Interview with Ken Pontac & Warren Graf.

[Nepenthe]

But the slow speed lends itself well to the increased platforming, the Wisps merely augment an already positive experience, and it was nice to have a Wii-exclusive Sonic title.

 

Regardless, it did get sidelined for a minute, but so did every Sonic game. But browse any thread here or any article elsewhere, and Colors and Generations tend to be listed alongside each other as "the only good Sonic games after ten years of shit."

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not too surprised, but all the more disappointed at Sonic Team over how much they're not letting go as they consistently make things out of a vacuum and never return to them again. Just pour one cup of soda from the bottle and trash the bottle despite it still being half full.

 

Really, they have this rich world to build upon and they generally ignore a lot of it, even when they make new ones.

[Zaysho]

I'm not too surprised, but all the more disappointed at Sonic Team over how much they're not letting go as they consistently make things out of a vacuum and never return to them again. Just pour one cup of soda from the bottle and trash the bottle despite it still being half full.

 

Really, they have this rich world to build upon and they generally ignore a lot of it, even when they make new ones.

 

I feel you can attribute a lot of that to how the franchise is generally perceived and it wouldn't surprise me if SEGA is telling Sonic Team "No, don't do that. The critics/fans don't like it," or something to that effect. It sucks, and I absolutely agree with you, but Sonic Team has definitely been leaning more toward pleasing the larger crowd than building up the Sonic world lately. And given how the story for Lost World (or at least the plot) was handed off to a pair of writers with next to no familiarity of the franchise's history, I don't see that changing in the near future.

 

The only "fanservice" Sonic Team throws out lately is only nostalgia pandering, when there are plenty of people who want to see the other characters getting some shine (still waiting for Shadow and the rest of them to actually do something again), more exploration of the world, and decent stories that aren't just cookie-cutter plots out of a Saturday morning cartoon but who knows if they'll ever go back to that at this point?

Edited November 10, 2013 by Zaysho

[azoo]

I'm not too surprised, but all the more disappointed at Sonic Team over how much they're not letting go as they consistently make things out of a vacuum and never return to them again. Just pour one cup of soda from the bottle and trash the bottle despite it still being half full.

 

Really, they have this rich world to build upon and they generally ignore a lot of it, even when they make new ones.

 

Basically I'm with all this, on top of how I miss that the stories of at least SA1/2/Unleashed kept you motivated and interested enough, had its ups and downs and payoffs. And made sense.

 

..And I miss characters having a bit more depth than tooting one note and spitting one-liner insults or jokes at each other..  I mean once again, don't get me wrong, it was all humorous and pretty well done this time, but I'm not sure if I like Tails being as snarky and smartassy about his mechanic skills and intelligence as Sonic is about what he does, and I'm not even sure if I like that Sonic is that way either.. :v

 

Which is why I kind of miss how they were before.

 

 Sonic, from how I interpreted him, was more about the scene and the action of things; freedom, being on an adventure, moving quickly, relaxing, experiencing new things and time with friends / random people; Sonic was more about the action, the scene, or others rather than directly being about himself and I liked that vibe. Sure, he seemed to like looking cool while doing all of it, but it never seemed like his primary reason he did it. Sonic saving the world from Eggman to protect his freedom and his friends (as well as for the fun of it) just feels better than "that's my job, its what I do, I'm the hero".

 

Meanwhile, Tails, while developing to be more independent, never had to become so snarky about his own skills. There's a difference in 'believing in yourself' and being that one 'I'm surrounded by idiots' douchey guy. Seems more like an Eggman kind of thing to do. I guess it also feels weird because Tails always has seemed much more sincere and reserved than Sonic, giving the two a sort of balanced dynamic. Him being so openly rude and sarcastic just made him feel out-of-character.

 

Since Eggman has always been pretty consistently a hammy, bombastic, manipulative and deliciously egotistical brainiac/scientist, I can't find much faults in how he's written now. I can see they probably tried to play on this by making Tails a sort of light competition throughout the storyline, but I think it kind of hurt Tails' characterization.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Azookara

[Kuzu]

I like the characterization honestly, it is something I will give them points for; I just kinda wish they'd tone it down a bit. Tails was kind of a dick in this game, and not even counting when he lashed out at Sonic over Eggman; when Sonic simply asks him if he's done with the plane, Tails decides to make a smartass remark and I'm like "Jeez man, he just asked you a simple question"

 

I don't mind Tails being a smartass, but at least know when its appropriate.

