Lost World: Discussion, Impressions and Fan Reviews

[Soniman]

So I was just at the Sega Forums (don't ask) looking at this thread on whether Sonic Lost World's parkour gameplay element should be scrapped. The result?...I wrote a bloody wall of text about it below.

 

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Sonic Lost World's "parkour" is actually not parkour. It's hyped up as parkour, but in actuality it's just poorly-implemented wall-running that one can do vertically or horizontally.

 

Theres also wall jumping, ledge grabbing, and ledge vaulting which DOES have a lot to do with actual parkour last time I chekced, so I don't know where you got the idea that it was "just wall running".

 

I REALLY hesitate to call stuf like Unleashed actual wall running consideirng that there is zero momentum (which SLW had believe it or not), it's basically the same as regualr running excpet you are resricted to three lanes and it's all scripted, so how is that anything like actual wall running? and come to think of it it's usually the only time the quick step is even justified, in those "three lanes" areas, it sucks.

 

Actual parkouring is what id call the 2D Area in Desert Ruins 1 whin Sonic has to constantly run up walls, jump between them, being fast on our feet when dodgin enemies, running upisde down and this is all in a effor to maintian your flow mind you, I get a more genuine feeling of accomplishment and control then a lot of the reacitonary crap in Unleashed honestly.

[Kuzu]

I like how you responded to that specific part of his post only

Edited November 20, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

I like how you responded to that specific part of his post only

I was responding to the whole thing (well the first paragraph, not the 'how to improve it' part because there decent ideas), I just quoted the beignning sentence to open with. :/

Edited November 20, 2013 by Soniman

[Milo]

Theres also wall jumping, ledge grabbing, and ledge vaulting which DOES have a lot to do with actual parkour last time I chekced, so I don't know where you got the idea that it was "just wall running".

 

I did later note in my post that Lost World does have ledge grabbing abilities but I said they weren't used in an interesting way because the level/platform design were restricted to round planetoids and flat geometric blocks. As for the other abilities, yeah I missed those and I actually came back to edit my post to address those points before someone responded. But I'm2slow.

 

As for the other parkour abilities you've listed, wall jumping has been a staple of Sonic gameplay since Unleashed and ledge vaulting doesn't really seem to be used for anything other than...well, wall ledges. That's why I said the parkour abilities could be modified to give players more stuff to maneuver (vault) over.

 

I REALLY hesitate to call stuf like Unleashed actual wall running consideirng that there is zero momentum (which SLW had believe it or not), it's basically the same as regualr running excpet you are resricted to three lanes and it's all scripted, so how is that anything like actual wall running? and come to think of it it's usually the only time the quick step is even justified, in those "three lanes" areas, it sucks.

 

This I'll also admit you make a fair point, but I did distinguish the wall-running in Unleashed as a gameplay sequence rather than an actual (parkour) ability Sonic is able to do anytime.

 

Actual parkouring is what id call the 2D Area in Desert Ruins 1 whin Sonic has to constantly run up walls, jump between them, being fast on our feet when dodgin enemies, running upisde down and this is all in a effor to maintian your flow mind you, I get a more genuine feeling of accomplishment and control then a lot of the reacitonary crap in Unleashed honestly.

 

Unleashed also has this in their 2D sections (albeit without the ceiling running), so I don't know where you're going with this.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Gabe Scrooge

[Kuzu]

Isn't 2D wall jumping in LW more or less the same as it was in Unleashed, i.e. from one side to anothr.

[Soniman]

Isn't 2D wall jumping in LW more or less the same as it was in Unleashed, i.e. from one side to anothr.

 

Except you can run while doing it, so your not stationary and confined to a set "jump path" and it feels way less stiff and more free forming as a result.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

Except you can run while doing it, so your not stationary and confined to a set "jump path" and it feels way less stiff and more free forming as a result.

 

But if the result is the same(I.e. getting to the top of a ledge) how does it make it any better than Unleashed's? Like how does being "less stiff" and "free roaming" make it any better?

Edited November 20, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

But if the result is the same(I.e. getting to the top of a ledge) how does it make it any better than Unleashed's? Like how does being "less stiff" and "free roaming" make it any better?

 

I can control where im jumping? Im not ocmming to a dead stop while wall jumping? Spindashing whilst runnng on walls can be done? Like I don't get how it's activley not an improvement on this, isn't more control what we've been arguing for Sonic to have for years?

Edited November 20, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

I can control where im jumping? Im not ocmming to a dead stop while wall jumping? Like I don't get how it's activley not an improvement on this, isn't more control what we've been arguing for Sonic to have for years?

