Sega Says Sonic Audience Is Clearly On Nintendo Platforms, Not Xbox Or PlayStation

[Jet Prower]

I'd love to argue a lot of this, but this isn't really the thread for that. If you'd care to have a discussion about it, take it to the Wii U thread. I'd personally say that Nintendo's done a pretty good job of alienating their fanbase as well, though Microsoft's DRM fiasco and the Kinect are pretty awful too.

 

This is the right thread for this, because it was basically explaining why Nintendo and Sega go together well. They have relavant audience that are usually similiar to each other. That was the whole point of that little talk I just said above. Kids and people that have been around Nintendo are some of the biggest audiences of Nintendo and often those same people are likey audiences that are going to know the most about Sega Sonic games and be more likely to buy them in my opinion.

[Sami]

This is the right thread for this, because it was basically explaining why Nintendo and Sega go together well. They have relavant audience that are usually similiar to each other. That was the whole point of that little talk I just said above. Kids and people that have been around Nintendo are some of the biggest audiences of Nintendo and often those same people are likey audiences that are going to know the most about Sega Sonic games and be more likely to buy them in my opinion.

 

By this logic SEGA's best bet is to go iOS exclusive.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think it's important to note that we're talking the same kids who ironically play M rated games to ignorantly show that they're either "mature" or "cool" as a result.

[Jet Prower]

By this logic SEGA's best bet is to go iOS exclusive.

 

When the heck did I ever say that?

 

I dislike phone stuff anyway.

[Narukami07]

^That comparison doesn't even make sense given how your post was strictly referring to the core audience among the Sonic fanbase on Nintendo platforms.

 

I'd love to argue a lot of this, but this isn't really the thread for that. If you'd care to have a discussion about it, take it to the Wii U thread. I'd personally say that Nintendo's done a pretty good job of alienating their fanbase as well, though Microsoft's DRM fiasco and the Kinect are pretty awful too.

In regards to console third party support since N64, unfortunately yes. But for the Nintendo fanbase only? No freakin' way. XD But yes, it's best if we take Wii U only-related discussions to it's own board.

Also...

6th gen Sonic games sold best on PS2, which was the home console that vastly outsold its competitors and the one all the kids had.

Handheld Sonic games do awesome on Nintendo handhelds, which happen to be the handhelds that everyone and their grandmother owns.

7th gen Sonic games sold best on Wii, the system that all the kids have, that vastly outsold the competition.

 

Not saying that Nintendo's core fanbase doesn't shift towards Sonic more than Sony's or Microsoft's, but you know. Food for thought. Especially considering the Wii U is not exactly in a position to dominate the competitors this time around.

SA2 was also 6th gen game and it's port sold best on GC, a console significantly outsold by it's competition, which the article referenced. Your correct on Nintendo handhelds, but with the 3DS during it's terrible 1st year not everyone owned one yet compared to the 360/PS3, but that didn't stopped Generations 3DS for taking up most of it's sales compared to the console versions on systems with a higher userbase. Sega All Stars Racing Transformed on Wii U also preformed just fine.

PS Vita also had abysmal sales last year, and that alone did not stop Persona 4 Golden from performing well on it, even a game like Tokuidan-something Vita version outsold the PSP version in Japan weeks (or maybe a month or so) ago despite the Vita's hardware/software sales performing much worse than PSP.

Yep, but as said before, we must also take into consideration that the audience have an age over what console has the biggest userbase. Wii may have dominated the competition, but it's attach ratio outside of Nintendo 1st party IP (aside for a a few gems and Sonic) was terrible compared to the PS3/360's. Both of which have had sustained third party support from the beginning.

Just my two sense. (I'll add here though that i do wish for the Wii U to do well in the future, along with the PS4 which i know will do great, i'm getting both consoles so that it would be a win/win situation for my investment as i see fit!).

Edited September 26, 2013 by Narukami07

[Sami]

When the heck did I ever say that?

 

I dislike phone stuff anyway.

 

If we're targeting kids, then go for iOS. All the kids have iOS.

