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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)

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9 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

This is not something done out of love for a fandom, or respect for others, it's done because they got a point blank showing that everyone thought it looked hideous, and that very reaction would've cost them revenue, and tons of it. Not only because so many people probably wouldn't have gone to see it because of how horrid Sonic looked in it, but because there was absolutely, positively no way in hell anyone was going to buy merchandise based on that horrid design, which is likely what they're placing their bank on. It's very clearly a motivation born of business and nothing else. 

Oh right, I forgot, there's something else I wanted to add onto this point - but even in terms of the delay, and redesign - it's a calculated decision. Paramount was heavily relying on the movie's release in November because that then sets up the merchandise sales for Christmas. A massive movie studio like Paramount does not just shift a release date as quickly as they did, and while it's good they did so because it means animators and workers aren't going to experience crunch-time, again - it should not be treated like a sign of good will to the fanbase, the audiences, or even the workers.

The more likely answer is that Paramount calculated how long it would take to redesign Sonic, reedit him into the finished cut (which if the reddit leaks are true - there was a finished cut), and then had to figure out which would lose them more money in the long run. Sonic's design is the crux of their merchandising deals for this movie. They are going to make merchandise on characters like Tom, his girlfriend (whatever the hell her generic name is), the general, the bad robot designs, etc - but the only two characters who will sell this merchandise because frankly, they're the only two anyone gives half a shit about is Sonic, and Eggman.

As I theorised before, Eggman has at least three different designs in this movie, which would just very conveniently slide into making three different action figure variations of when the time comes. Given we know a Baby Sonic toy is also being made, even though he only appears in the movie for a short length of time from what we've heard, I fully believe Paramount are banking on the toy and merchandising sales for this movie as a huge chunk of their profits, and the movie itself was made with this ideal in mind, I see no other reason for garbage like Baby Sonic, and Eggman's generic black labcoat design.

So with all that said, what happens when Paramount realises no one likes this design? Not only do they lose tons and tons of movie ticket sales because no one will likely go see the movie, especially with a beloved character bastardised in it, but when it comes to trying to see the merchandise and toys that they're likely banking on Sonic to carry? Well I'd theorise that the Sonic movie line of action figures wouldn't exactly sell for Christmas, and probably be in a bargain bin by February, no one is gonna want a action figure or T-Shirt of Movie Sonic unless it's for a meme, or to burn it. 

So Paramount likely did a price comparison of how much they would lose if they delay, and redesign Sonic, or if they stick to their guns and go with the original design, I think the more likely answer is delaying the movie and doing a full redesign would make them lose less money than releasing it as is, where they probably projected that it would bomb based on the utter hatred the internet has shown it. I fully believe in terms of Paramount, they're desperately just trying to salvage whatever they can from the movie before it all goes to utter shit.  

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16 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Just because the changes were done in an entirely profit-driven sense doesn’t mean we shouldn’t support the film. 

I'm not arguing for you supporting the movie or not, because I personally believe there are far deeper issues with this film that should be making support of the movie spotty at best. If you want to support it, by all means - do so, I'm not gonna give you shit for it, even if I think this film doesn't deserve it. 

But pretending that Paramount and the filmmakers of this film should be given points for A. listening to feedback, and B. Looking out for fans is downright ludicrous. They were more than happy to shit talk detractors of the design, and constantly go on about how good it was and it was the internet's fault for not giving it a chance. Then when they were proven wrong, and it was in fact - a shit design, they backpedalled, tried to act like they were in on the joke and "oh yeah it was a bad design all along lel" and are now changing the design. 

They don't deserve praise for doing that, because they were more than fine with shoving out everyone else's opinions until they were given undeniable proof that their design was shit when it became an internet meme, and was being laughed at everywhere. This is a purely business decision from Paramount, executives, and whoever else when they realised that this was not going to end well for them in terms of profits, and I think the idea that they do deserve this praise is a load of shit. Just because something is beneficial to us, does not mean that the decision was made because of them thinking about us. 

As I said, the same way that EA shouldn't deserve praise because of them fixing their own obvious mistakes with Battlefront 2, Paramount doesn't deserve praise for their own misgivings with this film and their desperate attempts to fix them before release now, especially after how many times they were told time and again long before the point that the movie released. Better yet - not even from fans - from SEGA themselves, and they still went through with it. 

But to answer your point at hand - just because it was done entirely in profit driven sense is not a reason why you shouldn't support this film. It is in fact a reason why you should know full well that these people were not listening to fan feedback, and were not caring for the fanbase and their opinions - they cared about the fact it was going to cost them money. The reason why people aren't supporting this film, from my perspective is because it's a shoddy generic film with bad writing, a cliched story, boring cast, and for the many, many, many reasons that have been explained in this topic over and over and over again in gigantic detail.

If you want to support the film, more power to you, but I think it's long since been proven time and time again where these "people should be supporting this movie because it's sonic" arguments have led in the past.

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I'm not arguing for you supporting the movie or not, because I personally believe there are far deeper issues with this film that should be making support of the movie spotty at best. If you want to support it, by all means - do so, I'm not gonna give you shit for it, even if I think this film doesn't deserve it. 

