The mutability of the Sonic series

[Amomynous]

I didn't really know what to call this topic, I suppose it's a 'what if' of sorts,but it's more of an appreciation of how the Sonic franchise changed so much because of circumstance,  or something seemingly insignificant at first glance, as well as an appreciation of how derivative works become the derived.

 

If Sega hadn’t made Sonic 06 and then failed to port it to the Wii then there would be no Sonic Storybook games. SaTSR made a large mark on Sonic’s character that was visible in both Unleashed and SaTBK, and together they made a huge positive difference in how I perceive and enjoy Sonic’s character, as well as being games I simply enjoy. With that in mind, would the Sonic series have genuinely been better off if Sonic 06 never existed? If you look at the bigger picture it becomes clear that it can’t be really known what would have happened if it didn't, just that the Storybook series won’t be there and Sonic Unleashed would be different,and that would likely also not exist.

 

Then there’s the bigger picture still; without some obscure manga, Amy Rose would not exist. Without Aosth or SatAM, Sonic’s portrayal in the games would undoubtedly be different, and of course Archie’s STH wouldn’t have had any of the satAM characters. If Sonic OVA had a successful run, then it too would have left much more of a mark.

 

So maybe you've noticed how something like circumstance has effected characters design, or how one aspect has had such a big knock-on effect despite how it may first appear, I think the derivative becoming the derived is an example of this, because it can appear as if Sega is always the one derived from.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amomynous

[Vertekins]

If AoSth/SatAM didn't exist and didn't establish Sonic's love of Chilli Dogs, we wouldn't have this bit of pure brilliance;

 

 

His liking for Chili Dogs is actually given more prominence above running as seen in his profile in the Official Japanese SADV3 guide;

 

 

Bottom line in the info area is '好きなもの....チリドッグ' basically translates to 'likes....chili dogs'

[WarioBone]

I wish the OVA would've had a successful run just so then we would've had more fuckin' OVA.

 

The OVA is still my favorite version of the series and that probably won't change anytime soon.

[Wraith]

It boggles my mind that Sonic isn't dead.

 

 

Not saying it's a bad franchise or anything, But as much as Sonic has jumped drastically in pretty much every aspect of the game and as much as he's dropped the ball, he's still kicking. Series that have been through half as much have been dead in the water. The little blue fucker is unstoppable and better than ever and if you think about it it's mindblowing. In a way, his failures have only made him stronger. 

[Vertekins]

If anything, the fact that Sonic's still live and kicking after complete messes like Shadow the Hedgehog and '06 is a true testament to how genuinely adored he is.

[Amomynous]

Plasm, I do believe you've read the title and assumed you knew what the topic was about .

 

His liking for Chili Dogs is actually given more prominence above running as seen in his profile in the Official Japanese SADV3 guide;

 

 

Is Sonic's love of running actually ever explicitly mentioned in that manner? It seems to be treated as more of a 'given.'

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amomynous

[SenEDDtor Missile]

MODS, PLEASE DELETE THIS.

Edited September 20, 2013 by 743 ED Missile

[Amomynous]

OK that's it I'm changing the title.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

OK that's it I'm changing the title.

"Circumstantial Changes"?

[Amomynous]

No because it's not all circumstantial, I honestly feel like calling this 'I honestly don't know what to call this anymore' but I don't know how well that will go down with the mods.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amomynous

[WarioBone]

If anything, the fact that Sonic's still live and kicking after complete messes like Shadow the Hedgehog and '06 is a true testament to how genuinely adored he is.

 

I believe that there are a few factors at work here.

 

1.  Sega doesn't have a lot of money-printing franchises.  Sonic is one of the few, probably because

 

2.  His fanbase is huge.  And stupid.  Now, I'll admit, I'm stupid for a few franchises myself.  Hell, I bought Journey of Dreams knowing how much of a fucking abortion it was going to be, but I bought it because I love me some fucking NiGHTS and I wanted more.  That's exactly the mentality that a lot of Sonic fans have.  Doesn't matter how shit it is; buy it because it has Sonic's face on it.  Nintendo does this with Mario a lot, too, but you could at least say those games are "technically fun", if not hackneyed to hell and back.

 

Lots of people who will buy anything means lots of $ to dig Sonic out of the holes he's been thrown into.  Look at practically any review of any Sonic game since like...uh...I dunno.  Heroes?  What you'll find is quite the opposite of adoration.

Edited September 19, 2013 by NOPE

[Vertekins]

Lots of people who will buy anything means lots of $ to dig Sonic out of the holes he's been thrown into.  Look at practically any review of any Sonic game since like...uh...I dunno.  Heroes?  What you'll find is quite the opposite of adoration.

 

Ok then. Let's call it loyalty.

 

Regarding another subject, I've always perused the idea of what would have happened to the Sonic series if;

 

- Sonic X-treme was released and...

- Sonic Adventure was released on the Saturn.

 

It's a really intriguing thought. I can't say that I ever had the inclination that X-treme would've done the series any true good considering how primitive and badly-designed it looked and considering that it's likely that Saturn Adventure would've released near the end of the Saturn's life in Western territories where the console was never particularly successful, whether or not it would've had a positive impact on the franchise. What Sonic game would've released on the Dreamcast?

