Eggman: Eggceptional Employer or Bad Boss?

[Dr. Mechano]

We've had many in-depth discussions about the way Dr. Eggman interacts with his enemies, be they heroes or rival villains. Today we're going to talk about Eggman's relationship with his minions. What's it like to work for Dr. Eggman? Let's take a look at the series for some perspective!

 

I'm forgoing the classic games here, because honestly, Eggman didn't really have much interaction - good or bad - with his lackeys. There was that time he smashed Metal Sonic in Sonic CD, but that was an accident, so let's move on to the modern era for this one.

 

Chaos - Honestly, Eggman was pretty nice - if somewhat condescending - to the destructive deity. He almost seemed to treat him more like a pet than a minion or partner in crime, even referring to him as "my pet" and even "my friend" on one occasion. It was only after Chaos's betrayal that Eggman went after him with guns blazing, calling him a "stupid beast."

 

Beta - At first, it looks like Eggman's going to totally scrap Beta for losing in his sparring match with Gamma. Far from it, though, Eggman has Beta upgraded and refitted with new laser blasters and jet boosters. Beta almost seemed to be Eggman's favorite in this game, getting preferential treatment even after losing.

 

Gamma - Interestingly, Eggman was never particularly cruel to Gamma either. He said that he was proud of him and continually heaped praise upon the robot. If anything, Gamma's betrayal was motivated less by resentment toward Eggman and more by a distaste toward what the doctor was doing, particularly to the innocent animals that powered robots just like him. Whether it was a stroke of conscience or subtle influence from the Flickey within, Gamma rebelled and ultimately destroyed himself... only to be later rebuilt - sans bird - in Sonic Battle.

 

Delta, Zeta, and Epsilon - These guys are interesting too. Rather than destroying these three for failing him, Eggman just teleports them off the Egg Carrier, leaving them on their own to defend themselves. This is probably the closest thing Eggman's ever done to "firing" his robots, as they were essentially left without a boss and - ergo - without a job. And really, what kind of legitimate employment can a former Badnik get in the world, anyway? 

 

Shadow and Rouge - Eggman treated these two more like partners in crime than henchmen. When Rouge asks if "we [will] control the planet and can do as we choose," he doesn't correct her either, which indicates that he may have indeed planned to let the two have some position of power in his new world (beneath him of course). Actually, with Rouge being a spy and Shadow bent on revenge, Eggman is the only member of SA2's Team Dark who wasn't double-crossing the others.

 

Omega - All we really know about Omega is that Eggman assigned him guard duty of the captive Shadow the Hedgehog, effectively confining him to one room rather than letting him on the battlefield, where he'd have preferred to be. There's really no indication that Eggman was cruel to Omega, and it seems more that Omega was just angry at being given an unenjoyable assignment.

 

Metal Sonic - No clear motive was given for Metal Sonic's betrayal either, but it looks like Eggman might have valued him more than Omega, since he repaired him (and conveniently wiped the memories of his betrayal to avoid any awkwardness later). Of note, unlike Omega, Metal didn't want Eggman dead; He could've killed him, but instead just locked him up so he wouldn't interfere with his plan. While that's a very minute thing to focus on, it may indicate that Metal Sonic - even during his betrayal - had some natural concern for his creator's well-being.

 

Captain Whisker, Johnny, and Crew - We never actually see Eggman and Eggman Nega interact with these robots, but Whisker alludes to the mad scientists with fear and awe toward the end of the game. Doesn't tell us much about their relationship, but the Captain definitely recognizes how potentially dangerous the two are.

 

Egg Fighters (Unleashed) - Minor, but important to mention. In Eggmanland's hub, the Egg Fighters are fully self-aware and speak highly of Eggman, wanting to do their best to please their boss. One even unknowingly strikes up a friendly conversation with Sonic and, unaware of who he's talking to, casually mentions how he plans to take Sonic out and make Eggman proud of him. At the very least, this proves that Eggman gives some (if not all) of his common grunt Badniks fully sentient personalities, which is definitely interesting.

 

Dark Gaia(?) - Dark Gaia never technically worked for Eggman, and only inadvertently powered up Eggmanland. Eggman seemed to think Dark Gaia was in his employ, though, and enthusiastically cheered him on to smash Super Sonic before being unceremoniously blasted away himself.

