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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)

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4 hours ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

It just boggles the mind when the writing was on the wall about how bad the design was from silhouette alone, yet the producers and filmmakers didn't care until the last minute.

How so? Movies in general, and Paramount themselves have been down the road before. They have taken cherished IPs, changed them to the point of a vocal backlash from fans and onlookers and have found success waiting out the most vocal of the group and cashing in on the apathy to follow. If anything, its more surprising that they chose to relent at all, considering the handful of movies that came before this that proved to be financial successes in spite of spitting in the faces of the original designs to the dismay of many.

TMNT is the perfect example. NOBODY thought those turtles look good, and they were the butt of many jokes - but after the fervor died down a bit, they released the first movie and made bank. I'm sure that's what they were banking on with Sonic too, after it became clear that the model wasn't as appealing as they wanted it to be.

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52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

TMNT is the perfect example. NOBODY thought those turtles look good, and they were the butt of many jokes - but after the fervor died down a bit, they released the first movie and made bank.

Yeah, they made bank...with the first film. The sequel was pretty much a box office bomb. So in the long run, it doesn't seem to have worked out for them (now obviously the horrible designs weren't the only reason for that, but I doubt it actually helped the movie). And since obviously they're planning sequels for this Sawnik movie too, I wonder how that'll turn out for them once people use up their pity/nostalgia/curiosity tokens on this first movie.

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6 hours ago, DreamSaturn said:

The problem with that is it wasn't just some vocal minority making fun of it, from the moment the first poster dropped, everybody hated it.

The fact that the writer had to condescendingly tell people to calm down is indicative of a much larger issue.

From the perspective of the film studio how is that early hate any different from all the other times some aspect of a film gets similar crap thrown at it. Sometimes fans are right and sometimes they're wrong but any course correction is going to come late because that early hate can always be written off as people not seeing a more complete version yet.

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3 minutes ago, Rabid-Coot said:

From the perspective of the film studio how is that early hate any different from all the other times some aspect of a film gets similar crap thrown at it. Sometimes fans are right and sometimes they're wrong but any course correction is going to come late because that early hate can always be written off as people not seeing a more complete version yet.

To quote our very own @Badnik Mechanic

Quote

Hiya.

People who have spoken out against or said the movie Sonic design isn't very good

Yuji Naka - Co-Creator of Sonic. (multiple tweets)

Naoto Oshima - Co-Creator of Sonic (multiple tweets)

Shiro Maekawa - Sonic Adventure & Supervisor of Sonic X Scripts (Multiple tweets)

Gurihiru-san - Character designer & illustrator for Sonic Unleashed (tweet)

Nakamura_Shun - Producer at Sonic Team/Sega of Japan (Tweet)

Hirokazu Yasuhara - Sonic 1 level designer, also done work for Naughty Dog (tweet)

Jun'ichi Kanemaru - Sonic's voice actor in Japan, 1998 - Present day. (Tweet)

Kate Burning - Former Sega of America Community Team (tweet)

Former Sega Community Manager --- Based on the tweets they have been 'liking'

EB Games Australia - Major Video game Retailer for Australia (tweet)

Multiple videogame publications including GameXplain & Polygon

People who have spoken out in favor of the design.

Ken Penders - Attention seeker

3 fans. <--- I couldn't find anymore who didn't have some problem with it.

 

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9 hours ago, Meta77 said:

But why was it a bad idea. If they gave sonic a more unison eye would it have been better. Cause honestly has anyone actually looked at a real hedgehog. Movie or past movie verse sonic looked like one. Regardless of whatever he ends up looking like be it glooves, pants, durag, etc if the story does not hold up I am doubtful we will see anything else sonic wise in the form of a movie for a long time. Im looking at you mario movie.  BUT then again as I have said in the past. D.pikas story was bad and boring yet fans ate up the :look: rather than anything dealing with the story and praised it. Well besides metacritic. last i looked it had a 54

Don’t prejudge us.  I for one enjoyed the movie’s comedy and action even if the story was alternately predictable and forced via dues ex machines.  Yes; it helps that for them, “realism” just meant giving Pokemon detailed textures instead of making them look human, and that there were a lot of them, but those things just make it an unabashed Pokemon movie; good has to come from elsewhere.  The bottom line for me is that I laughed at jokes in DP’s trailers the first they debuted, and had I not, no amount of Pokemon looking accurate would have made me like it.   Meanwhile, though I deduced early on that this film took a minimal approach to Sonic, I would be willing to give it a pass if I laughed.  I didn’t laugh at anything in the trailer.