But pretending that Paramount and the filmmakers of this film should be given points for A. listening to feedback, and B. Looking out for fans is downright ludicrous. They were more than happy to shit talk detractors of the design, and constantly go on about how good it was and it was the internet's fault for not giving it a chance. Then when they were proven wrong, and it was in fact - a shit design, they backpedalled, tried to act like they were in on the joke and "oh yeah it was a bad design all along lel" and are now changing the design. 

They don't deserve praise for doing that, because they were more than fine with shoving out everyone else's opinions until they were given undeniable proof that their design was shit when it became an internet meme, and was being laughed at everywhere. This is a purely business decision from Paramount, executives, and whoever else when they realised that this was not going to end well for them in terms of profits, and I think the idea that they do deserve this praise is a load of shit. Just because something is beneficial to us, does not mean that the decision was made because of them thinking about us. 

As I said, the same way that EA shouldn't deserve praise because of them fixing their own obvious mistakes with Battlefront 2, Paramount doesn't deserve praise for their own misgivings with this film and their desperate attempts to fix them before release now, especially after how many times they were told time and again long before the point that the movie released. Better yet - not even from fans - from SEGA themselves, and they still went through with it. 

But to answer your point at hand - just because it was done entirely in profit driven sense is not a reason why you shouldn't support this film. It is in fact a reason why you should know full well that these people were not listening to fan feedback, and were not caring for the fanbase and their opinions - they cared about the fact it was going to cost them money. The reason why people aren't supporting this film, from my perspective is because it's a shoddy generic film with bad writing, a cliched story, boring cast, and for the many, many, many reasons that have been explained in this topic over and over and over again in gigantic detail.

If you want to support the film, more power to you, but I think it's long since been proven time and time again where these "people should be supporting this movie because it's sonic" arguments have led in the past.

There's still the question of the poor animators forced to work for hours and hours. Oh, and tell me, why does Disney get a pass when they do the same thing with Dumbo? It’s not like this decision will hurt anybody, either. 

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1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Why do people wanna see regular Sonic saying those boring/negative lines?

Yeah, just because Sonic is improved, doesn't make the crappy writing/jokes and the hammy or bland acting and underwhelming action set pieces any better.

It's just basically Hop fused with Bayformers.

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2 hours ago, CaptainRobo said:

So, I found this. Someone made an trailer with the Normal Sonic. It’s looks cool. This is what could have been, if they put the Normal one in instead of the one that they made for the movie.

 

Now he just looks like a talking stuffed plush toy if I'm perfectly honest.

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12 hours ago, AdventChild said:

Yeah, just because Sonic is improved, doesn't make the crappy writing/jokes and the hammy or bland acting and underwhelming action set pieces any better.

It's just basically Hop fused with Bayformers.

Truly.  Except at least some of the Bayformers robots resemble their counterparts in other Transformers universes.

This movie can get a pretty paint job, but ultimately that isn't going to do much more on its own besides put it on the same level of respectability as so many other live-action films starring CGI characters, and that it took longer to get there will remain a point against it compared to them.  Worse still, many consider Detective Pikachu to have finally gotten the formula correct, and when you combine that with how we've already gotten a good taste of the joke quality the film will feature, this film is going to feel dead on arrival.

As for merchandise, I must say that they're between a rock and a hard place there.  Sonic toys won't sell if they're too ugly, but if they're fixing his design by making him more like his game counterpart, going too far in that direction is also a risk, since he'll resemble a toy many people already own.  That is of course before we remember that a lack of game elements limits the potential for toys.

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54 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Truly.  Except at least some of the Bayformers robots resemble their counterparts in other Transformers universes.

This movie can get a pretty paint job, but ultimately that isn't going to do much more on its own besides put it on the same level of respectability as so many other live-action films starring CGI characters, and that it took longer to get there will remain a point against them.  Worse still, many consider Detective Pikachu to have finally gotten the formula correct, and when you combine that with how we've already gotten a good taste of the joke quality the film will feature, this film is going to feel dead on arrival.

As for merchandise, I must say that they're between a rock and a hard place there.  Sonic toys won't sell if they're too ugly, but if they're fixing his design by making him more like his game counterpart, going too far in that direction is also a risk, since he'll resemble a toy many people already own.  That is of course before we remember that a lack of game elements limits the potential for toys.

I will say that Sonic toys are pretty rare in the brick and mortar world. Toys R Us is dead now; the only other place I saw them was at Target when Sonic Generations was coming out. If Sonic can get on Walmart's shelf space, it'd be an achievement.

(EDIT: This comment excluded the LEGO Dimensions pack.)

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4 hours ago, CaptainRobo said:

So, I found this. Someone made an trailer with the Normal Sonic. It’s looks cool. This is what could have been, if they put the Normal one in instead of the one that they made for the movie.