 

Orbot and Cubot - The latest in Eggman's line of minions, Eggman is grouchy, impatient, and generally irritated with his two henchmen... and yet, they're probably the closest thing Eggman has to "friends" in the entire franchise. His demeanor around them is a lot less formal or commanding than with previous minions, despite slapping them around a little. Goofy antics aside, they may have some rank or prestige in the Eggman Empire as well, as Eggman trusts them (well, Orbot at least) with manning the control panels of some of his important bases and machines. The two can be unreliable and even snarky toward their boss at times, but they seem to be - by far - the most loyal robots Eggman has, sticking by his side even at his worst (though Orbot isn't above openly pointing out his boss's failures when they do happen).

 

I do think there may be some genuine affection for Orbot and Cubot. In both Colors and Lost World, Eggman spends a considerable amount of time trying to repair Cubot (voice in Colors, body in Lost World), even when doing so has no real effect on his immediate plans. And he is grateful and polite toward Orbot for his sandwiches in Unleashed. Of course, any positive regard he has for these two is usually outweighed by his utter annoyance with them, so it usually isn't all that apparent. He's still definitely not the nicest guy to work for, but Eggman, Orbot, and Cubot have this charming - if somewhat dysfunctional - family dynamic at times. 

 

The Zeti - These guys were unabashed slaves, no two ways about it. While Eggman is certainly inconsiderate to Orbot and Cubot, he at least does show a range of positive treatment toward his robots, who in Lost World were definitely treated preferentially compared to the Zeti. He was downright nasty to the Deadly Six, though they were certainly no nice guys themselves. About the only positive thing that can be said here is that Eggman gave Zommom a sandwich.

 

My analysis? Eggman isn't a nice leader by any means, but he is a pragmatic one. He knows better than to be intentionally cruel for cruelty's sake, and with a track record of getting betrayed all the time, certainly understands that his minions need some incentive to work for him. His goal may not be to be liked, but he recognizes that it's definitely better to be feared than outright hated.

 

What are your thoughts on this topic? I'm interested in hearing what you have to say!

Edited October 31, 2013 by Count Mechano

[Vertekins]

I think that Eggman is actually a pretty ruthless 'employer'

 

He treats his prized E-Series gunner robots in Adventure with complete apathy, dismissing them for their failures angrily and torturously remodeling Beta for his failure against Gamma because he only required one winner on his ship. It's not like he even really kept tabs on his robots when he had bigger business to attend to. I mean, was he ever aware of Gamma's rebellion? And was he ever enlightened to the destruction of Beta, Delta, Epsilon and Zeta by their 'brother'? Come to think of it, was he ever aware of Gamma's destruction?

 

It seems perhaps a bit odd how he continued using Gamma's basic design for other robots such as E-1000 in SA2 and Chaos Gamma in Battle if he was indeed aware that Gamma was a turncoat. Perhaps he was fond of the design and isn't aware of what Gamma did?

 

In SA2, if Rouge is failing to gather the emeralds in the Security Hall in a timely manner, Eggman will express his discontent over the walkie talkie in a rather intolerant way and there was absolutely no indication that her safety or her rescue was ever his priority. Indeed, the only discontent he expresses is that she spoiled his plans if she fails to gather all three emeralds in five minutes.

 

I think he had a soft spot for Metal Sonic before it's betrayal. He does seem perceptibly put-out when he admits to the Chaotix who locked him up as if he's hurt by Metal's actions and he did rescue Metal Sonic from Stardust Speedway after it's failure against Sonic, even presumably building Mad Gear zone for the purpose of fixing it. And then when it failed against Sonic and Tails in S4 ep 2, he put it into stasis inside Final Egg to preserve it. It's sensible to believe that Metal Sonic is one of, if not his greatest creation and therefore he treats it with something akin to fondness.

 

He seemingly reached the end of his tether with it's independent streak as evidenced by how he 'punished' it by re-programming it's AI chip so that it's completely loyal to him. Better to have a loyal battle mech than one with designs on domination after all...

 

I think this propensity for camaraderie with his creations is actually shown in Lost World when he expresses something akin to jealousy when Orbot expresses the desire to be Sonic's sidekick.

 

As for the Zeti, his reasons for punishing them came off as rather fickle to me. I mean punishing them for merely bringing back 'low quality' animals? Expecting of them something he can't actually do himself and then once again punishing them when they fail? I can't say I really blame the Zeti for biting back.

[Dr. Crusher]

It's all about pragmatism to me, and only that. Robotnik is an evil genius with a 300 IQ, so it only makes sense that he would know that treating his minions like rubbish completely would likely backfire on him... however, I think that actually makes Robotnik's own way of treatment potentially worse, because he's being clever about it, or in other words, he's using means to essentially seduce the minions to stick around just so that he can secretly dig at them once again, because, hey, the guy gave you a giant sandwich, right? That totally makes up for all those other times in which he used that shell to give you seething pain, doesn't it?

