The Rouge the Bat topic

[Tara]

The more we talk about this, yeah I know there is a different between what we all consider prostitute dress, slutty dress and just normal dress and such. Yeah, Rouge isn't prositutish that much, but anyone that goes around showing off their breast in that manner is sort of slutty. You know people are going to look at them if you show them off and when the game designers have purposely made them bounce a tad, that's all I can call on that.

 

I know some people may think it isn't right to call people like this, but in all honesty, when I see real life people walking around with their boobs hanging almost out because their dresses are so low cut and making all sorts of poses around and such, yeah that's not likely a girl I want to be around. You are obviously going to attract drooling guys that have one thing on their mind if you are a single girl dressing like that. Rouge may not be protitutish as I just mentioned, she honestly isn't, but I would be lying if I didn't think she was a bit slutty just because of the way she acts and dresses.

You know, finding clothes that completely cover your bust isn't always easy, nor are clothes that do so always the most comfortable choice, especially if you have a considerably larger chest size.  That aside, the amount of cleavage a girl chooses to expose has a number of different meanings from aesthetic appeal to cultural normalcy.  There are parts in my own state where a woman being topless in public is no big deal, but just a matter of a few miles away, the slightest amount of cleavage will set people off.  It's not slutty, it's just different levels of comfort.

 

If you don't like overexposed cleavage, that's your choice, I don't care.  But giving someone the name "slut" because of how men react to something is pretty shallow, in my opinion.  Yeah, men are going to stare at breasts.  Who's fault is that?  Not the woman's.  It may be what they use to justify it, but a man has control of his eyes, whereas a woman does not have the luxury of controlling their breast size (without expensive surgeries, but the ethics of those are a quite different debate).

 

Further, it's sometimes not always easy to tell how much is visible to everyone else at a given time, and asking someone to completely cover up is just misogynistic, not to mention douchey, as hell.

[Dr. Mechano]

The more we talk about this, yeah I know there is a different between what we all consider prostitute dress, slutty dress and just normal dress and such. Yeah, Rouge isn't prositutish that much, but anyone that goes around showing off their breast in that manner is sort of slutty. You know people are going to look at them if you show them off and when the game designers have purposely made them bounce a tad, that's all I can call on that.

 

Slut (n.) - A promiscuous woman.

 

There is zero indication that Rouge (or anyone in this franchise) could be considered "promiscuous." All she really does is government spying and treasure-hunting. Merely drawing attention to oneself does not make one promiscuous, or even sexually active at all.

 

I believe one cannot reasonably infer from someone's choice of dress that they are sexually promiscuous without relying on unfair, prejudiced stereotypes in order to make that connection.

 

I know some people may think it isn't right to call people like this, but in all honesty, when I see real life people walking around with their boobs hanging almost out because their dresses are so low cut and making all sorts of poses around and such, yeah that's not likely a girl I want to be around. You are obviously going to attract drooling guys that have one thing on their mind if you are a single girl dressing like that. Rouge may not be protitutish as I just mentioned, she honestly isn't, but I would be lying if I didn't think she was a bit slutty just because of the way she acts and dresses. 

 

I think the ones to blame here are the aforementioned drooling guys.

 

I'm not saying it's wrong to find someone attractive, but expressing said attraction in an obnoxious manner that makes the person uncomfortable isn't okay. And in that case, the blame falls squarely and solely on the people making the lewd comments/advances, not the person they're making them toward - regardless of their clothing. I like to think that most men and women can control themselves enough to not act like complete animals and lose all sense of tact around someone they find attractive; Respect their boundaries as you'd respect anyone else's. You can't just use the excuse of "Hey, this woman's dressed like a slut, so she's obviously asking for that kind of attention" because that is a horrid assumption and - most likely - she absolutely isn't.

[Tornado]

Yeah, men are going to stare at breasts.  Who's fault is that?  Not the woman's.

 

Rouge has had multiple official character bios that outright state some variety of "uses her looks to get what she wants." Sonic Riders even went so far as to drop the word "seductress" into the mix.

[Tara]

 

Rouge has had multiple official character bios that outright state some variety of "uses her looks to get what she wants." Sonic Riders even went so far as to drop the word "seductress" into the mix.

Which is something you get from reading her profile, not from looking at her breasts.

[Tornado]

Which is something you get from reading her profile, not from looking at her breasts.

You're acting as if the two things aren't directly related to each other. She dresses the way she does because some dude decided the series needed sex appeal and designed her that way; then added the popular Power Girl reasoning to tie it all together.

[Jet Prower]

You guys are saying how it is the man's fault in that they are looking at these girls and it isn't their fault, well if they are going out dressed like that on purpose then it kind of is the girls' fault as well. You can't squarely put it on the guys for looking. If a girl is going to go out purposely dressed with half her boobs hanging out, she should likely expect people to be staring at them most likely and to be thinking they are wanting extra attention from other guys for whatever reason. Yes, there are going to be guys that gawk at them for that, but saying the girl has no control over that isn't fair at all, because if they know people are going to be looking, they could dress more appropriately and people won't look at them like that or make those assumptions.

