Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)

[DarkLight]

I blame Sonic X and 06' for souring people on the idea we can human, nay, well-written human characters. Yes, Prof. Pickle was awesome and he served his role in Unleashed well, but let's face it, he's a minor blip on people's radar whereas the likes of Chris and Elise have been more infamous examples on how human characters can be intrusive and poorly done. Not to mention that both were actually major characters in their respective stories and not minor like Pickle was.

It's a shame too since I don't mind having humans and anthros co-existing in the same setting. Though given with Hollywood and the likes of Transformers, I fear we might be just getting X all over again and make them have more prominence than the actual characters we came to see. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Agreed. Heck even beforehand, Adventure 1 had quite a few memorable human npcs, not to mention how well the writers used them to set the tone during certain events/time-slots of the story.

[Shadowlax]

25 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Please tell me you're taking the piss.

At what point did it somehow become unacceptable for human characters to show up at all, let alone memorable ones?

I made you read this in Professor Pickle's voice. You're welcome.

 

I wasn't particularly fond of him or his design and felt like that dude could have easily been Incorporated into a much more interesting looking animal design, dude is like half way to being a schnauzer anyway. 

I feel like humans being a large part of the sonic world has always been out of place and feel like sonic boom amongst its many failings finally did the good thing of just making an animal word. Everyone feels thematically consistent, and I feel like this thematic consistency could have helped in some of the less well received parts of the sonic games. If gun or princess elise were a bunch of animals, not only does it make them not trusting robotnik, both of them, make a fuck ton more sense, it kind of thematically reduces the edgyness of SHth, he goes from beating human soilders and aliens, to beating up animal solders and aliens, and if you were to just remove or change the guns the earth forces has to something less... realistic because you are dealing with all animals, that game just becomes a weird ratchet and clank thing. That I feel probably would be more thematically fitting, than aimal shooting actual humans with a realistic looking rife whilst saying damn. And elise... speaks for itself. 

I have never felt humans jived in sonic.. ever they are visually uninteresting next to sonic and co, and it just doesn't make sense. Not just from like a visual perspective just money , hasbro will tell you that for free. And they are just boring all the time, just nothing. Maybe sega of japan feels as though sonic needs to connect to people and be cool so he hangs out with them? I have never found that cool I don't wanna hang out with sonic, I have no desire to, even when I was 10. 

 

Human and sonic has never mixed well for me ever ,sonic should live in animal world with animal people. And the only humans who exist have the last name robotnik , and that's the lore. CGI animate that shit up and ship it out. I have no interest in IRL Chris throndyke 

16 minutes ago, DarkLight said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, IniMeenieMiney-Jo-Vahexeon said:

Agreed. Heck even beforehand, Adventure 1 had quite a few memorable human npcs, not to mention how well the writers used them to set the tone during certain events/time-slots of the story.

There are no memorable humans in the adventure era games , visually or story wise. Besides 4,

Maria and Gerald robotnik , one because shadow, and two because shadow and he looks like eggman

The president , and the head of gun, because like arin, you wondered why the fuck did he have a picture of shadow and sonic on his desk. And the gun head because the comic books still use him you are forced two. And Else... for.... reasons.

everyone else, is literally nothing. No one remembers these "characters." 

 

Oh look two of those have the last name robotnik, and the ones that don't have that last name don't need to be used, because they don't have a solid connection to a popular character. Its almost as if you don't need any of them, besides those two, and their dead. And they are dead! And they are the best ones. 

[DarkLight]

I don't get this logic at all. Robotnik/Eggman is the only character who is allowed to be human simply because he's the series's main villain and have to reinforce that tired "humans = bad, animals = good" cliche? By that logic, I guess Nack can't be a bad guy had he not been a forgotten character. 

Again, I don't think humans existing by default isn't nor should be the problem here. What matters is how they're written and how they serve their role. Minor, that's fine, but major like the main cast, then we might have an issue.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

There are no memorable humans in the adventure era games , visually or story wise. Besides 4,

 

everyone else, is literally nothing. No one remembers these characters. 