 

The Deadly Six are probably the best example of Robotnik's unique brand of callous cruelty, but I think the E-Series as a whole is another good example. Robotnik might not think anything of "remodifying" Beta, but it looked a little bit like robot torture from Gamma's point of view. As for the other three, "firing" them might come off as silly, but because serving Robotnik was their only purpose, they now have to walk the earth - until they're inevitably destroyed in some way - knowing for the rest of their existence that they've forever failed their master, and there's nothing they can do to redeem themselves. It's actually pretty depressing when you think about it, and sure enough, what are Delta, Epsilon and a comically gigantic and Dreamcast-Legoified Zeta doing when Gamma encounters them? ...Nothing, from the looks of it. They're just sort of sitting around, moping as only robots can mope.

 

As for Omega, whatever happened to him, I expect Robotnik was cruel to him, because while Omega isn't the most heroic character in the Sonic series, he is still - ultimately - one of the good guys, especially when compared against his master. The doctor mistreating him in some way would sound like a more believable reason for Omega to rebel, at least in my opinion.

[Dr. Mechano]

I think that Eggman is actually a pretty ruthless 'employer'

 

He treats his prized E-Series gunner robots in Adventure with complete apathy, dismissing them for their failures angrily and torturously remodeling Beta for his failure against Gamma because he only required one winner on his ship. It's not like he even really kept tabs on his robots when he had bigger business to attend to. I mean, was he ever aware of Gamma's rebellion? And was he ever enlightened to the destruction of Beta, Delta, Epsilon and Zeta by their 'brother'? Come to think of it, was he ever aware of Gamma's destruction?

I never interpreted Beta's remodeling as torturous, but I suppose that scene could be ambiguous. To remodel a robot, you kind of have take some parts off and put other parts on. 

 

You do raise an excellent point about Eggman completely forgetting about the E-series though. He may have essentially "fired" three of them, but it's telling that he didn't bother to even look for Beta or Gamma, who were still in his employ as far as he knew at the time. He was too preoccupied with Chaos, I suppose - The new "favorite minion" of the moment.

 

In SA2, if Rouge is failing to gather the emeralds in the Security Hall in a timely manner, Eggman will express his discontent over the walkie talkie in a rather intolerant way and there was absolutely no indication that her safety or her rescue was ever his priority. Indeed, the only discontent he expresses is that she spoiled his plans if she fails to gather all three emeralds in five minutes.

 

That's true too.

 

Oddly, he actually does sound concerned when he radios Shadow. "Shadow! What are you doing?! Hurry up and get out of there before the island blows up with you on it!"

 

Maybe he saw Shadow as a more valuable ally than Rouge, since - at the time - Rouge did still have the Chaos Emeralds and Eggman's plan still would've been ruined if the island had exploded. I guess Eggman was playing favorites again in SA2, with Shadow this time instead of Chaos.

 

 

 

I think he had a soft spot for Metal Sonic before it's betrayal. He does seem perceptibly put-out when he admits to the Chaotix who locked him up as if he's hurt by Metal's actions and he did rescue Metal Sonic from Stardust Speedway after it's failure against Sonic, even presumably building Mad Gear zone for the purpose of fixing it. And then when it failed against Sonic and Tails in S4 ep 2, he put it into stasis inside Final Egg to preserve it. It's sensible to believe that Metal Sonic is one of, if not his greatest creation and therefore he treats it with something akin to fondness.

 

He seemingly reached the end of his tether with it's independent streak as evidenced by how he 'punished' it by re-programming it's AI chip so that it's completely loyal to him. Better to have a loyal battle mech than one with designs on domination after all...

Metal Sonic makes independent decisions in Sonic Rivals 2, even though he's loyal to Eggman in this game, so he may still have some presence of mind despite the memory loss.

 

It's vague on exactly what Eggman did to Metal's memories. Did he wipe everything or just his memories of the betrayal? Because there's a pretty big difference between the two.

 

 

I think this propensity for camaraderie with his creations is actually shown in Lost World when he expresses something akin to jealousy when Orbot expresses the desire to be Sonic's sidekick.

 

Definitely.

 

I love how he doesn't really order Orbot to stop talking to Sonic either. He instead acts like a jealous friend here, annoyed at the prospect of Orbot liking Sonic over him (kind of an unintentional inverse of Tails's jealousy toward Sonic's trust of Eggman).

