What's your envisionment of a Sonic cartoon?

[redmenace]

Well you do have something in common with them, stubbornness. I just don't understand why you think the SatAM fans are ruining the Sonic fanbase because they hang on to hope, no matter how small a chance, that it will come back.

I never said they were ruing the fanbase. I said it's annoying to hear about it, about Ryan Drummond, about 2D purists, about Mobius/Earth debate and so on and on, and we never get anywhere when debating stuff because of it. Don't put words on my mouth than I never said.

[Flyboy Fox]

...Or I wouldn't mind a SATAM revival with X-like art, that would be good too.

For me that would be perfect. I've always wanted to see what Sally would look like in X-style. (Not XXX style though... THAT's been done a million times X.x).

However, I would want to include Knuckles, perhaps as Sally's love interest to keep Sonic out of any romantic entanglements. And Amy would probably need to be there, as she's a current staple and she provides humour and a different sort of girl-power.

I think it could actually work really well. Sort of trying to do in cartoon form what Archie did, except with less drama and more action and humour. And more relevant to the games, so that it would tie in more easily with what the status quo is now.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Well, as long as we're being hypothetical, I'll just go ahead and be selfish and say that I'd love to see a light hearted Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog style cartoon about Blaze and Marine traveling the world and fighting Johnny and Whisker.

[Kiljoy]

I never said they were ruing the fanbase. I said it's annoying to hear about it, about Ryan Drummond, about 2D purists, about Mobius/Earth debate and so on and on, and we never get anywhere when debating stuff because of it. Don't put words on my mouth than I never said.

Well then word your posts better, because judging by your previous posts it is implied that you think these fans are ruining the fanbase and don't belong there anymore.

[Flyboy Fox]

Let's draw a line under this argument now, guys. This topic is about what we would each like to see, and no one is going to derride anyone else's opinion anymore. Discuss, debate if you like, but no more accusations and bad sportsmanship. I know you can do it

[Blazey Firekitty]

I know you can do it

This might be a good time to save your game!

But in all seriousness, I support the idea of a show with SatAM characters, but with a tone closer to the modern games, what with the focus on action and humor.

[Meow]

I actually wouldn't mind if a cartoon used some of the archie/satam characters. Obviously I'd much rather have the better evolved characterizations of the Archie comics in it rather than rip into the SatAM ones. The characters themselves have come a long way. However, if I were to put them in a cartoon it'd be completely fresh. I would want a cartoon that has no ties to previous continuities, or if they do...then very vaguely. I don't care though what characters are in it (besides Sonic and Eggman) as long as they are written properly.

Like I said before, I don't want a retelling of the games in the cartoon. I want a new, fresh storyline. Even if it followed the same old Sonic VS Eggman thing, I don't want it to have sagas that tell the stories of some of the games =)

[Miko]

And why don't they tone Amy Rose down? Problem solved.

Mnah. Toning Amy down would be worse. Because her chasing Sonic's become really iconic for their relationship. Besides even if they did, my problem with Amy has always been that she doesn't really contribute anything to Sonic's world. The "useless" sidelining love interest is fine and typical within shonen genres, but it just doesn't do anything for me.

I actually wouldn't mind if a cartoon used some of the archie/satam characters. Obviously I'd much rather have the better evolved characterizations of the Archie comics in it rather than rip into the SatAM ones

It'd depend on the characters and I'd keep it to a minimum, and no Sally. NO Sally. She took the thunder from all the other would be friends and surrogate family figures and it's not worth adding a character that'll do that to the team. If anything the team needs to become closer. But seriously? Most of the SatAM/Archie characters offered nothing distinct to Sonic's world. They offered physical and mental abilities, but none that aren't already covered by the game cast today. I could see Bunnie playing off well lead supporting characters on the ranks of Tails and Knuckles, but I'm a little curious what she'd be able do for Sonic, although I do like Mina. Anyone can whip up an ability for the character, the question is o they offer anything in terms of personality to the star player? Will they help us further get to know and get interested in the hero, or will they just be dead weight to the story for the next 30 minutes?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Miko

[AdventChild]

My image of a Sonic cartoon would be that it has slick and great animation like from FMA, Naruto, Geneon or Gainax, less serious and a bit more comical like Gintama, SZS, or FLCL, would have some great action scenes as well, plots for each ep would be well-written, and would more intended for adults or at least, have adult humor in it so the whole family could watch it, kinda like Freakazoid or Animaniacs or The Simpsons. Also, stories/sagas would based or adapted from the recent games, like SU or SatBK or if even possible M&S.

[Picchi]

I have a few ideas, but the one that's been playing in my head most is one where Sonic tours the world with a band of buddies while running into numerous adventures. My guess is that the team would be made up of Sonic, Mina, Tails, Vector, Tiara, and Honey. Amy might start off as a fan of Sonic's, and Ash might play as the group's manager who might have a rivalry with Sonic over Mina.

