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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)

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5 hours ago, Blacklightning said:

I'ma just lay out a hot take while it's still fresh on my mind. Whenever the subject of cynical, shareholder-focused money grabs like this comes up, a similar strain of logic is brought up pretty much each time - that the audience for lack of a better word can't engage with the subject material, and their solution to that is something they can engage with by proxy. To put it in layman's terms, basically what Sonic X did - because of the belief that Sonic and his world is too "weird", they set it in modern day Earth and gave an otherwise unremarkable human being equal billing with Sonic himself. Now let me just preface this by saying I believe this argument is the purest bullshit, but humouring it gave me a handful of interesting thoughts I hadn't really considered before.

Let me get the more obvious one out of the way first - whatever they're trying with this, they're really fucking bad at it. When I say "by proxy", I mean a position a member of the intended audience could see themselves in. For example, a lot of recent monster movies like your Godzillas and your Rampages and your King Kongs, they'll most likely throw in a tough human lead because publishers don't think a literal monster will be able to carry a feature film by itself and much of the audience will be watching it for the fights so it's possible they think the audience identifies with that on some level. Obviously Sonic hasn't been entirely spared from that train of thought because I already mentioned Sonic X, which had Chris Thorndyke acting as an audience stand-in.

Now if you're like me you've probably read all that and started thinking "hang on a minute, what part of a middle aged cop with a tranq gun is supposed to identify with the audience of a Sonic movie?", and that's just the thing - it absolutely doesn't, on any conceivable level. I'm just going to say this part straight. Like it or not, Sonic is a franchise geared at kids. Chris was a kid because most of the people watching Sonic X were kids. Most of the Sonic cast themselves, though not always overtly, are kids because the audience playing their games are generally kids. Even Ken fucking Penders, absolute hack as he is, wasn't dumb enough to cast anything other than a kid for this purpose when he tried pitching a Sonic film of his own. It takes a truly impressive feat of mental gymnastics to take an approach to narrative this cynical and manage to fuck up really hard even by THOSE expectations like they did with Tom the cop here, who at best sounds like they only have anything in common with a very small number of parents that have to look after their kids through this shit show.

That brings me to probably the more controversial of my two hot takes. It needs to be said that Paramount is leaning hard on the "isolated alien" angle, to the extent that it seems to form the bulk of the overarching plot - weird alien creature appears, government want to contain weird alien creature. I'm saying "alien" a lot here because I mean that in more than the strictly literal sense. Not just that he's from another world, but that he doesn't fit in even aesthetically, despite all the work they've done to accomodate his looks in a live action flick. And this would go back to the very first point - Sonic is alien to the audience too, so the need for a stand-in character is perceived as a necessity. This is why I've come to believe that Sonic's design isn't an accident, or even a negligent point of view - but rather a completely intentional design decision made soley to force the alienation angle, in more ways than one.

And to me that makes sense in a lot of ways, not just to push their cynical, self-fulfilling prophecy but to give what looks like an astonishly low budget CG flick an excuse to only need to render one actual CG character at any given time, not counting Eggman's robots and stuff like that. Now I'm not a fucking mind reader and can't say for sure what was going through their heads exactly when they decided Sonic looked okay with that, because for all I know they could have been coked out of their mind and using design documents as toilet paper 90% of the time and it would have sounded equally as plausible - but Hollywood in general, nevermind VG movies, have been drinking in this kind of cynical bullshit far too long for me to just rule it out, and on some level that still scares and sickens me.

I'm really tired and admittedly rambling so hopefully that all makes some semblance of sense. Maybe it sounded better in my head.

In this case, I consider Sonic X's inclusion of Chris and the movie's inclusion of Tom to be two separate animals.  The narrative justification is the same on paper, but when it comes things like the live action movie, I tend to think that is just the justification they throw out because it sounds like they're more invested in the artistic integrity of the story telling, rather than transparently throwing out marketing mumbo jumbo. I think the obligatory human protagonist has no real intention other than to have the actor carry a lot of the weight of the film's marketing.  This tends to manifest itself a lot in the actual films.  Peter Rabbit isn't a movie about the eponymous character and his friends.  They are there and interact with the plot to a certain extent, but the critical focus of the movie is on Domhnall Gleeson's character winning the affections of Rose Byrne's character.  The Smurfs isn't about the actual Smurfs.  Again, they do interact with the plot and exist for the duration of the movie, but the core of the movie is about Niel Patrick Harris.  Going really far back, Kangaroo Jack isn't about the titular Kangaroo, it's about the tense gay subtext bromance between Jerry O'Connell and Anthony Anderson as well as the former's awkwardly unfolding romantic relationship with Estella Warren's character.  This is a rather extreme one, because despite being the titular character and the majority of the marketing focus, Kangaroo Jack is barely in the movie, and despite what the commercials showed, he can't even really talk.  The one and only time he does is during a... rather weird dream sequence mid-way through the movie.