 

Of course, even if he feels somewhat affectionately toward Orbot and Cubot, it's that selfish kind of affection. They validate him and make him feel important and cared for. In this way, even if their relationship could be described as a sort of friendship, it's a dysfunctional one, wherein Eggman is far more concerned with being liked and cared about than actually caring for them himself. 

 

As for the Zeti, his reasons for punishing them came off as rather fickle to me. I mean punishing them for merely bringing back 'low quality' animals? Expecting of them something he can't actually do himself and then once again punishing them when they fail? I can't say I really blame the Zeti for biting back.

 

Yeah, no doubt, Eggman treated the Zeti horribly. There was no pretense of partnership as with Chaos or Shadow; He just straight-up enslaved them from the very beginning. Indefensible of course, but perhaps he was just being cautious after his attempts to win over ancient monsters with persuasion alone (Chaos, Dark Gaia, etc.) didn't work out so well.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Count Mechano

[Emmett L. Brown]

I consider it interesting that almost every single self-aware robot Eggman has ever programmed either turns against him or decides to ignore Eggman's orders in favor of their own ambitions. Orbot and Cubot are the most interesting examples, because the doctor could obviously have programmed them to be obedient yes-men praising his every action, but instead they're mocking, frequently disobedient, openly question Eggman's schemes, and take pleasure in pointing out when Sonic's thwarted the evil plan of the day. The only reason they don't openly rebel seems to be their lack of physical fortitude and threat of getting a slap to the head.

 

Rather than being a sloppy programmer, I think Eggman deliberately (either sub-consciously or not) designs his minions to challenge himself. His ego needs an opponent to try his ideas and inventions against, and since he can't have Sonic standing around in his lab making wise-ass remarks, the next best thing is having assistants that are programmed to have an innate hostility. Alternatively, he may have discovered that his inventive genius is at its best when he's aggravated. Adversity certainly brings out the most impressive giant boss robots in Eggman.

[Tani Coyote]

Treating your minions with some level of care is always a good idea. If your relationship is built on fear, what keeps them in line when there's nothing left to fear? That's the real reason the good guys win at the end of the day: they've actually built real emotional bonds that cause them to stick together. Bad guys almost always just tear each other apart out of personal greed and vengeance for past abuse.

What I can add to this is it worries me if all robots have consciousness like the Egg Fighters. Sonic is now a mass murderer, unless he's one of those speciesist who would say it's impossible for a robot to have a soul just like a human or animal... *nervous laughter* ...right? If nothing else it reflects on Eggman's generosity (or lack of foresight) that he'd bestow so many minions with sentience; I always assumed he'd do that just because he was lonely, myself. I doubt he has any family and he can't really make friends the traditional way... so why not make an army of friends in the factory?

I consider it interesting that almost every single self-aware robot Eggman has ever programmed either turns against him or decides to ignore Eggman's orders in favor of their own ambitions. Orbot and Cubot are the most interesting examples, because the doctor could obviously have programmed them to be obedient yes-men praising his every action, but instead they're mocking, frequently disobedient, openly question Eggman's schemes, and take pleasure in pointing out when Sonic's thwarted the evil plan of the day. The only reason they don't openly rebel seems to be their lack of physical fortitude and threat of getting a slap to the head.

I think that's an inherent part of consciousness, ultimately; one generally receives free will as part of the package. We generally will obey our parents and try to make them happy ourselves, but at the same time, we only do it because we want to; we have our own goals and when they don't line up with our parents', well, we generally will choose ours instead of theirs.

 

Rather than being a sloppy programmer, I think Eggman deliberately (either sub-consciously or not) designs his minions to challenge himself. His ego needs an opponent to try his ideas and inventions against, and since he can't have Sonic standing around in his lab making wise-ass remarks, the next best thing is having assistants that are programmed to have an innate hostility. Alternatively, he may have discovered that his inventive genius is at its best when he's aggravated. Adversity certainly brings out the most impressive giant boss robots in Eggman.

Excellent points all around! It's always good to have a habitual critic on your payroll: they will often spot flaws that a person would miss, whether out of simple error or hubris. Yes, it may irk one to be the butt of constant critiques, but how will you improve if someone doesn't call out your failures?

[Dr. Homem]

One thing to consider, Eggman is passionate about his work. We know how arrogant he is, and it stands to reason that he would hold his creations with some level of esteem. After all, they are the products of his work, and obviously he would believe that work to be better than anyone else's. I believe that explains why, regardless of how the doctor treats his employees in general, he consistently treats his machines better than other characters, such as Rouge or the Deadly Six. I find that to fit right in with his personality.

