Jump to content
Awoo.

The Rouge the Bat topic


8ther

Recommended Posts

I WAS 7 WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!

I honestly find it extremely hard to believe that a 7 year old could be THAT narrow over how a woman looks. I have an easier time believing in cooties over that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly find it extremely hard to believe that a 7 year old could be THAT narrow over how a woman looks. I have an easier time believing in cooties over that.

Don't be too sure.  None of my friends believe that I vaguely knew the meaning of the word "fuck" and could probably have used "faggot" correctly in a sentence when I was seven.  But I was raised around an older brother who used these words constantly.  (And directed the latter at me quite often)  It depends largely on your upbringing in that regard, so yes, I'm more than willing to believe that someone can understand the concept at the age of seven.

 

But yeah, not the most appropriate topic for that. X3

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She wears too much makeup, she has an overly sensual voice, and she's covered head to toe in hearts. To 7 year old me that screamed hooker.

 

The only makeup she wears is eyeshadow. Though even if she caked it on like a clown, I don't see the leap between "makeup" and "sex worker."

 

Regarding her voice, pretty much every Sonic character speaks in an over-the-top, exaggerated style of speech that would sound somewhat... unnatural or forced coming from a real person, so I'm not sure her tone/dialect/range are really good marks to use either. To me, the archetype they were going for was that she was glamorous and somewhat egotistical, but beyond that her voice doesn't indicate much.

 

As for hearts, well...

 

Puej5FC.jpg

As a ubiquitous symbol, it stands to reason that hearts are fairly common costume accessories.

 

The reason I'm harping on all of this isn't to be confrontational or anything. I just think the connections you're making between aesthetic character traits and certain unfortunate stereotypes needs clarification, perhaps so you can see how tenuous those connections are in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about you guys, but thigh-high high heeled boots certainly have that hooker vibe to me. Her 4Kids voice never helped either, so I can definitely see where people are coming from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only makeup she wears is eyeshadow. Though even if she caked it on like a clown, I don't see the leap between "makeup" and "sex worker."

 

Yeah, it was pretty unfair for me to judge solely off of appearance. It just stood out because she seemed to be the only character who ever wore makeup, so she's contrasted against them in that sense. That being the case, I still associated "makeup" with "sex worker". So either way I jumped huge bounds to conclusions that don't even make sense in a children's game.

 

 

Regarding her voice, pretty much every Sonic character speaks in an over-the-top, exaggerated style of speech that would sound somewhat... unnatural or forced coming from a real person, so I'm not sure her tone/dialect/range are really good marks to use either. To me, the archetype they were going for was that she was glamorous and somewhat egotistical, but beyond that her voice doesn't indicate much.

 

As for the voice, something about her tone just felt sensual to me. I honestly couldn't tell you why.

 

 

As for hearts, well...

 

As a ubiquitous symbol, it stands to reason that hearts are fairly common costume accessories.

 

Alright I may have put that point so I could have 3 points on my little list. Really no footing what so ever for that one.

 

 

 

The reason I'm harping on all of this isn't to be confrontational or anything.

 

Oh I know that. Relax, I don't take conversation personally.

 

 

 

 I just think the connections you're making between aesthetic character traits and certain unfortunate stereotypes needs clarification, perhaps so you can see how tenuous those connections are in the first place.

 

Yeah, it was a douche-y thing for me to say. I've always sort of grouped celebrities and prostitutes together in my head, I know that's fucked up. I just didn't mean to come off as sexist, or shallow (Though by this point it's probably safe to assume I'm at least the latter.) I was just saying what I had honestly thought. Woopsies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't be too sure. None of my friends believe that I vaguely knew the meaning of the word "fuck" and could probably have used "faggot" correctly in a sentence when I was seven. But I was raised around an older brother who used these words constantly. (And directed the latter at me quite often) It depends largely on your upbringing in that regard, so yes, I'm more than willing to believe that someone can understand the concept at the age of seven. But yeah, not the most appropriate topic for that. X3
No, I'm perfectly sure. Applying the word slut to a sultry voice, makeup, and hearts is not easy to believe from a 7 year old, even if they've never heard the word. It would have been far more believable if he applied that for her large breasts even if he never knew the term's meaning, because then I could see where he was coming from despite still being incorrect.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about you guys, but thigh-high high heeled boots certainly have that hooker vibe to me. Her 4Kids voice never helped either, so I can definitely see where people are coming from.

Those kind of boots are staples of fashion divas.  They're often the footwear of choice for a Bratz doll, for example.  But then, I don't expect the target audience to make that connection, so... yeah.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about you guys, but thigh-high high heeled boots certainly have that hooker vibe to me. 

 

I don't really see that, honestly. Like...

gPdaB4a.jpg

 

Pretty much everyone here has these giant, gaudy-looking boots. They look ridiculous, but they don't make me think "prostitute." They make me think "friends having fun at a dance." Honestly, I look at these and I think of Megaman more than anything else.

 

Her 4Kids voice never helped either, so I can definitely see where people are coming from.