That's an awful big stretch and leap of logic to suggest that none of the npcs from Adventure 1 are remembered.

While not to the potency of say, Majora's Mask, I think you may be shocked to find that the npcs of Adventure 1 actually do garner quite a reminiscence and discussion here and there.

A small example:

I'm sorry, but it honestly seems like you're pulling a strawman over something you just strictly don't like.

[Kfarc]

I don't care if humans are incorporated or not. But if you they will be, change them. Them or Sonic. Look at '06. Real-looking human characters don't work with cartoon anthropomorfic animals. I can take seriously cartoony humans and animals any day. I can take a redesigned real-looking Sonic working alongside real humans any day. The mixture... Not if you're trying to make a serious story, and I hope that they want to tell a little more serious story than what we were getting since 2010 (for a record, I like post-2010 game's stories for what they are).

[Shadowlax]

22 minutes ago, DarkLight said:

I don't get this logic at all. Robotnik/Eggman is the only character who is allowed to be human simply because he's the series's main villain and have to reinforce that tired "humans = bad, animals = good" cliche? By that logic, I guess Nack can't be a bad guy had he not been a forgotten character. 

Again, I don't think humans existing by default isn't nor should be the problem here. What matters is how they're written and how they serve their role. Minor, that's fine, but major like the main cast, then we might have an issue.

He's the only one allowed to be around because he's one of the most iconic and memorable video game characters in all of existence. And the OG. And I never said animals can't be bad guys, My favorite character is shadow the hedgehog. Even though he's more a anti hero, heck just a hero nowadays. He's still an asshole. And in reference to the comics, I like two deer folks of the new eggbosses, liked mammoth mogul too. I like bad guy animals, I infact want more bad guy animals. I would like them so much I would not mind like sonic boom eggman just became more of a joke villian and there were just main animal themed bad guys. I think sonic boom's focus on animals is great actually, good or bad. 

I'll say this, if they actually commuted to thing they , and by they I mean Iizuka and co has actually said is their idea of sonic with humans, which was, there two worlds, and you can go between them. Fine. That idea in concept is interesting and you can tell a lot of interesting stories, some of which with actual human lessons to be learned with this set up. But they never commit, ever. It always seems like less two worlds, and more humans and sonic characters just... live together. Which is weird and thematically inconsistent... for a multitude of reasons, that " its a cartoon " doesn't fix. And even with me being ok with the two worlds Idea, they could mess it up like sonic x by making it about boring people. 

But that said my faith being gone isn't because sega messed up before, sega messes up all the time I'm still here. Although my patience in sonic in general is begiing to wear thin. My lack of faith resides in the fact that this is a movie,and a movie especially one desiring to appeal to wide audiences, successful or no, has forumla's that studio's wish to follow. And most of the time, with this type of thing, end... very very poorly. 

I'm expecting alvan and the chipmunks, but i' praying to god for transformers

That's like expecting a shot to the chest, but hoping for stab. That's not a good look fam. At least the stab wounds come with pretty good action scenes with sometimes pretty good  character battles. But you still got stabbed

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

14 minutes ago, Kfarc said:

I can take a redesigned real-looking Sonic working alongside real humans any day.

I understand your point, and it makes sense, but in my opinion this would be one of the absolute worst things that could feasibly happen in the movie, lol. Realistic-ifying an extremely cartoony, hyper-unrealistic character like Sonic is misguided endeavor doomed to failure, if you ask me. He has such a delightful, simple, unique design that I love, and I just can't see it working well at all translated to realism. If even the very slight changes in Sonic '06 or even to a small extent Brawl weren't all that nice to look at; something more than that would be a disaster IMO. It's because of the possibility of something like this, or other awful live-action + CGI-cartoon cliches, that it's kind of hard for me and many others to really look forward to this movie.

Oh, and there's this too

no thanks

[DarkLight]

Darn it MDS, you had to go and remind me of that thing.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 hour ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

 

no thanks

Why did you have to bring that...that thing back up.

