Lost World: Discussion, Impressions and Fan Reviews

[Willsy]

This may come as a surprise to you all, but the 3DS version actually feels more...Sonic-y than the Wii U version. It also controls a bit better too. It genuinely feels like a Sonic experience (with the exception of a couple of puzzle levels), and it feels fast, fun, and fluid. Did I mention that there's online multiplayer too?

The Wii U version is great, but not exactly a step forward. I really enjoyed it, and it's a good foundation for something new. But ArtFenix was actually right when he said that there are a lot of similarities to Mario (please don't hit me!). It's okay for this one time, but I don't want them playing "me too" again. There are also some very sharp difficulty spikes in this version, namely Lava Mountain 2. However the Wii U version is a great game and I do recommend it.

But I'd have to give both versions each an 8/10, both have their own pros and cons, but which version you want would depend on what you're willing to give up for what.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Wil348

[Carbo]

So, Lost World.

I get the sense that in managing my expectations there was only really two things I sincerely expected this game to do for me. The first was to get rid of the boost game play, as Colors proved not much could actually be added onto that without taking liberties with the design, and Generations was basically the ceiling for the quality and the general game progression as a whole when what the gameplay can come with is pulled out in full force.

The second expectation was to go back to basics and set a new baseline for Sonic - one that Sonic Team will be able to use as an outset for any other future installments. Because if there's one thing and one thing only that Sonic desperately needed to take from Mario among the huge slew of gimmicks that are present in this game, it's the general idea of having a foundation. The key reason Mario has, to this day, managed to stay fresh, is that his game play was never changed at it's core. New gimmicks would be added, but in the end the goal was always some form of having to run and jump in order to go from point A to point B. The core foundation of a franchise is what defines it, and it's something Sonic has been lacking, because ideally if you have a core foundation as an outset you will know what to expect in future installments. You will know if you can look forward to what's to come in the future, and you will be content with the knowledge that if the foundation is manageable at it's most basic level, the rest of the franchise onward will be spent refining it and instead focusing on building a bigger, bolder and better world around it.

In those aspects, Sonic Lost World is a huge success for the franchise, mostly because it's realizing something Unleashed, Colors and Generations didn't - it's embracing the basics. It's not using any sort of gimmick to shape it's entire identity, rather it has created an identity that can mold itself into a plethora of ways. Ideally, this ought to be the outset of what should have defined the boost trilogy, because Lost World manages to create a method of play where it doesn't feel like design or control has to be sacrificed to support one singular mechanic, and I could definitely imagine a future game that has Lost World's gameplay with a toned down version of the boost implemented, most likely something similar to Colors.

The controls are an interesting issue to tackle here because there is only really one button that is responsible for executing all of Sonic's brand new moves. Getting used to navigating Sonic is in essence a split moment of unfamiliarity owed to the lesser speed paving way for more responsive game play, followed by an extended moment of comfort and control. Getting used to Lost World's controls feels a bit like jumping into a public pool on a warm summer day - it's cold going in but if you sit long enough you'll eventually feel accustomed to the change in temperature and you'll come to enjoy the contrast. It's a different matter all the same if we're speaking strictly a preference of styles, and admittedly, Sonic could afford to go a little bit faster when not on set pieces. Whenever he's on ice or on one of the on-rail tubes his speed will largely outclass that of his current default top speed. It's the segments like these that remind the most of Sonic Generations.

At the same time, there are a lot of moments when it mostly feels like Sonic's speed in a 3D area is compensated by the generally clever use of camera angles and terrain formation. Desert Ruins Zone 1 comes to mind here as one of the most impressive moments as far as this is concerned. For being a level that was criticized by many upon first glance as "empty", the clever camera angles, the ramps, the pitfalls and obstacles generally make the game feel faster by default, and the best thing of all is that it's not owed to slapping a high pass filter on with blur all around the character. The game does a great job in making big areas feel fast simply because of design, and it's these moments where Lost World shines the brightest. As a small aside I'd like to point out, changing the initial jump to be Sonic's classical spin while the double jump comes at the sacrifice of not being able to hit enemies is a welcome design change in order to give it a bit more of a consequence - but at the same time performing that kind of jump looks cool to the degree that if the perspective is stretched out to a well degree you honestly feel more like you're employing more of Sonic's movement patterns in cutscenes and promotional material way more than the boosting could ever hope to accomplish by feeling fast and full of control.