All this to say that I will at least give the movie credit in that I'm expecting Sonic will actually have a larger role than the examples I've listed.  But I'm still expecting in some way the emotional core of the movie's narrative will be focused on Tom in some way.  Because the movie won't be about Sonic, but about James Marsden.  Even if Sonic is instrumental in that emotional core, the crux of the character development will still be on Tom.

As a disclaimer, I'm not saying with certainty that will be the case, but some basic pattern recognition makes it highly likely to me.

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14 hours ago, Legendary Emerald said:

 The Ghosbusters 2016 trailer that this thread so often brings up was indeed no good, but the film itself turned out to be perfectly fine and funny, and a lot of the people who still hold strong negative feelings for the film either 1) never saw it when it came out, or 2) are the type of people who watched and created videos with titles such as "Feminazis RUIN the GhostBUSTAHs." It was a slightly above average comedy (by Hollywood standards) and dealt no damage to the franchise overall.

Ok hold on, that movie sucks ass and you can't just throw away the very large amount of disdain for it by saying those people are sexist losers or havent even seen it

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You know what I think ticks me off most about this movie, at least currently?

The degree to which it replaces story elements from the games with story elements it just made up.  I could believe this movie was holding back on more mythology because it feels an obligation to provide it a solid origin, but instead it's piling in things that seem to drag the plot further away.

Think about this factor: The entire conflict in this movie exists because it gave Sonic a strange electric power that he doesn't have in the games.  What else it even does, I don't know, but the EMP blast it caused is the movie's excuse for why Sonic and Robotnik become enemies.  Not Robotnik having imperial ambitions or polluting the environment or harming animals and Sonic getting mad at him.  You'd think all of that would be simple enough for anyone to understand, but instead they threw it all out and fudged a new conflict.  It's bad enough that these characters don't look enough like their game selves, but their motives are totally different, too!

That just reeks of disrespect.  The game's original plot may not be deep, but it's themes of environmentalism and the hazards of excessive technological progress and industrialism are still relevant.  They would need to add more; that I concede.  A mostly live-action film probably needs more humans to tie those themes back to our world.  But this film is casting aside that potential entirely, and in doing so, also casting aside a chance to establish a more faithful plot in the sequels.

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17 hours ago, Mayor D said:

You are not seriously claiming the reason this Trailer is so disliked is because someone told all those people to do it for the lulz?

I have a simpler theory. The trailer sucks.

I'm going to request a citation to this conspiracy theory.

Okay I'll take back what I said about 'the lulz'. What I won't take back, is that there are thousands who are doing it because they were told to.

And stop twisting my words. I didn't say everybody that hit the dislike button didn't genuinely think the trailer sucked. I believe the majority did.

 

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11 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

Okay I'll take back what I said about 'the lulz'. What I won't take back, is that they are thousands who are doing it because they were told to.

And stop twisting my words. I didn't say everybody that hit the dislike button didn't genuinely think the trailer sucked. I believe the majority did.

 

I can't 100% defend this trailer because yes, Sonic looks pretty darn weird. I'd say some criticisms are indeed justified, but I do believe alot of the dislikes are simply people jumping on the bandwagon of hating on this simply because it's Sonic. They did it with Shadow, they did it with 06, they did it with Unleashed, they did it with Boom, they did it with Forces. They're doing it now. Hating on Sonic is just a thing now, it seems.

The trailer is far from perfect, but nearly 400k dislikes? I mean, it's not THAT bad people.

But it is nice to see that 48 hours later, the trailer is still #1 trending on YouTube, even above Detective Pikachu!

Also the amount of likes, while overshadowed by dislikes, are still pretty impressive. 248K likes is no small number. And that's not counting the amount of likes on other channels like Paramount UK, Furious Trailer, Kinocheck, Accesstrailers, etc.