[Diogenes]

You guys are saying how it is the man's fault in that they are looking at these girls and it isn't their fault, well if they are going out dressed like that on purpose then it kind of is the girls' fault as well.

Nope. Nope nope nope. I, being a man, know damn well that men are perfectly capable of controlling where their eyes are pointing, even if a boob happens to be around.

Stop being a creep.

[Jet Prower]

Nope. Nope nope nope. I, being a man, know damn well that men are perfectly capable of controlling where their eyes are pointing, even if a boob happens to be around.

Stop being a creep.

 

Excuse me? I would appreciate not being called names please.

[Tara]

You're acting as if the two things aren't directly related to each other. She dresses the way she does because some dude decided the series needed sex appeal and designed her that way; then added the popular Power Girl reasoning to tie it all together.

The point brought up was that this is something pertaining to women and the use of cleavage in general.  Yes, this is something that Rouge does.  But not something that is inherently related to women and Rouge is in general.

 

I'm not saying Rouge isn't what one might call promiscuous or "slutty" as it were, but the reasons brought to the table, aside from your own, do not.

 

 

You guys are saying how it is the man's fault in that they are looking at these girls and it isn't their fault, well if they are going out dressed like that on purpose then it kind of is the girls' fault as well. You can't squarely put it on the guys for looking. If a girl is going to go out purposely dressed with half her boobs hanging out, she should likely expect people to be staring at them most likely and to be thinking they are wanting extra attention from other guys for whatever reason. Yes, there are going to be guys that gawk at them for that, but saying the girl has no control over that isn't fair at all, because if they know people are going to be looking, they could dress more appropriately and people won't look at them like that or make those assumptions.

That's still the fault of the man for looking.  Women have every right to dress comfortably, regardless of how men react to it.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Actually in Japan, showing boobs like that isn't considered "slutty". ;p

 

Maybe it's different in America because if you dress a certian way they think you don't respect yourself.

[Tornado]

Stop being a creep.

Interesting. We've gotten a good two pages of talking about this specific subtopic before someone decided to escalate it into fistfights. Not so interesting was who ultimately did it.

So yes. By all means stop, Dio.

[Dr. Mechano]

You guys are saying how it is the man's fault in that they are looking at these girls and it isn't their fault, well if they are going out dressed like that on purpose then it kind of is the girls' fault as well. You can't squarely put it on the guys for looking. If a girl is going to go out purposely dressed with half her boobs hanging out, she should likely expect people to be staring at them most likely and to be thinking they are wanting extra attention from other guys for whatever reason. Yes, there are going to be guys that gawk at them for that, but saying the girl has no control over that isn't fair at all, because if they know people are going to be looking, they could dress more appropriately and people won't look at them like that or make those assumptions.

Noticing and ogling are two different things. It's fine to notice an attractive person and think "Oh, he's/she's cute" or whatever. Just obnoxiously staring at them and getting all up in their space is way beyond that. I don't think anyone here said that it was wrong to look - but it's certainly not fine to gawk and stare. And you absolutely do have control over that.

 

As you were describing "drooling guys" before, I'm going to infer that's the sort of behavior you meant anyway.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

You guys are saying how it is the man's fault in that they are looking at these girls and it isn't their fault, well if they are going out dressed like that on purpose then it kind of is the girls' fault as well

 

.I agree and disagree. It's natural for mens to look at girls boobs and what I've seen when I came to this country, girls dress that that because they WANT that attention. Not alot of people where I am from dress like that just because. But sadly, a girl can be covered up in work clothes and they still can be attacked by creeps. It's not the case in America....

[Tara]

.I agree and disagree. It's natural for mens to look at girls boobs and what I've seen when I came to this country, girls dress that that because they WANT that attention. Not alot of people where I am from dress like that just because. But sadly, a girl can be covered up in work clothes and they still can be attacked by creeps. It's not the case in America....

Quite the contrary, it's pretty damn common in America to for women to be assaulted or harassed regardless of what they're wearing.

[Splash the Otter]

Anyway, Jet is absolutely right. Lots of women dress the way they do because they want men to stare. Furthermore, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like staring at breasts, I find that they still distract me no matter where I'm looking unless they're completely out of my peripheral vision.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Tornado
Knock it off. You've been warned several times on this matter.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The more we talk about this, yeah I know there is a different between what we all consider prostitute dress, slutty dress and just normal dress and such. Yeah, Rouge isn't prositutish that much, but anyone that goes around showing off their breast in that manner is sort of slutty. You know people are going to look at them if you show them off and when the game designers have purposely made them bounce a tad, that's all I can call on that. I know some people may think it isn't right to call people like this, but in all honesty, when I see real life people walking around with their boobs hanging almost out because their dresses are so low cut and making all sorts of poses around and such, yeah that's not likely a girl I want to be around. You are obviously going to attract drooling guys that have one thing on their mind if you are a single girl dressing like that. Rouge may not be protitutish as I just mentioned, she honestly isn't, but I would be lying if I didn't think she was a bit slutty just because of the way she acts and dresses.

