Can character inclusions (besides Sonic) now work with SLW's gameplay?

[Radrappy]

Even ignoring your facetiousness, I don't know why people get upset or angry that others are upset that their favorite characters don't show up anymore, as if there's something wrong with actually liking other characters a lot. People literally can't be disappointed about the casting decisions nowadays without someone swooping in to tell them that somehow this disappointment is misplaced or misguided or melodramatic. That in and of itself is kind of dickish.

 

If I had to come up with a reason as to why this happens so often It would that it's a clash in fundamental priorities.  To many, the only thing that matters is the quality of the title.  To others the game could be broken 12 ways from sunday but as long as mighty the armadillo is playable, they'd be happy.  Plenty managed to wrangle enjoyment out of 06 after all.  

 

It's hard to reconcile something so basic as this but I will refrain from being so snarky in the future though and understand that everyone wants something different from the franchise.  

[Sparky]

True, I don't have a problem with it, I just can't visualise it in my head, and whenever I do it just looks weird to me xD

Have you NEVER seen Knuckles drill moves?

[thatguyfrom03]

if multiple characters were playable, I feel that only Sonic should use parkour.

 

1. It's Sonic's thing. Whats separated him from many other "speedy" characters in general with how he interacts with his environment. I can only imagine Sonic having the style to pull off what he did in the Sonic CD intro.

2. We don't want another Sonic+ situation like S3&K. Keeping pace with parkour makes up for his lack of horizontal and aerial movement.

 

Sonic Team is just scared of the backlash from earlier games. That's really all there is to not having the characters yet. Lost World has a perfect template for more characters. I'm indifferent since I only played as Sonic anyways since the first one lol

 

I'm ok with the wisps being taken out. I love Colors and was a fan of them returning. However  its simply expecting too much for Sonic Team to develop a brand new gameplay style, as well as expand on the Color powers, in ADDITION to shoehorning them in for a console exclusive gimmick. They end up creating half-assed wisps like Eagle and Beat, and not developing the original wisps like the Laser in a meaningful way.

[Sparky]

if multiple characters were playable, I feel that only Sonic should use parkour.

 

1. It's Sonic's thing. Whats separated him from many other "speedy" characters in general with how he interacts with his environment. I can only imagine Sonic having the style to pull off what he did in the Sonic CD intro.

2. We don't want another Sonic+ situation like S3&K. Keeping pace with parkour makes up for his lack of horizontal and aerial movement.

 

Sonic Team is just scared of the backlash from earlier games. That's really all there is to not having the characters yet. Lost World has a perfect template for more characters. I'm indifferent since I only played as Sonic anyways since the first one lol

 

I'm ok with the wisps being taken out. I love Colors and was a fan of them returning. However  its simply expecting too much for Sonic Team to develop a brand new gameplay style, as well as expand on the Color powers, in ADDITION to shoehorning them in for a console exclusive gimmick. They end up creating half-assed wisps like Eagle and Beat, and not developing the original wisps like the Laser in a meaningful way.

Parkour was brought in to keep flow. Why strip that benefit from everyone else and have them all run into walls and obstacles and break the flow?

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

Parkour was brought in to keep flow. Why strip that benefit from everyone else and have them all run into walls and obstacles and break the flow?

 

It's been said a lot already. Giving everyone else the ability of Sonic's flow suddenly makes him seem barebones compared to the rest of the crew. Sure, everybody's acrobatic and not just Sonic can pull this sort of thing off. But Sonic's the one that it makes the most sense with from a gameplay perspective. He's the only one that primarily needs the increase in speedy flow.

[thatguyfrom03]

Parkour was brought in to keep flow. Why strip that benefit from everyone else and have them all run into walls and obstacles and break the flow?

 

Tails can fly over said obstacles, and Knuckles can climb up said obstacles. SLW was made with Sonic in mind, and Sonic has always moved like this is cutscenes and whatnot. Think of Sonic The Movie how Tails and Knuckles would fly everywhere while Sonic would vault on building structures to cover the same ground. Its his signature movement finally being put into gameplay practice.

[Straw Hat]

I'd rather the Parkour be exclusive to Speed Characters. Characters like Tails and Knuckles wouldn't really need it because they can use aerial maneuvers to get to hidden areas, while Speed Characters don't.

[VGamer]

I think it should be given to them, but to a lesser extent. Maybe give them parkour so that they can skip over annoying rocks and ledges in the way, but not give them wall running, spindashing up a wall, etc. Just enough so that the point of there being a parkour system in the first place isn't nullified with the addition of new characters.

