How Sega can fix Sonic

[Salamander]

To be blunt, does anyone in Sonic Team (or Dimps) even understand how to make a classic platformer that's good any more?  That's the big problem with creating what is essentially a high-quality remake of the classics - the art has been lost.

 

I do think that the essential basis of your idea isn't so bad, though - look way, way back at the classics, and ask yourself why people enjoyed them, what worked about them, and what kind of gameplay and, yes, story defined "Sonic" in those days.  And then try and apply those principles in 3D - or, if you like, in 2.5D - with the kind of frills and production values people expect today, with the aim of creating something that feels like Sonic as well as simply looking like Sonic.  A lot of 3D Sonic games feel to me as if the only thing tying them to each other, let alone to the classics, is the inclusion of Sonic, and they could easily have been reskinned into completely individual franchises with nothing to do with a blue hedgehog.

 

In a sense, though, I feel as if Sonic has been hamstrung by the values that created him.  His gimmick was that he was fast, but "fast" in the days of the classics wasn't very fast at all.  Today, however, something fitting our idea of "fast" is almost completely incompatible with the kind of platforming classic Sonic delivered, and adding 3D platforming makes it even worse because speed is very difficult to reconcile with 3D platforming in which you have more directions to be careful in.  That was the problem the boost trilogy and the mach speed levels of '06 encountered - make a fast game with essentially no platforming - while Lost World often labours under the reverse problem - make a platforming game which is actually rather slow.

Edited November 15, 2013 by FFWF

[The Egg WAH]

This sounds a lot like Sonic 4 

[Diogenes]

They try so hard to regain their old CLASSIC fans with nostalgia

If they were trying that hard, you'd think they'd get the gameplay right at least once.

[Doc]

Why do we need a 2D game? Seriously this is the list of 2D games, 3D-only games, and 3D games that switch to 2D or mostly 2D and sometimes switch to 3D:

 

 

2D games:
Sonic 1 genesis
Sonic 2 gensesis
Sonic CD
Sonic 3
Sonic & Knuckles
Knuckles' Chaotix
Sonic 1 game gear
Sonic 2 game gear
Sonic Chaos
Sonic Triple Trouble
Sonic Blast
Tails' Adventure
Tails' Sky Patrol
Sonic Pocket Adventure
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Advance 3
Sonic Rivals
Sonic Rivals 2
Sonic Rush
Sonic Rush Adventure
Sonic Colours DS
Sonic Generations 3DS
Only 3D:
Sonic Labyrinth (kinda)
Sonic 3D Blast (kinda)
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic 06
Sonic & the Secret Rings
Sonic & the Black Knight
Switches from 2D to 3D:
Sonic Unleashed both PS3/360 and PS2/Wii
Sonic Colours Wii
Sonic Generations
Sonic Lost World both Wii U and 3DS

 

2D: total:24 without handheld or non-main games: 7

3D only: total:9 without handheld or non-main games:4

2D and 3D: total: 4

 

See what I mean? most sonic games are 2D sonic games. Also, I think that Sega need to make a 3D sonic game, because they've already made several great 2D games, but the 3D games are slightly lacking. I think randomly having 2D sections in 3D levels ruin the pacing in my opinion.

[Scar]

If they were trying that hard, you'd think they'd get the gameplay right at least once.

 

That's exactly the point. Nostalgia is superficial.

[dlvja6490]

the only thing the franchise needs is main games have more development time, three to four years and during that time they could launch spinoff titles (races, fights, etc ...) or handheld games like Sonic 4 but as Sonic Generations style.

Edited November 15, 2013 by dlvja6490

[Kiah]

I have to respectfully disagree with many of these ideas mentioned in the OP. I'll even contest a few of them if I may:

 

1. As for a reboot, I really don't think that it is necessary. The series is fine just the way it is, it just can be better with a few changes here and there. I fear a reboot would destroy many if not all the things we have come to know and love about Sonic over the 20+ years he has been around. And that would prove to be very harmful, and a major step backwards if that happened. Sega has been working hard to get Sonic out of the rut he was in due to that period where his games were considered bad, so they should continue to move forward in the favorable direction they are currently going with Sonic, not some unknown direction via a reboot that could cause them to go backwards and be disastrous. That is way too risky, and an unnecessary risk at that.    