 

 

Her 4Kids voice was somewhat unexpectedly deep, and kind of reminded me of women from old Tex Avery cartoons. But nothing about that gives off a "hooker" vibe either, I'd say.

 

You could make a case that this voice sounded "flirty," I suppose, but I think women (and men!) can obviously be flirtatious without supposedly sounding like a "hooker." I don't think there is a tone of voice that can really indicate that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I'm perfectly sure. Applying the word slut to a sultry voice, makeup, and hearts is not easy to believe from a 7 year old, even if they've never heard the word. It would have been far more believable if he applied that for her large breasts even if he never knew the term's meaning, because then I could see where he was coming from.

 

I'm approximating age, I was 7-10 years old when I played SA2B. I didn't grow up with an older brother, but my mother's boyfriends weren't exactly very PC, nor were they afraid to share the meanings of such words with a child. BUT THAT'S OFF TOPIC! Other than that I don't know what to tell you, she is a glamorous character. I associated glamorous with prostitute, which I'm sure says a lot about me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Other than that I don't know what to tell you, she is a glamorous character. I associated glamorous with prostitute, which I'm sure says a lot about me. 

Well, the fact that this was in the past tense is encouraging. As long as you don't still make that association, then that means you've learned and grown, which is good!

 

People are going to dress in a variety of different ways, often simply due to personal preference. What one wears doesn't have to say much about them, and it's best not to be presumptuous or to let stereotypes cloud our vision of what someone's appearance says about them - fictional or otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really think Bratz dolls are the best example to use as an example for this discussion...

 

 

 

Pretty much everyone here has these giant, gaudy-looking boots. They look ridiculous, but they don't make me think "prostitute."

 

And nothing about EqG was really sexualized at all, making the point about similar clothing elements rather disparate with the overall argument as the same certainly can not be said about Rouge circa Adventure 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the fact that this was in the past tense is encouraging. As long as you don't still make that association, then that means you've learned and grown, which is good!

 

I can assure you, I'm not near as stereotypical as I was when I was a child. I'd like to think I'm a pretty nice guy, who gives everyone a fair chance. Geebs I sound like a shmuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really think Bratz dolls are the best example to use as an example for this discussion...

 

And nothing about EqG was really sexualized at all, making the point about similar clothing elements rather disparate with the overall argument as the same certainly can not be said about Rouge circa Adventure 2.

Bratz dolls are fairly sexualized, but sexual and hooker are not inherently synonymous.

 

Also, there's a scene in Equestria Girls where Twilight has a rather abundant display of cleavage.  Rather or not that was intended to be sexual is for another debate, but I wouldn't say it's completely without sexualization.  Anyway, the point is, the boots are certainly stop staples of hookers.  At least, not in that fashion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And nothing about EqG was sexualized at all, making the point about similar clothing elements rather disparate with the argument as the same certainly can not be said about Rouge circa Adventure 2.

I don't think she was necessarily sexualized. I understand that this is how she's commonly received by fans, but I find nothing inherently sexualized about the character.

 

She teasingly flirts a bit with Knuckles ("You just wanted to hold my hand, didn't you?"), but otherwise everything about her - her dialog, her mannerisms, her actions - completely revolves around either espionage or jewel theft. All this really leaves is her appearance, which - in and of itself - doesn't have much that can be called overtly sexual without relying on some stereotypes.

 

The fact that much of the fanbase sees the character this way isn't lost on me, and I do understand their rationale. But understanding it isn't the same as agreeing with it, and I feel that the entire fan-perception of Rouge as "whore-ish" is rooted in presumptions about her appearance rather than anything the character herself says or does, which is ideally the way we should appraise who someone is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think she was necessarily sexualized. I understand that this is how she's commonly received by fans, but I find nothing inherently sexualized about the character.

 

She teasingly flirts a bit with Knuckles ("You just wanted to hold my hand, didn't you?"), but otherwise everything about her - her dialog, her mannerisms, her actions - completely revolves around either espionage or jewel theft. All this really leaves is her appearance, which - in and of itself - doesn't have much that can be called overtly sexual without relying on some stereotypes.

 

The fact that much of the fanbase sees the character this way isn't lost on me, and I do understand their rationale. But understanding it isn't the same as agreeing with it, and I feel that the entire fan-perception of Rouge as "whore-ish" is rooted in presumptions about her appearance rather than anything the character herself says or does, which is ideally the way we should appraise who someone is.

There was a line about Rouge in Knuckles' Wild Canyon rap. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think she was necessarily sexualized. I understand that this is how she's commonly received by fans, but I find nothing inherently sexualized about the character.

All this really leaves is her appearance, which - in and of itself - doesn't have much that can be called overtly sexual without relying on some stereotypes.

