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Sonic Boom (Working Title)


Soniman

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Because the thing people are against does not even exist, it's an opinion based on a knee jerk reaction to something they are not comfortable with.

If Hawaiian shirt Shadow was indeed a terrible character then these opinions would be more concrete, but he doesn't exist.

By this logic nobody should be mad about game!Shadow because he also doesn't exist, being a fictional character. :V

 

And if people's impressions of this concept for Shadow is that it's terrible, then...why not? Are we not allowed to discuss things that are hypothetical? Especially since I seem to recall the basis of this discussion was that you like the idea...I guess people aren't allowed to discuss something if they disagree with you? I mean, it doesn't exactly sound amazing aside from the shirt.

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Metal Sonic, originally Eggman’s finest creation, Metal gained independence and freedom after Tails reprogrammed him. Then he’s Sonic’s main rival for the series, and a sort of anti-hero. His main objective is proving he is better than Sonic, in speed races, saving people or even a burping contest. 

Wears, nothing. He’s metal and blue like Sonic.
 
Shadow and Rouge
Eggman’s bumbling henchmen. These two are snarky, sarcastic, lazy, deceitful, devious, greedy and often bear the brunt of the pain when Eggman’s plans inevitably go wrong. 
Rouge is the brains of the operation, and often likes to make alterations to the plan if she sees something worth stealing for herself.
Shadow is the muscle of the operation; he can almost go toe to toe with Sonic if he tries, which is never. Shadow prefers to give the least effort possible. 
Wears, Rouge wears a pink toob top with purple sweatpants, she has blue wings.
Shadow wears an open red Hawaiian flower print shirt, he has sunglasses on all the time.

 

...While I don't mind if SEGA or Sonic Team should feel the need to reboot the series... I don't think I like the idea of seeing Shadow and Rouge as bumbling henchmen, the absolute thought of it being that way just seems rather awkward. Not even funny awkward, just a wrong feeling.

 

Burping contest... low form of comedy is low.

 

 

 

I kinda wish it was really, Shadow wearing a Hawaiian shirt with sunglasses sounds like the best fucking idea ever. 

 

I really don't...  Shadow in a Hawaiian shirt while silly, just isn't right to me. I like Shadow being the quiet, cereal guy who doesn't take bullcrap.

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Since when are concepts immune to criticism? The very concept is terrible in and of itself, at least in my opinion. I don't need to see the finished product, because even if it turned out half-way okay, it would still be less preferable.

I have a more wait and see mentality towards these types of things, so screw it, maybe I am wrong.

I may not agree with it, nor do I feel I'm wrong. But I'll just let people vent I guess.

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So despite the fact that it was obviously fake, where did someone else come along and confirm it as fake?

 

Some of the concepts didn't sound massively implausible. The entirety of Knuckles' bio really did seem like something that could have been done. And the over-arching plot about Time Travel? Yeah. But too much gave it away, not least of all Fang. He should be off limits to any hoaxer wishing to convince people.

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Since when are concepts immune to criticism? The very concept is terrible in and of itself, at least in my opinion. I don't need to see the finished product, because even if it turned out half-way okay, it would still be less preferable.

I have a more wait and see mentality towards these types of things, so screw it, maybe I am wrong.

I may not agree with it, nor do I feel I'm wrong. But I'll just let people vent I guess.

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Why is despising a concept a bad thing, but any other reaction to a concept is not?

 

I was under the impressions that we were allowed to judge and/or criticize any concepts thrown our way, as the last….62 pages of this topic show.

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Except they've still got all this backstory bloat hanging onto him that isn't helping anything he's done lately.

The way I see it, if they do end up using Shadow in Boom, they're going to have to do something about his backstory. It's too big and specific to just slip it in and move on like you could with other characters. Like Tails, you can just say "he's Sonic's genius mechanic best friend" and that's about all you need to know, but to be true to Shadow's backstory you'd need to go into the ARK and Gerald and Maria and all that shit (and that's without even touching on the Black Arms). I don't see them spending a whole arc just to retell SA2 again, and I don't see them just ignoring it and not explaining his backstory for the people who are new to the series. The third option, then, is to reboot him and give him a backstory that fits what they're trying to achieve.