 

2. I'm not sure how giving Sonic his classic look again would really help matters. I think Sonic looks fine the way that he currently is. The hatred for Modern Sonic boggles my mind seeing that Modern Sonic design has been around way longer that the Classic Sonic design (15 years compared to 7 years). I think the nostalgia goggles are fogging your vision on this one as I really don't see how this change would fix anything.  

 

11. Why get rid of the cutscenes?  I don't see how they could detract from the game in any kind of way. If anything, the cutscenes enhance the game as it give you something to look forward to aside from playing the game. There are fans aside from myself that have a high regard for cutscenes as they portray the story, which we have a high regard of as well as characterization for Sonic, his friends and his foes-all which we get from watching the cutscenes. You can't really have a story or have the characters' personalities fleshed out without the cutscenes. Besides, if you don't like to see the cutscenes you can hit that "Skip" button and move right on along with playing the game. There's no need to deprive them from the fans that want to see the cutscenes and enjoy them.

 

15. Why exclude the Wii U from the list of platforms? And Steam for that matter. If you are going to mention every other console/platform that the game could be released on, you might as well mention them all. One of the problems with recent Sonic games has been exclusivity which has resulted in fans being left out. Aside from Wii and 3DS/DS owners, everyone else was left out with Sonic Colors. Then the Wii owners themselves were left out when it came to Sonic Generations. Then we went right back to Nintendo systems being exclusive to Sonic Lost World. The good thing about Sonic being 3rd party is that he is expendable and his games could be available to any and all gamers, regardless of what system they own.

 

On the other hand:

 

5. I like this idea of progressing from day to night via progressing through the zones. I really like how Sonic Lost World did it with Windy Hill:

 

Starting off with sunny skies...

 

To a gorgeous orange sunset...

 

To a starry-filled night...

 

It's realistic, varied and beautiful details like this that causes me to really admire and enjoy what I see in Sonic games.

[Jet Prower]

I've agreed with so much in this topic to be honest. So many people with good ideas to show what things honestly do and don't work.

 

For gameplay, I love the way Lost Word did things for the series. I know many people see problems in the game, but finally making Sonic back into a platformer I do think was a positive thing. Yes, I think the world should be flat and not mario Galaxyish, but that is for another time. I'm just glad to see him being a platformer again and not a let's run at top speed as fast as we can game. Yes, he needs some new speed added into that formula, but Lost World I do feel has lots of positives to add to it all. Rebooting would just destroy so much from the series and most likely cause a lot more harm than good. It would just piss so many people off, and most people's ideas about the universe would just all be thrown out the door in the end. Not a good thing.

 

As for the cutscenes, yeah, those are one of the best things that can be put into these games. Unlike mario that barely has any cutscenes usually, Sonic has a story behind him that is more deep than that. I feel it sets him apart more than the other platformers by having a lot more story in the game. Sure, there are other platformers that do this, but it doesn't seem as common as the ones that are just all about get to the end and save someone. More cutscenes are a plus to me, but as others said, just skip them if you dont like them if that is allowed.

 

Yes, Sega should advertise the games a bit more, but they don't want to go overboard as well. So many companies these days have blown their budgets way out of proportion and Sonic Team doesn't need to do that as well. These companies that can sell 2 and 3 million games, but because their budgets were so big and out of wack they are still commercial failures even if the game was good. Sega just needs to make their games known better is all not spend an arm and a leg to where it can hurt the games profitability.

 

Having more consoles it is is available on would be good, as long as it isn't all mobile or digital of course. Stuck to the WiiU is going to effect the sales a bit for the time being, but they are likely to pick up in time I'm sure. IT all just depends on what they do and how we all react to it in the end.

[Chaos Incarnate]

This is what Sega needs to do to fix Sonic. This isn't a troll post, but what actually needs to happen (in my opinion) before they suffer another downwards spiral starting with Lost World.

 

1) Reboot the series, call the new game "Sonic the Hedgehog"

 

2) Bring back Classic Sonic's model from Generations

 

3) Make the game 2.5D. Replicate the physics from Sonic 3 & Knuckles as close as possible

 

4) Base the levels off of classic favorites from Sonic 1-3, as well as brand new stages

 

5) Each Zone should have 3 acts, and slowly progress from day to night in each Zone.

 

6) The first level should be a blend of Green Hill Zone and Spring Yard Zone, to give the iconic first level feel, but not be too similar to Lost World's Windy Hill. Introduces the classic loop de loops and pinball mechanics. In the beginning you have no Spin Dash, you unlock it a bit later. The track for this first stage should simply be Green Hill Zone, with a slower more soothing version that plays during the night time. This is the only reused music track, all other levels should have original music that is catchy and memorable, just like the classic games. (Except the Sonic 1 title screen theme). Repetitive enough to get stuck in your head but not too repetitive.

