Jump to content
Awoo.

Spoiler Topic [Warning - Untagged Discussion]


Carbo

Recommended Posts

That he'll actually turn the tables on the Monsters of the Week after they hijacked his plan for once?

But we don't know that for sure yet...

 

He's more entertaining than most of the other final bosses in the series, he's the villain of the series so it's generally more meaningful to beat him down than some random guy who just showed up, and they still need to even things out after screwing him over so much.

 

But that's what I don't get, he's always the final boss(or at least expected to be), so even if he is the main villain of the series, how much more weight does he carry compared to say, Erazor or Merlina? Or rather, what makes Eggman being the final boss so much more significant other than simply being the main villain?

Edited by Dark Yakuzu
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And besides, after getting so much shit about never learning his lesson on getting backstabbed, its good to see he actually LEARNED a thing or two about trying to enslave monsters of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's what I don't get, he's always the final boss(or at least expected to be), so even if he is the main villain of the series, how much more weight does he carry compared to say, Erazor or Merlina?

 

In the 3D games up until Colours he was never the final boss.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the 3D games up until Colours he was never the final boss.  

 

But that's not what I was asking: I'm not asking how many times has he been the final boss, I'm saying how much weight as a villain does he have compared to some of the other villains of the series, my examples being Erazor or Merlina, that the mere fact of being the final boss is enough for people to consider him amazing.

Edited by Dark Yakuzu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

People are happy because Eggman is actually doing things right instead of "lel eggman is an incompetent moron and doesn't know how to control his god monsters bet you never saw that one coming"

Edited by Blitz 'n Burst
  • Thumbs Up 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's not what I was asking: I'm not asking how many times has he been the final boss, I'm saying how much weight as a villain does he have compared to some of the other villains of the series, my examples being Erazor or Merlina, that the mere fact of being the final boss is enough for people to consider him amazing.

 

Nobody said he was an amazing villain BECAUSE he's the final boss. People like him as a character. People like him as a villain. They're glad he has a significant showdown with Sonic in the upcoming game. What the other games did don't matter. 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But we don't know that for sure yet...

 

 

But that's what I don't get, he's always the final boss(or at least expected to be), so even if he is the main villain of the series, how much more weight does he carry compared to say, Erazor or Merlina? Or rather, what makes Eggman being the final boss so much more significant other than simply being the main villain?

Yes we do, the leaks from 4chan said he'd backstab Sonic after he did all the dirty work for the good doctor.

 

Lets put it like this, imagine someone punches you in the face and runs, and then the next time you two meet, he does the same again, and then he keeps repeating it every time you see him, then, at one point, you decide that's enough, and wants to defend yourself, or even attack him as payback, but when you're about to do so, someone out of nowhere punches the dude and says ''IM MORE EVIL, FIGHT ME''.

You'll might fight someone stronger, more evil, and even smarter than the person who punched you, but you won't get the feel of satisfaction out of it, because you didn't get your revenge on that person who punched you.

On Sonic Unleashed we wanted to make Eggman pay for tearing the planet appart, and after a fight with the Egg Dragoon, he gets humiliated but not by Sonic, by Dark Gaia, we couldn't take part on humiliating him.

Colors did it right, Eggman kidnapped and enslaved the wisps, what did Sonic, aka the Player, did at the end of the game? Not only you showed that you need no wisps to defeat him, but you destroyed his best machine at the moment and outright OVERKILLED It with the Final Color Blaster, to the point where Eggman was already losing it at the end of the fight.

See, Its not that Eggman isn't a good villain, he's great, but there's so much satisfaction to deliver the final blow to him on an epic battle that isn't followed by a fight against a giant monster, making him the biggest challenge of the game, the ultimate prize for going through everything the game, and Eggman himself , threw at you until the very end.

A good example would be Knuckles, on Sonic 3 he screwed with us since the very first cutscene, then once we finally had the chance to fight him, it was anti-climatic as hell. Now if Eggman is not the final boss, his fight won't be the hardest on the game, the biggest challenge it has to offer, and the satisfaction of actually beating him and humiliating him will be smaller than it could and should be.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's what I don't get, he's always the final boss(or at least expected to be)

He got screwed so often in the main series that people actually stopped expecting him to be the final boss; it became the norm to expect him to be kicked out by some monster. Perfect Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Overlord, Black Doom, Solaris, Dark Gaia. Yeah, if you count all the spinoffs he probably comes out on top, but they don't have the importance, the presence, of a main game.