I still think it could work to have his existing backstory, just maybe retcon a bit of the games.  Like, instead of giving him immediate trust in humans, we could follow his escapades as he learns how to trust, only made a bit more comical.

 

Guys stop following rumors from 4chan

No one is saying this is true.  We're discussing purely hypothetical situations here.

 

I have a more wait and see mentality towards these types of things, so screw it, maybe I am wrong.

I may not agree with it, nor do I feel I'm wrong. But I'll just let people vent I guess.

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I think we're all leaning on "wait and see," but while we're waiting, it certainly doesn't hurt to discuss what we do and don't want to see when the time comes.

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By this logic nobody should be mad about game!Shadow because he also doesn't exist, being a fictional character. :V

And if people's impressions of this concept for Shadow is that it's terrible, then...why not? Are we not allowed to discuss things that are hypothetical? Especially since I seem to recall the basis of this discussion was that you like the idea...I guess people aren't allowed to discuss something if they disagree with you? I mean, it doesn't exactly sound amazing aside from the shirt.

Let it go dude, I dropped from this argument. I just have a different attitude towards things like this, and it's one people don't agree with. So there's no point continuing .

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Except they've still got all this backstory bloat hanging onto him that isn't helping anything he's done lately.

The way I see it, if they do end up using Shadow in Boom, they're going to have to do something about his backstory. It's too big and specific to just slip it in and move on like you could with other characters. Like Tails, you can just say "he's Sonic's genius mechanic best friend" and that's about all you need to know, but to be true to Shadow's backstory you'd need to go into the ARK and Gerald and Maria and all that shit (and that's without even touching on the Black Arms). I don't see them spending a whole arc just to retell SA2 again, and I don't see them just ignoring it and not explaining his backstory for the people who are new to the series. The third option, then, is to reboot him and give him a backstory that fits what they're trying to achieve.

 

After his own game, Shadow's backstory is hardly relevant anymore other than showing where he came from. His personality did take a considerable shift from the stereotypical broody, angsty dude. Shadow doesn't need a massive reboot when the parts of personality people criticize him for aren't even in play anymore, and it's not impossible to make new stories that have nothing to do with his past. They can focus on anything, including his rivalry with Sonic, his relationships with other characters, and how he deals with Eggman's shenanigans. Again, it's not the fandom's fault SEGA's too lazy to do anything about it.

 

EDIT: Got a little rude, so I toned it down.

Edited by Zaysho
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I think we're all leaning on "wait and see," but while we're waiting, it certainly doesn't hurt to discuss what we do and don't want to see when the time comes.

Maybe. There are times when I feel we hate something for the sake of hating it, which I've never been a fan of, and something I tend to fight against .

If we're discussing concepts, then I would at least see it play out. Even if I prefer an alternative.

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So despite the fact that it was obviously fake, where did someone else come along and confirm it as fake?

 

Some of the concepts didn't sound massively implausible. The entirety of Knuckles' bio really did seem like something that could have been done. And the over-arching plot about Time Travel? Yeah. But too much gave it away, not least of all Fang. He should be off limits to any hoaxer wishing to convince people.

Ian Flynn said as such, and SEGA would theoretically tell him ahead of time if the games were getting a reboot, since the comics have gone though a lot of changes to make them closer to the games. Of course, this is SEGA we're talking about...

 

Maybe. There are times when I feel we hate something for the sake of hating it, which I've never been a fan of, and something I tend to fight against .

I agree, actually. The first 60 pages of this thread were a humongous headache for me, which is why this whole rumour thing has made me happier with the Sonic fandom than I have been in a long time, since everyone's happy and goofing off for the most part.
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Ian Flynn said as such, and SEGA would theoretically tell him ahead of time if the games were getting a reboot, since the comics have gone though a lot of changes to make them closer to the games. Of course, this is SEGA we're talking about...