[Sparky]

Tails can fly over said obstacles, and Knuckles can climb up said obstacles. SLW was made with Sonic in mind, and Sonic has always moved like this is cutscenes and whatnot. Think of Sonic The Movie how Tails and Knuckles would fly everywhere while Sonic would vault on building structures to cover the same ground. Its his signature movement finally being put into gameplay practice.

Sonic OVA and Sonic CD were 1 of my first thoughts when seeing the teaser trailer for SLW. 

 

What I'm mostly saying is that if it's been implemented to keep flow, then it should be something everyone should have. Visually, Tails would obviously fly over ledges and stuff, but gameplay-wise everyone should be able to use parkour and move through the environment at high speed. 

 

And Parkour being Parkour, and being something that physically exists in the real world and not impossible to learn, I see NO reason what-so-ever why Sonic's friends, ESPECIALLY Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Rouge, and Epsio, wouldn't be able to.

 

I think it should be given to them, but to a lesser extent. Maybe give them parkour so that they can skip over annoying rocks and ledges in the way, but not give them wall running, spindashing up a wall, etc. Just enough so that the point of there being a parkour system in the first place isn't nullified with the addition of new characters.

With Knuckles, Rouge, Vector, Espio and Shadow's existence, your point is invalid.

[Indigo Rush]

Well... Knuckles, Rouge and Vector never ran across walls or spin-dashed up and around them. They climbed with their hands, which is a different kind of mechanic. Unlike Sonic and Shadow, there's no danger of falling off if they stay idle. The trade-off is not being able to traverse the walls quickly. It's more suited for vertical affairs, as opposed to Sonic's forward dashes.

 

When Shadow wall-ran, if you could even call it that, it was for a very short period of time. There were no mechanics in place for him to pick up speed while sticking to a wall, aside from a triangle jump; I assume the issue is his air skates wouldn't work across a vertical surface without any previously gained momentum. This makes Shadow's wall mechanics from his titular game fundamentally different from Sonic's in Lost World, and ultimately less effective.

 

As for Espio, he's different altogether - in Chaotix, not only could he run up walls, he could simply stand on them without any fear of falling off. Ceilings too. It's like Sonic 4's physics on steroids. This removes the necessity of maintaining a set momentum value for sticking to the wall, again making him different from Sonic.

 

You can have other characters interact with walls in different ways without imposing on Sonic's unique mechanics. The only character that I listed that would outmatch or nullify Sonic's parkour is Espio, and in all honesty, the likelihood of him becoming playable in the near future is slim-to-none, let alone one that involves the parkour mechanics.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Sparky]

Well... Knuckles, Rouge and Vector never ran across walls or spin-dashed up and around them. They climbed with their hands, which is a different kind of mechanic. Unlike Sonic and Shadow, there's no danger of falling off if they stay idle. The trade-off is not being able to traverse the walls quickly. It's more suited for vertical affairs, as opposed to Sonic's forward dashes.

 

When Shadow wall-ran, if you could even call it that, it was for a very short period of time. There were no mechanics in place for him to pick up speed while sticking to a wall, aside from a triangle jump; I assume the issue is his air skates wouldn't work across a vertical surface without any previously gained momentum. This makes Shadow's wall mechanics from his titular game fundamentally different from Sonic's in Lost World, and ultimately less effective.

 

As for Espio, he's different altogether - in Chaotix, not only could he run up walls, he could simply stand on them without any fear of falling off. Ceilings too. It's like Sonic 4's physics on steroids. This removes the necessity of maintaining a set momentum value for sticking to the wall, again making him different from Sonic.

 

You can have other characters interact with walls in different ways without imposing on Sonic's unique mechanics. The only character that I listed that would outmatch or nullify Sonic's parkour is Espio, and in all honesty, the likelihood of him becoming playable in the near future is slim-to-none, let alone one that involves the parkour mechanics.

For Knuckles, Rouge and Vector, when using Parkour as them, the wall-running should be simply replaced with the climbing. Shadow should still be able to wall-run since he can turn his air-skates on and off at will, and even in Heroes, Espio was able to stick to walls indefinitely while Sonic and Shadow fell off after a moment.

[VGamer]

With Knuckles, Rouge, Vector, Espio and Shadow's existence, your point is invalid.

 

What do you mean? You mean when I said spin-dashing? I meant spin-dashing up a wall to extent parkour time, which Sonic can do. I guess Shadow and Espio could have it along with their own spin on things, but why would the others? Rouge can glide and climb, and Vector can punch stuff (I guess?).