He may dedicate some time to having a normal life (ex: School, family, etc.), but when adventure calls Sonic's running and on the go; kind of in a Kim Possible sort of way. Still on that note of comparison, I think Eggman would probably play off as a more light-hearted and quirky villian. Kind of like how Dr. Drakken was.

Sure, there IS Sonic's old band from the classics, but they didn't have much to offer in terms of capturing both the male and female demographics. That, and I think it would've been smarter to prioritize characters people knew and liked before trying to make new personalities. Honey may be "new" in that sense, but I guess I wanted to even out the number of boys and girls in the band a bit, and with the little knowledge there is of her, I could at least see her contributing in some way to the band. Costume stylist, anyone?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Picchi

[Miko]

I probably wouldn't mind occasional allusions to music but I dunno how Sonic would really do strictly on that tangent.

[Leon K Fox]

I would love to see a Sonic cartoon that combined the best bits of AoSTH and SatAM, the humour of the former and the storyline of the latter.

Get the balance right and it would quite possibly be the best Sonic cartoon ever.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Leon K Fox

[AdventChild]

Also, I would like to add to my previous post that for a Sonic cartoon, it would only star the main cast themselves, Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, and Eggman with some other minors in there like the Chaotix. Though no human tag-a-long chars that doesn't really contribute to the plot or is pretty much insignificant and useless altogether and has a bland or annoying personality. Or AKA no 'Chris'like chars.

[Dr. Mechano]

Though no human tag-a-long chars that doesn't really contribute to the plot or is pretty much insignificant and useless altogether and has a bland or annoying personality. Or AKA no 'Chris'like chars.

Is it even needed to say humans though?

How about just "no tag-a-long characters", human or otherwise? If Chris was an animal, he'd still have been an annoying, unneeded extra- His humanity is not the problem, and fans use it as a scapegoat for his glaring characterization flaws.

For the record, I always saw the Freedom Fighters as being just as superfluous and unnecessary as Chris Thorndyke was, considering both fall under the definition of "Characters made up specifically for the cartoon who tag along with Sonic and effectively steal the spotlight by getting equal or more focus compared to the original game characters."

Oh, sure. Sonic was focused on the most in SatAM, but the other two game characters(Robotnik and Tails) were vastly overshadowed by the new, made-up characters for the series. Because of that, I have to say that these characters are no better than Chris, and their popularity among the same people who despise the little twerp baffles me when you consider their similarities. Same goes for Sonic's siblings in Underground.

I don't feel Eggman's lackeys were ever this though- Whether it was Scratch, Grounder, and Coconuts(The latter two were in-game enemies, anyway!) of AoStH, or Decoe, Bocoe, and Bokkun of Sonic X, the new Eggman sidekicks were always supporting characters who never outshined their master or his foes. They contributed to the story without becoming a spotlight-stealing squad, and I can appreciate them for this.

President, Sera, and Old Man Owl from the OVA weren't this either, as they were also background/supporting characters who added some good comedy to the story without ever outshining the game characters or stealing their focus. The OVA's new characters are cool with me, and should be a model for original characters that aren't from the games to follow.

Edited June 30, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[Flyboy Fox]

Is it even needed to say humans though?

How about just "no tag-a-long characters", human or otherwise? If Chris was an animal, he'd still have been an annoying, unneeded extra- His humanity is not the problem, and fans use it as a scapegoat for his glaring characterization flaws.

Although I agree that his problems were hugely to do with characterisation issues, I do think that him being a human was an issue, and here's why:

Chris was inserted into the series to provide a bridge between 'them' (the furries) and 'us' (the human kids watching). His being human was an extremely patronising suggestion that kids wouldn't be able to relate to a bunch of super-powered animal characters without a normal little human boy to 'see' it all through.

A tag-along character was unnecessary, regardless of being human or not... but I don't think they would have even contemplated an animal character tag-along. Chris was chosen because he is a human, and therefore his humanity is actually a negative trait in this context.

[Dr. Mechano]

Although I agree that his problems were hugely to do with characterisation issues, I do think that him being a human was an issue, and here's why:

Chris was inserted into the series to provide a bridge between 'them' (the furries) and 'us' (the human kids watching). His being human was an extremely patronising suggestion that kids wouldn't be able to relate to a bunch of super-powered animal characters without a normal little human boy to 'see' it all through.

A tag-along character was unnecessary, regardless of being human or not... but I don't think they would have even contemplated an animal character tag-along. Chris was chosen because he is a human, and therefore his humanity is actually a negative trait in this context.

Yet they would later create a plant tag-along character in the form of Cosmo. (Who I posit was just as superfluous as Chris)

However, this is actually a common trend in anime based on games- I don't think we're meant to relate to Chris because he's human, but rather because he's "an ordinary child." His humanity is one aspect of this, sure.