The trailer also has 101k likes on twitter. Not too shabby.

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I still have a few pages to read on this thread, but has anyone brought up that Robotnik/Eggman wasn't always fat, and at one point Sonic did get his speed from a lightning experiment? Ovi Kintobar.

200?cb=20090417200204

Incidentally, is Jim Carrey getting called Robotnik, Eggman, or both?

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5 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

I still have a few pages to read on this thread, but has anyone brought up that Robotnik/Eggman wasn't always fat, and at one point Sonic did get his speed from a lightning experiment? Ovi Kintobar.

200?cb=20090417200204

Incidentally, is Jim Carrey getting called Robotnik, Eggman, or both?

He was already fast, got gifted some shoes that reduce friction and broke the sound barrier that turned him blue.

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6 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Incidentally, is Jim Carrey getting called Robotnik, Eggman, or both?

He's often credited in news articles & IMDB as Robotnik in this. 

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9 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

I still have a few pages to read on this thread, but has anyone brought up that Robotnik/Eggman wasn't always fat, and at one point Sonic did get his speed from a lightning experiment? Ovi Kintobar.

200?cb=20090417200204

I think many Sonic fans are aware of that western origins story comic. But also that comic isn't canon to the rest of the series and never was. So there isn't much reason for anybody to point it out.

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1 hour ago, Myst said:

people jumping on the bandwagon of hating on this simply because it's Sonic. They did it with Shadow, they did it with 06, they did it with Unleashed, they did it with Boom, they did it with Forces. They're doing it now. Hating on Sonic is just a thing now, it seems. 

In my book, all of those things you listed are worthy of dislike.

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2 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

What I won't take back, is that there are thousands who are doing it because they were told to

LOL! Oh yeah ok alright. 

Is there even any point asking for the names of people and then proof that people actually disliked it because they were told to over the fact that they thought it just sucked?

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1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

LOL! Oh yeah ok alright. 

Is there even any point asking for the names of people and then proof that people actually disliked it because they were told to over the fact that they thought it just sucked?

You are so predictable. I was waiting for you to question me this, so I prepared this just in case.

https://imgur.com/QTAzVzm

Now I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to dig around 11,000 comments.

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4 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

You are so predictable. I was waiting for you to question me this, so I prepared this just in case.

https://imgur.com/QTAzVzm

Now I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to dig around 11,000 comments.

Asking for people to downvote is doesn't account to much if people ignore comments like that. Plus, I'm sure there are the same type of people in the other camp, telling people to upvote it. I think the two cancel each other out in the end.

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Just now, Tarnish said:

Asking for people to downvote is doesn't account to much if people ignore comments like that. Plus, I'm sure there are the same type of people in the other camp, telling people to upvote it. I think the two cancel each other out in the end.

I actually looked for that, but couldn't find any within the 5 minutes I looked at the comments.

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1 hour ago, BaronGrackle said:

I still have a few pages to read on this thread, but has anyone brought up that Robotnik/Eggman wasn't always fat, and at one point Sonic did get his speed from a lightning experiment? Ovi Kintobar.

200?cb=20090417200204

Incidentally, is Jim Carrey getting called Robotnik, Eggman, or both?

Eggman doesn't sound fitting for him since he isn't, well, in that eggshaped fit.

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22 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

You are so predictable. I was waiting for you to question me this, so I prepared this just in case.

https://imgur.com/QTAzVzm

Now I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to dig around 11,000 comments.

Still the trailer sucks no matter how you slice it, the composition sucks, the music choice is inappropriate and the tone of the trailer is all wrong.

Sorry my dude but there are legitimate reasons to hate the trailer.

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14 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

I actually looked for that, but couldn't find any within the 5 minutes I looked at the comments.

I'm sure they exist. Blind lovers are just as much as a thing as blind haters.

Although not a request to upvote, there's people like this lovely chap on the SA3 FB page who considers the movie "pissing Sonic Stadium off" a posivite about the movie, so the type of people who defend something because others hate it is definitely a thing.

SA3.jpg

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Just now, MadmanRB said:

Still the trailer sucks no matter how you slice it, the composition sucks, the music choice is inappropriate and the tone of the trailer is all wrong.

Sorry my dude but there are legitimate reasons to hate the trailer.