[SenEDDtor Missile]

When Shadow wall-ran, if you could even call it that, it was for a very short period of time. There were no mechanics in place for him to pick up speed while sticking to a wall, aside from a triangle jump; I assume the issue is his air skates wouldn't work across a vertical surface without any previously gained momentum. This makes Shadow's wall mechanics from his titular game fundamentally different from Sonic's in Lost World, and ultimately less effective.

I kinda picture Shadow as being able to wall-run, but only for a really short period of time since his air-skates don't have the same traction as Sonics shoes. Additionally, I would have modified him to not have a homing attack, but allow him to throw homing Chaos Bolts, and give him a short range air-burst/dash/hover using his air-skates to compensate for his lack of a homing attack. Then again, my mental image of Shadow is that of a glass cannon, but that is just me.

[Indigo Rush]

For Knuckles, Rouge and Vector, when using Parkour as them, the wall-running should be simply replaced with the climbing. Shadow should still be able to wall-run since he can turn his air-skates on and off at will, and even in Heroes, Espio was able to stick to walls indefinitely while Sonic and Shadow fell off after a moment.

 

I'm merely relaying to you what has occurred in the past. Shadow may be able to turn his skates on at will, but for whatever reason he seemed to have forgotten how to do that in his own game.

 

Meaning there's something about his skates you need to take into account.

 

A flaw, if you will.

 

As for Knuckles and Rouge, the mechanics for climbing are a different beast altogether. Don't forget the original reason why the parkour was implemented in the first place: it was not simply to be cool and run along walls, but because of the problem of Sonic and co. crashing into walls and breaking the flow of speed. The way that Knuckles' and Rouge's climbing mechanics function are fundamentally different from running up to a wall at a 90 degree angle. 

 

It's a pretty well-established and consistent quirk that they need to glide or jump onto a wall before they can stick to it. Walking into a wall wouldn't do a thing except put them at a dead stop; and even if you were to add it to their programming to run headfirst into a wall or a tree and to activate their climbing function, it would still put them at a dead stop, because the way their climbing abilities work was never automated - you just stick there until you climb up the wall.... slowly.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Sparky]

I'm merely relaying to you what has occurred in the past. Shadow may be able to turn his skates on at will, but for whatever reason he seemed to have forgotten how to do that in his own game.

 

Meaning there's something about his skates you need to take into account.

 

A flaw, if you will.

 

As for Knuckles and Rouge, the mechanics for climbing are a different beast altogether. Don't forget the original reason why the parkour was implemented in the first place: it was not simply to be cool and run along walls, but because of the problem of Sonic and co. crashing into walls and breaking the flow of speed. The way that Knuckles' and Rouge's climbing mechanics function are fundamentally different from running up to a wall at a 90 degree angle. 

 

It's a pretty well-established and consistent quirk that they need to glide or jump onto a wall before they can stick to it. Walking into a wall wouldn't do a thing except put them at a dead stop; and even if you were to add it to their programming to run headfirst into a wall or a tree and to activate their climbing function, it would still put them at a dead stop, because the way their climbing abilities work was never automated - you just stick there until you climb up the wall.... slowly.

I'm thinking of for the characters that climb, once they run into a wall and "attach" to it, they'd already be climbing since you'd already be holding the analog stick/directional buttons forward.

[Celestia]

I could see a few other characters having parkour, but perhaps it could work different and/or have different strengths and weaknesses than Sonic's own. For example, in what we've seen of Lost World, Sonic can run horizontally on a wall with little issue, but he's a lot more limited when running straight up a wall. Maybe, say, Shadow, could be the opposite--he'd be able to go up a wall easier, but wall running would be more limited.

 

Just an idea, I guess. But for the most part parkour should be an ability just for the "Speed types", to use Heroes terminology. The characters that don't fit with that group tend to have abilities that would make parkour a bit redundant, but I guess I wouldn't object to it. It'd just be a bit silly for Tails to have it when he could just fly XP

Edited September 30, 2013 by ElementofChaos

[Indigo Rush]

I'm thinking of for the characters that climb, once they run into a wall and "attach" to it, they'd already be climbing since you'd already be holding the analog stick/directional buttons forward.

 

Yes, but try to picture it in your head.

 

Sonic runs into a wall, Sonic runs up a wall.

 

Knuckles runs into a wall, Knuckles takes his sweet time admiring the flowers as he climbs up a wall.

 

The flow is just as broken if Knuckles didn't stick to the wall at all.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Sparky]

Yes, but try to picture it in your head.

 

Sonic runs into a wall, Sonic runs up a wall.

 

Knuckles runs into a wall, Knuckles takes his sweet time admiring the flowers as he climbs up a wall.

 

The flow is just as broken if Knuckles didn't stick to the wall at all.