 

7) You face Dr Robotnik on the 3rd act of each zone, he has the ball and chain mech for the first fight but every boss after that is original.

 

8) There are 10 Zones, and 7 brand new special stages with a new mechanic, but keep the bird/fish theme from Sonic 1.

 

9) When you complete the game as Sonic, you unlock Tails. Tails can access alternate paths via flight.

 

10) When you complete the game as Tails, you unlock Knuckles. Knuckles can break through rocks to access hidden areas and climb walls.

 

11) No cutscenes except a high budget CGI intro sequence, and finale sequence.

 

12) Invest as much money as possible into advertising the game. E.g. large billboards with Sonic wagging his finger in the trademark emblem, with "The Most Famous Hedgehog In The World", "You've Never Seen Anything Like It"

 

13) An attention grabbing commercial with a moment's silence with a white screen so people will turn around while eating, then the iconic "SEGA!", before showing Sonic wag his finger at the title screen. The commercial instantly ends, so people are encouraged to research "Sonic the Hedgehog."

 

14) The Sonic website simply shows the title emblem, and coming soon with release platforms.

 

15) Release on PS4, Xbox One, iOS and 3DS. If the iOS version does well, port to Android. 

 

16) Extra features include time attack, score attack with leaderboards. Also local and online Sonic/Tails co-op play.

 

This is what I think needs to happen for Sonic to go back to his glory days. This is not a nostalgia fuelled mission to relive my childhood, but what I legitimately feel needs to happen for Sonic to be successful again. Sonic was popular because he was different from the competition. Every Sonic game since Adventure had original ideas but started to adopt ideas from other games in order to "fit in". Sonic needs to go back to what made him popular in the first place. New children will fall in love with Sonic if this happens. I hope somehow somebody at Sega reads this, time is running out.

1)Honestly, what's the point of rebooting at the moment? They sort of already tried that a while ago and we all know how well 06 turned out...

 

2)There's really no need for that, Sonic's had his Modern design and it's fundamentally looked the same starting with Adventure and has looked fairly consistent since Unleashed, people are more likely to be used to this design.

 

3)Hmm, not a bad idea making another Sonic game in 2.5d, since one of Sonic 4's few strong points, especially Episode 2, looked amazing. I wouldn't really want that for a main series game, but a 2.5D game with 3 & K physics could be a step in the right direction.

 

4) Revisiting the same traditional tropes again, which we've been doing for the past 3-4 years with Sonic 4, Generations, and now Lost World? I would prefer something original.

 

5)Sure, could be pretty cool seeing a day to night transition. I'm thinking like Windy Hill's transition in Lost World, or the Day/Night cycles from Sonic Unleashed without the Werehog. Maybe not for every zone, and 3 acts is fine, but I agree with this.

 

6)Another Green Hill/Spring Yard rehash? Again, something fresh and unique would be nice, and I don't think it and Spring Yard would really mix..

 

7)The Chain/Mech ball again? Really? I don't see the point, but you've got the right idea wanting unique bosses after that.

 

8)Oh god yes, a brand new Special Stage that doesn't reuse anything from its predecessors would be appreciated, but I can do without the seizure fish, thank you very much.

 

9)Tails being playable in a main series original game is something I have been dying for, and I would be all for adding other playable characters like Knuckles as well if we aren't forced to beat the game with them and it's optional.

 

11) Um... why not? Stories in Sonic games can be great, Unleashed, the Storybook games, and Lost World are sheer proof of that. I don't expect anything shakesperian out of a Sonic story since we're talking about a Blue Hedgehog fighting a egg shaped doctor, but Stories and characters give me a reason to care about what's going on sometimes and can motivate me to continue playing.

 

Honestly, a reboot at this point is entirely redundant. You've got some ideas that are... out there, and I can see a game like this being pretty dang fun, but I don't see Sonic Team ever going in this direction. 

[PatMac]

This idea could work as maybe a spinoff (key word being maybe). But, a reboot? We've all seen what came out of that last time. 

 

As for having the name "Sonic The Hedgehog", I think we have enough games with that title, Sonic 1 Genesis, Sonic 1 Game Gear,  Sonic 1 Master System, and Sonic 06, all technically called Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

I'm sure that a game like this would please the Classic Fans, but, it certainly won't please all fan. Then again, has there been a time when all sonic "fans" were collectively happy? 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I'm sure that a game like this would please the Classic Fans, but, it certainly won't please all fan. Then again, has there been a time when all sonic "fans" were collectively happy? 