This comes to play with the parkour as well which is generally one of the more impressive additions in Lost World, as it allows for what were set pieces in the previous games to be fully utilizable terrain. You can run on practically every wall, you can ricochet off of every surface and the terrain is molded to such an extent that it is generally rewarding to use the terrain as your own playground. As much as it occasionally requires a more patient mentality than the feeling of rush that the boost trilogy provides, it's overall a welcome addition as it allows you to control Sonic in a matter far more similar to his all-encompassing arsenal of movements. I'm going to assume that we're going to see a lot of impressive speed runs of the game where the focus won't be breaking the game with the boost but instead mastering the diverse abilities on hand to locate the best possible route. That video doing rounds where a player is practically blazing through a level with style while IGN and GameSpot's reviews are read out is probably the start of many interesting videos.

The key issue with having overall nailed down a style like this ends up becoming whether or not the design can accommodate a basic but still effective game play set up. This is where the game steps into some more pitfalls, because the first half of the game is absolutely brilliant. I'm more compelled to return to these stages more than I am any in Generations, not only because of the insane plethora of alternate paths and things to discover, but also because the aforementioned mechanics mean that it often becomes less of a matter of memorizing the level itself and dialing boost/quick-step formations as much as it's more to do with how the terrain can be exploited to the best possibility. With that in mind it's no wonder that so much of the game's initial showcase was showing off the first worlds because these are effective and timeless. There's so much to do in here compared to a lot of other Sonic games that it's already leaving the impression of being one of the most depth-filled Sonic games to date. On top of that, much has been touted about the Galaxy-derivative levels, which even though are borrowing elements without shame, actually do it well to such a degree that they become charming breather stages that break up the action. They're fleshed out enough to be pleasant to wander in which is one of the things Galaxy was great at doing, and they retain enough Sonic-specific gimmicks that overall it's hard not to smile playing these stages.

The second half on the other hand doesn't deal with the same amount of polish as much. It's commendable that Lost World spends a significant deal on mixing up things by introducing stage-specific gimmicks but at some times these can get a tad frustrating to bear with, such as the pinball tables in Frozen Factory. The Wisps which are a constant throughout most stages are mostly manageable, as Drill remains the best one with now improved mechanics and Laser still being controllable with the stick. On the other hand, the new implementations dedicated to gyro-controls are a hassle to manage, and I can count a lot of deaths on my hand in Sky Road after the Eagle controls got messed up. Thankfully, just about all Wisps, with the exception of Rhythm and Drill, seem to be completely optional, as they are mostly served as a means to provide players with an easier route, even if the controls end up hampering that idea.

In terms of level design hiccups there are a deal of stages that end up having a bit more frustration than what it's worth, which is usually the case in the last two worlds, but usually the prevalent frustration of these are down to one key issue, and it's that lives are incredibly scarce to obtain on a regular basis in this game. For some reason the rings don't grant you extra lives after passing the 100 mark and whether this is a huge oversight or some sort of glitch I don't know. But it becomes clear that the lack of prevalent lives makes what is actually a very progressive difficulty curve more frustrating. During it's hardest moments the game is very reminiscent of Donkey Kong Country 2, which is a game I always considered to have a consistent and fair difficulty curve, but the challenge is undermined by how little leniency you're allowed after a failed attempt. Checkpoints are not handed out often and precision becomes a lot more demanding, even if not as much as in Unleashed. As such you are bound to get a couple of Game Overs as unless you spend time in a level that has a lot of lives concealed in it, you'll only return from a failed stage with four more lives to attempt with. It seems as if the game would give you more lives because there are a plethora of rings scattered around but they don't end up serving much of a purpose. I honestly imagine that if the game was more generous with handing out lives or just ditched them altogether, it would probably have been far less frustrating to play through the game.