 

In this specific context, control was never really an issue tho; I mean did anybody really have a problem controlling Sonic's wall jumping in Unleashed? From the way you made it sound, I was under the impression you were saying Unleashed's wall jump was somehow finicky or uncontrollable, which is weird.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

In this specific context, control was never really an issue tho; I mean did anybody really have a problem controlling Sonic's wall jumping in Unleashed?

 

Nothing was wrong with how it contorlled in Unleashed, it worked as it should. but it's not liked having more control/options over it is a bad thing, no?

Edited November 20, 2013 by Soniman

[Diogenes]

But if the result is the same(I.e. getting to the top of a ledge) how does it make it any better than Unleashed's? Like how does being "less stiff" and "free roaming" make it any better?

The ability to play the game as you choose rather than following a specific predesigned sequence.

The fact that you have choices while doing it (more than "continue" or "stop", that is) is actually really important to being fun to use.

e: like, consider some of the wall running sections in the last two Rayman games (there's one at 0:35 here). The fact that you can run and jump means they can actually put obstacles in them, that force you to choose between continuing to run or jumping. Compare that to wall jumping without any other mechanics, which is basically just "tap A until finished".

Edited November 20, 2013 by Diogenes

[Kuzu]

Nothing was wrong with how it contorlled in Unleashed, it worked as it should. but it's not liked having more control/options over it is a bad thing, no?

Its not a bad thing, I just don't get how Unleashed is "bad" in this regard.

 

The ability to play the game as you choose rather than following a specific predesigned sequence.

The fact that you have choices while doing it (more than "continue" or "stop", that is) is actually really important to being fun to use.

 

And this makes sense when it comes to going down a set path, but in this case we're talking about a singular sequence of wall jumping; where more control or not, doesn't really make a difference in what you're trying to accomplish.

[Diogenes]

And this makes sense when it comes to going down a set path, but in this case we're talking about a singular sequence of wall jumping; where more control or not, doesn't really make a difference in what you're trying to accomplish.

See my edit above. You can't look at this purely in terms of the outcome. Having more control while wall jumping, having actual mechanics and meaningful choices, allows them to create meaningful gameplay from wall jumping, rather than it simply being a thing you do so you can get past it.

[Kuzu]

In the context of the video you posted; Ok, if there are obstacles in the way that you need to overcome, then I can understand, but does Lost World make those choices matter? As in, if you have so much free range on what you can or can't do, does it ultimately effect how the level plays out beyond the mere fact that you can control him. If not, then I'm not really obligated to see how it is such an improvement over Unleashed if it doesn't really lead to any more interesting outcomes, because ultimately your transversing the same terrain.

 

I understand the importance of more control, but it holds a lot more weight if that control can lead to different outcomes rather than control just for the sake of it. Like say if I was running up a wall and depending on my choice, I can get an even bigger reward for using my parkour skills in a creative way, then I can see where your coming from, but with Lost World's case, using Parkour most of the time doesn't lead to any interesting rewards if you didn't use it, unless its required by the level.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

I have to cite DR1 again, because there is section where wall running is indeed required to get an extra red ring or else you will miss it. There are some ssiilar cases likethat sprinkled through the game as well.

[Kuzu]

There needs to be far better rewards than just Super Sonic, especially since Red Rings don't do shit until you get all of them.

 

 

I was speaking moreso having your actions affect how you complete the level, really.

[Soniman]

If you mean like speedruns then yes good walljumping manevurs and clever use of the spindash also help with that kind of stuff.

[Kuzu]

I'm not a speedrunner; I was speaking specifically the level itself.

[Diogenes]

Options are important even if you aren't forced to use them.

[Tails spin]

Alright time for another one of my impression on my current status in the 3DS version

 

Tropical Coast 2:

I liked this level a lot in my initial test run of it. But the section were you had to defeat the badniks got annoying at the point where I had to destroy that ball with fireballs around it. Every time I would get hit by it and I would get pretty mad. Then I tried a kick somersault and the fire ball problem was solved. After that it made this level way more enjoyable to me and I like it a lot now.

 

Tropical Coast 3:

I have a love/hate relationship with this level. First off the Drill Wisp is not made for 3D gameplay. I would move up and it when down. It took and is still taking me a lot to get use to using it. That is my hate for the level. But I love the small sections were I can free roam around underwater in 3D. I don't know if the Wii U version give you that option. I love the Mach speed section over the tube of water and I really like but still have to get use to going up the whirlpool with the Drill Wisp.