...The last time we had a critically acclaimed Sonic game prior to thinking about things in hindsight?

[Phos]

How Sega can fix Sonic:

 

1) Make a good game

 

Whenever I see this I can't help but imagine Sonic in some kind of random genre, like a cut the rope game or something. I get what you're on about but I can't help but feel like it's no kind of victory without Sonic moving like Sonic.

No, removing something is not fixing it, it's ignoring it.

In the case of Lost World's Parkour, it was really cannibalizing what would ordinarily be handled by the traditional physics system. In case some people are lumping in ledge grabbing with parkour, that isn't really parkour. Ledge grabbing is probably a good idea.

[Blacklightning]

Whenever I see this I can't help but imagine Sonic in some kind of random genre, like a cut the rope game or something. I get what you're on about but I can't help but feel like it's no kind of victory without Sonic moving like Sonic.

Well it goes without saying that even I expect certain very basic quantifiers depending on what the game's billing itself as (mainly "it's a platformer" and "it flows well"), but the definition of "like Sonic" is something I've long since stopped trying to take seriously. Partly because it's so vauge and subjective that nobody ever really agrees on one interpretation, and partly because it usually devolves into varying but typically unbearable levels of No True Scotsman wankery, with all due respect to the OP. It's so incredibly hard to care anymore when these discussions ultimately just end up in more grief, and more frustrating still when they are ultimately offered as solutions as opposed to approaches, ignorant that the latter is just one of many ways to accomplish the former.

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, as long as it's all in opinion and personal view it doesn't bother me much, but when it comes to topics that promise an objective fix-all it just shits me when people produce ideas of incredibly narrow scope, point to them and unironically try to convince people it's literally the only way the franchise can be "fixed". Sonic could build itself off physics it's long since separated itself from, off movements that lock speed to hide it, off of contextual acrobatic flair that would literally never work unless levels were built in a very specific way to support it, but what matters to me is that they make it fun to play regardless - and once they accomplish that, I could literally not give less of a fuck how. 

 

How about we look at the mistakes, learn from them, and fix them?

This is something that resonates pretty deeply with me too - not just because Sega and Sonic Team leave such mistakes prevalent in Sonic gameplay for long periods of time over several games, but because they never leave adequete chance to return to them. They seem to like constantly reinventing themselves in some vain search for identity, when identity would've just come easily and naturally had they just taken an approach, stuck with it and actually bothered ironing out its flaws and fleshing it out with new content as they went.

 

Again, I don't really give a fuck how - is it really asking too much that the games be consistent, if nothing else? That's what I wanna know.

[The Pit of Mystic Cave]

They don't need to reboot anything. What they need to do is pick a damn style of gameplay and stick with it for once, and if you ask me, that style should be the Unleashed formulas. I mean, things were looking great for a while, what with Sonic finally emerging from the dark ages with Sonic Unleashed. Sure, half the game was mediocre, but the day stages were exhilarating, and for once in a very long time, Sonic was playable in 3D. They used this style again in Generations, which is a stellar game, and then all of a sudden they changed everything with Lost World (a not-so-stellar game).

 

I'm honestly hoping that once this contract with Nintendo ends, that Sonic Team will revisit the Unleashed formula once more, and this time on next-gen

[Scar]

I really have to ask the OP....why exactly are you so adamant of it being 2.5D?

 

Something like that would feel so, SO cheap and lazy and unambitious. Its like the opposite of progress. These suggestions are nothing short of degenerative. Yeah its now 2.5D instead of sprite-based, but its pretty much going back to how things were back in the old days for the sake of it.

[Milo]

I thought we already got something like this in the form of Sonic 4 and the classic half of Generations.

 

The former was godawful in most aspects in both attempts it did of "reviving" the Genesis gameplay for it's two pitiful episodes that were produced (which is precisely the reason why we're not getting a third episode), and I argue more or less killed any viability of Sega making another Genesis-styled Sonic game anytime soon if not ever.

 

The latter I'd argue was a missed opportunity at being the former done competently in all aspects. I don't think it's awful as a whole, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that the physics are hardly better than Sonic 4 and the level design is for the most part lacking.