One of the things however, which puts Lost World above it's two predecessors, is establishing context. There's a mentality which Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation has described in his weekly column which is the three points a game should have above all else in order to be considered a great game, and that's context, challenge and gratification. The two last points were something that Colors and Generations handled well but they were sorely lacking in the very first point, especially Generations which was a five hour game devoid of story and with no consistency between levels and a lackluster ending. Lost World turns itself into an example of that very first point now that the writers have been allowed to write the story, which means it doesn't have to resort to a barrage of jokes to keep things fresh. The story is progressive and clearly established with the characters selling the deal. The Deadly Six are a wonderful and colorful new cast of characters who I really hope we get to see more of in the future as they're brimming with personality and do a great job squaring off against Sonic by different means in comparison to Eggman's affable nature. It also brings me to the next point that getting to see an actual reluctant team-up between Eggman and Sonic is so much more fun, if not dramatic than you'd expect it to be, as Eggman is the star of the show. We already knew of Sonic's general attitude from the previous games but the pure resentment on display makes for some really good development and evaluation. Eggman has his finest moments in this game, bar none. And Sonic? I think it's safe to say this is the most true to his defined character he's ever been, and he very much managed to live up to that culpability he'd experience. Tails growing a backbone and expressing dissatisfaction with his former idol is really nice to see, as he's finally grown up and has no qualms with calling out Sonic for his shortcomings. I've never thought much of Sonic stories but I think Lost World is making the greatest case for Sonic Team to keep those writers on board and to keep letting them handle the stories, as what the game provides is one of the most interesting Sonic moments to date. It's also awesome to see how the bosses are segued into the regular stages to create more of a story-through-gameplay approach.

It's a bit of a shame that it generally falls apart near the end, as a lot of things are left unresolved. The ending seems pretty rushed as even though the result of the buildup is generally fulfilled, it seems like it originally set out to be on a much bigger scale than just that.

Lost World is probably going to divide some opinions based on expectations but taken as a whole and on it's own it's probably the most consistent, overall well produced game that Sonic Team has put out to this date, and should hopefully stand tall as a milestone for the franchise. For all the flaws keeping this game away from greatness, there is nothing short of potential in here, and even if that potential is unfulfilled the foundation is just too good to throw away with one game. For the first time I'm not just getting the sense that Sonic Team are sitting on a good game for the franchise, but that there's something in here waiting to be explored and to be taken in a million ways possible. It's not merely a formula that's being continued because of functionality, it's a formula that breeds other, additional formulas.

The game is good. Really good. It's the most optimistic I've been about anything Sonic-related and I sincerely hope that with this in hand, Sonic Team can keep refining and building more possibilities with it with bigger and better worlds, and hopefully with the same creative team ready to support it.

[Narukami07]

 

What a well-thought out review. I agree 100% with it completely......

Edited October 19, 2013 by Narukami07

[SilentDoom]

Video impressions!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9axtAWROcxg

 

Long winded I apologise.  Still, I had fun making it.  Also you may want to up your volume as well as it's a little quiet.

Edited October 19, 2013 by SiLeNtDo0m

[Phos]

By the way, i almost forgot but once again Sonic has this bizarrely huge amount of air friction.  So stifling.  

[TitanWarlord93]

Got the chance to play SLW with my pals today.

 

We only got up to Silent Forest and well I would say it's slightly better than what I had experienced at Eurogamer Expo earlier. The first set of levels were fun and enjoyable, however as we progress it does get a little bit frustrating and I feel that the controls need a little bit getting used to the first time round. No doubt it's the sharpest looking Sonic game (or in fact sharper in any Wii U title I had played) ever though now that it runs at 60FPS. Oh and of course the soundtrack is the best yet I have heard in a long time.

 

Going to see how it goes tomorrow after work but this game should be good enough as a recommendation.

Edited October 19, 2013 by deepbluespeed99

[NiGHTS]

I just got the game, luckily early. I will post my review and thoughts soon. Luckily alot of reviews and comments on here tell me ill probably really enjoy this game. Like any Sonic game, I expect there share of problems but, hopefully I will enjoy this new path for future Sonic games if they stay this course.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

The only word I can find to describe this game is inconsistent. The game varies between being incredibly fun and mind-numbingly frustrating. The amount of gimmick stages just for the sake of variety is fucking obnoxious. Beyond the odd diverging pathway or wall-jumping segment the levels aren't designed around the new mechanics at all, so while it's enjoyable to run up and along walls and stuff it doesn't have much of a purpose. The level design doesn't feel much like a Sonic game at all, and while the overall story is good it all went to shit in the final world, with the deadly six being unceremoniously thrown aside and Eggman suddenly being alive just for the sake of having an Eggman fight despite the fact that he contirbuted absolutely nothing to the story. It's a fun game, but it does too many things wrong for me to really love it. If they refined the current gameplay mechanics and designed the levels around them with less random gimmick stages it could be a great game.