 

I don't like it either, nor do I like Nintendo exclusivity. Any exclusivity is crap, to be quite honest. Especially when they can do what they did with All Stars Racing Transformed and port it to fucking everything. 

 

I'll come up with another comparison for the sake of argument - if they're chasing the console that gets the most sales, make all future games Nintendo handheld exclusive. Wii U? Meh. System's not performing and a 3DS game will be cheaper to produce and outsell it exponentially.

 

^That comparison doesn't even make sense given how your post was strictly referring to the core audience among the Sonic fanbase on Nintendo platforms.

 

In regards to console third party support since N64, unfortunately yes. But for the Nintendo fanbase only? No freakin' way. XD But yes, it's best if we take Wii U only-related discussions to it's own board.

Also...

SA2 was also 6th gen game and it's port sold best on GC, a console significantly outsold by it's competition, which the article referenced. Your correct on Nintendo handhelds, but with the 3DS during it's terrible 1st year not everyone owned one yet compared to the 360/PS3, but that didn't stopped Generations 3DS for taking up most of it's sales compared to the console versions on systems with a higher userbase. Sega All Stars Racing Transformed on Wii U also preformed just fine.

PS Vita also had abysmal sales last year, and that alone did not stop Persona 4 Golden from performing well on it, even a game like Tokuidan-something Vita version outsold the PSP version in Japan weeks (or maybe a month or so) ago despite the Vita's hardware/software sales performing much worse than PSP.

Yep, but as said before, we must also take into consideration that the audience have an age over what console has the biggest userbase. Wii may have dominated the competition, but it's attach ratio outside of Nintendo 1st party IP (aside for a a few gems and Sonic) was terrible compared to the PS3/360's. Both of which have had sustained third party support from the beginning.

Just my two sense. (I'll add here though that i do wish for the Wii U to do well in the future, along with the PS4 which i know will do great, i'm getting both consoles so that it would be a win/win situation for my investment as i see fit!).

 

I'm not saying that Sonic games will do badly on Wii U, just that I wouldn't be surprised if the a huge factor of their success on Nintendo platforms in the past was a direct result of those consoles being the ones that "all the kids had" at the time. The 3DS wasn't selling gangbusters when Generations came out, but it wasn't doing badly either. It was performing well, a lot of kids had it, and the cheaper version of Generations sold well as a result. 

 

It's true that the majority of Sonic fans also happen to be Nintendo fans. Just look at this board. There is a lot of overlap, but my main point is that it isn't enough to warrant franchise exclusivity and the story may be different if the PS4 and Xbone vastly outsell the Wii U. 

 

In regards to the Persona comparison - you also have to keep in mind that Persona 4 is a budget port (a really damn good port that is my favorite game of all time, mind you) and came out with practically no competition on the system it was built for. There's also a big difference in audience; Sonic's target audience is children and generally people below the age of twenty, correct? Persona is rated M - evidence that the target audience is, at the very least, teenagers aged sixteen and above. Who is more likely to be able to invest in a console to play a game that they really want? Who is more likely to settle for an inferior port? 

 

The demographics are different, and you can't really predict them to act the same way. I bought my Vita to play Persona 4 Golden at launch, but I had to wait years after Sonic 06 came out to get the console it was on (I think I had my PS3 by the time Unleashed came out though), and if there had been an inferior PS2 version (much like the handheld ports of Sonic games tend to be) I probably would have gotten that. 

Edited September 27, 2013 by Discoid

[AzureHedgehog]

The happiness emotions in my body have increased 110%.

[Jet Prower]

If we're targeting kids, then go for iOS. All the kids have iOS.

 

I don't like it either, nor do I like Nintendo exclusivity. Any exclusivity is crap, to be quite honest. Especially when they can do what they did with All Stars Racing Transformed and port it to fucking everything. 

 

I'll come up with another comparison for the sake of argument - if they're chasing the console that gets the most sales, make all future games Nintendo handheld exclusive. Wii U? Meh. System's not performing and a 3DS game will be cheaper to produce and outsell it exponentially.