[Kfarc]

1 hour ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I understand your point, and it makes sense, but in my opinion this would be one of the absolute worst things that could feasibly happen in the movie, lol. Realistic-ifying an extremely cartoony, hyper-unrealistic character like Sonic is misguided endeavor doomed to failure, if you ask me. He has such a delightful, simple, unique design that I love, and I just can't see it working well at all translated to realism. If even the very slight changes in Sonic '06 or even to a small extent Brawl weren't all that nice to look at; something more than that would be a disaster IMO. It's because of the possibility of something like this, or other awful live-action + CGI-cartoon cliches, that it's kind of hard for me and many others to really look forward to this movie.

Oh, and there's this too

no thanks

Well... good point... I have to give you that. My statment here is influanced by the fact, that I'm adored by the trend of "making classics realistic" that was prominent at the beggining of 7th console generation. Just by a concept, not execution. But thats me being wierdo.

Also, let me make my argument "Cartoony Sonic/cartoony humans" stronger: Kingdom Hearts. Humans looking like from anime are interacting with Disney characters. Yeah, it looks wierd, but not because of human/cartoons aspect, but because of east/west aspect. But it works. 

[Guest]

This "Sonic should/shouldn't be redesigned to be more realistic for this movie" talk makes me wonder: has there ever been a modern cartoon redesign for a big budget Hollywood movie that was actually good? It seems like either they stick to the original designs (see Peanuts) or try to redesign the characters and end up with horrifying looking creatures that look far worse than the original designs (see The Smurfs, Yogi Bear, Alvin and the Chipmunks etc.)

Movies based on already existing cartoon characters being good really seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I can think of far more bad ones than good ones anyway.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Yeah, I actually agree with you that cartoony anthros + cartoony humans works just fine. It's only Sonic being made realistic I object to.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Kfarc]

59 minutes ago, TimmiT said:

This "Sonic should/shouldn't be redesigned to be more realistic for this movie" talk makes me wonder: has there ever been a modern cartoon redesign for a big budget Hollywood movie that was actually good? It seems like either they stick to the original designs (see Peanuts) or try to redesign the characters and end up with horrifying looking creatures that look far worse than the original designs (see The Smurfs, Yogi Bear, Alvin and the Chipmunks etc.)

Well, when I was thinking about "realistc-looking" I was thinking more about this... Yeah, still wierd, but I want a game with this design so badly  .

[Shadowlax]

3 hours ago, IniMeenieMiney-Jo-Vahexeon said:

That's an awful big stretch and leap of logic to suggest that none of the npcs from Adventure 1 are remembered.

While not to the potency of say, Majora's Mask, I think you may be shocked to find that the npcs of Adventure 1 actually do garner quite a reminiscence and discussion here and there.

A small example:

I'm sorry, but it honestly seems like you're pulling a strawman over something you just strictly don't like.

Dude, as much as i would like to consider sonic fans indicators of what... The general audiences for sonic may be. And in many cases i believe they are, this aint of then dude.

While my statement is objectively exaggeration the idea that in game whos pivatal characters are anthro animals and popular characters besides 1, its probably largely correct.

 

No one remembers the humans in sonic for the most part. They remember maria because shadow. But outside of very specific cases, most of  are them bad. Associated with shitty gameplay elements or shitty stories, sometimes both. Like a couple people talking about in a series specific form dont mean shit dude.

No one really cares about them. And the few that do note memory, outside of the robotniks and the unleashed guy for not being offensive to the senses are just shit.

The claim is sonic x ruined sonic humans for poeple. You mean a bunch of non memorable npc's and shit characters? Most people who even have above average interest in sonic cant remember all the sonic dudes. In what reality do you think that beyond the robotniks, the one not shit one, and the infamous ones, are these human characters of note. To anyone outside of the most dedicated. And even then.Not this reality.

Also if i can be a grimy business man for a sec, in this market, doesnt make sense.

[Nepenthe]

I would appreciate being told what I don't remember or care about.