 

Still, Eggman is an effective manager, and has no issue with being harsher if it's necessary to achieve his goal - or ignoring characters who are not important at the moment. That explains why he's so quick to dismiss the E-Series when they're no longer useful, despite his appreciation of the robots.

 

Now here's the interesting part: Ivo is nice enough to his workers to prevent betrayal and capable of taking a hard line with them when necessary, both of which are examples of the aforementioned pragmatism. The fact that in most occasions he knows the time to be nice and the time to be demanding confirms his leading skills in varied situations, which makes sense considering he was able to build a massive empire. It would be great to see Eggman having this type of interaction more often as it truly displays his intelligence to use his minions in the most effective manner. Especially when there are different levels of subordination going on.

[Vertekins]

It's vague on exactly what Eggman did to Metal's memories. Did he wipe everything or just his memories of the betrayal? Because there's a pretty big difference between the two.

 

Metal Sonic's Sonic Channel profile states that "it was returned to its place as an obedient battle mech, by Dr. Eggman's hand."

 

I guess that it can safely said that Metal had his free will and domineering behavior erased from his AI chip and now only takes actions that could be interpreted as being an independent decision for self-preservation.

[Your Vest Friend]

The guy isn't exactly a father to his men like Bowser is, that's for sure. 

 

...I don't have an analysis of army behaviours. 

[Scar]

I think that he started out not giving a shit about his robots. Trying to use them to win, in a cold and detached fashion. However, I think in recent games....there may have been a small change. If my hypothesis is correct I think this change would be a good thing.

See, I think he cares about Orbot and Cubot. Sure he gets mad at their incompetence and general tomfoolery, but deep down, beneath all that cold blubber, he actually cares about them. I mean at this point, after so many losses (which no doubt has affected his psyche, see: Lost Worlds and some parts of Generations), Orbot and Cubot are basically his only friends.

And I think that, if true, would make Eggman into a much deeper character. It would mean that his character isn't static. Its changed after so many losses.

In fact, I'm sure that this kind of idea, could be used to turn Eggman into a much threatening Villain.

[JezMM]

I'll give this topic a proper read later, seems like a good'un, but I just want to say I cannot BELIEVE you didn't spell the topic title as Eggceptional.

 

 

EDIT: This issue has been remedied and as such the topic is now worth reading.

Edited October 31, 2013 by JezMM

[InfinityAlex]

Hm...Eggman did let Zazz have his fun fighting Sonic. Even if Eggman wanted Sonic smashed, he knew Zazz would enjoy the fight and thus picked him first. You can tell just by his line and the way he says it. I think there must be something redeeming about him for Orbot and Cubot that we haven't seen, as they *do*

find him and dig up at the end of Lost World, even if there was the ulterior motive of getting physically seperated.

[Uraraka]

I think he could make a good boss in most cases, I mean, if he had better intentions. However, Don't forget to list that he was a terrible employer to a certain someone (you all get irritated because of course I would mention ) Knuckles! I think he took advantage him in the most evil way and then just abused him  in Sonic 3.

  So i guess it depends who he is an employer too.

[Your Vest Friend]

Eggman wasn't an employer to Knuckles. 

[InfinityAlex]

Yeah, never an employer. If anything, he was partner in crime, which still isn't accurate as he used Knuckles. You hear that, Knucklesgirl?! Knuckles is nothing more than a tool! How d'ya feel now?

[Ratcicle King]

I never interpreted Beta's remodeling as torturous, but I suppose that scene could be ambiguous. To remodel a robot, you kind of have take some parts off and put other parts on. 

 

You do raise an excellent point about Eggman completely forgetting about the E-series though. He may have essentially "fired" three of them, but it's telling that he didn't bother to even look for Beta or Gamma, who were still in his employ as far as he knew at the time. He was too preoccupied with Chaos, I suppose - The new "favorite minion" of the moment.

 

That's true too.

 

Oddly, he actually does sound concerned when he radios Shadow. "Shadow! What are you doing?! Hurry up and get out of there before the island blows up with you on it!"

 

Maybe he saw Shadow as a more valuable ally than Rouge, since - at the time - Rouge did still have the Chaos Emeralds and Eggman's plan still would've been ruined if the island had exploded. I guess Eggman was playing favorites again in SA2, with Shadow this time instead of Chaos.

 

Metal Sonic makes independent decisions in Sonic Rivals 2, even though he's loyal to Eggman in this game, so he may still have some presence of mind despite the memory loss.

 

It's vague on exactly what Eggman did to Metal's memories. Did he wipe everything or just his memories of the betrayal? Because there's a pretty big difference between the two.