 

 

I would hope kids would know the differences between games and phone techy stuff sooner or later. While I play a bit of Sonic Dash, it is nothing but just a time waster. It isn't a game to me, nor is most of the other things on the phones and tablets. I wish that would go away honestly. I would definately not let my kids play the stuff or teach the difference between little phone games and real games.

 

 

So when it comes to the way you are talking about the WiiU, unless it sells really quick, just abandon it? Yeah that's now how it works in business. You are going to try everything you can to bring your system back and extend it for a long time to come. If you port the game to all the systems, whats  the motivation to get people to buy the WiiU version? Not as much as itwould be otherwise. Its just business. We give you money to stay here to cover some of your costs and you stay with us for awhile if we cover some of those costs. Thus, they don't have to sell as many most likely to turn a profit.

[Sami]

So when it comes to the way you are talking about the WiiU, unless it sells really quick, just abandon it? Yeah that's now how it works in business. You are going to try everything you can to bring your system back and extend it for a long time to come. If you port the game to all the systems, whats  the motivation to get people to buy the WiiU version? Not as much as itwould be otherwise. Its just business. We give you money to stay here to cover some of your costs and you stay with us for awhile if we cover some of those costs. Thus, they don't have to sell as many most likely to turn a profit.

 

The Wii U's success isn't SEGA's responsibility. Leave that to Nintendo.

 

If you're suggesting moneyhatting being the path to success then I'll just say that selling on about five different platforms is a better idea and leave it at that. There's a reason third party exclusives are rare nowadays.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Discoid

[Cyalume]

Especially when they can do what they did with All Stars Racing Transformed and port it to fucking everything. 

 

To be fair, the PC port of S&ASRT has a lot of problems. Scroll on through the Steam forums for the game, and you'll see what I mean. Its particularly bad with AMD cards. 

The one-button Sonic games I've played on iOS have been fantastic thus far (Though that isn't to say I wouldn't much rather play it on a platform with dedicated controls).

[Jet Prower]

The Wii U's success isn't SEGA's responsibility. Leave that to Nintendo.

 

If you're suggesting moneyhatting being the path to success then I'll just say that selling on about five different platforms is a better idea and leave it at that. There's a reason third party exclusives are rare nowadays.

 

I know it isn't Sega's responsibility, but why would they turn down money if Nintendo did offer them some to stay where they are at the moment? That would pretty much be spitting in their face is Sega said, oh that system is your responsibility and we dont care if we stay with you. That would be very poor business and likely result in a fallout between the two companies if someone said something like that.

 

Also, porting isn't super easy. You have to completely change the controls of the games and you also have to deal with the graphical and technological differences. Sticking to only one or two places means you dont have to worry about making the game work in several places at once. That is why I think this is a smart move for Sega. They stick to where they have been selling the best for awhile now, and it promotes buying a WiiU, because look what you can get here now.

[Sami]

I know it isn't Sega's responsibility, but why would they turn down money if Nintendo did offer them some to stay where they are at the moment? That would pretty much be spitting in their face is Sega said, oh that system is your responsibility and we dont care if we stay with you. That would be very poor business and likely result in a fallout between the two companies if someone said something like that.

 

Also, porting isn't super easy. You have to completely change the controls of the games and you also have to deal with the graphical and technological differences. Sticking to only one or two places means you dont have to worry about making the game work in several places at once. That is why I think this is a smart move for Sega. They stick to where they have been selling the best for awhile now, and it promotes buying a WiiU, because look what you can get here now.

 

You're severely overestimating the result of SEGA turning down a bribed exclusivity deal. They're not going to burn bridges if they decline on a business offer. 

 

Like you said - it's business.

 

Porting costs are a thing, yes, but right now cross-generation games are a big thing. Look at Watch_Dogs - it's on Wii U, PC, PS3, 360, PS4, and Xbone. That's a hell of a lot of systems, and no, I don't think they'll make as much money sticking with one system. I don't care which it is.

[Jet Prower]

You're severely overestimating the result of SEGA turning down a bribed exclusivity deal. They're not going to burn bridges if they decline on a business offer. 

 

Like you said - it's business.