1 hour ago, TimmiT said:

This "Sonic should/shouldn't be redesigned to be more realistic for this movie" talk makes me wonder: has there ever been a modern cartoon redesign for a big budget Hollywood movie that was actually good? It seems like either they stick to the original designs (see Peanuts) or try to redesign the characters and end up with horrifying looking creatures that look far worse than the original designs (see The Smurfs, Yogi Bear, Alvin and the Chipmunks etc.)

I actually like the way the Chipmunks look in their films despite said films being varying degrees of garbage, considering they're basically just chipmunks but with more personable faces that work in a CGI environment. Smurfs too I felt were also good looking updates. On top of that, Paddington is still the standard for this genre and looks freaking adorable.

[Shadowlax]

35 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I would appreciate being told what I don't and don't remember or care about.

I actually like the way the Chipmunks look in their films despite said films being varying degrees of garbage, considering they're basically just chipmunks but with more personable faces that work in a CGI environment. Smurfs too I felt were also good looking updates. On top of that, Paddington is still the standard for this genre and looks freaking adorable.

To the top part, congratulations your are inna small minority of people who care about sonic games enough to analyze and remember smaller less important elements for critical analysis. And  while I appreciate you, me, and everyone on sonic specific sites, i dont think our enthusiam is any idication of anything larger than that extreme enthusiasts. And small blip on a larger radar.

If sounded harsh before, sorry. But I very much stand by my point. Kind of no one cares, they are just window dressing. Sometimes really shitty windowdressing.

 

The bottom point, i think the chipmunks work because in the cartoon, their designs...were nondistinct. Thats a nice way of putting it "holy shit now than im an adult they look like humans with horrific skin deformations. And now that i think about it I had to be told they were chipmunks  " might be a bit more accurate. Making them more chimpmunky i feel helps when you are going to render something in this context creating your own might be the way to go. Can I go back to the old cartoon designs for a sec, they were like small child sized. Where in the hell did David find these chimpmunks?

Anyway I think Paddington looks great and needed little reinterpitation. He's been iirc a kid sized bear, so they made hik one.

Sonic, like mickey mouse , while a very cartoonish interpitation of ananimal. In their designs their intent is made clear, thats what they and are intended to be in all cases.

I think the most realistic sonic should get is, ironically enough the shadow the hedgehog models, the cg ones. Have you seen those things much like the rest of the cg stuff in that game, amazing. They dont have the lanky bodies of the 06 models, but they aren't too clean like a lot of the sonic models now. They a bit..more real in their sort of dirtyness seriously those models are great. Scuffs on the shoes, the colors on the model arent too vibrant, but they aren't dull, you can see the quils if you look hard enough are made of smaller ones but mot enough to ruin it, details on the gloves. I wouldnt mind sonic and co looking like that. Humans aside.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

@Shadowlax You seem desperately  insistent that the existing population of folks that negate your assertion that nobody cares of Adventure era human characters and NPCs,  are some supposed "minority". 

Ignoring the fact that you haven't even backed up that claim,  you're not even remembering to explain exactly why and how said NPCs were unmemorable outside of your own personal accounts. 

Ignoring the hidden stories,  backgrounds and mini-events circling some of Adventure 1's NPCs is another bad oversight to make for your case as well. 

[Nepenthe]

21 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

To the top part, congratulations your are inna small minority of people who care about sonic games enough to analyze and remember smaller less important elements for critical analysis. And  while I appreciate you, me, and everyone on sonic specific sites, i dont think our enthusiam is any idication of anything larger than that extreme enthusiasts. And small blip on a larger radar.

I didn't realize that merely playing Unleashed as intended counted as some noteworthy feat of critical analysis. I also didn't realize that appealing to the majority, a majority that honestly doesn't give a damn about Sonic in any capacity, was any real argument for the quality of anything in this franchise.

32 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

If sounded harsh before, sorry. But I very much stand by my point. Kind of no one cares, they are just window dressing. Sometimes really shitty windowdressing.