[Soniman]

To be fair, Tails' smartass remarks in the Tornado scene was lampshaded when Sonic stated that he didn't need to hear his life story.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's like they're trading one weakness for another as they go looking for strengths. Yeah, the characterization is good, the lines and scenes are funny, but they still churning out new characters (and one-shots at that, to my disgust), not building on past elements, and neglecting other characters and not giving them the same slice of improvement.

[azoo]

To be fair, Tails' smartass remarks in the Tornado scene was lampshaded when Sonic stated that he didn't need to hear his life story.

 

But the entire exchange just makes it sound like Sonic doesn't really wanna hear about his buddy and just make him stick to the "sidekick" routine, meanwhile Tails just wants to boastfully sport his intellect over his older brother figure.

 

Yeah, it could be seen as surrogate siblings picking on each other, but it just seems sorta weird and not really playful, also just kind of OOC going by what we know about the two. XD

[Kuzu]

I think Sonic & Tails know enough about each other where they can rib on each other and get away with it, just tone it down. There's playful ribbing between bros and then there's just being a dick, and these two are skitting that line.

 

Funnily enough, if this was Sonic & Knuckles I wouldn't bat an eye because I can totally see those two treating each other like that. With Sonic & Tails tho, eeeehhh. It depends.

[azoo]

Yeah, I guess thats more of what I was trying to say.

[Nepenthe]

I didn't find their bromance to be out of character. Me and my bestie say stuff that is far more sarcastic and assholish to one another than what was in the Tornado scene of all things. To me, it came across as Tails going overboard with reassuring Sonic the plane would be fixed, and Sonic responded with appropriate sarcasm. No one's feelings were hurt and they ended it on such a cheerful note as well, which further softened the blow of whatever dickishness was supposedly present in their dialogue. I dunno; I feel like if we want the characters to be more empathetic in characterization, then it helps to treat them like real friends. They came across as real friends to me.

[Kuzu]

This makes me wonder, if Knuckles, and I pray for this, ever got a significant role in the series again, how would he and Sonic interact with each other? I mean most of his lines nowadays are basically "I can do this way better" and Sonic just ignores him....so, I'm left wondering what their interactions would be like.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

yeah I'm kinda disappointed that Knuckles was one of the only 4 hero Sonic characters in the game and Sonic STILL didn't acknowledge Knux, even when he was poking fun at him.

[SchemingMinor]

That's what I have been trying to tell people about Tails - he needs balance, not over-glut of snark.

 

Why does it not surprise me that Ken Pontac and Warren Graf knew very little about how some of the characters work? I guess this explains the weird evolution of Tails's attitude.

 

But SEGA? Come on, guys. You hire somebody, you are supposed to give the inside knowledge of how you want the characters to be written and their backstory - I mean isn't this supposed to be mandatory for everybody? It cuts on the writer's stress and keeps bad sources from polluting the characters if the writers were to mistakenly get ahold of it and to mistake it as canon.

 

I wonder what mandates they have that differ from the one they hold on the current Archie writing staff?

Edited November 10, 2013 by Scheming Minor

[Tani Coyote]

My sole consolation is that SEGA has demonstrated itself to be VERY controlling with how characters are depicted, having to give its approval for everything, so it's no wonder they didn't bother giving much background... they just took the simpler route and said "Do what you want so long as it's nothing radical."

This does highlight the need for the series to seriously get itself a "Bible" of sorts that new writers can flip through, just a few pages that explain some plot elements and personalities. They shoved in all sorts of stuff from across the timeline into Lost World, but it comes off as a nostalgia cashin rather than anything of plot relevance.

[Diogenes]

... and neglecting other characters and not giving them the same slice of improvement.

You can't solve every problem at once.

[Scar]

It is kinda hard for the writers to make necessary improvements in other characters, depth of character development and depth of the actual narrative, when Sonic Team themselves don't really appear to give enough of a shit. When the story generated by the creators is so bland and empty, all the writers can really do, is character interactions. Might have even had to exaggerate some snark, just to add something of interest to the otherwise lifeless cutscenes.