 

Eh, I guess in fairness, the Archie crew did have to play Sonic Adventure on their own to get the story down (Spaz got a Japanese Dreamcast and everything on his own) before SEGA even bothered to clue them in. But I think their policies have changed quite a bit since 1998, given their heavy involvement in the comics' development these days.

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I'm just glad it is all fake. When I was reading that, I was getting really worried if that was going to be true. I can deal with a silly alternative reality that stays in a show. They have something original to work with. If you are then going to say, screw all continuity in the games and say we are starting over and to forget everything you ever knew before there as well, especially after the archie stuff, I was going to get rather mad at hearing that. Just abandoning it all would make me and I'm sure many other long time people quite mad if you say ignore everything from the previous games and you better like it.

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After his own game, Shadow's backstory is hardly relevant anymore other than showing where he came from. His personality did take a considerable shift from the stereotypical broody, angsty dude. Shadow doesn't need a massive reboot when the parts of personality people criticize him for aren't even in play anymore, and it's not impossible to make new stories that have nothing to do with his past. Again, it's not the fandom's fault SEGA's too lazy to do anything about it.

 

EDIT: Got a little rude, so I toned it down.

Okay but, if you went up to someone who worked on Boom, and asked them "Who is Shadow? What's his deal?" what would they tell you? Would they just regurgitate SA2's story for you?
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Maybe. There are times when I feel we hate something for the sake of hating it, which I've never been a fan of, and something I tend to fight against .

If we're discussing concepts, then I would at least see it play out. Even if I prefer an alternative.

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Agreed, I myself like to take more of "if its bad its bad and if its good it good" wait and see approach to these things.

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Okay but, if you went up to someone who worked on Boom, and asked them "Who is Shadow? What's his deal?" what would they tell you? Would they just regurgitate SA2's story for you?

 

Why not talk about his personality...? They could say "Shadow is a serious character who prefers to live on his own terms. He once had issues dealing with his past, but ultimately managed to move on and accept it. Now he works for GUN, despite past differences, and regularly teams up with Rouge and Omega to protect the world from threats terrestrial or otherwise." I just made that up on my own, and it's not that far off from what they did in the games. Why recount every bit of his backstory if it's not relevant to what you're writing right then? But it's still there if it needs to be pulled from (that's how backstory works), but nine times out of then, it won't be.

 

I don't understand why his backstory needs to be a bigger deal than it is. It's there to give him some history and grounding, but it doesn't need to be in your face all the time. Even '06 didn't mention Maria... and that's probably the one thing Mephiles could've done to manipulate Shadow (though it's questionable if even that would work at that point in time).

Edited by Zaysho
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Maybe. There are times when I feel we hate something for the sake of hating it, which I've never been a fan of, and something I tend to fight against .

If we're discussing concepts, then I would at least see it play out. Even if I prefer an alternative.

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I see where you're coming from in that regard, but I think people can discuss without continuously adding "but we'll just have to wait and see."  Because I think we all know that the final product will undoubtedly be different than our expectations, for better or for worse. XP

 

Ian Flynn said as such, and SEGA would theoretically tell him ahead of time if the games were getting a reboot, since the comics have gone though a lot of changes to make them closer to the games. Of course, this is SEGA we're talking about...

I agree, actually. The first 60 pages of this thread were a humongous headache for me, which is why this whole rumour thing has made me happier with the Sonic fandom in a long time, since everyone's happy and goofing off for the most part.

I recently learned thanks to the Knuckles topic that Archie didn't even consult Sega for Charmy's age, so it's possible that they have entire arcs planned out that, should a reboot occur, will undoubtedly cause a number of contradictions and problems before Archie ever gets wind of it.

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I see where you're coming from in that regard, but I think people can discuss without continuously adding "but we'll just have to wait and see." Because I think we all know that the final product will undoubtedly be different than our expectations, for better or for worse.

I guess. Too much negativety harshes my mellow.

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Why not talk about his personality...? They could say "Shadow is a lone-wolf type character who prefers to live on his own terms. He once had issues dealing with his past, but ultimately managed to move on and accept it. Now he works for GUN and regularly teams up with Rouge and Omega to protect the world from threats terrestrial or otherwise."

