The Rouge the Bat topic

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I DO feel that from what I learned, I think people should becareful how they dress. But it can happen to people who dress good as well

[Jet Prower]

Akito, you have mentioned that girls aren't always comfortable wearing things that completely cover them up. How is that? Are you talking like, some girls have gotten so big, that things like tshirts and normal right under the neck shirts and such dont work for them anymore that they have to wear those low cut breast showing shirts instead?

[Uraraka]

 

Yeah, if you are a naturally big-busted woman- like my sister is- it can be rather difficult to find clothes that fit, are comfortable, and are not "revealing." Not a lot of companies make clothes that fit all three parameters. God help the woman with a big bust and a tiny waist.

  I can feel her pain. It is very hard. I  make up for It by wearing undershirts that help cover things up a little more, But it is certainly true... it is very hard .

[Dr. Mechano]

Yeah, it is wrong for guys to be bothering these girls about this. Never said that it is right for the guys to be staring and bothering the girls over the way they dressed. I would never condone guys that do that sort of thing. More the point of my thing is, that some girls are obviously going out trying to get this kind of attention due to the way they are dressed and it is going to attract these kind of people and make some assume certain things based on the way they are dressed. It one thing when you can tell someone is just out dressed nice for an evening and that is their comfortable clothes, and it is another when you see some girl with an attitude that is dressed like that and wiggling them around and such. Some girls honestly seem to be asking for the attention. Yes, many guys are creeps to be looking, but at the same time, girls can control this. If they don't want people staring at as much, as least dress in a nicer manner. You don't have to be completely covered up, but you can do things in a more tasteful manner usually.

 

Who defines "tasteful?" Casual dress in America is positively scandalous in many middle-eastern countries. On the other extreme, some parts of the world don't really have a taboo on female toplessness - at least in places like the beach, pool, etc. where men can be shirtless as well (which I honestly agree with, and no, it's not just because "huehuehue I'm a man and I want to see breasts"). My point is, "tasteful" attire is an incredibly subjective, societally-constructed concept that has no objective definition.

 

While ogling certainly knows no gender, this is largely rooted in sexism and does disproportionately affect women. Men can go completely topless without anyone so much as batting an eye, but a woman showing some cleavage (even if her breasts are largely covered) is labeled "slutty" and gets catcalls and stares. I think most decent people can surmise that this is messed up, and that it clearly shows some major societal issues with women. I'm very careful about what I label "sexism," but that is exactly what this kind of double-standard is. It's a problem, and stereotypes about appearance help perpetuate this problem.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, I believe that if women have every right to dress how they want with no shame, men have every right to look where they want with no shame (both within reason of course, such as in public areas and not private ones). You don't control either of the freedom of their actions if they're not hurting anyone.

What men don't have the right to do, however, is touch and judge women for the way they dress. That goes into harassment if unwanted.

[Splash the Otter]

First, cut the attitude as you're making this debate a lot more heavy than it should be.

That was not my intention.

 

 

Second of all, it doesn't matter rather or not you like looking at them.  The fact that you can't look past them is your own fault.

Excuse me? If I were able to avoid looking at them, don't you think I'd do that?

 

 

Third, I guess no one's going to take anything I said about it not being exactly easy or comfortable to wear clothing that completely covers your bust, not to mention expensive?  Do lots of women dress that way because they want to be noticed!  Sure!  But does that mean it's the only reason?  Absolutely not.

Not having your bust covered entirely is one thing. Accentuating it is another. I'm also fully aware that attention isn't the only reason for that style of dress.

[Nepenthe]

I DO feel that from what I learned, I think people should becareful how they dress. But it can happen to people who dress good as well

 

Well, you actually highlight the point women have been trying to make for years: any dressing advice is irrelevant for a lot of women in regards to whether or not they are harassed. In fact, most of the advice we get for avoiding this crime falls woefully short of being realistically effective, mainly because the more serious crimes happen from men we know (at which point, the avoidance advice would need to be extended to "avoid your male friends and family"). Heck, I've gotten catcalls and nearly sexually harassed for wearing a shirt and jeans and having my hair back in a pony tail, so frankly I'm tired of men telling me and other women what we're supposed to be doing instead of educating other men on how not to be assholes. xP

 

Excuse me? If I were able to avoid looking at them, don't you think I'd do that?

 

Can you not divert your eyes or turn your neck? This isn't rocket science; you literally can make yourself not stare at a woman.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Nepen-The Other Reindeer

[Uraraka]

Akito, you have mentioned that girls aren't always comfortable wearing things that completely cover them up. How is that? Are you talking like, some girls have gotten so big, that things like tshirts and normal right under the neck shirts and such dont work for them anymore that they have to wear those low cut breast showing shirts instead?

   I think that wearing tee shirts is good too, But it is not always the appropriate attire. If you are working in an office, you can't wear a tee shirt. But you can make up for issues with bustiness by wearing undershirts and such as I mentioned before. The hard part is, the clothes made to fit bigger women are intentionally designed that way. I think it is stupid myself . I like traditional styles better, but unfortunately, you can wear flattering (too much showing) clothes you can modify and make more modest, or giant square bag things (bleh! It breathes "old lady" for sure!)  Say thanks to the modern style designers

[Tara]

Akito, you have mentioned that girls aren't always comfortable wearing things that completely cover them up. How is that? Are you talking like, some girls have gotten so big, that things like tshirts and normal right under the neck shirts and such dont work for them anymore that they have to wear those low cut breast showing shirts instead?

Doesn't matter either way.  The breasts are sensitive area and having cloth constantly scraping against them (not to mention while they are forced into place with constrictive lingerie) isn't exactly the most comfortable thing.