In my head, Knuckles (and other climbers) are climbing much faster then they would in the past. About as fast as their running speed. 

 

Also, Knuckles had some sort of wall-spin dash in the advance games.

I could see a few other characters having parkour, but perhaps it could work different and/or have different strengths and weaknesses than Sonic's own. For example, in what we've seen of Lost World, Sonic can run horizontally on a wall with little issue, but he's a lot more limited when running straight up a wall. Maybe, say, Shadow, could be the opposite--he'd be able to go up a wall easier, but wall running would be more limited.

 

Just an idea, I guess. But for the most part parkour should be an ability just for the "Speed types", to use Heroes terminology. The characters that don't fit with that group tend to have abilities that would make parkour a bit redundant, but I guess I wouldn't object to it. It'd just be a bit silly for Tails to have it when he could just fly XP

I can imagine Tails using parkour. At the very least, He'd be propeller dashing on the wall. He did have those wall jump things like Sonic in Sonic Adventure.

[Indigo Rush]

Please enlighten me on how to use it, because I don't recall that ever being utilized in any 3 Advance games.

 

Same goes for that little factoid about Espio sticking to a wall indefinitely in Sonic Heroes. I have never seen it in action.

 

And if Knuckles' climbing speed is the same as his running speed, then what the heck is the point - why bother keeping the rest of the climbing mechanics? It may as well be exactly the same as Sonic's at that point.

 

You can't just dish it out to everyone and make up new rules on the fly - if Knuckles' climbing ability didn't exist until the Adventure games and had never been seen since then, it'd be much easier for you to throw such an idea out there, but the climbing function, with it's basic speed and movement patterns, has been established since Sonic & Knuckles. You can't up and change that in one game, especially if it's near-identical to Sonic to begin with! There needs to be a compromise, and letting Knuckles stick to a wall indefinitely isn't it. That gives him yet another edge above Sonic, which is going against the entire point of what we're trying to do - attempting to fit other characters into the SLW/parkour gameplay formula without completely gimping Sonic by comparison.

 

 

 

I can imagine Tails using parkour. At the very least, He'd be propeller dashing on the wall. He did have those wall jump things like Sonic in Sonic Adventure.

Okay, I've been playing and re-playing Sonic Adventure since it debuted on the Dreamcast and I can confirm that this is not a thing.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Diogenes]

Please enlighten me on how to use it, because I don't recall that ever being utilized in any 3 Advance games.

It was a particular combination of characters in Advance 3, I think. I want to say it was with Amy...? e: just checked, yeah, it's Knuckles+Amy

Same goes for that little factoid about Espio sticking to a wall indefinitely in Sonic Heroes. I have never seen it in action.

Pretty sure he can do this, yeah. There's just not much reason to. Edited September 30, 2013 by Diogenes

[Komodin]

Yeah, character balance is really something that you gotta take into account for this sort of thing. One problem that even games like Sonic 3 and Knuckles had to some degree is that, with aerially mobile characters like Tails, Cream (in the Advance games, natch) and Knuckles, Sonic himself looked rather weaksauce in comparison -- something you really don't want happening to what is to be the main draw of the series. Now, how to actually go about balancing things out so that no character looks so blatantly inferior to one another...

[Celestia]

They could always have certain surfaces that Knuckles can't climb on but Sonic can just run all over.

 

I can't think of a way to keep Tails from breaking everything, though. Maybe if you play as him there's a lot more obstacles in the sky or something? Eh...

[VGamer]

Same goes for that little factoid about Espio sticking to a wall indefinitely in Sonic Heroes. I have never seen it in action.

 

He could. If you homing attacked a wall, Espio could stick on it forever and wouldn't fall off like Sonic and Shadow would.

 

As for Knuckles sticking to a wall when he runs into it, I don't think that's how it should be done at all. That forces the player to either have to climb the wall, or jump off of it, which wastes time and defeats the purpose of the idea in the first place. 

[Indigo Rush]

Uh... exactly. It's supposed to sound stupid because it is stupid. I was at no point suggesting it, I was challenging the idea.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Kuzu]

So here's an idea, if the problem is simply flow; then have breakable walls that Knuckles can just plow through at full speed to keep things going. better yet, map his drill button to Sonic's spin dash, when Knuckles collides with a wall, he'll just simply dig through it and out the other side or depending on the structure, take him to a different part of the area entirely. 

 

For Tails? Just have his parkour be similar to Sonic's, but he tires out faster and his flying is apart of his stamina.

 

 

For everyone else, look I think its pretty obvious that we should follow the Speed, Flight, Power setup for the sake of consistency.