 

Unfortunately the next game will probably be completely different from this one anyway so meh

[Willsy]

My thoughts on Lost World overall;

Well it was a bit disappointing. I thought the later levels in the game were going to be really fun just like the earlier levels. That was not the case. The game is really good up until about Sky Zone 4, then the game takes a downward spiral. The controls sometimes work in your favour, sometimes they don't. It's a bit like Unleashed in that respect, and sometimes it's really frustrating. However it's not all doom and gloom, as I said, the earlier levels are really fun to play through, and the spin dash is really fast and works well. The jump is really annoying though, it breaks your flow a lot. But overall, it's a good, maybe great game, but not amazing or outstanding.

The 3DS version was very good, I really enjoyed that version. The controls felt better, and some of the stages were better too.

Overall, I think Sonic Team need to go back to basics in terms of level design, since that's what everybody seems to want. Maybe make the levels more open, keep the spin dash, add the boost as a special move that can only be used when you collect a large number of rings, etc.

I can recommend Lost World for the earlier and mid game levels, but not for the later levels.

What I'm worried about is whether this game has done damage to the series or not. I hope it hasn't.

By the way, I just had a thought; It's the Storybook/Colours team behind this isn't it? Well Generations team must be up to something then, maybe the 3rd Nintendo exclusive?

Edited October 20, 2013 by Wil348

[Narukami07]

Another new type of gameplay would kinda stink, Hopefully Sega pulls a Colors and takes the good parts of LW's mechanics and merge them with Generations to make a great game for platforming/speed fans to enjoy.

 

By the way, I just had a thought; It's the Storybook/Colours team behind this isn't it? Well Generations team must be up to something then, maybe the 3rd Nintendo exclusive?

That's what I've been thinking, but i know that the Colors team merged with the Generations team to finish the game before, so they might be whole. But the way that Sega's been quiet about the third exclusive really piques my interests on if it could be another mainline Sonic title.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Narukami07

[Scar]

Had a brief shot at the game. One thing that really bothered me was the delayed reaction to the homing attack. I know that's to accommodate hitting multiple targets, but I want it to be immediate and responsive. There is no point in being able to take down 12 enemies at once, because there is no point in having 12 enemies in a row specifically to homing attack and get points.

Also, something doesn't feel quite right about Sonic having "gears" of speed. I dunno, but it just feels off. I want a more...fluid acceleration and no arbitrary speed cap for a given "gear". Like Sonic should be able to reach a high speed eventually, without without the use of the run button. Using the run button merely increases Sonic's acceleration (not his top speed), and compromises his handling to provide a little balance.

I like the parkour though. Better than I thought it would be, but assigning it to the same button as run was a mistake, in the same way assigning the air-boost/boost to the same button as the homing attack was a mistake in Unleashed. I could lead to some frustrating moments in more difficult levels...

 

Can't comment on level design beyond the couple that I played. Those were OK, but they're the early stages, so can't say much.

 

If and when I get a chance to play more than a few runthroughs of the first couple stages, I'll go into more detail of what I like/dislike and how I'd want it improved.

[Elseb]

I'm glad that so many people like the game, especially when you've all at this point probably paid the full release price for it. Personally, I pretty much agree with the majority of reviews on the internet. I'm not a fan, I just don't think it worked very well. I think the honest answer is Sonic is a hard nut to crack. The original game was incredibly stylish but made little sense in gameplay terms.  Every subsequent game has either been chasing the myth of the first or trying to make sense of it.

 

Personally I loved Sonic Generations so I guess I was hoping for more of the same. That's my fault though, I guess.

[edvedd]

Thank you for the impressions, now I can go into it next week (If there are no delays) with optimistic but realistic expectations. 

[T-Min]

Thank you for the impressions, now I can go into it next week (If there are no delays) with optimistic but realistic expectations. 