 

Definitely.

 

I love how he doesn't really order Orbot to stop talking to Sonic either. He instead acts like a jealous friend here, annoyed at the prospect of Orbot liking Sonic over him (kind of an unintentional inverse of Tails's jealousy toward Sonic's trust of Eggman).

 

Of course, even if he feels somewhat affectionately toward Orbot and Cubot, it's that selfish kind of affection. They validate him and make him feel important and cared for. In this way, even if their relationship could be described as a sort of friendship, it's a dysfunctional one, wherein Eggman is far more concerned with being liked and cared about than actually caring for them himself. 

 

Yeah, no doubt, Eggman treated the Zeti horribly. There was no pretense of partnership as with Chaos or Shadow; He just straight-up enslaved them from the very beginning. Indefensible of course, but perhaps he was just being cautious after his attempts to win over ancient monsters with persuasion alone (Chaos, Dark Gaia, etc.) didn't work out so well.

The whole enslaving the Zeti and treating them like garbage could be pretty reasonable if you consider how his situation is: After only God knows how many times trying to control monsters, he decides he's done goofing around by simply trusting them to get betrayed, yes, that doesn't explain treating them that way, but when you consider that RIGHT WHEN HE GOT THERE Zavok pretty much said ''Yo, Imma kill you 'cuz you're in my planet'', showing that even the slightest fuck-up could cost him his life, and unlike the Time Eater, he didn't turn them into robots, all he did was use the conch to hurt them into submission, if he loses that conch for a second, he's DEAD.

And considering on some cutscenes, EVEN WITH THE CONCH, the Six still proved somewhat rebellious to him, implying that the six would try to get back at him at the first chance they get, if he doesn't have the conch when that happens, he's boned, with that in mind, what does Eggman do? Tries to scare them into respecting him, using the conch everytime they fail, making them fear him so they wouldn't try and betray him ever, so that they would fear failing to him again, he's pretty much training them like if they were a wild pet he's trying to keep under his control, and that's not too far from the truth on that case. He needs to show them he's someone stronger than them, scarier than them, and a complete monster more than they will ever be, or else they'll simply keep considering him a stupid fat bossy idiot who's conch is the only thing that keeps them from killing him, and thus would never stop trying to rebel, or plan behind his back.

[Jet Prower]

I think you all have pretty much already hit the nail on the head with most of this here. Eggman isn't exactly the best at what he does, but that is what you get for being evil as well. Loyalty is not something that is usually very easy to get when your goal is evil instead of good. Good people can often build trust and loyalty, while evil cannot, thus they sometimes end up waisting time fighting each other as well instead of always fighting the good guys. When they do stop bickering, you see it all the time, that the good guys get a pretty big  hurting, until the bad guys start fighting again as their alliances break apart. Eggman is no different here.

 

Eggman is only treating a lot of his bots and allies okay, until he doesn't need them anymore and is happy to try and throw them away. Yes, Orbot and Cubot are slight exceptions to this, and likely since they don't have great size as well and aren't exactly in a great way to rebel against Eggman, he doesn't really bother them and such like that. Plus, they are the people that can pick at his work, which really is a good help if he wants to improve. Having someone around to pick at your builds and point out flaws can improve someone a lot, but only if you are willing to accept criticism but Eggman really isn't one to accept it.

 

Being evil is just the main downfall to most control is all. Evil people don't trust, and there is always betrayal flying all over the place. There may be some here and there, but due to the boss being evil, you just can't seem to get that same level of results that the good guys tend to get, since they are much more willing to work together and not always be fighting each other or thinking they may have to eventually fight with each other once things are done.

[E-122-Psi]

I kinda like the status he has, which as many say is pragmatic, knowing to put them in their place should they get too cocky, but smart enough to know what happens to most Bad Bosses that kick their minions around in gratuitous excess (something the likes of Julian in Satam and Archie seemingly never caught on to until it was too late). 

 

I kinda feel how he programs his bots sorta makes sense considering his ego, it's not good enough for just him to know he's clever, he needs other at least vaguely intelligent life to agree with it. He values life to some degree, just without all the annoying defects such as impudence and ambitions outside him. I think it's what makes his whole 'turning animals into robots' concept seem less horrific, badniks such as the E-Series still have some basic sentience and even the ability to ponder and even argue among each other. In a way he's giving the animals 'improved' forms, ones that are still alive, but with stronger bodies and their personalities refined according to his needs. Still kinda monstrous, but not completely so.