 

Porting costs are a thing, yes, but right now cross-generation games are a big thing. Look at Watch_Dogs - it's on Wii U, PC, PS3, 360, PS4, and Xbone. That's a hell of a lot of systems, and no, I don't think they'll make as much money sticking with one system. I don't care which it is.

 

Well over in Japan, bribing is normal business, unlike in the US where it is illegal. I know they may not burn bridges and such, but it just seems to make more sense to me. If Nintendo is going to give them some money to make their game on their system, why wouldn't they? You would  turn it down and have to pay for everything yourself just so you can port things to all consoles? While yes, having on more consoles would be nice, it then pretty much negates the deal of trying to attract people to the WiiU at all.

[Sami]

Well over in Japan, bribing is normal business, unlike in the US where it is illegal. I know they may not burn bridges and such, but it just seems to make more sense to me. If Nintendo is going to give them some money to make their game on their system, why wouldn't they? You would  turn it down and have to pay for everything yourself just so you can port things to all consoles? While yes, having on more consoles would be nice, it then pretty much negates the deal of trying to attract people to the WiiU at all.

 

Making the Wii U attractive isn't SEGA's problem - it's Nintendo's. SEGA has nothing to gain unless the game is exclusive, in which case it's a gamble. Could be worth it, could not be.

 

It's not illegal by the way, lol. This is the games industry, not the government. Ever heard of "paid exclusives"? It's something that happens, but not often anymore. Timed exclusivity and exclusive content is something Microsoft is infamous for, though Sony's dabbled in it as well. It's business. 

 

None of us know the full details of the deal between SEGA and Nintendo; I'm merely saying that if we're looking purely at sales, they'll get a higher number if they keep Sonic multiplatform. I doubt we'll see a non-Nintendo exclusive, but I'd personally rather they not go for exclusivity at all. Unless they're being offered a crazy amount of cash (which I can't imagine Nintendo would give for Sonic of all things) I can't see how it's worth it considering the current state of the industry.

[Jet Prower]

Making the Wii U attractive isn't SEGA's problem - it's Nintendo's. SEGA has nothing to gain unless the game is exclusive, in which case it's a gamble. Could be worth it, could not be.

 

It's not illegal by the way, lol. This is the games industry, not the government. Ever heard of "paid exclusives"? It's something that happens, but not often anymore. Timed exclusivity and exclusive content is something Microsoft is infamous for, though Sony's dabbled in it as well. It's business. 

 

None of us know the full details of the deal between SEGA and Nintendo; I'm merely saying that if we're looking purely at sales, they'll get a higher number if they keep Sonic multiplatform. I doubt we'll see a non-Nintendo exclusive, but I'd personally rather they not go for exclusivity at all. Unless they're being offered a crazy amount of cash (which I can't imagine Nintendo would give for Sonic of all things) I can't see how it's worth it considering the current state of the industry.

 

Bribes in business are illegal in the US. Just not in other countries. Doing this in japan means nothing over here since it is two japanese companies. If two american companies were doing bribes, then they would be in serious trouble. This technically isn't a bribe though, but you get my point I hope.

 

But yeah, alot of this all depends on how much Nintendo gave Sega to stay exclusive to them. If Nintendo is picking up a good portion of the bill, can you blame Sega for sticking to exclusives with Nintendo? Nintendo makes the money back with console sales and Sega has to sell fewer copies to make a profit.

 

I know spreading them out to the other consoles is good too, but it really just all depends on unknowns we don't know. What is the break even point to taking the deal with nintendo and selling on there, or not taking the deal with nintendo and spreading to all platforms. Which would make them the better profit is just an unknown we don't know.

[Mick Mundy]

I'm just going to step in here from what Jet had mentioned earlier about not teaching kids phone games and console games. =P

 

I think your children will be missing out sorely on what has been a great blessing for my son. My son is 3 years old and plays games like Sonic CD, Sonic 4 (I&II) and his favourite, Sonic Dash. He's a small child and has a very small attention span, but will take the time to sit down and go as far as he can possibly go on Sonic Dash. So no. From my personal experience with my own child, having these games come out on iOS was an absolute brilliant thing. They took complicated games like Sonic All Stars Racing and made it into a simple little racing port on the iOS platform. It's fun for him and easy for him to understand.