Or rather, what makes Eggman being the final boss so much more significant other than simply being the main villain?

Being the main villain is a pretty big (and legitimate) part of it. Aside from that (or, sort of related but separate?), he's the most popular villain by far.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically what the other posters have been saying, yeah.

 

Eggman is endearing. He's both an imposing foe and a lovably humorous character at the same time, and seeing him pull off his whimsical goofiness and cunning villainy at the same time is awesome. Why settle for one extreme when you can have both? Eggman's at his best when he's hilarious and a diabolical mastermind, without either trait contradicting each other.

 

We're happy to see him take the reign as the big bad because he's such a great character. As the main villain, he has more significance to the story, and ergo more screentime to be his memorable self. Also, with three games in a row as the final boss, it's a very nice turn from the era where Eggman was almost never the main antagonist. For Eggman fans, a development like this feels both welcome and long-awaited.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I have no problem with eggman being the final boss in general, i do have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed that he is the final boss in this game, if that makes sense haha. With the Deadly 6 being promoted so heavily in this game, I was hoping they would truly be the main antagonists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically what the other posters have been saying, yeah.

 

Eggman is endearing. He's both an imposing foe and a lovably humorous character at the same time, and seeing him pull off his whimsical goofiness and cunning villainy at the same time is awesome. Why settle for one extreme when you can have both? Eggman's at his best when he's hilarious and a diabolical mastermind, without either trait contradicting each other.

 

We're happy to see him take the reign as the big bad because he's such a great character. As the main villain, he has more significance to the story, and ergo more screentime to be his memorable self. Also, with three games in a row as the final boss, it's a very nice turn from the era where Eggman was almost never the main antagonist. For Eggman fans, a development like this feels both welcome and long-awaited.

 

Eggman's been the Final Boss in the past two games already; In Colors I can understand because it was the first time it happened, Generations I'll give because of the "twist" but this is the third time in a row.

 

 

I'll gladly give Eggman credit if he's able to come off as a credible threat in he end, but its really impossible to claim this is the case for this game when we haven't even seen the context behind that boss yet.

 

 

I understand the appreciation for him as a character, I love him very much myself, but really that's not my standard for a final boss; I like context to my bosses and the circumstances surrounding them, and I'm not going to give credit on the basis of it being a character I happen to like. I'll especially be peeved if he doesn't live up to his final boss status because I happen to like the Deadly Six and would love to see their mantle as the main villains, mainly because they're the rare breed of villain with freaking personality.

 

 

But time will tell I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll gladly give Eggman credit if he's able to come off as a credible threat in he end, but its really impossible to claim this is the case for this game when we haven't even seen the context behind that boss yet.

Not being punted into the distance by whatever power he sought to control is already an improvement in credibility over most of the 3D series. Even without knowing the full context we know that he's managed to regain control when it matters, and we can assume he's got at least some remains of his plan working to go alongside the giant robot.
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah you always need to stay original to the series by keeping the same final boss.

I don't think thats what they meant by loving Eggman as the final boss. :v

Edited by Aspoopkara
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So tl;dr - It's not entirely about Eggman being outdone by a new villain, it's him being treated as an incompetent joke who never learned from his mistakes in the past.

Pretty much this. Seriously, I don't want Eggman to be the final boss in every new Sonic game, but if he's not going to be the Big Bad, they shouldn't have to screw him over just so the new baddie can "look cooler" or whatever.

 

At least in ShTH the "MOTW" didn't betray him (in that, they never worked together in the first place), but that game kinda made Eggman a joke, anyway. Egg Dealer, anyone? Then there's Colours DS which handled him alright I guess, even though the corrupted Mother WIsp was the final boss. So there's that...?

 

okay now I'm going to stay out of this topic until the game is out I swear

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah you always need to stay original to the series by keeping the same final boss.

Not really no. We don't have to have the same final boss, the point is not to treat a recurring one we've been used to as an irrelevant, incompetent joke when and if you're making a new one.

 

In fact, many of us liked SA1 at the time for having a twist in the form of a new final boss and for the very reason of not making Eggman incompetent (although it helps that this was the first time this happened), only to get sick of it when they kept doing it poorly since Heroes afterwards.