Case in point, the Ganbare Goemon anime series. It's based on a series of very funny and well-written games that embrace the surreal, managing to be both a parody of many conventions and highly original at the same time. The anime series had the characters from the game world travel to the normal, realistic Earth, where they hung out with the ordinary elementary student, Tsukasa. Now, in this case, Goemon and his friends were human already. The difference between Goemon and Tsukasa is not that of species, but that "One is a fantastic hero from an unrealistic world, and one is an ordinary kid from our realistic Earth."

Further, the Megaman OVA does the same thing. Megaman and his costars are transported to the real world and hang out with a kid(Whose name escapes me) and go on silly little adventures with him, sometimes fighting off Dr. Wily. This is starting to sound familiar, I'll bet.

These two examples lead me to believe that Chris's humanity wasn't the point. He was made to be relatable by virtue of being an "ordinary child from ordinary Earth", not so much a "Human compared to a bunch of animals." It's still a flawed concept, and he's just as unneeded as Goemon's Tsukasa and Megaman's... kid whose name I forgot. So yeah. His humanity is only noticeable because it makes him stand out from most of the game cast, but I really don't think- in light of the other game-to-anime examples- that it was the intended selling point of his supposed relatability. It doesn't seem so, at least.

[Flyboy Fox]

Cosmo was indeed as superfluous and unnecessary as Chris, I agree. But she didn't replace Chris, and her purpose wasn't the same. We weren't meant to see the show and its happenings through her eyes. Quite the opposite, in fact. While Chris represented what we, the audience, would consider the norm, Cosmo represented the other extreme - something so totally alien that it was alien even to the anthro animal cast who came from another world. So it's kind of apples and oranges here.

Chris being human is relevant because Earth in this show is human populated. Like I said, he would never have been an anthro animal because this is a human world. He's there for us to relate to. Therefore his humanity is a dominant feature because it's what allows the audience to supposedly connect with him. Kids are supposed to want to be him, because he's a regular kid from the regular world, just like them. His normality and his humanity are intertwined and inseperable, just like Cosmo was made to be something so different... not an alien human or even an alien animal... she was an alien plant. I do think the producers were very deliberate in their choices here.

[Leon K Fox]

Although I agree that his problems were hugely to do with characterisation issues, I do think that him being a human was an issue, and here's why:

Chris was inserted into the series to provide a bridge between 'them' (the furries) and 'us' (the human kids watching). His being human was an extremely patronising suggestion that kids wouldn't be able to relate to a bunch of super-powered animal characters without a normal little human boy to 'see' it all through.

A tag-along character was unnecessary, regardless of being human or not... but I don't think they would have even contemplated an animal character tag-along. Chris was chosen because he is a human, and therefore his humanity is actually a negative trait in this context.

I honestly think that both Flyboy's and El Grans' points are correct, Chris' insertion was indeed implying that kids couldn't relate to Sonic without a human kid there (which, let's face it is not true) but alot of it also was his characterisation. He was supposed to be the "link" as it were between the humans and the anthros, but he was so unlikeable a character because of how ungrateful he was (having alot of money, good friends, family members living with him etc and he's all emo and acts like he has problems he doesn't have) that we just don't feel that connection, and it confuses us as to just why the anthros connect with him because of his hard to like character.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

[SchemingMinor]

Well, here's my "envisionment":

Name: Sonic Ecstacy

Genre: Sci-Fi/Acticom/Drama.

Animation Style: American/Japanese 50/50.

Characters & Characteristiscs:

Sonic:

S1: Like what he is in Sonic X.

S2: A Trippy Goofball/An "Animal" in Warfare. (Pro-Rave)

Tails:

S1: Like what he is in Sonic X.

S2: A Punk/Geek personality.

Knuckles:

S1: Like what he is in Sonic X.

S2: A hood-seeking shy-guy. Starts hangin' out with Shade.

Amy:

S1: Like what she is in Sonic X.

S2: More of a lil'Rouge S1.

Shadow:

S1: Like what he is in Sonic X.

S2: As an opposite to Sonic, he becomes an 80's New Romantic/Yuppie. (Pre-Rave)

Rouge:

S1: Like what she is in Sonic X.

S2: An Amy Winehouse kinda girl.

Blaze:

S1: Like what she is in SR/A and S'06.

S2: Starts hangin' out with the other girls.

Silver:

S1: Like what he is in S'06.

S2: Starts accepting the past as present. (Post-Rave)

Shade:

S1: Like what she is in SC: tDBh.

S2: Starts hangin' more with the girls and Knuckles.

The girls hangin' out like Sex & the City or Cashmere Mafia.

Amy = the lead role, of course. White Trash, Back-2-Nature kinda girl.