 

Tropical Coast Boss:

Master Zik was to be honest a very interesting and sort of difficult boss. The control are a little tough here sense trying to move left stops you it your track when you are upside down. I liked that he had those fruits as a defense mechanism. Interesting that the Drill wisp can sort of give you an insta-kill.

[JezMM]

I just had a fiddle on 2P mode on Wii U after realising I hadn't even touched it.  Wow it's pretty bad.

 

Only the final checkpoint really matters since (due to limitations I assume) most stages force the losing player ahead whenever the winning player reaches a checkpoint.  Ring Race is completely pointless since you still lose all your rings if you get hit.  Naturally I was just playing by myself (with the other Sonic standing there) for fun, but even then on Lava Mountain I took damage literally in the last 3 seconds and lost 900+ rings.  One tiny mistake and the whole thing is shifted.

 

And finally, Tropical Coast 3 is ridiculous.  Die once and you won't make it to the end in the time limit, which... results in a Draw for some reason rather than just declaring the player in the lead as the winner?

 

 

I can see it being a fun mode for total experts at the game who just never die or take damage, but everyone else need not apply.

[jords]

I just had a fiddle on 2P mode on Wii U after realising I hadn't even touched it.  Wow it's pretty bad.

 

Only the final checkpoint really matters since (due to limitations I assume) most stages force the losing player ahead whenever the winning player reaches a checkpoint.  Ring Race is completely pointless since you still lose all your rings if you get hit.  Naturally I was just playing by myself (with the other Sonic standing there) for fun, but even then on Lava Mountain I took damage literally in the last 3 seconds and lost 900+ rings.  One tiny mistake and the whole thing is shifted.

 

And finally, Tropical Coast 3 is ridiculous.  Die once and you won't make it to the end in the time limit, which... results in a Draw for some reason rather than just declaring the player in the lead as the winner?

 

 

I can see it being a fun mode for total experts at the game who just never die or take damage, but everyone else need not apply.

 

Me and my cousin enjoyed this multiplayer, it was really fun,  somehow he got use of the controls faster than me.  Me and him go at it over and over again, it's actually one of our main multiplayer game to play when we go our rounds of playing our favourite multiplayer games.

 

The whole checkpoint thing is stupid, but we ignored it and still had our fun. Windy hill zone 3 and desert ruins zone 4 is our favorite zones to race in.

 

More courses would of been better though, like those speed running levels

 

But expert players would probably have more fun.

Edited November 21, 2013 by jordine

[MegasonicZX]

Sounds like a multiplayer thats right up my alley

 

(im just kidding im no expert but I do like my levels hard).

[Gregzilla]

Been letting the game sink in, and I've been thinking about the story quite a bit.  I've noticed most people on here seem to really enjoy it, many claiming it to be one of the best in the series.  I do not enjoy it that much, and I've been trying to pinpoint why.  I think I've realized what I dislike about it that didn't bother me in previous games, particularly compared to Colors:

 

Colors felt like it was trying to be a simple, fun story, and more or less succeeded.  Lost World tries to throw more plot elements in the mix, but the writing  and tone haven't evolved to match it.  It tries to be bigger, and therefore ends up just feeling like that much less of a success.

 

Take for instance, the scene where

Tails shoves Sonic out of the way to save him, getting captured and leaving Sonic dismayed.

That should feel important, right?  Well, it doesn't.  Because the writing is still very childish and cartoony, so that absolutely no tension is felt in this scene.  Sonic's emotions don't feel genuine because it's still being delivered in a very Saturday-morning fashion, and that just isn't that engaging.  On top of that, you've got the very generic cartoony cutscene music playing over moments like this.  It feels like you could have plucked these moments and characters from any lackluster kids' show on TV.  Older games in the series, while by no means GREAT in the story department, at least had an identity.  Unleashed had a bit of the generic music, but for the most part it had much nicer tunes to accentuate the story.  The Adventure games had more character interaction, way better music to add to scenes, and the stakes felt much higher.

 

When those games tried to be serious, they felt somewhat serious.  When Lost World tries to be serious, it still feels silly, as if they really aren't even trying at all.  Colors had this problem too, with the infamous Tails mind-control scene.  But I don't think Lost World has learned from scenes like that.  It tries to be bigger, and as a result, just face plants harder.

 

If you like the story, good for you, but personally, I'm really losing faith in this writing team.

[Soniman]

Regarding the music, I don't really think that's up to the writers.