 

Now your attempt to play Devil's Advocate is coming off as rather ridiculous. They didn't give her boob physics and make character art of her like this:

 

Sa2_rouge.png

 

Because she had a good sense of humor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm approximating age, I was 7-10 years old when I played SA2B. I didn't grow up with an older brother, but my mother's boyfriends weren't exactly very PC, nor were they afraid to share the meanings of such words with a child. BUT THAT'S OFF TOPIC! Other than that I don't know what to tell you, she is a glamorous character. I associated glamorous with prostitute, which I'm sure says a lot about me. 

I'm not saying your background and growth should be politically correct (lord knows mine certainly wasn't), just that the stuff you associated as "slutty" regarding Rouge have little-to-no connection with that term.

 

Now if you threw in her large breasts and hourglass figure, while that wouldn't stop me from calling you out on it being sexist, that's much easier to see how someone could call someone "slutty" like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

boob physics

To be honest, I actually completely forgot about that (it's been a while since I've played her stages). Nonetheless, it's definitely there, and you make a fair point bringing it up.

 

So yeah, I'm willing to concede that her design was sexualized in that respect, as they added some superfluous animation details to appeal to... certain demographics. But I still feel there's definitely a line (many lines, actually) between "sexualized aesthetics" and "hooker," especially since these aesthetics tell us nothing about what she actually does. I think this sort of association is part of a larger problem where female characters (and unfortunately, many actual women) are frequently saddled with these kinds of derogatory labels due to their appearance, dress, mannerisms, etc.  As I said, prostitution has no dress code or standard of appearance; They come in all shapes and sizes, so I think that forming a "profile" of sorts about what one supposedly looks like is good for little other than stereotyping.

 

Not that I'd be okay with referring to actual prostitutes with derogatory terms either, but that's a different issue altogether.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit: apologize for the bluntness.

I likie the Rouge, best thing to ever come out of Sonic Adventures 2, she has been a very explosive character in general and I love that they gave her Knuckles mechanics in most cases of her being a playable character. Also I felt that she was awesome in Sonic X.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never really saw her as anything special, personally.

At least, on her own. She does make a very good foil to Shadow, as she's a very good contrast to his dark and distant attitude. She's basically like Tails was originally in that she doesn't really stand as her own character but is attached to someone else.

While we can't really see much exploration due to SEGA swerving away from darker storylines, I do think she, if nothing else, does help ease Shadow into showing signs of compassion and openness similar to what he would when he was younger. Their friendship is good, as I imagine even someone like Shadow needs somebody to confide in from time to time, though he'd never show it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I likie the Rouge, best thing to ever come out of Sonic Adventures 2

Hi, and welcome to the forums.  Just so you know, we foster a very vocal atmosphere here at SSMB and require at least a few sentences worth of explanation to support your opinion.  You're welcome to edit your post accordingly, but please make sure to do this for all your posts in the future. ^^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While we can't really see much exploration due to SEGA swerving away from darker storylines, I do think she, if nothing else, does help ease Shadow into showing signs of compassion and openness similar to what he would when he was younger. Their friendship is good, as I imagine even someone like Shadow needs somebody to confide in from time to time, though he'd never show it.

This is dark? If anything, what you're describing sounds really optimistic and positive from a tone standpoint. Themes of compassion and openness are certainly a departure from the grimmer and angrier tone of Shadow's starring game, anyway - which I'd be all for, of course. Making Shadow feel more human (so to speak) and relatable can't be a bad thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is dark? If anything, what you're describing sounds really optimistic and positive from a tone standpoint. Themes of compassion and openness are certainly a departure from the grimmer and angrier tone of Shadow's starring game, anyway - which I'd be all for, of course. Making Shadow feel more human (so to speak) and relatable can't be a bad thing.

Well, maybe not "dark," but the aversion to more serious/complex storylines and Shadow's association with a period of overly dramatic plots makes me assume they probably wouldn't explore it much. I know they did explore Rouge and Shadow's relationships in the handhelds as memory serves (I didn't play them, but I did skim their plots on Wikipedia), however, so at least it's canon that they have care for each other, even if Shadow's the type that's reluctant to admit it.

Overall I think SEGA just wants to focus on sunshine and gumdrops plots starring Sonic and Tails, the darker elements of Lost World aside, and limit Shadow's role in the plot. If not for the fact Shadow's spinoff was a critical bomb, I wouldn't be surprised if SEGA decided Shadow and Rouge were better fit for a more mature spinoff line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more we talk about this, yeah I know there is a different between what we all consider prostitute dress, slutty dress and just normal dress and such. Yeah, Rouge isn't prositutish that much, but anyone that goes around showing off their breast in that manner is sort of slutty. You know people are going to look at them if you show them off and when the game designers have purposely made them bounce a tad, that's all I can call on that.

 

I know some people may think it isn't right to call people like this, but in all honesty, when I see real life people walking around with their boobs hanging almost out because their dresses are so low cut and making all sorts of poses around and such, yeah that's not likely a girl I want to be around. You are obviously going to attract drooling guys that have one thing on their mind if you are a single girl dressing like that. Rouge may not be protitutish as I just mentioned, she honestly isn't, but I would be lying if I didn't think she was a bit slutty just because of the way she acts and dresses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.