[Amomynous]

I don't know that much about Sonic X-treme, but there's a possibility Tiara Boobowski would still be kicking around, with a modern redesign.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amomynous

[WarioBone]

Yo, OP, may I suggest you rename this to "Sonic's Survivability" or something like that?

 

Anyway, a lot of people seem to think that X-Treme would've been an early and more catastrophic Sonic '06. :U  Let's be honest here, the game looked like a mess, and Sonic may not have had the staying power he did so many years later.  Much as I give the blue guy the business, I'm glad that game didn't come out and completely wreck the franchise.

 

If Adventure had come out on the Saturn, though?  How much of a decline in quality are we talking here?  Or are we saying that it's basically the same game but with worse graphics?

Edited September 19, 2013 by NOPE

[Wraith]

Tiara would have ended up with the likes of Fang. If Xtreme wasn't a hit, people would just forget about her then beg for her revival years later.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Plasm Wraith

[Amomynous]

Yo, OP, may I suggest you rename this to "Sonic's Survivability" or something like that?

 

No, because that isn't what the topic is about in the slightest, you've given me an idea though.

[Vertekins]

If Adventure had come out on the Saturn, though?  How much of a decline in quality are we talking here?  Or are we saying that it's basically the same game but with worse graphics?

 

The Sonic World area in Jam was actually cobbled together from elements of Saturn Adventure when it was in development. Everything else is left up to the imagination but I've always wondered if Saturn Adventure would feature Jam Sonic's running speed and a greater focus on overall exploration above speed.

[Amomynous]

I've never heard of 'Saturn adventure' can you give me any links on it?

 

To get back on topic, it seems Sonic's portrayal in Sonic Adventure seems quite borrowed from the cartoons, what with the cheesy slang, and the somewhat harsher, 'playground' insults that it seems weird hearing him say nowdays, but it can be hard to tell who's copied who sometimes, considering Sega may have told DiC to portray him that way.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amomynous

[WarioBone]

Hm.  I think the question is whether or not it would've been appealing enough to save the dying-from-birth Saturn.

 

I've never had the pleasure of playing Jam, so I wouldn't know what it's like, but it always looked interesting.  A whole game in that style would certainly be something to marvel, or at least, you know, laugh at, but considering so much of Sonic Adventure is built on things that can only be done on the Dreamcast, it's hard to say if an inferior version would've had the same impact that our real version did.

I've never heard of 'Saturn adventure' can you give me any links on it?

 

She means the version of Sonic Adventure that was going to appear on the Saturn.  Adventure began production on the Saturn before it was moved to the DC.

[Vertekins]

Iv'e never heard of 'Saturn adventure' can you give me any links on it?

 

It's elaborated-upon here.

 

There's even been speculation that Sonic's and Tails' Sonic Jam models being used in the Dreamcast version's Sky Chase is a leftover from the Saturn version but this is unconfirmed.

[Badnik Zero]

Of course the largest impact on Sonic's brand was going multiplatform. I mean when fans ask for the third Adventure game they are really asking for the return of the Dreamcast era, when actually we have a few games we could call SA3 in spirit. We could have gotten that actual Dreamcast game, title and all if Sega's last console was any kind of success. Of course there are many factors in play when it comes to the failure of entire consoles. But the quality of Heroes and all offerings after it paled for years when compared to first-party Sega. I imagine they didn't have the right kind of resources to create games for three platforms. This is why the Nintendo deal is so good for Sonic and Lost World, they're on one console. But think about this now, going back to the original post. Because '06 was not on Wii, that's why we got the Storybook games. Which showed Sega how much of Sonic's audience is on the Wii. Colors replaced the Storybook games for more success, and that leads into Sega's deal with Nintendo. So not only does '06 create the Wii games, it creates Sega's whole foray into Nintendoland right up until Lost World's release. So I guess it's fair to say '06 created a learning experience for Sonic Team after all, kind of like rebuilding after an atomic bomb, lmao.

Edited September 20, 2013 by American Ristar

[Big Panda]

If Adventure was kept as a Saturn game, I speculate that would have ment the Dreamcast would've come about a bit later than it did. I imagine the fact that the Saturn was doing so badly was what made Sega decide that there was no point in briefing life into this corpse anymore. If Adventure was left as a Saturn game, then that would indicate that they did still have faith in the Saturn despite its poor performance on the market, meaning Sega may have put less attention into making a new console that early on.

Additionally, I imagine it would've led to Sega's demise as a console manufacturer much earlier on. Moving on from the Saturn to the Dreamcast did at least help them stay afloat just a little bit longer. Continuing to put all of that money into Saturn games when it clearly wouldn't get them anywhere would've been the final nail in the coffin right there and then.

Edited September 20, 2013 by TheFatPanda

[Kuzu]

I wonder where the series would have gone if 06 was actually good.

[WarioBone]

I wonder where the series would have gone if 06 was actually good.

 

A very dark place.

[Kuzu]

Ok, let's get the whole 06 was shitty attitude out and actually think about this; considering everythng about the series up until 06, where could we have gone after that.