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I don't get it...Archie is pretty much under absolute fucking insane scrutiny these days when it comes to character designs, even being forced to change the SatAM characters to look more fitting among the SEGA cast...and then this goes and turns Knuckles into some giant monster.

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Not really.

Yeah, really.

"Where is in-game the proof that Knuckles has individual fingers".

Proof is provided, including an in game sprite and a comparison to the other echidnas in the games themselves.

"No, that doesn't count because there's no proof those fingers aren't conjoined."

 

You're going to seriously tell me that that isn't just you trying a bit hard?

 

 

The sprite also has distinct toe bones, but we know Sonic characters don't have separate toes.

And there's proof of that. Where is the proof of the freaky mutant hands as opposed to boxing gloves with metal in them (or any other explanation, really) to justify your argument (and the entire line of discussion), exactly?

 

Because:

So Tails has tails, Big is big, and Silver is silver, but Knuckles does not, in fact, have knuckles. Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

I hope you've got a bit more than that.

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I don't understand why people aren't allowed to dislike a design on first glance because it is different to the point of disavowing the original shape and some of trademarks of the original design, though.

 

And it is quite unjustified, because no one who likes it has really put forth a convincing argument on why these changes were needed to hammer point the home that this is a comedy series when the current designs exist just as well within a comedic context. Fair enough if you like Knuckles' new looks, but I don't see the agency in having to change him up to this degree. My animator's intuition though is that such a huge change is going to be reflected in his personality, as is Tails' wrench being so visible directly linked to his affinity with machines. And when I go that route, I don't get good feelings for ol' Red.

 

Because it gives me real "Green Eyes" vibes, and like I said; its not the criticism for the design itself that I have a problem with, but rather with how everyone has worded their criticisms.

 

 

And I don't recall saying I like the designs, in fact I'm completely apathetic until I get something more concrete to formulate a proper opinion. I just commentating on everyone's kneejerk reactions to them.

 

 

That said, if Sega are smart they will change this, because like you said, I don't see much of a reason for a design change in the first place.

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2014 is still a ways to go. For all we know, those could be early designs and they could end up being changed by then.

And that's why it needs to be established now that the redesigns are crap, while there's still time to rectify it.

 

Not that Sega will listen to us or anything. XP

Edited by Akito

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So Tails has tails, Big is big, and Silver is silver, but Knuckles does not, in fact, have knuckles. Sorry, I don't buy it.

A knuckle is the joint of a finger, not a spike on the back of your hand. He's called Knuckles because he uses his fists in combat. But if you're going to persist in this nonsense, please explain why Vector isn't a straight line, or why Rouge's fur is white instead of red.

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I honestly don't even give a fuck if they show off his fingers. My main issue is that they've gone and changed his entire body structure so that it's comparable to Tiny Tiger from the Crash Bandicoot series. You know, the same Tiny Tiger that was a dim witted muscle head.

 

A "comedy" series with that sort of Knuckles? All signs point to dim witted muscle head. That's not something I want to watch.

 

I'm not saying that Knuckles absolutely, 100% guaranteed has fused fingers. But that sprite doesn't prove that he doesn't, because of the toes. Fused fingers is still a valid option.

This argument only works in retrospect. You're implying that the same design principles used to make that skeleton in 1994 are somehow 100% related to the redesigns the whole cast got in 1998 for Sonic Adventure.

Edited by Chooch

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I think what's most annoying here is that in the past 20some years in the series' history, they have at least strongly established a design to stick with. Barring the changes from the Classic era to the Adventure era and the Western Robotnik design changes, the design of Sonic and co. has been consistent.

 

See, Sonic, Tails and Amy, even if they have some clothing and a few small physical changes, they still stick to the same physical structure (even Sonic had a backpack in SatAM and Knuckles had a hat in the OVA). Knuckles, in this instance, takes that well-established design standard and tosses it out of the window and gives him a buff bod in place of what he's had since he first debuted.

 

What concerns me is that Takashi Iizuka is greenlighting it, the guy who's responsible for maintaining a high level of brand consistency. When he became the head of Sonic Team, this is what he said his goal was... and seeing Knuckles makes it look like he doesn't really care that much after all.

 

Or it could just be another translation niggle. But my point still stands - characters change over time, but man never has it changed that much.

 

It doesn't help that Knuckles hasn't been treated well lately, either. He hasn't exactly been portrayed as a respectable ally as much as a comic foil to Sonic, Tails and Amy as the gullible strong guy.

Edited by Indigo Rush

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Because it gives me real "Green Eyes" vibes, and like I said; its not the criticism for the design itself that I have a problem with, but rather with how everyone has worded their criticisms.

 

 

And I don't recall saying I like the designs, in fact I'm completely apathetic until I get something more concrete to formulate a proper opinion. I just commentating on everyone's kneejerk reactions to them.

 

Reacting to a complete body style change in a character and the loss of his trademark boxing gloves isn't even remotely comparable to "green eyes-" which was a minute criticism from one person on this forum blown out of proportion. One is generally more fair game, the other is a meme.

 

I also wasn't referring to specifically you when I said it's fair enough if anyone Knuckles' new design.

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I don't get it...Archie is pretty much under absolute fucking insane scrutiny these days when it comes to character designs, even being forced to change the SatAM characters to look more fitting among the SEGA cast...and then this goes and turns Knuckles into some giant monster.

 

^This. seriously now Archie has a case next time SEGA starts bitching and mandating about character designs.