 

That just looks bad. Its like fans can not come to terms they WERE trying to go with a more realistic animal take on sonic. As if something if i woke up in a mutated world and I would expect to see at my doorstep. Sure again I agree with the statment his face was bad. Just horrible but otherwise it was ok. The whole cartoon sonic is not something i would expect to see. NOW if this movie had been ready player one verse where sonic is an established game character in it then maybe but even then that "cartoon model" just looks bad imo. Paramount was chasing the money and it backfired on them. I do wonder how they plan to save the film though.

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But why was it a bad idea. If they gave sonic a more unison eye would it have been better. Cause honestly has anyone actually looked at a real hedgehog. Movie or past movie verse sonic looked like one. Regardless of whatever he ends up looking like be it glooves, pants, durag, etc if the story does not hold up I am doubtful we will see anything else sonic wise in the form of a movie for a long time. Im looking at you mario movie.  BUT then again as I have said in the past. D.pikas story was bad and boring yet fans ate up the :look: rather than anything dealing with the story and praised it. Well besides metacritic. last i looked it had a 54

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21 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

But why was it a bad idea. If they gave sonic a more unison eye would it have been better. Cause honestly has anyone actually looked at a real hedgehog. Movie or past movie verse sonic looked like one. Regardless of whatever he ends up looking like be it glooves, pants, durag, etc if the story does not hold up I am doubtful we will see anything else sonic wise in the form of a movie for a long time. Im looking at you mario movie.  BUT then again as I have said in the past. D.pikas story was bad and boring yet fans ate up the :look: rather than anything dealing with the story and praised it. Well besides metacritic. last i looked it had a 54

Because taking a cartoon character designed to be heavily stylised and on top of that - stuck in a imaginative/creative world as the literal designer of Sonic himself said when this design came out and trying to force it into a realistic shell makes something out of the uncanny valley. To be absolutely frank, given they're trying to sell this product to me, and others - I don't give half a shit about what they intended, I care about what the final result looks like, and the final result looks like a horrific mutant. 

It was a bad idea because it wasn't supposed to happen, and their attempt to do it looked awful, there isn't any further explanation needed than that. 

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14 hours ago, Rabid-Coot said:

Even with some non fans in the mix the hate for the pre-trailer materials is going to look like all the other cases of we hate x change it that productions have to deal with. They took the gamble that they would find an audience and lost now we get to say told you so.

The problem with that is it wasn't just some vocal minority making fun of it, from the moment the first poster dropped, everybody hated it.

The fact that the writer had to condescendingly tell people to calm down is indicative of a much larger issue.

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17 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

The problem with that is it wasn't just some vocal minority making fun of it, from the moment the first poster dropped, everybody hated it.

The fact that the writer had to condescendingly tell people to calm down is indicative of a much larger issue.

Movies should learn something that even shops have come to understand in their marketing: the customer/consumer is always right. And what does that mean? If the customer thinks your product is crap and they won't buy it, you can't convince them otherwise, because you failed to appeal to the customer. And if it happens on a scale as wide as this, then guess what, your product sucks, and the customer is completely right to say it is.

It's fun to knock Hollywood executives off their pedestal, because they are so far detached from reality, that they need something to pull them back in. Condescending attitudes can't save you from losing profits.

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5 minutes ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

Movies should learn something that even shops have come to understand in their marketing: the customer/consumer is always right.

Ehhh I wouldn't go that far. Because, the customer is often an idiot. Obviously you want your product/art/whatever to appeal to people, but people are often poor judges of what will actually satisfy them, especially when it comes to abstract things like entertainment, even when they're the type to try to understand how things work and what they want to see.

Obviously though the Sonic design is still fuuuuucking horrible and there's really no excuse for it regardless of how much weight you put on the customer's opinions.

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Just now, Diogenes said:

Ehhh I wouldn't go that far. Because, the customer is often an idiot. Obviously you want your product/art/whatever to appeal to people, but people are often poor judges of what will actually satisfy them, especially when it comes to abstract things like entertainment, even when they're the type to try to understand how things work and what they want to see.

Obviously though the Sonic design is still fuuuuucking horrible and there's really no excuse for it regardless of how much weight you put on the customer's opinions.

Okay, so I went a little too far. Obviously, you don't listen to every little complaint, that's draining and doesn't help, and will always appear regardless of what you do. Basically, if there's a wide negative reaction against your film, you've already lost most of your audience, and no amount of goalpost shifting and "respect our vision" quotes will change that. By that point, I'd just say to go through with the movie and never speak of it again, but they intend to make something good out of it, whatever that's like.

It just boggles the mind when the writing was on the wall about how bad the design was from silhouette alone, yet the producers and filmmakers didn't care until the last minute.

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I mean with how much sonic is made fun of and constantly in todays world makes fun of itself constantly compared to the sonic of the 90s and early 00s, today you can rarely make it a day without the twitter or people making jokes about the franchise as a whole and with Ruby and the rest bringing in aaron to promote the game at times when nearly every sonic video they play they do noting but make fun of the franchise.  can you blame them. They probably thought it would sell on name alone but it did not work

 

Honestly what they needed was john ceena

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6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

I mean, that's the game design. Is that not what everyone wants?

I'm struggling to recall in which game he was portrayed with fur like that, besides the werehog.

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