Edited by CreepySpiritSonic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes we do, the leaks from 4chan said he'd backstab Sonic after he did all the dirty work for the good doctor.

 

Lets put it like this, imagine someone punches you in the face and runs, and then the next time you two meet, he does the same again, and then he keeps repeating it every time you see him, then, at one point, you decide that's enough, and wants to defend yourself, or even attack him as payback, but when you're about to do so, someone out of nowhere punches the dude and says ''IM MORE EVIL, FIGHT ME''.

You'll might fight someone stronger, more evil, and even smarter than the person who punched you, but you won't get the feel of satisfaction out of it, because you didn't get your revenge on that person who punched you.

On Sonic Unleashed we wanted to make Eggman pay for tearing the planet appart, and after a fight with the Egg Dragoon, he gets humiliated but not by Sonic, by Dark Gaia, we couldn't take part on humiliating him.

 

Wasn't the outright decimation of the Egg Dragoon humiliation enough? He not only blew up the planet, but he turned Sonic into  essentially a werewolf. There's your motivation for revenge.

 

The Egg Dragoon was strong, but the Werehog royally handed Eggman's ass to him on a silver platter. Revenge Get.

 

You want overkill? Try DIRECT HITS to the Eggmobile and throwing it off into the distance a la Team Rocket. He didn't just destroy the Dragoon, but he actually went for some attacks ad hominem (no, not verbal...) to seal the deal. You (the player) just showed off that your "festive" look wasn't just for show.

 

Dealing with Dark Gaia is just the other half of the big bad ensemble. Eggman didn't have to be the final boss, but Sonic did give the Doctor his just desserts. It's just as satisfying if there's proper build up, which there was plenty of in that game.

 

 

It's great to see that there will be good build up for Eggman here with Lost World in addition to his final boss status, and I'm sure that I (as Sonic) am going to enjoy kicking his ass, but still.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Judging by those cutscenes, Eggman's gone to quite the measures to make the Deadly Six his bitches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Colors did it right, Eggman kidnapped and enslaved the wisps, what did Sonic, aka the Player, did at the end of the game? Not only you showed that you need no wisps to defeat him, but you destroyed his best machine at the moment and outright OVERKILLED It with the Final Color Blaster, to the point where Eggman was already losing it at the end of the fight.

See, Its not that Eggman isn't a good villain, he's great, but there's so much satisfaction to deliver the final blow to him on an epic battle that isn't followed by a fight against a giant monster, making him the biggest challenge of the game, the ultimate prize for going through everything the game, and Eggman himself , threw at you until the very end.

 

I don't think I quite agree with this.

 

What very much undermined Colours' final boss for me regarding Eggman being it was not only how lame that boss was anyway (To me at least, it was incredibly disappointing considering it was Eggman's stint as final-final boss for the first time a long while) and how the attack that took him out was a glorified homing attack but also how his villainy isn't effective throughout the game, how uninvolved he is primarily acting behind the scenes instead of really getting his hands dirty and how his victims are never elaborated-upon or treated as anything more than the critters were in the first game in the series.

 

Now Unleashed, THAT'S how you do an Eggman boss and humiliation. The doc had the humiliation of not only having his mech torn apart by a vengeful Sonic with his bare hands right in front of his eyes, even PLEADING for Sonic not to do it and even taking part in ruining his own mech himself by firing the drill-arm into it's midsection in an attempt to hit Sonic only to get hoist by his own petard but he was tossed into the horizon twice. He thinks he has complete control over Dark Gaia but is very much deluded and gets a tentacle to the egg mobile for good measure.

 

And it doesn't even stop there! Orbot even gets the pleasure of tormenting the doc over his latest failure, really rubbing it in by saying himself how utterly humiliating it was to the point that Eggman gets up and makes a complete ass of himself by attempting to kick Orbot and then only succeeding in falling flat on his back.

 

Yeah...Unleashed was far, far better at encapsulating everything that makes showing-up Eggman so satisfying. Colours completely falls short and his status as the final boss stands for absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned.

 

Now what I'm hoping for in this game if Eggman indeed does backstab Sonic whilst maintaining the facade that they're working together is some seething rage out of Sonic from the betrayal and the way Eggman took advantage of their cooperation and It'd give him even more of a reason to tear-apart whatever the final boss is with much aplomb. That would make for a potentially very satisfying fight and conclusion.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.