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2 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Yeah, they made bank...with the first film. The sequel was pretty much a box office bomb. So in the long run, it doesn't seem to have worked out for them (now obviously the horrible designs weren't the only reason for that, but I doubt it actually helped the movie). And since obviously they're planning sequels for this Sawnik movie too, I wonder how that'll turn out for them once people use up their pity/nostalgia/curiosity tokens on this first movie.

That's interesting, because the sequel (Out of the Shadows) actually backtracked from the first film and tried to appeal to fans more nostalgically.

They turned the Foot Clan back into a group of ninjas instead of a generic gang. They introduced fan recognizable characters like Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady. I personally thought it was more faithful than the first, and in terms of quality it was probably on par with TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze (and better than TMNT 3).

But I guess by then, the damage from the first movie was done and fans had lost faith?

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17 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

That's interesting, because the sequel (Out of the Shadows) actually backtracked from the first film and tried to appeal to fans more nostalgically.

They turned the Foot Clan back into a group of ninjas instead of a generic gang. They introduced fan recognizable characters like Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady. I personally thought it was more faithful than the first, and in terms of quality it was probably on par with TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze (and better than TMNT 3).

But I guess by then, the damage from the first movie was done and fans had lost faith?

Dunno, maybe. Apparently the "bringing in the casual audience" tactic didn't work out anyway for TMNT.

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3 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Don’t prejudge us.  I for one enjoyed the movie’s comedy and action even if the story was alternately predictable and forced via dues ex machines.  Yes; it helps that for them, “realism” just meant giving Pokemon detailed textures instead of making them look human, and that there were a lot of them, but those things just make it an unabashed Pokemon movie; good has to come from elsewhere.  The bottom line for me is that I laughed at jokes in DP’s trailers the first they debuted, and had I not, no amount of Pokemon looking accurate would have made me like it.   Meanwhile, though I deduced early on that this film took a minimal approach to Sonic, I would be willing to give it a pass if I laughed.  I didn’t laugh at anything in the trailer.

They H. I am not prejuding anyone but stating a fact. Ive seen people throw D.pika a 10 on metacritic simply for the fact the pokemon looked real. A review literally reads "the story was medicore at best.....but the pokemon look great!! 10 for me". And from that if people simply want one of the other. either look good and have a horrible story, or look horrible and have an amazing story. Which well get with the sonic movie who knows. I do know if this flops we probably wont see any more attemps at sonic movies. But then again I still think the moive will be a success. People went hard on Teen Titans Go. Yet that show has lasted way longer than I think anyone figured and thats cause with it and im sure with this movie kids will be the ones to carry it most likely

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5 hours ago, Rabid-Coot said:

Yeah I was here for all of that none of it is particularly unusual for hollywood to have ignored.

Well, it wasn't just some vocal minority, it was literally everyone. When the people who own the fucking character you're making the movie about, the fans, and non-fans are telling you "this looks bad", maybe it's not a smart move to just assume they're wrong?

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1 hour ago, DreamSaturn said:

Well, it wasn't just some vocal minority, it was literally everyone. When the people who own the fucking character you're making the movie about, the fans, and non-fans are telling you "this looks bad", maybe it's not a smart move to just assume they're wrong?

Of course. I'm just saying that outside of the creators (that are ignored far too often in adaptations) the early reactions will have been percieved as the standard backlash that is so common and routinely ignored because you don't drop everything at the first sign of outrage.

Also wasn't there some tangible positivity in the mix from test screening reactions because that would definitly be the thing that encouraged them to keep going with the mess.

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20 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Yeah, they made bank...with the first film. The sequel was pretty much a box office bomb. So in the long run, it doesn't seem to have worked out for them (now obviously the horrible designs weren't the only reason for that, but I doubt it actually helped the movie). And since obviously they're planning sequels for this Sawnik movie too, I wonder how that'll turn out for them once people use up their pity/nostalgia/curiosity tokens on this first movie.

 

17 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

That's interesting, because the sequel (Out of the Shadows) actually backtracked from the first film and tried to appeal to fans more nostalgically.

They turned the Foot Clan back into a group of ninjas instead of a generic gang. They introduced fan recognizable characters like Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady. I personally thought it was more faithful than the first, and in terms of quality it was probably on par with TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze (and better than TMNT 3).

But I guess by then, the damage from the first movie was done and fans had lost faith?

It still pains me that the second Paramount TMNT movie is the one that flopped.  It's only fair to mention that Mirage purists who hate the Fred Wolf cartoon might not make up the bulk of the TMNT fandom, but they are a vocal minority, since the second movie borrows liberally from the Fred Wolf cartoon and not much from Mirage.  Of course, the first Paramount TMNT movie didn't have much from Mirage either, so there probably wasn't much love lost from one film to the next.