 

It's hard to say what happened with Omega, since they explained so little of his origin. I kinda liked how Archie introduced him since it actually shown first hand his brief serving of the doctor, immediately defying him because he didn't give him an impressive enough job, and then spending the remainder of his run sulking until eventually decided to just screw the whole thing. Gave sort of a rebellious teen dynamic to the whole thing, arguing and defying his guardian because he didn't think they were cool enough but yet still sort of craving their attention, destroying their possessions and just generally trying to piss them off in hopes they realize what an awesome kid they undermined. In this sense you actually have to wonder if Omega's hatred for Eggman will last, since such dynamics tend to be very fickle the moment they realize the guardian may have something they want or even just shows them the slightest respect they crave.

 

He was a high order bad boss in Lost World, but as mentioned the Deadly Six weren't loyal subordinates. They were clearly ax crazy monsters who hated the doctor and the conch was likely about the one thing preventing them just crushing him like a bug for a quick giggle. Even then he seemed to wait until they rebuked him until he used it at first, and seemed willing to try bribe the likes of Zomom with a small reward first, though wastes no time making them squirm when he starts losing his patience with their failure. I could argue this sort of struggle for power was what gave the Deadly Six more substance than the other generic Eggman duping monsters of before (and allowed the doctor to retain some amount of credibility after being betrayed). Eggman actually had a means of keeping them in line and stood a chance of controlling them, compared to previous encounters where it was only a matter of time before the new ally swatted Eggman away when he'd got them as far as needed. The Deadly Six had an obstacle and were in a position they had to treat him as something more than a gullible patsy.

Edited October 31, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Dr. Crusher]

I think it's what makes his whole 'turning animals into robots' concept seem less horrific, badniks such as the E-Series still have some basic sentience and even the ability to ponder and even argue among each other. In a way he's giving the animals 'improved' forms, ones that are still alive, but with stronger bodies and their personalities refined according to his needs. Still kinda monstrous, but not completely so.

 

I'll respectfully disagree entirely with that. It comes off to me like Robotnik is creating his own mechanical "parodies" of real human/animal emotions, almost as if to mock it.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Dr. Crusher

[E-122-Psi]

I'll respectfully disagree entirely with that. It comes off to me like Robotnik is creating his own mechanical "parodies" of real human/animal emotions, almost as if to mock it.

Maybe, but I tend to see his attempts at life at least partially sincere, since he talks and communicates with them frequently. He praised Gamma whenever he did something right and berated the others when they screwed up. He seemed willing to even humor Beta after he begged for a second chance. Eggman seems like he actually values some sort of intelligent life to interact with, just diluted to all the good bits that compliment him.

 

As said Eggman is an egotist, and egotists THRIVE on having other people around to confirm their greatness. He probably couldn't last completely on his own. It somewhat makes sense why so many versions use the comedic duo of minions skit, since it works perfectly with his personality. Two intelligent lifeforms, but noticeably lower on the scale than Eggman that he can bounce his ego trips off of. Why two? Because it's the bare minimum needed to show they have personalities outside groveling that would make their respect for him more worthwhile (not to mention is a shrewd way of bringing out emotions and opinions they may not want him to know about, they'll say whatever he wants to him, but they'll say what they really think to a partner when they think he's out of earshot).

Edited October 31, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Dr. Crusher]

Maybe, but I tend to see his attempts at life at least partially sincere, since he talks and communicates with them frequently. He praised Gamma whenever he did something right and berated the others when they screwed up. He seemed willing to even humor Beta after he begged for a second chance. Eggman seems like he actually values some sort of intelligent life to interact with, just diluted to all the good bits that compliment him.

 

As said Eggman is an egotist, and egotists THRIVE on having other people around to confirm their greatness. He probably couldn't last completely on his own.

 

Well yeah, you said it yourself, they're his robots. Of course he's going to praise his own robots. If they were other robots, let alone anyone else, I imagine things would be different (see: Rouge or the Deadly Six). When he's praising one of his robots, he's basically praising himself.

 

And let's not forget that the immediate moment the E-Series start to run out of use, he wastes no time in sending them away to walk the earth as failures.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Dr. Crusher

[E-122-Psi]

That is true, but as said he is still pragmatic. He values life but isn't specific or compassionate about it, it's like when a fickle jerkass thinks they've found a more relatable or impressive friend and dumps their previous ones on the spot. The old E-Series didn't entertain him anymore so he dumped them any old place that he doesn't have to acknowledge their existance and begins coddling his new 'cooler' pets, Chaos and Gamma (with Gamma himself quickly getting set aside afterwards). He doesn't go out of his way to be callous (he even gives his old bots one last upgrade), he just decides they're old news and they're on their own.