Same. I've come to terms with the fact that it's probably not going to live up to my astronomical hopes. Judging from what I've heard about it and what I've seen, I'll like it just fine even if I don't adore it like Generations.

[edvedd]

Exactly. These impressions give me what reviews don't usually provide. By nature reviews have to be more general, but impressions can be more detailed and point out exactly what works and what doesn't. It's more helpful.

[Narukami07]

Same. I've come to terms with the fact that it's probably not going to live up to my astronomical hopes. Judging from what I've heard about it and what I've seen, I'll like it just fine even if I don't adore it like Generations.

 

 

Ditto.

[Phos]

Had a brief shot at the game. One thing that really bothered me was the delayed reaction to the homing attack. I know that's to accommodate hitting multiple targets, but I want it to be immediate and responsive. There is no point in being able to take down 12 enemies at once, because there is no point in having 12 enemies in a row specifically to homing attack and get points.

Also, something doesn't feel quite right about Sonic having "gears" of speed. I dunno, but it just feels off. I want a more...fluid acceleration and no arbitrary speed cap for a given "gear". Like Sonic should be able to reach a high speed eventually, without without the use of the run button. Using the run button merely increases Sonic's acceleration (not his top speed), and compromises his handling to provide a little balance.

I like the parkour though. Better than I thought it would be, but assigning it to the same button as run was a mistake, in the same way assigning the air-boost/boost to the same button as the homing attack was a mistake in Unleashed. I could lead to some frustrating moments in more difficult levels...

 

Can't comment on level design beyond the couple that I played. Those were OK, but they're the early stages, so can't say much.

 

If and when I get a chance to play more than a few runthroughs of the first couple stages, I'll go into more detail of what I like/dislike and how I'd want it improved.

Really this game's controls just look clunky in general.  Same air strange friction since I'm not even sure, homing attack is even more jarring (Any UI designer will tell you that some kind of response to an response to an input should happen within .1 seconds and video games aren't really different), and now you're just always holding the run button.  Not running seems so slow that I can't imagine anyone using it even when they do need precision, thanks in part to the air friction.  

[Remynaka]

I can't comment on the gameplay as I haven't played it - no Wii-u-. But the story.... HOLY SHIT was this an eye opener. I'll be completely honest. I wanted to hate the story cause I didn't care too much for the game, but I'm calling it like I see it. And this story was shocking and kicked major ass. Sonic getting a character arc? Eggman even had an arc.. fuck Sonic Tails and Eggman were REAL. They had emotions and made me take them seriously. And I wanted to HATE the game because I didn't like it. 

 

 I LOVED the fact Tails called Sonic out on his bullshit thru out the entire game, and Sonic felt BAD about it. He showed EMOTIONS. I can't say the same about the demons or the Zeti as while they were written good. They were groan worthy, the writing was good tho. I just didn't like them as much, I felt like as good as Eggman ,Sonic and Tails were, the Zeti could've been written just a bit better. THey felt weak compared to Sonic and company. Again I have no thoughts on the gameplay as I never played it .... but my god, The writing was awesome. The over-all plot.... I'm more of a fan of SA2 as it felt more dire? But this is miles ahead of anything sonic written when you look at the characters. THey steal the show in every sence and I'm about to watch them all again for a while. Fuck... the way it's written might get me to buy the system and the game.... and I hate the Wii-u. So that's saying ALOT. Good shit Sega. 

Edited October 20, 2013 by Gewn Naka

[Guest]

- Regular 3D levels is pretty good

- Regular 2D levels are decent

- Most gimmicky levels are mediocre and/or frustrating

- Some gimmicky levels are actually fun

- Graphics have a nice and very clean look to them.

- Cutscenes are done better than any Sonic game before.

- The actual story is terrible though. I get that it's supposed to be for kids, but the dialog is as bad as fan-fiction written by a 12 year old.

[JezMM]

I want to add some thoughts about the story, because I don't think it deserves the universal praise it's getting.  Sonic and Eggman were top-notch.  No questions... but Tails is getting a lot of praise I feel is unwarranted.

 

 

His character is irksomely inconsistent - compared to previous games and within this game itself.

 

Whenever Eggman and Tails have had to team up in the past, there's always been this sense of mutual respect.  The both of them are well aware that their rival is just as technologically inclined as they are.  Notice how Eggman is mature enough in this game as well that he never calls out Tails for being a feeble inventor, while Tails badmouths him at every opportunity in a way completely unlike his kind nature exhibited in every game previous.