14 hours ago, Meta77 said:

They H. I am not prejuding anyone but stating a fact. Ive seen people throw D.pika a 10 on metacritic simply for the fact the pokemon looked real. A review literally reads "the story was medicore at best.....but the pokemon look great!! 10 for me". And from that if people simply want one of the other. either look good and have a horrible story, or look horrible and have an amazing story. Which well get with the sonic movie who knows. I do know if this flops we probably wont see any more attemps at sonic movies. But then again I still think the moive will be a success. People went hard on Teen Titans Go. Yet that show has lasted way longer than I think anyone figured and thats cause with it and im sure with this movie kids will be the ones to carry it most likely

It's really too late for this movie to have the sort of eye-candy fan-service that Detective Pikachu did.  Even if they make Sonic's design great, and alter the design of the badniks, the plot simply isn't such that it can take a lot of visual cues from the games.  Of course, having a bunch of Pokemon in a Pokemon film is probably more important than having a bunch of game characters in a Sonic game; the huge amount of monsters is what sells the brand.  Same with Transformers; it's based on toys so a Transformers adaptation has to have more robots than just Optimus Prime and Megatron.  But while Sonic's appeal isn't necessarily dependent on multiple characters, including more things from the games would be a good way to show they actually care about the fans.

Because as I said before, there really isn't anyone else to target.  There are children who aren't fans yet, but a lot of the things the present fanbase likes would appeal to them too, so I lump the two together.  Meanwhile, even if this film somehow does well with critics, that isn't going to translate into a lot of adults who don't care about Sonic going to see it.

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On 5/28/2019 at 10:48 PM, Tarnish said:

Now he just looks like a talking stuffed plush toy if I'm perfectly honest. 

Yeah, I agree he looks quite off, but the author still did a great job on this. That won't change. I find his Movie Design charming, and I hope they will keep the major points (separate eyes, realistic fur, and allows him to take his gloves off) and the moving ears.

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17 hours ago, DreamSaturn said:

Well, it wasn't just some vocal minority, it was literally everyone. When the people who own the fucking character you're making the movie about, the fans, and non-fans are telling you "this looks bad", maybe it's not a smart move to just assume they're wrong?

This, I think a lot of people underestimate the overall global reaction to the trailer because it wasn't just the ''Sonic fans''
SPEAKING of TMNT,  Out of the shadows did try to be more loyal to its franchise but I do believe that movie failed because it failed to be a well working movie regardless,
I mean Shredder meets Krang (or were they supposed to know one another already ?) and Shredder isn't even at all moved by seeing this alien, nor is Krang's introduction all that well put. and Crasey Jones the rebellious vigitantie ? is now a...cop? he doesn't even look the part might as well have been a new Cop character.

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16 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

This, I think a lot of people underestimate the overall global reaction to the trailer because it wasn't just the ''Sonic fans''
SPEAKING of TMNT,  Out of the shadows did try to be more loyal to its franchise but I do believe that movie failed because it failed to be a well working movie regardless,
I mean Shredder meets Krang (or were they supposed to know one another already ?) and Shredder isn't even at all moved by seeing this alien, nor is Krang's introduction all that well put. and Crasey Jones the rebellious vigitantie ? is now a...cop? he doesn't even look the part might as well have been a new Cop character.

At least Paramount Casey looked and acted like we wanted when he put on his hockey mask.  Paramount Robotnik...we'll see.

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On 5/30/2019 at 1:07 AM, Rabid-Coot said:

Also wasn't there some tangible positivity in the mix from test screening reactions because that would definitly be the thing that encouraged them to keep going with the mess.

Yes, I have seen some tweets and post on Reddit and 7/10 cases were positive. The plot was charming, a fun mix of action, humor, and adventure with some character's growth. New kids will meet Sonic and get to know him, older fans will remember the first game and get a glimpse of what could lead to Sonic and Eggman's constant fights with tons of easter eggs. You can find some in the trailer. I also found one 🙂 But it may be just a coincidence 😉

Unless the comic showing the origins of Sonic being brown, getting faster, and Eggman being Kintobor, think, kind is like official. I think it is, as it was done by Sega (UK Sonic used it too), but in all honesty, no game ever addressed this issue, not to mention Sonic's homeplace changed from one game to another. We have never gotten to know his family as mentioned in some old manual to the first game(s).

So, in a sense, Paramount uses this idea too. Robotnik used to be thin and Sonic was learning to go faster and faster.