 

Sonic games on the iOS has been a very good and motivating thing for my son. Especially with the Dash UP DOWN LEFT RIGHT swipes. It taught him the right directions real quick, especially when we sit down and say them together. Dohohohoho.

 

I have my phone everywhere with me, along with my iPad Mini, which means he can play on the go on car trips and other shenanigans that he and I plan out. I'm sorry that your iDevice experience has sucked, but mine and certainly my son's has not. Again, the gaming on iOS is awesome and would love more ports on it.

 

Point: My kid has a harder time playing something like Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations (Modern) than he does something like Sonic CD on iOS.

 

Oh, and uh, targeting small children like my son should be on iOS systems instead of Nintendo consoles. Large controllers, portability, options, etc. 

Edited September 27, 2013 by Tentenswift

[Jet Prower]

I'm just going to step in here from what Jet had mentioned earlier about not teaching kids phone games and console games. =P

 

I think your children will be missing out sorely on what has been a great blessing for my son. My son is 3 years old and plays games like Sonic CD, Sonic 4 (I&II) and his favourite, Sonic Dash. He's a small child and has a very small attention span, but will take the time to sit down and go as far as he can possibly go on Sonic Dash. So no. From my personal experience with my own child, having these games come out on iOS was an absolute brilliant thing. They took complicated games like Sonic All Stars Racing and made it into a simple little racing port on the iOS platform. It's fun for him and easy for him to understand.

 

Sonic games on the iOS has been a very good and motivating thing for my son. Especially with the Dash UP DOWN LEFT RIGHT swipes. It taught him the right directions real quick, especially when we sit down and say them together. Dohohohoho.

 

I have my phone everywhere with me, along with my iPad Mini, which means he can play on the go on car trips and other shenanigans that he and I plan out. I'm sorry that your iDevice experience has sucked, but mine and certainly my son's has not. Again, the gaming on iOS is awesome and would love more ports on it.

 

Point: My kid has a harder time playing something like Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations (Modern) than he does something like Sonic CD on iOS.

 

Oh, and uh, targeting small children like my son should be on iOS systems instead of Nintendo consoles. Large controllers, portability, options, etc. 

 

I know phones can be nice things yes. I started playing for myself when I was five, but before that I had parents and such playing and I would watch before being made to play for myself, starting with Super Mario World.

 

The main reason I sometimes have that dislike for the phone games is then people seem to grow up thinking that phone gaming is the main type of gaming, and that consoles and handhelds aren't something to be impressed by at all. That's why I often subscribe to that meaning of phone games aren't real games. They just aren't the same to me. What if these little downloadable phone games start taking over to where they want to kick out the consoles and handhelds in favor of these little ipad and phone games. I would pretty much drop out of gaming at that point. The same if gaming went all download, I would likely drop out for awhile.

 

 

This is a bit off topic now at this point though, so likely should get back on topic.

[Mr Loopone]

If Sega was thinking about just the money, then the game would be released on phones/tablets (even though most phones probably can't run the game at all or have a slow frame rate at the moment). It does seem to be a business decision between Sega and Nintendo since they both have supported quite well with each other. Also game consoles are in development before they get announced so Sega probably thought that the Wii U would be an option (presumably Sonic Lost World was in development when the Wii U was in development) due to the hype at the time. Well not as high as the Wii but they thought there would be a strong fan base to cover the cost but what happened after the console launch wasn't expected by Nintendo or Sega. Plus the Wii U has the same type of architecture as the Gamecube and the Wii (that itself is slightly enhanced Gamecube with motion controls) so for Sega, not only it would be fairly cheap to program but also they have mastered programming of that processor for the past 11 years. Sonic Team and Amusement Vision (Super Monkey Ball and F-Zero GX), plus 3rd party Now Production (Sonic Adventure DX, Super Mario Baseball GC and Wii, Sonic Riders, Sonic & the Secret Rings party mode) all did really well for the GC/Wii as well as Nintendo of course.