It's this judgemental and completely shallow mindset that leads to contempt over the most ridiculous of things. There's a difference in looking like one and acting like one, and a slut is all about action. Rouge has a sexual look, but her acts have been anything but: it says a lot that people would think she's a slut despite being capable of tearing heavily armed mechs with her bare hands and not do a single slutty thing in the whole series. And if you know it isn't right to do something, knowing full well that a person or character is anything but such a derogatory term,why would you keep believing them to be such?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Quite the contrary, it's pretty damn common in America to for women to be assaulted or harassed regardless of what they're wearing.

I didn't know that :[

 

It's different because in Japan there are signs that say "no groping" or "no touching" because it was very bad (to where there are trains for girls only), but I didn't see that here.

[Nepenthe]

The slutshaming in here.

 

Some women dress the way they do for attention. Some women dress the way they do because they genuinely like the style (shocker, I know; women who don't like dressing in tees and jeans all the time). Some women dress the way they do because only certain clothes fit their body shape. Some women may dress the way they do due to financial or location-based circumstances.

 

But let's ascribe the most selfish reason to certain women for dressing in clothing you don't like and let all men off the hook for oggling. That's fair.

[Dr. Mechano]

Anyway, Jet is absolutely right. Lots of women dress the way they do because they want men to stare. 

And you're basing this on... what, exactly?

 

I mean, I'm supposing you've actually heard this from "lots of women" themselves in some capacity, and aren't just assuming this whole thing.

[Jet Prower]

Yeah, it is wrong for guys to be bothering these girls about this. Never said that it is right for the guys to be staring and bothering the girls over the way they dressed. I would never condone guys that do that sort of thing. More the point of my thing is, that some girls are obviously going out trying to get this kind of attention due to the way they are dressed and it is going to attract these kind of people and make some assume certain things based on the way they are dressed. It one thing when you can tell someone is just out dressed nice for an evening and that is their comfortable clothes, and it is another when you see some girl with an attitude that is dressed like that and wiggling them around and such. Some girls honestly seem to be asking for the attention. Yes, many guys are creeps to be looking, but at the same time, girls can control this. If they don't want people staring at as much, as least dress in a nicer manner. You don't have to be completely covered up, but you can do things in a more tasteful manner usually.

[Tara]

Maybe you should stop being a jerk instead. Anyway, Jet is absolutely right. Lots of women dress the way they do because they want men to stare. Furthermore, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like staring at breasts, I find that they still distract me no matter where I'm looking unless they're completely out of my peripheral vision.

First, cut the attitude as you're making this debate a lot more heavy than it should be.

 

Second of all, it doesn't matter rather or not you like looking at them.  The fact that you can't look past them is your own fault.

 

Third, I guess no one's going to take anything I said about it not being exactly easy or comfortable to wear clothing that completely covers your bust, not to mention expensive?  Do lots of women dress that way because they want to be noticed!  Sure!  But does that mean it's the only reason?  Absolutely not.

[Tornado]

Okay. Next time someone makes a random aside in a post to take a shot at another member, they're getting striked. I don't give a shit what prior history you have with a member or how their viewpoints make you feel. This is basically a discussion about sexism, which is certainly an emotional topic for many; but Mechano, myself, Akito and Jet Prower have been discussing this for the past day and a half without calling people out.

 

 

Discuss it amicably or don't bother.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

What is "slutshaming"??

[Tara]

What is "slutshaming"??

Basically shaming people (mostly women, but "manslut shaming" is a rare thing too) because they dress or behave promiscuously, rather by their own fault or through factors beyond their control.

[Nepenthe]

Third, I guess no one's going to take anything I said about it not being exactly easy or comfortable to wear clothing that completely covers your bust, not to mention expensive?  Do lots of women dress that way because they want to be noticed!  Sure!  But does that mean it's the only reason?  Absolutely not.

 

Yeah, if you are a naturally big-busted woman- like my sister is- it can be rather difficult to find clothes that fit, are comfortable, and are not "revealing." Not a lot of companies make clothes that fit all three parameters. God help the woman with a big bust and a tiny waist.

 

What is "slutshaming"??

 

It is the act of morally shaming a person for behaviors that deviate from conservative or tasteful behavior, whether or not said behavior are actually harmful to the person or others. It can be applicable to men but is usually applied to women.