Paramount had "solid" data their movie and Sonic design can work. While in some scenes he wasn't added yet, they had some working model. My guess is it was the first one to appear (sock-less).

I hope this helps 😉

 

 

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For the record, Out of the Shadows failed because it didn’t use nostalgia well. It tried to just throw it on to nostalgia pander, but everything else was just as bad, if not worse than the original. Probably worse actually, I don’t remember any parts of the original that got to the desperate point of sexualising Megan Fox by putting her into a stupid schoolgirl outfit, and the original movie literally had a running gag of Verne oversexualising her while she tried to be serious.

Out of the Shadows has no real charming moments. The characters are all pretty awful, and the elements they try to draw from the comics, or shows are just warped into being bad, especially when you’ve got shit like Bebop and Rocksteady taking a look and (implied) to have bigger dicks after being turned into mutants, why would anyone think that should be a joke in a Ninja Turtles project? 

The nostalgia is there just to sell tickets, and it’s badly done because of it. They also add Casey Jones to the movie, except he isn’t really Casey because his entire personality, job, and motivation has just been completely rewritten to a bland motivation. That’s not even getting to the awful original characters like the dumb police chief either.

Out of the Shadows failed for a hell of a lot more reasons than just the nostalgia.

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1 minute ago, DreamSaturn said:

Because it's not an issue. Eggman is evil, Sonic is just a guy that loves adventure and hates injustice. Simple, and that's all it needs to be.

Well, if they could tell a compelling origin story, I wouldn't be against it. Problem is, I can't even imagine an origin story I would like. So yeah, an origin story is the least of this franchise's problem at the moment.

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2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

For the record, Out of the Shadows failed because it didn’t use nostalgia well. It tried to just throw it on to nostalgia pander, but everything else was just as bad, if not worse than the original. Probably worse actually, I don’t remember any parts of the original that got to the desperate point of sexualising Megan Fox by putting her into a stupid schoolgirl outfit, and the original movie literally had a running gag of Verne oversexualising her while she tried to be serious.

Out of the Shadows has no real charming moments. The characters are all pretty awful, and the elements they try to draw from the comics, or shows are just warped into being bad, especially when you’ve got shit like Bebop and Rocksteady taking a look and (implied) to have bigger dicks after being turned into mutants, why would anyone think that should be a joke in a Ninja Turtles project? 

The nostalgia is there just to sell tickets, and it’s badly done because of it. They also add Casey Jones to the movie, except he isn’t really Casey because his entire personality, job, and motivation has just been completely rewritten to a bland motivation. That’s not even getting to the awful original characters like the dumb police chief either.

Out of the Shadows failed for a hell of a lot more reasons than just the nostalgia.

I for one liked it.  I didn't request a dick joke but I did laugh at it.  I may sour on this movie if they ever do a better fanservice movie in the future, but until then I'm going to enjoy it for what it is.

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1 minute ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I for one liked it.  I didn't request a dick joke but I did laugh at it.  I may sour on this movie if they ever do a better fanservice movie in the future, but until then I'm going to enjoy it for what it is.

I mean, again - if you enjoyed it, no problem with it. Me personally, I was nose-deep in a time where I loved TMNT after being out of the series for years, and had been reading the IDW comics, as well as the 2012 show, so to say I was majorly disappointed in it would be an understatement, personally.

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2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I mean, again - if you enjoyed it, no problem with it. Me personally, I was nose-deep in a time where I loved TMNT after being out of the series for years, and had been reading the IDW comics, as well as the 2012 show, so to say I was majorly disappointed in it would be an understatement, personally.

Well sure. Part of me has read the new comics' take on Rocksteady and Bebop, and instantly fell in love. The movie's take was insulting in comparison.

And yet, a child's voice inside me was gleefully screaming, "THIS IS THE FIRST TIME ROCKSTEADY AND BEBOP HAVE BEEN IN A TMNT MOVIE! WHOO! SUCK ON THAT, TOKKA AND RAHZAR!"

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On 5/29/2019 at 2:46 AM, BaronGrackle said:

That's interesting, because the sequel (Out of the Shadows) actually backtracked from the first film and tried to appeal to fans more nostalgically.

They turned the Foot Clan back into a group of ninjas instead of a generic gang. They introduced fan recognizable characters like Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady. I personally thought it was more faithful than the first, and in terms of quality it was probably on par with TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze (and better than TMNT 3).

But I guess by then, the damage from the first movie was done and fans had lost faith?

The Turtles were still Teenage Mutant Wrestler Turtles and not Ninjas, and Vernon was still in it. I think that’s what went awry.

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