It is bullshit to give one part of the franchise so much shit then give another part all the freedom they want to redesign core characters.

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I think what's most annoying here is that in the past 20some years in the series' history, they have at least strongly established a design to stick with. Barring the changes from the Classic era to the Adventure era and the Western Robotnik design changes, the design of Sonic and co. has been consistent.

 

See, Sonic, Tails and Amy, even if they have some clothing and a few small physical changes, they still stick to the same physical structure (even Sonic had a backpack in SatAM and Knuckles had a hat in the OVA). Knuckles, in this instance, takes that well-established design standard and tosses it out of the window and gives him a buff bod in place of what he's had since he first debuted.

 

What concerns me is that Takashi Iizuka is greenlighting it, the guy who's responsible for maintaining a high level of brand consistency. When he became the head of Sonic Team, this is what he said his goal was... and seeing Knuckles makes it look like he doesn't really care that much after all.

 

Or it could just be another translation niggle. But my point still stands - characters change over time, but man never has it changed that much.

 

It doesn't help that Knuckles hasn't been treated well lately, either. He hasn't exactly been portrayed as a respectable ally as much as a comic foil to Sonic, Tails and Amy as the gullible strong guy.

 

 

I wonder if this is what Classic Fans felt like when the Dreamcase era rolled around.

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               Oh dear... a whole year for sonic fans to talk about why knuckles is on steroids? In just a couple of hours this topic is 19 pages full of discussion on it. As this is written 11 replies has been added. Imagine the number of pages it will have a year from now! This is not going to end well...blink.png (Puts on shoes to run to the hills).

              Just kiddingtongue.png !

              In all seriousness though, I was a little disturbed by knuckles silhouette too. I don't like the direction his design has taken. He looks like a big and storm hybrid. But the show is going to premiere a long time from now. Its probably still in development. So I'm just going to wait to pass judgment until I get more information on it. 

           (Runs to the hills. ZOOM!ph34r.png

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I'm not saying that Knuckles absolutely, 100% guaranteed has fused fingers. But that sprite doesn't prove that he doesn't, because of the toes. Fused fingers is still a valid option.

 

Not for the purposes of this discussion it isn't.

 

 

He might have fused fingers and those spikes might be part of his hands rather than both things just being a part of his gloves is not a sufficient justification for some of the sentiment being thrown around, because it's arguing that something about the silhouette is wrong when there's no proof that it actually is. If he has his regular mitten gloves, but occasionally you can see the fingers under them (which could still be the case based on the silhouette shown), only the most anal retentive will get hung up on it and they wouldn't have a case for why to begin with.

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Well it might influence the series!

 

Someone... please. Tell me, what part of this.

 

 

 

 

Influenced the main series?

 

In fact what part of any cartoon show has ever influenced the series?

 

 

 

Well there was the voice actor change!

 

They've just had a huge voice actor change! And lets not forget the very sad news that was Dean Bristow passed away and had to be replaced by Mike who also had to audition along with the 4kids guys.

 

And anyway, we've already been told that most of the cast are voicing their characters, suspicions are Mike has his role given his facebook page right now, you honeslty think Roger won't be Sonic?

 

I would place bets on Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Robotnik having their official voice actors, anyone else is likely to be subbed just purely because it's more cost effective for what are 11 min 1 shots.

 

 

 

Well shadow got a new power!

 

And did it do anything other than make us go. "Oh look darling! Shadow has a new power!"

 

What exactly are people afraid of? Is Sonic gonna be wearing a jacket in the games, lol no. For starters it means more work for the annimation team. Is knuckles going to look like an Ogre in the games, lol no.

 

They are 11 min long shorts comissioned by Sega of America, and considering how well SOA and SOJ alegedly get along, we all know how likely an SOA design choice is when it comes to main game impact.

 

They're not going to do anything to impact the main series.

 

And if anything I've just said ends up happening I will be too busy laughing at the fallout to care anyway!

The only thing to really be aghast about is Ogre Knuckles, and even then, you really think SOJ will use that design?

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That was a long catch up and I fucking hate the like quota more than ever (seriously what purpose does that serve)

 

So far what I saw was

  • Eddie LeBron is a hypocrite
  • This is going to kill the franchise
  • We aren't allowed to talk over the exact same goddamn thing we talked about when the Deadly Six silouettes were revealed just because we're not being positive
  • The possibillity of a hilariously terrible Rouge re-design
  • Debate about the existence of phalanges 

 

I think it's too soon to say anything about how this'd affect the games, though I can see where the concern comes from.

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As someone who's behind these new character designs, I can definitely agree that the changes are not necessary. I can't defend that. Nepenthe had a great point that you can still convey a character's personality/traits and the comedic tone of the show with the existing character designs, so to over-exaggerate them to further emphasize that really isn't needed. It's just... friggin' Knuckles, man. This design is so out of left field that I can't help but love it. It's just so funny to me. Then again, I guess that's just my thing. I mean, this is coming from a guy that draws Metal Sonic to look like the Tin Man from Wizard of Oz, so...

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Eddie LeBron is a hypocrite

 

I don't get this one because LeBron and Sega's designs aren't the same. He is allowed to comment on hilariously sculpted Knuckles and say what everyone else has been saying about him on that front.

 

Well I mean the PR period to its release.

 

People pretty much loved the design, or at least had no significant problems with it. We forget all too easily in the midst of "Sonic Adventure was never good!" echo chambers.

Edited by Nepenthe

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