Sonic Rush takes place after Solaris is wiped out of existence.

 

There's some gaps to fill, I know, but that's how I always saw it.

[Sonic The Badass]

my thoughts on sonic 06 rush and rivals: 06 is explaining how blaze got to rush dimension, since she is in a different dimension all the erasing of events only affect her memory of anything that happened in sonics dimension before rush, she does not remember 06 and remains in rush. rivals is the sequel to rush introducing silver. in this way we can treat 06 as a back story to blaze of rush. and still introduce silver in rivals.

[Diogenes]

But that doesn't make any sense. There's no logical mechanism that would allow Blaze to stay in another dimension post-time-reset but still have the reset affect her memory; it's just making things up to fit the theory you want. And if Rush Blaze is '06 Blaze, what happened to Iblis being sealed inside of her? If the reset couldn't physically affect Blaze, it shouldn't physically affect Iblis, and it should've exploded out of her and destroyed that dimension, but there's not the slightest hint of it in either of the Rush games.

[DarkLight]

I've just come to accept that she just died from struggling to contain Iblis and her being 'transported into another dimension' was just her exploding in a pretty, non-messy fashion.

 

Why else does she not appear in End of the World when all of time and space was getting fucked up by Solaris's tantrum? If she was alive and well in another dimension, then wouldn't she show up along with the other characters? And don't try to tell me space could not have been affected if Solaris is only a time god. Time and space are intertwining powers. If one is on the breech of disaster, the other one will be affected as well.

Edited August 31, 2013 by DarkLight

[Jet Prower]

This is seriously being overthought here. Honestly as long as they are still in the games is all that matters to me at this point. Yes, Sega has screwed up a bit by not keeping a set canon in place, but it doesn't mean that it can't be fixed later of course. Still, this should have been settled long ago instead of letting your fanbase go nuts trying to place games here and there and letting peopel tryand figure out what is and isn't canon and just a side thing. The zelda series even after all this time finally put out that canon time line to place all their games into a set to settle it once and for all. Yes, the multiple timeline thing is a bit nutty but it makes sense now. Who's to say the same thing isn't happening here. That all these games are canon but each is a different time line or different dimension? Sonic is honestly built around there being multiple other dimensions out there, so it could be possible you know.

[goku262002]

Yeah we will just have to wait and see if the Madworld writers will fix any of this mess, they are Sonic Team's official writers now so whatever they say is pretty much how it goes.

[Anti Alias]

I still go with the theory that '06 is an alternate universe that is parallel to the main canon.

if Blaze has two different origins, both can't take continuity before or after each other.

the whole bad future of Sonic '06 is what would happen if Iblis existed in that time, in the main timeline though Iblis never existed at all, so neither does '06.

Blaze's origin is Sonic Rush, Silver's origin is Sonic Rivals, which is what the creators say and what I fell makes more sense for me.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Anti Alias