[Aquaslash]

Call me crazy, but I missed the part where Sonic needed "fixing"

[Kuzu]

They should probably play test their games for starters/

[MegaMan_EXE]

Okay, forgive for sounding whiny here, but when people say that SEGA needs to fix Sonic, there's only one thing I want them to fix:
How they treat their characters. To me, it seems like SEGA seems to treat the Sonic characters that aren't series staples like this:
Have them appear in one or two games, and boom, never appear again with no explanation. You want to know why the Archie Sonic series is my favorite Sonic continuity despite the stupid shit for a while? It's because Archie seems to treat lesser characters with respect. As much as I love the Mighty at the bar jokes, he gets great work in the Archieverse, and Knuckles is a character I can enjoy in the Archieverse, unlike his dumbass game counterpart from games like Heroes and onward. Even characters from Tails Skypotral got some attention in Tails's arc in Sonic Universe after the Iron Domination, which I still need to read. It makes the Sonic universe feel connected and have some really nice world-building, unlike the game continuity. Not to mention, have some good stories, please?

When it comes to gameplay, even though I'm in the minority in this, I love when SEGA and Sonic Team tries to do something new. It shows me that they don't have a comfort zone, and aren't afraid of trying new things. While Lost World is a convoluted game in terms of gameplay, I got a kick out of it. I liked the parkour mechanics, the bigger emphasis on exploration, which is what I would like to see more in Sonic games nowadays, and the 2D sections, while awkward at first, aren't as bad as people make them out to be. It's an experiment, and while I don't think that's a good excuse to give it a pass, because Unleashed, to me, was a horrible game, I felt Lost World has genuine effort put into it, and it's heart is in the right place, unlike Unleashed. Yeah, I do wish SEGA would make a Sonic 4 Episode 3 that has original level design and have it be well designed, but I want to see where the parkour gameplay goes. I don't feel like it reached its full potential, then again, what will reach its full potential on the first go? 

 

As optimistic as I try to be, I know that everyone has different views, and I know a few people on here will hate what I think about "fixing" Sonic. All I want is a better story, with better writing, and with more care and attention to lesser characters, some of which younger fans don't know. That's it. 

[StarStreak]

I've signed up onto this website because I want to tell people how I think Sonic can be saved. Sonic's teetering on death with SEGA's funds being so dangerously low and they really need to get Sonic right this time. Despite not having many good games since going 3D, Sonic is still a household name. If Rayman can survive then Sonic can too. I'll detail exactly what should happen in a nice concise manner. 

= No stupid story. Storylines in Sonic games have always been embarrassing and a waste of time. They are a waste of development money and time and, more importantly, they interrupt the pace of the game. Let's make Sonic the silent protagonist he always was.

= A return to the Classic art style. The newer games have made movements towards the Classic art style, but lets leave behind the urban gritty nonsense that the Adventure games gradually introduced completely. Sonic had an iconic art style, let's bring it back.

= Only have Sonic and Dr Robotnik. The other characters are all fluff and are not as good as Sonic, with some like Shadow being a complete embarrassment. Thankfully, we haven't had to play as these friends lately (aside from the terrible Sonic Boom) but it would be even better to return to the roots of Sonic 1. Let's just have Sonic and Robotnik.

= Make it in 2D. Sonic has never worked in 3D because a Sonic game is totally opposed to 3D, it simply doesn't work. Sonic is a perfect fit for 2D, let's bring Sonic back to the dimension he deserves to be in.

I think these are the most important aspects. Let's truly bring Sonic back to his roots.

I hope you like my ideas ^^

[SenEDDtor Missile]

57 minutes ago, StarStreak said:

I've signed up onto this website because I want to tell people how I think Sonic can be saved. Sonic's teetering on death with SEGA's funds being so dangerously low and they really need to get Sonic right this time. Despite not having many good games since going 3D, Sonic is still a household name. If Rayman can survive then Sonic can too. I'll detail exactly what should happen in a nice concise manner. 

= No stupid story. Storylines in Sonic games have always been embarrassing and a waste of time. They are a waste of development money and time and, more importantly, they interrupt the pace of the game. Let's make Sonic the silent protagonist he always was.

= A return to the Classic art style. The newer games have made movements towards the Classic art style, but lets leave behind the urban gritty nonsense that the Adventure games gradually introduced completely. Sonic had an iconic art style, let's bring it back.

= Only have Sonic and Dr Robotnik. The other characters are all fluff and are not as good as Sonic, with some like Shadow being a complete embarrassment. Thankfully, we haven't had to play as these friends lately (aside from the terrible Sonic Boom) but it would be even better to return to the roots of Sonic 1. Let's just have Sonic and Robotnik.