That seems like kind of a big thing to leave out. Boom is, presumably, going to be made to stand on its own, but this is leaving out a whole big wad of stuff that you'd only know if you played a game that came out 12 years ago.

Why recount every bit of his backstory if it's not relevant to what you're writing right then? But it's still there if it needs to be pulled from (that's how backstory works), but nine times out of then, it won't be.

If they don't recount it, is it actually there to be pulled from? 

Do you need to recount your childhood days every time someone asks how you are?

No but if someone asked who I am and what my deal is I think it would be reasonable to explain some of the major events of my life.

I don't understand why his backstory needs to be a bigger deal than it is.

What I say, whenever someone has a panic attack over the idea of changing it...
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That seems like kind of a big thing to leave out. Boom is, presumably, going to be made to stand on its own, but this is leaving out a whole big wad of stuff that you'd only know if you played a game that came out 12 years ago.

And if you want to know more, you can: A.) play the games and find out, B.) Ask more about it or C.) check a wiki. But if it's not important to get an overview of the character's personality, then why dive into it?

 

If they don't recount it, is it actually there to be pulled from?

Yes. That's the point. If it's needed, it's there. It's history.

 

No but if someone asked who I am and what my deal is I think it would be reasonable to explain some of the major events of my life.

Touché. But I guess I take a different approach to that sort of thing. I'll tell you I've been drawing my whole life, but I don't think it's important to talk about the first time I picked up a pencil (ignoring my ever so fuzzy memory).

 

What I say, whenever someone has a panic attack over the idea of changing it...

No, my point is his backstory doesn't need to be in your face and we don't need to have him screaming "Maria!" this and "Maria!" that day and night. There's more to the character than that; he'd be pretty shallow otherwise.

EDIT: this is all SEGA gives us for Shadow as of Generations (spoiler'd for size):

 

Shadow_profile_SG.png

There's more to him obviously, but as far as just the basics, it does the job of telling you who he is without hitting you over the head with all his past baggage. If more is needed for a future installment, that's there too.

Edited by Zaysho
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And if you want to know more, you can: A.) play the games and find out, B.) Ask more about it or C.) check a wiki. But if it's not important to get an overview of the character's personality, then why dive into it?

Okay, while I somewhat agree with you on your other points, I'm going to stop you right there and say that no media should ever forcefully redirect you to another piece of media in order to understand its plot and basis of conception.  That's just bad writing and is not very fun for people who aren't into video games or don't enjoy reading long Wiki entries.  Tying into the games may compliment a narrative, but if it can't stand on its own weight, the show is doomed to fail.

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And if you want to know more, you can A) play the games and find out, cool.png Ask more about it or C) check a wiki. But if it's not important to get an overview of the character's personality, then why dive into it?

It seems really weird to have a show where you need to check a wiki to understand who a guy is. That's the kind of thing I would expect the show itself to do.

Yes. That's the point. If it's needed, it's there. It's history.

But is it the history of this show, if they don't state it? I expect Boom is going to be doing its own thing, from the character designs; it's not going to be writing stories meant to slot in somewhere between the games. If they don't say a thing is true in it, I don't think we should assume it is just because it is in the games. And if they never do say it, what sense is referencing it going to make to new fans who haven't played the games?

No, my point is his backstory doesn't need to be in your face and we don't need to have him screaming "Maria!" this and "Maria!" that day and night. There's more to the character than that; he'd be pretty shallow otherwise.

I just don't get how people can argue that his backstory doesn't matter because it isn't used anymore and yet freak at the thought of changing his backstory into something that is useful.
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I just don't get how people can argue that his backstory doesn't matter because it isn't used anymore and yet freak at the thought of changing his backstory into something that is useful.

 

There is actually no contradiction between saying you can use Shadow in modern contexts that don't reference his backstory (a backstory the character himself has thrown away), and disagreeing with the idea that a particular change to said backstory would actually count as "useful."

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