Lost World: Discussion, Impressions and Fan Reviews

[Sami]

For the record, I do apologize if I was one of the members being annoying. Being an ass was never my intention.

[Carbuncle]

Perhaps?

 

PERHAPS?

 

Look, you're missing the point all over again. First off, it's not right to compare ArtFenix to Hogfather. Nepenthe explains why.

 

It's got nothing to do with who was right about anything about this game - it's got everything to do with blatant disregard for the respect of others, being constantly negative not because there were actual flaws to take into account, but because they wanted nothing to do with this game - I guarantee you that if the game had a grimdark storyline and more realistic graphics, ArtFenix would be defending this game with all of his might. He made it clear what his issues were, and they had nothing to do with the actual objective faults of the game - colorful art style, similarities to Mario, storyline that's anything less melodramatic than Sonic 06/SA2. That's it. You take those two criticisms and you build your entire opinion on the game based off of those qualities as if it makes a difference. It does not. But that isn't even the main issue we're discussing here:

 

Again, the problem isn't that he had a problem with the game - it was the attitude that went with it. There's no place for that here, as many have said before. I don't care if someone thinks SLW is the dang antichrist, they could at least stand to not indirectly insult people while riding their high horse.

 

Also, this is nothing like Sonic 4 where the game had a distinct precedent to follow - Sonic Lost World is not analogous to Sonic 4 in any respect. Sonic 4's fallout was due to a marketing miscommunication and overall failure to live up to a clearly set standard - Sonic Lost World was a completely brand new experience that could have ended up anywhere.

 

I'm only comparing them because they were some of the only members I saw who didn't think the game was the Holy Grail during reveals.

 

Man, I had no idea everyone hated ArtFenix. Have I hit a fucking nerve or something?

Edited October 23, 2013 by Carbuncle

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I'm only comparing them because they were some of the only members I saw who didn't think the game was the Holy Grail during reveals.

 

Man, I had no idea everyone hated ArtFenix. Have I hit a fucking nerve or something?

Not in the slightest by the looks of things.

 

It's not so much that Artfenix is "hated" but more so that his attitude towards this game and people looking forward to it, heck even people who find positives in it, (stemming from hatred of Lost World's aesthetics and lust for a grimdark story, mind you) has been terribly alienating.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Not in the slightest by the looks of things.

 

It's not so much that Artfenix is "hated" but more so that his attitude towards this game and people looking forward to it, heck even people who find positives in it, (stemming from hatred of Lost World's aesthetics and lust for a grimdark story, mind you) has been terribly alienating.

No point talking to a banned guy.

 

...How did that happen anyways?

[Sean]

Bandodging.

 

I don't think that was directed at you, Verte.

 

Correct.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

No point talking to a banned guy.

 

...How did that happen anyways?

Errr, I don't think he was banned at the time that I countered him. Still woah, how did that happen!?

Edited October 23, 2013 by Jovahexeon

[Narukami07]

Woah what the hell happened when i was gone??? O.o

[Nepenthe]

Generic arguments about the appropriateness of bragging and the banning of a bandodger. No need to continue harping on it; return to the normal discussion at hand. xP

[Sami]

I can't help but find it ironic that I dislike this game actually made me want Sonic Adventure 3. Anyone knows me should know what I mean. Nothing like Sonic Adventure 2 or the games that followed - a real sequel to Sonic Adventure. Unleashed is the closest thing to that, so it's a real shame the werehog had to kill its potential. Even then, the actual Sonic gameplay wasn't very similar anyway, so another shot at that Sonic Adventure gameplay and story would be awesome for me.

 

I've had my fill of Saturday Morning Sonic games. Colors was fantastic, Generations I was disappointed with story-wise, but ultimately forgiving of because of its status as an anniversary celebration (and nigh-on perfect gameplay in my eyes), but I'm seriously just bored of it now. I'm tired of Safe Sonic Team. I want to see some ambition again.

 

no plagiarising doesn't seem ambitious to me even if they haven't done it before

[Soniman]

no plagiarising doesn't seem ambitious to me even if they haven't done it before

 

And I ask again, how the heck is the new control scheme/style anything like Mario when nothing has ever been like it before? And that goes for Sonic......

 

Im starting to think that what people consider "Safe Sonic Team" nebulous criticism that doesn't really have a clear definition.

[MegasonicZX]

Eh, unless it has the multiple playable characters again it wouldn't really feel the same if we got another adventure game, alot of people may say it was bad but I really loved the genre roulette with the characters (minus big, fishing can go jump in a lake for all I care and adventure 1 knuckles was actually pretty fun so I wouldn't mind that back) and honestly I feel as though sega has always been pretty ambitious with their constant gameplay changes and I feel as though if they went back and redid some of them they could really make something good now that they have some experience but I will admit that it would be cool if we got the parkour gameplay in an adventure game.

[Sami]

And I ask again, how the heck is the new control scheme/style anything like Mario when nothing has ever been like it before? And that goes for Sonic......

 

Im starting to think that what people consider "Safe Sonic Team" nebulous criticism that doesn't really have a clear definition.