 

 

Also, porting isn't super easy. You have to completely change the controls of the games and you also have to deal with the graphical and technological differences. Sticking to only one or two places means you dont have to worry about making the game work in several places at once. That is why I think this is a smart move for Sega. They stick to where they have been selling the best for awhile now, and it promotes buying a WiiU, because look what you can get here now.

 

Porting isn't easy if the architecture is different compared to the others. The PS4, Xbox One and the PC all use the x86-64 [x86-32 might still be used on PC] architecture compared to the Wii U, however the Wii U is more closer to the 360 (and GC/Wii) in terms of programming. For Western 3rd parties, that is why they have gone for these consoles and sticking to the PC since the only differences would be the speed of the CPU, the speed of the GPU plus a couple of differences in terms of memory. PC is harder since there are more variations compared to the consoles; like whether they have an Intel or AMD processor and the speed/type of one, whether they have a Nvidia or an AMD graphics card and the type of one plus memory and other PC factors as well. Basically that means the programming be the same and saves time (the PC version often include the controls for the 360/Xbone versions anyway) when compared to doing that plus programming on the Wii U that might be from scratch if the developer hasn't worked on the system or the engine hasn't been used. Since games are really cutting down in terms of 360/PS3 versions, as a consequence that means that there are also going to be less Wii U versions. That is why Activision is supporting the Wii U since their previous teams worked on the Wii such as Treyarch and Toys for Bob, same thing for Ubisoft mostly... Warner Bros. is more of an oddity since they didn't really support the Wii, however Warner Bros. probably had the same business contract as Midway who did support the N64, GC and the Wii fairly strongly. Then again how long will Activision, Ubisoft and Warner Bros. support the Wii U for? Until the end of the PS3/360? Slightly longer or shorter?

 

On top of this, the Wii U also has a Gamepad and Nintendo pretty much requires the Gamepad to be used plus any other controls such as the Pro Controller and the Wii Remote that resorts in more programming compared to the other systems and it takes a long time especially if they have to port an engine from scratch as well and the developers don't have much time so features get dropped (some really major such as online multiplayer, others just one mode). So yeah by Western companies, they wouldn't do this on the Wii U. Sega? Well it depends on how much of the Japanese side has developed on the PC and whether they have PS4 or Xbone games coming out in the future since a majority of Japanese developers are behind in terms of development and have settled to PowerPC or ARM [mobile, 3DS, Vita] comfortably. (I think that's why Platinum Games are working on Wii U games so they don't have to change from PowerPC to x86)
 

[WarioBone]

What's everyone freaking the fuck out about?

 

They literally stated a fact and nothing else.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

What's everyone freaking the fuck out about?

 

They literally stated a fact and nothing else.

They state fact. We share reflection on said fact.

 

Freaking out about things comes naturally with the reflection.

[Jet Prower]

I had just simply been stating why I didn't think it was a bad thing for there to currently be a sega/nintendo deal at the moment, since I thought they would both benefit for it was all.

[Harley Quinn]

More of a Sony fan than a Nintendo fan, m'self. I quite love my Xbox, while my Wii only gets used for Netflix and some occasional GC games.

But it's probably good for a SEGA/Nintendo deal to occur.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Dr. Harleen Quinzel

[Doc]

I know that Sonic performs well better on nintendo platforms, and even though I prefer Nintendo over Sony and Microsoft, I still think most , if not all, sonic mainstream games should be multiplatform. How bout making a Sonic Adventure-esque game so that it can appeal to fans that are also fans of sony and/or microsoft, or for people who would like to enter the series? As long as they don't screw it up, I think that direction is great because it has a more mixed audience in my opinion.

[Chaos Incarnate]

I don't really agree with this. What's wrong with going multiplatform? I understand Colors was Nintendo exclusive and sold better than Generations, but now that the Wii U is on par with current gen consoles, you don't have to screw over Sony and Microsoft console owners. :0

[Tornado]

This thread is now sadly ironic.