Edited October 31, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Dr. Crusher]

Even then, I think he only gave Beta an "upgrade" because he had no idea on what else to do with him, and because the robot was trying to be all up in his face about not getting to join the Egg Carrier crew, Robotnik decided "Right, this will teach you." And again, from Gamma's point of view, it looked a tad like mechanical torture.

 

Again, any sense of "value" he has for his machines is, at least to me, merely a combination of pragmatism and self-pleasing, and nothing else.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Dr. Crusher

[Kiah]

As for Dr. Eggman being either an exceptional employer or a bad boss, nearly everything that came to mind for me has been covered in this topic already and then some. If I may though, I would like to touch on Dr. Eggman's rapport with Orbot and Cubot.

 

Even though for example Dr. Eggman called Cubot an "idiot" and threw a wrench at him (Sonic Colors), left Orbot and Cubot behind in space (Sonic Generations) and shoved Orbot and Cubot out of his way so he could shoot the plane to blow Tails and Sonic out of the sky (Sonic Lost World) among other things that weren't too kind, I think that amid that Dr. Eggman still cares for Orbot and Cubot. The first thing that came to my mind was this cutscene:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rrDA-dt_w

 

What impressed me that even amid all that chaos with missiles and lasers firing everywhere and Dr. Eggman running for his life in a very dangerous situation, he was able to tell Orbot and Cubot to flee as the two seemed uncertain what to do (Cubot really couldn't do anything but talk at this point) in the midst of everything going on and panicking. The fact that Dr. Eggman said "We are leaving!" implied to me that he, Orbot and Cubot were a unit or a team, and that they all needed to escape that chaotic scene together as opposed to Dr. Eggman (understandably) fending for himself.

 

That said, however:

I think that the cutscene in Sonic Lost World where Orbot wished to be Sonic's sidekick had a little more to do than Orbot admiring Sonic's loyalty to Tails. Especially when Orbot expressed this right in the presence of Dr. Eggman and even ignoring him when he said he could hear everything Orbot was saying. If anything Orbot's words indicated to me that he isn't all to keen being Dr. Eggman's minion, even though he is quite loyal to him. 

 

As for Dr. Eggman being either an exceptional employer or bad boss, I'd say he is both as opposed to one or the other. But Dr. Eggman demonstrates both of these within reason and in a very balanced manner. It's this balance among other qualities that makes Dr. Eggman both an awesome villain and character.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Sonikku_Kiah

[Dr. Mechano]

What impressed me that even amid all that chaos with missiles and lasers firing everywhere and Dr. Eggman running for his life in a very dangerous situation, he was able to tell Orbot and Cubot to flee as the two seemed uncertain what to do (Cubot really couldn't do anything but talk at this point) in the midst of everything going on and panicking. The fact that Dr. Eggman said "We are leaving!" implied to me that he, Orbot and Cubot were a unit or a team, and that they all needed to escape that chaotic scene together as opposed to Dr. Eggman (understandably) fending for himself.

Definitely this. He treats these two a lot more like people than many of the robots he's worked with.

 

Also, it's a small touch, but I also like that he specifically addresses Orbot and Cubot by name in Lost World. In Sonic Colors, he'd only refer to Orbot as "robot," so while a minor change, I do feel his interaction with them has gotten a bit more personal.

 

Eggman also has the presence of mind to

collect Orbot and Cubot with his jetpack after faking his own death.

 

 

That said, however:

I think that the cutscene in Sonic Lost World where Orbot wished to be Sonic's sidekick had a little more to do than Orbot admiring Sonic's loyalty to Tails. Especially when Orbot expressed this right in the presence of Dr. Eggman and even ignoring him when he said he could hear everything Orbot was saying. If anything Orbot's words indicated to me that he isn't all to keen being Dr. Eggman's minion, even though he is quite loyal to him. 

 

This is interesting to me too.

 

Orbot's Japanese profile says something to the effect of, "He doesn't like Eggman all that much, but he's very loyal to him." Whereas, Cubot's profile says, "He likes Eggman, but isn't very loyal to him."

 

Essentially, Orbot is like the hard-working employee who's annoyed by his boss, but never quite enough to leave or really hate the guy. Cubot, on the other hand, is like the lazy employee who thinks of the boss more as his friend than a real authority figure, thus electing to typically goof off when he should be working.

 

I'll give this topic a proper read later, seems like a good'un, but I just want to say I cannot BELIEVE you didn't spell the topic title as Eggceptional.

 

Fixed it.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Count Mechano