 

Because it looks like Mario, has levels that are designed like Mario, and has the same tone and feel as Mario. 

 

Come on, man. It's cool if you like the game, but it's really not some radical risk they're taking. It's very clear what they were trying to do - they saw that Mario Galaxy got shit-tons of praise and wanted to make a game that's similar. It's like saying Tomb Raider 2013 was some crazy new risk for Tomb Raider; it wasn't. It's "Uncharted But Darker and with a Girl". Do I still love it? Damn right I do. More than Uncharted, even. But it's pretty damn clear they played it extremely safe.

[Blue Blood]

Lost World is pretty damn ambitious in terms of gameplay. It's the first time they've really shaken up the Sonic formula. Even Unleashed isn't that much of a change. It's SA2 with a boost button.

I can still admire SLW for that, but it's as safe as safe can be in every other way. I've simply got to agree with you in saying that SLW makes me want another SA1, obvious issues aside. I don't think the series is going to deliver in that way any time soon though. SEGA seem rather happy with the Saturday morning TV show approach, and considering that we've got Sonic Boom on the horizon it'd be barmy for them to go and change the games away from that style. They'll want people who plays the games to watch the show, and vice versa.

Saying this has made me realise that alternate characters isn't even my biggest request for the series anymore. Sure it's definitely up there, but I'd settle for Sonic only again in a game that had much more in common with SA1.

[Soniman]

People always refer back to Unleashed when referring to "ambitious Sonic Team" yet they completely ripped off something that was popular at the time and was hoping it would get praise and adulation, just in case the actual Sonic gameplay wouldn't be seen as good. So again, this is why I feel the line between "safe" and "unsafe" Sonic Team is incredibly blurry.

 

Risky is what id call changing the gameplay even after the previous one got tons of praise anyway, they could have easily kept going with the boost games but they felt the need to try a different approach for what they felt was the right direction for Sonic. Sure I guess the graphics and maybe the level design (need to play the game for that part) isn't breaking any boundaries but it's a step in the right direction when it comes to risk taking imo.

[Sami]

People always refer back to Unleashed when referring to "ambitious Sonic Team" yet they completely ripped off something that was popular at the time and was hoping it would get praise and adulation, just in case the actual Sonic gameplay wouldn't be seen as good. So again, this is why I feel the line between "safe" and "unsafe" Sonic Team is incredibly blurry.

 

Risky is what id call changing the gameplay even after the previous one got tons of praise anyway, they could have easily kept going with the boost games but they felt the need to try a different approach for what they felt was the right direction for Sonic. Sure I guess the graphics and maybe the level design (need to play the game for that part) isn't breaking any boundaries but it's a step in the right direction when it comes to risk taking imo.

 

Fair enough as far as the Werehog goes. I won't deny everything behind that idea and its execution was completely asinine.

 

I disagree though. The level design, visuals, and tone are all very, very important parts of what makes the game... well, a game. The controls are different from Mario, yeah, but when my first thought after watching the trailer was "looks like Mario Galaxy" then I think that says a lot.

[Red Cap]

I dunno. I prefer the Saturday Morning Cartoon approach honestly. I like it when my Sonic games don't take themselves seriously.

[Kuzu]

Lost World is undeniably an ambitious game, with the new gameplay style and how it works but hampered down by it trying to be a Mario game. Yes, you can say the same thing about Unleashed with the Werehog, but that's only 50% of the game and other half is generally considered what 3D Sonic should be like.(even if I don't agree). They're not playing it as safe as they were in Colors or Generations, but they're still really not trying to branch out and instead just try to emulate what's popular.

 

I'm kind of glad so many people have pointed this out because hopefully it can inspire Sonic Team to stop trying to copy every other franchise and just make a fucking Sonic game already.

I dunno. I prefer the Saturday Morning Cartoon approach honestly. I like it when my Sonic games don't take themselves seriously.

 

Nobody is asking for Super uber grimdark, final fantasy atmosphere, gawd. Is it wrong to want a Sonic game to have a similar atmosphere to a Pixar film?

[Straw Hat]

It's been said, but I really hope the next game Sonic Team kinda go back to how things were with Colors, where it felt like they were doing their own thing. The Lost World gameplay could work well for the next title, if they just make it a bit faster and tighten physics in a way even more similar to the classics. The run trigger could also be more of a "hold it down and keep moving to increase your speed" type of deal, instead of just "hold it down to run". Same with the Spin Dash. 

I think tweaks like that, along with a more Sonic-ish level structure could help this formula grow and improve a bit more next time.

[Celestia]

Admittedly, I don't think the blatant Mario influence is going to effect my enjoyment of the game (positively or negatively), but in all honesty, I don't really want to see the general game design in future games. What I'm saying is, I'm okay with Mario-y as a one time thing.

 

Now, the core gameplay and Sonic's moveset are the things I definitely want to stick. Granted it doesn't look quite perfect, but it's pretty close to my ideal for Sonic. Take some inspiration from older 3D games in regards to how Sonic moves around and I'd be happy.