 

 

Excuse me? If I were able to avoid looking at them, don't you think I'd do that?

You have control of your eyes just like a woman has control over her's.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

a whore is a whore no matter the dress. if they act like a whore they are a whore and I know many girls who are like that. I feel sorry for them :[

[Dr. Mechano]

a whore is a whore no matter the dress. if they act like a whore they are a whore and I know many girls who are like that. I feel sorry for them :[

What does a "whore" act like? Are these people offering sexual favors in exchange for money?

 

Because if not, that label is misapplied, to say the least.

[Tornado]

a whore is a whore no matter the dress. if they act like a whore they are a whore and I know many girls who are like that. I feel sorry for them :[

 

This post is Frank Miller approved.

[Splash the Otter]

You have control of your eyes just like a woman has control over her's.

Maybe, but I don't have control of my peripheral vision!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Okay. Next time someone makes a random aside in a post to take a shot at another member, they're getting striked. I don't give a shit what prior history you have with a member or how their viewpoints make you feel. This is basically a discussion about sexism, which is certainly an emotional topic for many; but Mechano, myself, Akito and Jet Prower have been discussing this for the past day and a half without calling people out. Discuss it amicably or don't bother.

Wait...was my calling the mindset shallow and judgemental out of line. Because i know i come off as aggressive, but the last thing I want is for someone to feel I'm name calling and provoking a fist fight here...

[Tara]

Maybe, but I don't have control of my peripheral vision!

You have control over how you react to it as well.

[Nepenthe]

This post is Frank Miller approved.

 

Since when does Frank Miller feel sorry for women though?

 

Maybe, but I don't have control of my peripheral vision!

 

Dude; you can physically choose to focus either in your immediate surroundings or focus in your peripheral. And unless a woman is right next to you, the only way you'd know if what she was wearing was too physically revealing is if you chose to look at her out of the side of your eyes. 

 

I cannot.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

What does a "whore" act like? Are these people offering sexual favors in exchange for money?

 

Because if not, that label is misapplied, to say the least.

people who sleep with the whole town and brag about it. I noticed that the people in America are verrry open about their sex life. Which is odd to me. That's not the problem, the problem is when you give yourself to every guy or girl that asks and it's not safe.

[Uraraka]

people who sleep with the whole town and brag about it. I noticed that the people in America are verrry open about their sex life. Which is odd to me. That's not the problem, the problem is when you give yourself to every guy or girl that asks and it's not safe.

   That is true for sure! It is very dangerous, and not a very valiant cause .  Yeah, I can agree that sometimes people can be a bit too open about it...

[Tara]

people who sleep with the whole town and brag about it. I noticed that the people in America are verrry open about their sex life. Which is odd to me. That's not the problem, the problem is when you give yourself to every guy or girl that asks and it's not safe.

While I certainly don't encourage that sort of thing, being a "whore" as you put it, is someone's own decision.  Being judgmental on the matter is just as bad as any kind of judgment.

[Tornado]

Since when does Frank Miller feel sorry for women though?

 

Duh. When whoreswhoreswhoreswhoreswhoreswhores.

[Chris]

I don't even know how this discussion began because Rouge has never had a remotely slutty outfit in any game (if you guys call her baseline design from Adventure 2 "slutty," I'd like you to promptly analyse the real world), but I think that the discussion should direct itself back to areas more related to Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

The discussion here is going to start turning sexist very soon if not, I think.

[Dr. Mechano]

people who sleep with the whole town and brag about it. I noticed that the people in America are verrry open about their sex life. Which is odd to me. That's not the problem, the problem is when you give yourself to every guy or girl that asks and it's not safe.

That is promiscuity, not prostitution. As "whore" is another word for prostitute, it implies some exchanging of money is going on, which... I dunno, I have no strong feelings about, but that isn't what you're describing, regardless.

 

But so what if they're promiscuous? Was it safe? Was it consensual? Was everyone involved a legal adult? If yes to the the previous three questions, why let someone else's sex life bother you? They'll do things their way, you'll do things your way.

 

I'm super-monogamous, and about the farthest thing from promiscuous one could imagine, but I still see no reason to be troubled by someone else's sex life. What consenting adults do in private shouldn't upset those who aren't involved, I think.

[Uraraka]

So, let's discuss her personality instead 

   I always thought Rouge was a bit mysterious in that, she often puts on a false front . For example: she acts flirty and a little careless about other people sometimes, but I think deep down inside she actually cares a lot about people. I think there may have been a deep scar in her heart from her past, and because of that she tries to hide her true self.  That is evident through  the series in the small ways she denies friends and tries her best to prove herself...but yet, she has heart enough to care deeply about Shadow, and defend Knuckles from Silver in Sonic Rivals 2 when silver gives them an attitude.  If Sega puts more of this into their games, I think she can prove herself to be a better character. I think that Rouge is useful to the series and that she should continue to be in it.

[Splash the Otter]

Wait...was my calling the mindset shallow and judgemental out of line. Because i know i come off as aggressive, but the last thing I want is for someone to feel I'm name calling and provoking a fist fight here...

I think it's more to do with my calling Dio a jerk.

 

Dude; you can physically choose to focus either in your immediate surroundings or focus in your peripheral. And unless a woman is right next to you, the only way you'd know if what she was wearing was too physically revealing is if you chose to look at her out of the side of your eyes. 

 

I cannot.

Believe me, I try to focus on something else. Most of the time it doesn't work and I end up having to look in another direction.

 

You can't what?

[Tara]

I think it's more to do with my calling Dio a jerk.

 

Believe me, I try to focus on something else. Most of the time it doesn't work and I end up having to look in another direction.

 

You can't what?

Chris has already said to drop this conversation.  So give it a rest.