Rouge = Amy's nearest friend. half hood, half high street.

Blaze = the classy one.

Shade = the girl from the hood.

And they have two Chaos Emeralds; the Golden for Sense and The Purple for Vanity.

The Guys being the "5 elements" thing.

Sonic = Earth - "Loma Prieta Attack!" - Green C.E

Tails = Wind - "Katrina Attack!" - Turquoise C.E

Knuckles = Water - "Banda Aceh Attack!" - Blue C.E

Shadow = Fire - "Anaheim Attack!" - Red C.E

Silver = Metal - "Chernobyl Attack!" - White C.E

And relationships between characters begins to be visible at S2, with these:

Sonic/Amy - I'TS OBVIOUS & FATEFUL!

Tails/Cream - I know she isn't visible here, but they're havin' quite a lot of cell phone activity going on.

Knuckles/Shade - when Shade showed up, Knux were speechless.

Shadow/Rouge - their "Mr & Mrs Smith" relationship will never end.

Silver/Blaze - mind-blowing, passionate & high street.

I kinda like it. Do you?

EDIT: NO FREAKIN' HUMANZ! Just in the Background.

Opinion or not, I just had a major facepalm.

[SchemingMinor]

You kno' what? I had it too.

On your own thoughts? Wow.

Really, just think about what your post consists of. This is basically a guide on how not to do a Sonic series, full of contrived stereotypes and pandering to false demographics. Also it basically screams in bold letters akin to a horrible caps lock Sonic fanfic,which to add on top of that, the author also thought that adding in elements of Twilight was a ground breaking idea. It reeks like a roundtable of marketers grasping on what they think is "hip" and assume what children like. Apparently you just realized it with your last post after your facepalm, however, and I will give you credit for that.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Kintobor

[Miko]

I liked how Sonic Underground Robotnik wasn't vying for complete control of the environment. While SatAM Robotnik did this and it provided an interesting foil that provided a foundation for Sonic's beliefs and values, SU Robotnik did things in a way most powers that be do things. It's not as great a foil for Sonic's freedom but it has the potential to foil and highlight other aspects of his character. By ruling by taking from the economy, there's less of a resistance because people want to be rich, and because of the fact that most people are docile to the idea a great sum of the wealth is owned by a few people. In short, more people are willing to not only live in these kinds of conditions, but fight for it. Sonic could look under certain conditions more edgier, less like he's just a boyscout and more of his own character, willing to break from many members of a crowd to be seen as someone more distinct in how he attains his goals. The music sucked an it's a shame they didn't take from the classic soundtrack but it was an interesting idea. Today IF Sonic Underground were managed by SEGA and the music done by it's people, I'd have had at least a little more faith in it. SU's songs were just meant to get money off royalties. No effort or care put in it whatsoever.

[BakingBluePotatoe]

Something simple, yet can distinguish itself from the Games and Comics... (AoSTH {more like Adventure of Sonic and Tails [not that I minded <3]} was clearly an advert for Sonic 2 {but regardless, I love that show. <3}) (aw, damnit, I'm stuck in the 90s again...)

Um...

I dunno. D=

Something involving Sonic and Tails again... xD

EDIT:

I got it.

It's called "Sonic and Tails Adventures" (I challange YOU to come up with something better...)

And it focuses on Sonic and Tails' travels whilst foiling Dr. Eggman's various plans to take over the world... (I guess like AoSTH in a way... but far less cartoony, and taking itself seriously.... I guess like the OVA.)

Amy and Knuckles occasionally appear, and Metal Sonic is a recurring rival.

... maybe Cream can appear once in a blue moon. Just cuz.

(EDIT: AND MIGHTY. He's a traveler too, is he not?)

(EDIT: and Knuckles is a treasue hunter again. And has that pet Dinosaur. x3)

Oh, and Eggman has his special ability to break the fourth wall back. xD (If wanting to take over Sonic X and rename it Eggman X and have it star himself as the main character isn't breaking the fourth wall, then I don't know what the fuck is.)

...Speaking of Eggman, he once again has some robot sidekicks. It's been proven he can have sidekicks without being overshadowed. Twice.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Blue Streak

[Flyboy Fox]

I like the premise, but the name is corny as hell XD Change the name and I would definitely watch it!

[BakingBluePotatoe]

I like the premise, but the name is corny as hell XD Change the name and I would definitely watch it!

...I couldn't think of anything. xD

.... uh........ *thinks*

How about just Sonic & Tails Adventures then?

[Leon K Fox]

...I couldn't think of anything. xD

.... uh........ *thinks*

How about just Sonic & Tails Adventures then?

Too similar to AoSTH, but don't worry, I suck at coming up with names as well ^^; (even for things as simple as my YouTube videos)

Edited July 4, 2009 by Leon K Fox