= Make it in 2D. Sonic has never worked in 3D because a Sonic game is totally opposed to 3D, it simply doesn't work. Sonic is a perfect fit for 2D, let's bring Sonic back to the dimension he deserves to be in.

I think these are the most important aspects. Let's truly bring Sonic back to his roots.

I hope you like my ideas ^^

I'll break down your points one by one.

-Not having a story doesn't fix anything and only pisses off the fans who WANT a GOOD story. This is just nostalgia pandering, which we already have enough of. Plus all Sonic games have story to some degree even if it was very simple.

- Nostalgia pandering.

-Won't fix anything if Sonic and Eggman are still badly characterized, and not using the other characters will only piss of the fans of those characters, unless you think their opinions are irrelevant because they aren't "Sonic/Eggman only!" fanatics or something.

-Again, pisses off 3D fans and people who see the potential in 3D Sonic, and it only makes people think that Sonic can't do anything without needing to be in 2D.

Plus, you already got that kind of game in Sonic 4, and look how well those games turned out in the long term. Gameplay that is considered polarizing at best due to wonky physics and additions that are considered meh to unnecessary at best (Homing Attack), art style that is at best a pale imitation of the classics, and there's probably more stuff I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Sega can't fix Sonic by following your points because they inevitably find some way to botch it. Plus I doubt they fully have any idea what Sonic IS anyways. And I doubt just pandering to guys like you will help the franchise in the long run either, since it will just look like Sonic is incapable of doing anything without needing to pander to halfassed notions of what "SONIC TRULY IS".

[StarStreak]

1 hour ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

I'll break down your points one by one.

-Not having a story doesn't fix anything and only pisses off the fans who WANT a GOOD story. This is just nostalgia pandering, which we already have enough of. Plus all Sonic games have story to some degree even if it was very simple.

- Nostalgia pandering.

-Won't fix anything if Sonic and Eggman are still badly characterized, and not using the other characters will only piss of the fans of those characters, unless you think their opinions are irrelevant because they aren't "Sonic/Eggman only!" fanatics or something.

-Again, pisses off 3D fans and people who see the potential in 3D Sonic, and it only makes people think that Sonic can't do anything without needing to be in 2D.

Plus, you already got that kind of game in Sonic 4

- Such fans are a minuscule minority and shouldn't be appeased when no one else wants a pointless story. It's not nostalgia pandering, it's not bogging the game down with embarrassment.

- It's not nostalgia pandering, it's trying to get Sonic's identity back after the art style got far more generic. It's not nostalgia pandering when Mario, Rayman, Halo, Half Life and Final Fantasy have a consistently unique art style and it's not nostalgia pandering when Sonic does.

- Again, such fans are minuscule and shouldn't be appeased if everyone else doesn't like them. It's easier to characterise two characters than a hundred million pointless auxiliary characters.

- The vast majority of gamers want Sonic in 2D, the tiny portion of 3D fans shouldn't be focused on. Star Wars didn't focus on Jar Jar Binks because he had a few fans, it threw him out the films because he sucked.

And as for Sonic 4, whilst being better than anything Sonic related that came out after Sonic 3, I would like to see a better effort. It would definitely be a better decision than a hopeless 3D title.

[Badnik Mechanic]

26 minutes ago, StarStreak said:

Every single time I used the words "Such fans are miniscule" as a counter.

According to what data? I presume you have something to back up that as a valid argument?

[StarStreak]

39 minutes ago, Hogfather said:

According to what data? I presume you have something to back up that as a valid argument?

Numerous critical reviews (virtually all), opinions on social media such as youtube and comments on many articles, as well as anecdotal evidence from the vast number of people I have spoken to in real life.

I don't have empirical data because where would I get it from? Besides this is just a silly fan site.

[Milo]

13 minutes ago, StarStreak said:

Numerous critical reviews (virtually all), opinions on social media such as youtube and comments on many articles, as well as anecdotal evidence from the vast number of people I have spoken to in real life.

I don't have empirical data because where would I get it from? Besides this is just a silly fan site.

You haven't actually given any hard sources and/or presented a credible argument to back up your statement. You're only tossing out a list of vague sources and then handwaving an excuse as to why you're not giving any concrete evidence. I might as well claim the majority of fans also want a sequel to Sonic Labyrinth based on the same "sources" you have.