 

I will say that I'm okay with the Saturday morning direction in terms of story, though. What I've heard of this game in that regard is that it's character-driven and done pretty well, even if the plot isn't absolutely amazing or anything. I hope the writers listen to the criticisms and improve even more next time...assuming SEGA/Sonic Team let the writers have another shot, lol

Edited October 24, 2013 by ElementofChaos

[Narukami07]

It's been said, but I really hope the next game Sonic Team kinda go back to how things were with Colors, where it felt like they were doing their own thing. The Lost World gameplay could work well for the next title, if they just make it a bit faster and tighten physics in a way even more similar to the classics. The run trigger could also be more of a "hold it down and keep moving to increase your speed" type of deal, instead of just "hold it down to run". Same with the Spin Dash. 

I think tweaks like that, along with a more Sonic-ish level structure could help this formula grow and improve a bit more next time.

That, and focus on grounded-levels next time. I think the tube-like design is more of a one time thing if you think about it. Just....keep and refine SLW's mechanics more, stay away from adding boost (or at least gimp it heavily) and i'd be fine that.

[Red Cap]

Is it wrong to want a Sonic game to have a similar atmosphere to a Pixar film?

 

Dude, you must have misunderstood me. I don't think it's wrong to want that! I just like the way the series handles itself right now.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Red Cap-Blue Spikes

[Indigo Rush]

For story depth and tone, if we could get a mixture of what Lost World provided (the Saturday Morning cartoon vibe) with some of the intensity from the Adventure games, I think that'd be a good balance. I don't want things to go melodramatic or anything, and I really really really love the tone that Lost World went for, but if we're going to make compromises, this is what I think could work best.

 

The writing and character development from Lost World with some of the complexity from Adventure 2, I'd say. Nothing over the top, but nothing too basic, either. 

 

I still say Lost World hit the perfect balance, but a little more added depth couldn't hurt.

[Lady Soniko]

It's not wrong to want anything.

 

The annoying thing is, SEGA have tried so many genre and gameplay types that they've effectively created their own problem, where one fan likes the SA1 gameplay, another likes the Team aspect of Heroes, another likes the Rush Gameplay, another will like Unleashed's day time, others will like the slow, reserved nature of the Werehog platforming/battles.

 

SEGA have been too diverse over the years and have created their own problem of "not being able to please everyone" because they've split their fanbase so often with every couple of titles when "trying something new".

 

SEGA have done light hearted stories, melodramatic stories, grimdark stories, NO STORIES, and now "saturday morning approach" stories.

 

The series has given us so much selection over the years, that SEGA simply cannot appeal to everyone any more, and that goes for every aspect in their games, they could absolutely nail gameplay and level design, but I can guarantee you no matter when people say "having amazing gameplay and level design is much better than having a story so I don't care" people will STILL complain at a lack of story, character development etc. and people will make that a point to slanderize the game again.

 

SEGA have a habit of making games, good games but with HUGE "buts" 

 

This game is great fun, and the level design is amazing..."but" the story is lacking, the characterization is horrendous.

 

This game has amazing character interaction, voice acting and a brilliant story...."but" the gameplay is flat, boring and unimaginative.

 

You see the pattern here? Recently, SEGA feels like they're making half a game, they nail some aspects, but the aspects they don't nail lets down the overall experience and because it's Sonic, this is a big, big problem with both the fanbase and the general gaming consensus.

[Nepenthe]

It might help the dilemma then to look for instances of overlap, where Sega can make a design decision that can kill two birds with one stone. It makes no sense, for example, to cater to people who don't like stories in the games by ignoring other subsets of the population who do like stories and writing shit ones. By creating a story that's both engaging yet skippable, you're effectively catering to two parties at the same time. The people who like stories can enjoy it, and the people who don't can simply not bother.

[Lady Soniko]

It might help the dilemma then to look for instances of overlap, where Sega can make a design decision that can kill two birds with one stone. It makes no sense, for example, to cater to people who don't like stories in the games by ignoring other subsets of the population who do like stories and writing shit ones. By creating a story that's both engaging yet skippable, you're effectively catering to two parties at the same time. The people who like stories can enjoy it, and the people who don't can simply not bother.

 

Yeah that's true..."but" What's to say they won't put enough into a story to make it substantial? In turn pissing off fans who want an engaging story along with their experience, in the end if a story is bad then there is no point in adding a story to begin with if it's simply going to disappoint, but then the cycle repeats itself, lack of story > upset fans who want story > critical low in game > mediocre half assed game.

 

It's unfair but I think SEGA have literally spoiled us with so much selection that they simply cannot appease to everyone, so they continue to play it safe, and in some regards we get a story, but it's not a great one, so we cry out for something bigger and more engaging.

 

Then we get games like Secret Rings, Black Knight, Unleashed etc. Great stories, Great characterization, big scale problems, big scale pay offs.... Terrible gameplay, too many gimmicks, games that play themselves in automation, bad level design, bad ideas like quick time events where the only outcome is death if you aren't fast enough, having to memorize a level just so you can traverse it to maintain flow and speed. Half a good game, Half a lacking..."disappointing" experience.