Ehhh...nowhere did I say the trailer was good. I agree that the trailer was bad.

2 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

I'm sure they exist. Blind lovers are just as much as a thing as blind haters.

Although not a request to upvote, there's people like this lovely chap on the SA3 FB page who considers the movie "pissing Sonic Stadium off" a posivite about the movie, so the type of people who defend something because others hate it is definitely a thing.

SA3.jpg

I'm sure they exist, but they are the minority compared to the "let's dislike!" majority. Within 5 minutes I got those comments, while I got none for the opposite. But again, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

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24 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

Ehhh...nowhere did I say the trailer was good. I agree that the trailer was bad.

I'm sure they exist, but they are the minority compared to the "let's dislike!" majority. Within 5 minutes I got those comments, while I got none for the opposite. But again, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Maybe, but as people already pointed out, there were massively downvoted movie/video game trailers that despite the trailer reaction, made ton of money, so I don't really get the obsession with caring so much about downvoting youtube videos.

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45 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

You are so predictable. I was waiting for you to question me this, so I prepared this just in case.

https://imgur.com/QTAzVzm

Now I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to dig around 11,000 comments.

LMAO!

What the fuck does this prove other than someone wrote "Everybody downvote this!" 

It doesn't prove at all that people disliked the video because someone wrote those comments, it doesn't prove that there was a pre-planned organised campaign which hundred of thousands took notice of to downvote it.

We're dealing with numbers in the HUNDREDS of thousands here who watched this and didn't like it. But you're claiming that most of that, or a portion of that can be brushed off as being just a campaign? 

Seriously what kind of tin foil hat nonsense is this?

 

Lord just turn this around the other way and you realise how daft of an argument it is. "Oh the only reason this video got so many positive votes was because someone told other people to rate it positive!"

19 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

 there's people like this lovely chap on the SA3 FB page who considers the movie "pissing Sonic Stadium off" a posivite about the movie, so the type of people who defend something because others hate it is definitely a thing.

Yeah I was told about this. That person is actually a member here who is doing a really bad job of hiding their identity.

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12 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

LMAO!

What the fuck does this prove other than someone wrote "Everybody downvote this!" 

It doesn't prove at all that people disliked the video because someone wrote those comments. Seriously what kind of tin foil hat nonsense is this?

:lol: I think it's you with the tin foiled hat.

When people go around and shout "Everyone downvote this!", even with some likes within those comments, you honestly think no one, after seeing those comments, will not go ahead and dislike the video? Where are the comments saying "this is silly?" Or people downvoting those comments? Seriously. 

EDIT:

12 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

We're dealing with numbers in the HUNDREDS of thousands here who watched this and didn't like it. But you're claiming that most of that, or a portion of that can be brushed off as being just a campaign? 

You are twisting my words. Again.

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15 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

When people go around and shout "Everyone downvote this!", even with some likes within those comments, you honestly think no one, after seeing those comments, will not go ahead and dislike the video? Where are the comments saying "this is silly?" Or people downvoting those comments? Seriously. 

Ok lets assume this nonsense is scientifically accurate.

Total number of dislikes on the video: 415,000

Lets assume all the likes on the 'everybody dislike lolz' comments are unique people including the OP who did in fact downvote the video because they were told to: 131

Total number of people who were directly influenced to down-vote the video as a percentage: 0.0315%

And I even included the numbers from the comment you posted in your picture didn't actually tell people to down vote the video, just that they thought it looked bad.

 

So unless you're actually going to post definitive proof that this actually means something, this is a tin foil hat show.

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2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Ok lets assume this nonsense is scientifically accurate.

Total number of dislikes on the video: 415,000

Lets assume all the likes on the 'everybody dislike lolz' are unique people including the OP who did in fact downvote the video because they were told to: 131

Total number of people who were directly influenced to down-vote the video as a percentage: 0.0315%

And I even included the numbers from the comment you posted in your picture didn't actually tell people to down vote the video, just that they thought it looked bad.

 

So unless you're actually going to post definitive proof that this actually means something, this is a tin foil hat show.

This is like me asking you to provide proof that every single dislike on that video is genuine and not influenced by anybody else, just themselves.

Yep, CoD: IW sure didn't sell blockbusters. Because the number of dislikes outweighed the likes, by millions...NO WAY some of these dislikes were influenced by others, trying to make it the worst disliked YT video of all time, right?

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