 

I mean if Sonic Team cared enough about the narrative experience of a Sonic game,then I'd expect them to at least provide the specialist writers they hired, with material they thought was vital to the Sonic Universe's "lore". As it stands, the Sonic Universe is a massive clusterfuck with conflicting information. I mean, how many years have we; diehard Sonic fans, been discussing Sonic 06's place in the Universe and Blaze's "true" backstory? How hard would it be for anyone from outside our fractured fanbase, to interpret this clusterfuck? Where would they start? What should they keep? What should they throw away? 

 

I personally feel, its up to Sonic Team to give them the essential information about where they want Sonic stories to go. These writers can't do all that much without help. Like I said, the impetus needs to come from Sonic Team, but apparently, they don't care....

[Sparky]

I personally think Tails attitude in Lost World fits perfectly with his development in Sonic Adventure.

[Wraith]

It is kinda hard for the writers to make necessary improvements in other characters, depth of character development and depth of the actual narrative, when Sonic Team themselves don't really appear to give enough of a shit. When the story generated by the creators is so bland and empty, all the writers can really do, is character interactions. Might have even had to exaggerate some snark, just to add something of interest to the otherwise lifeless cutscenes.

 

I mean if Sonic Team cared enough about the narrative experience of a Sonic game,then I'd expect them to at least provide the specialist writers they hired, with material they thought was vital to the Sonic Universe's "lore". As it stands, the Sonic Universe is a massive clusterfuck with conflicting information. I mean, how many years have we; diehard Sonic fans, been discussing Sonic 06's place in the Universe and Blaze's "true" backstory? How hard would it be for anyone from outside our fractured fanbase, to interpret this clusterfuck? Where would they start? What should they keep? What should they throw away? 

 

I personally feel, its up to Sonic Team to give them the essential information about where they want Sonic stories to go. These writers can't do all that much without help. Like I said, the impetus needs to come from Sonic Team, but apparently, they don't care....

 

 

I feel like Sonic Team just doesn't feel like the clusterfuck is worth sorting through. A standpoint I can understand. I mean, shit, just look at it.

[Scar]

I feel like Sonic Team just doesn't feel like the clusterfuck is worth sorting through. A standpoint I can understand. I mean, shit, just look at it.

 

While, I wouldn't blame them, they need to do something about it. Well, I guess they don't need to, not many people aside from us Sonic fans, actually care about the narrative or lore of the Sonic Universe, but I feel that they're obligated to at least try. 

[Gabz Girl]

Damn SEGA. So they didn't even give the writers anything to go by, no reference book or anything? No wonder the characters act so different nowadays! Not that that's a bad thing of course as I can't imagine anyone liking Boy Scout Sonic from Sonic 06, or clumsy idiot Knuckles from ShtH/06. There were many points in these games where the characters were so OOC I couldn't believe it. SA1, 2 and The Storybook games are easily the best when it comes to story and characterisation. And Unleashed.

Anyway, at least Ken and Warren are trying and I think they're doing a really good job, especially with what little they're getting from SEGA in terms of storytelling. I hope they will be given the chance to write the story for the next game, and it would be glorious.

[Kuzu]

You can't solve every problem at once.

 

Its how many years since another character has been significant?

[Diogenes]

The way I see it, we only just got Sonic and Tails to be interesting with SLoW. Trying to jam a bunch of other characters into it probably wouldn't have worked out too well.

[azoo]

The way I see it, we only just got Sonic and Tails to be interesting with SLoW. Trying to jam a bunch of other characters into it probably wouldn't have worked out too well.

 

I didn't find them to have just made Sonic and Tails interesting, starting here. I just think their writing got better.

[Kuzu]

The way I see it, we only just got Sonic and Tails to be interesting with SLoW. Trying to jam a bunch of other characters into it probably wouldn't have worked out too well.

 

The general consensuses is that Colors is where Sonic & Tails started to get interesting again by my observation; and this still does not answer my question. How many games are we going to have wait for the likes of Amy & Knuckles to get their due? Are we seriously still under the impression that any inclusion beyond Sonic, Tails, and Eggman will somehow lead to terrible writing? We just had a game with six new characters, but asking for two long standing ones to have a larger role is suddenly "too much"?