 

But fine, I can accept that times have changed, Sonic's snarkiness is rubbing off on Tails or the writers have just decided to retcon his old personality for a new generation of Sonic storylines, that's totally fine.  I don't have to entirely like it but I can accept it.

 

So what annoys me more is the inconsistency in the game itself.

 

Depending on the scene, we have either a backtalking jerk who starts shit for no reason or a genius 8 year old who is lacking in worldly experience and common sense.

 

 

Contrast these scenes:

 

Early on in the game, Tails is so inept and cowering in the face of danger, Sonic physically carries him to safely.

 

Early on in the game, Tails puts his genius to use without thinking of the crucial details, and unknowingly puts himself in danger by converting Cubot into a robot designed for battle.  This was a lovely little moment that showed that genius or not, Tails was still a kid who is more prone to acting without thinking than he'd like to believe.

 

Later on in the game, Tails is a total snark in the face of danger, posing all relaxed when the Deadly Six discover him in the capsule.

 

Later on in the game, Tails willingly undergoes faking becoming a cyborg right in the lion's den, and opens fire on enemies who are now seriously powered up by Eggman's energy draining machine (it's actually a wonder why they run away).

 

To me these portrayals just feel... conflicting to me.

 

 

Tails does still have some great moments though.  My favourite thing is how

when he turns to talk to Sonic about what he's doing in the ending, he is gesturing to talk with his right hand while his left hand continues to frantically reprogram a massive energy draining weapon

without even looking at the screen.  I loved that.

Edited October 20, 2013 by JezMM

[Carbuncle]

 

Early on in the game, Tails is so inept and cowering in the face of danger, Sonic physically carries him to safely.

 

 

 

 

Tails was, albeit behind cover, shot directly by a missile. I'm pretty sure most characters would be rendered stunned when hit directly like that

Edited October 20, 2013 by Carbuncle

[JezMM]

 

Tails was, albeit behind cover, shot directly by a missile. I'm pretty sure most characters would be rendered stunned when hit directly like that

 

 

This is still the same Tails who used to be a playable character and head into battle headfirst.  He didn't exactly have his wits about him here.

[KittyNakajima]

Can anyone tell me how Amy and Knuckles were in the game? Just no huge spoilers please.

 

I went and watched all the cutscenes. They appeared in about four in total. Knuckles was pretty much a Buttmonkey & had maybe five lines throughout them. Amy did most of the talking, and while I'm still getting used to her Minnie Mouse-esque new voice, they definitely toned down the Flanderization of her love/Crush for Sonic. She was really more concerned with helping those critters and what was going on around them for the most part.

Edited October 20, 2013 by KittyNakajima

[Carbuncle]

This is still the same Tails who used to be a playable character and head into battle headfirst.  He didn't exactly have his wits about him here.

 

It's only in one scene, near the start of the game, where he is unprepared and shot behind cover.

 

Even Sonic ran away in that scene.

 

And as you say, Tails is quite the badass throughout the rest of the game.

[SilentDoom]

Really this game's controls just look clunky in general.  Same air strange friction since I'm not even sure, homing attack is even more jarring (Any UI designer will tell you that some kind of response to an response to an input should happen within .1 seconds and video games aren't really different), and now you're just always holding the run button.  Not running seems so slow that I can't imagine anyone using it even when they do need precision, thanks in part to the air friction.

I can tell you from about 15 - 20 hours of actually playing the game and being fully accustomed to the controls that none of what you said is the case. Walking is a lot more useful than you'd expect. There are plenty of segments particularly later on in the game where slowing down a little to space your jumps properly or to traverse narrow terrain is very handy. As one grows more accustomed to the controls walking is used less and less in favour of running and spin dashing but that of course makes sense and has essentially been the case in every good Sonic game. The more you get used to the game and the more you learn the level design the faster you're able to tackle it.

Additionally, I don't quite understand the comments on air friction. Aerial control has in my opinion been the best it had been and had hit a real nice sweet spot in terms of control and satisfaction.

Honestly sometimes I feel as though I'm playing a different game to others. I don't have any of the issues others seen to have with controls.