Repeating your argument doesn't make it more convincing nor even make the rationale clear so that I can at least say "I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree."

[Shadowlax]

52 minutes ago, IniMeenieMiney-Jo-Vahexeon said:

 

Hmm.in going to bow out. You are abosuletly right. I dont have evidence for this. I think its beyond obvious, and the only forum i seen dedicated the people are on enthusiast forums, but that isnt evidence enough. I could go to fan art sites and search numbers for numbers of entries for these characters vs... The main cast i suppouse. Or google itself, but as i mentioned myseld poping up in a forum besides setting the world a blaze is no indication of popularity or lack thereof. Bunches of people make forums to shit on sonic, doesn't mean no one likes sonic right? Heck some just put up a parody video of some dude dressed up like sonic singing about how sonic went down the dreain for the umnteeth time. He aint the fanbase..

What you want is numbers, charts graphs. And i can't provide that, i cannot provide info on something the fans nor sega themelves don't care enough to keep track of. And i think that in itself... Is an indicator. You know there aren't a bunch of "best humans " contests going on. But lack thereof provides me with less of a point. Even though I believe it kind of indicates  my point.

You are correct, i cant definitely prove this. However i think it is obvious enough to be ridiculous.

But i did do something wrong, i called you no-one, sorry. Thats mean, to be called no one. Sorry.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

@Shadowlax

If it really was "so obvious" as you put it,  then as a "fact" you should plenty of resources to easily legitimize it,  unless it's really just a  biting-off-more-than-you-could-chew case where ultimately it really was just a poorly thought out and rude claim to make your opinion appear strictly factual and authoritative.

On that matter,  you still haven't elucidated, strengthened or even bothered yet to explain the rationale behind the notion, that you apparently heralded,  of Adventure era NPC being mostly worthless and forgotten. 

 Aught to just agree to disagree instead of making a bold claim and statement that an unnotable amount of people care for the NPCs  in Sonic Adventure, rudely acting as of it's God-given fact. 

 

[FriendBot]

Well I kinda really didn't care for the Adventure 1 NPCs, they weren't that memorable to me but I guess that's because I didn't took the time to interact with them. When I interacted with the Unleashed NPCs, I just loved them. All of them were pretty likable in their own way, all with their own hopes and dreams (ha! undertale references!), it also helps that not one NPC looks the same so it helps gives each NPC an identity.

soooo yeah, Unleashed NPCs are better than Adventure 1 NPCs....

[Shadowlax]

20 minutes ago, sansy said:

 

 

24 minutes ago, IniMeenieMiney-Jo-Vahexeon said:

@Shadowlax

If it really was "so obvious" as you put it,  then as a "fact" you should plenty of resources to easily legitimize it,  unless it's really just a  biting-off-more-than-you-could-chew case where ultimately it really was just a poorly thought out and rude claim to make your opinion appear strictly factual and authoritative.

On that matter,  you still haven't elucidated, strengthened or even bothered yet to explain the rationale behind the notion, that you apparently heralded,  of Adventure era NPC being mostly worthless and forgotten. 

 Aught to just agree to disagree instead of making a bold claim and statement that an unnotable amount of people care for the NPCs  in Sonic Adventure, rudely acting as of it's God-given fact. 

 

I dont think its that npcs who designs sorta of blend together in game whos memerable moments for most folks invovle, the sonic characters being playble in 3d, being things people didnt really care to remember is bold.

And that is what im doing im agreeing to disagree, I have chosen to argue something so unotable, i cant actually provide evidence. outside of lack there being any. My  arguement is that no one cares. There isnt a lot of stuff on humans sonic, even on enthusiast forums, i belive this is because no one cares. But you want official character polls for these people,  and dev statements. These dont exist, i believe this to be bevause not many even dev side cares. But there are no official statements. I have chosen to argue something that might be truly insignificant. Sorry , i have wasted our time.

[Nepenthe]

The problem with the issue is conflating memorability with quality as if they're the same thing or directly correlated. Humans are bombarded with so much information everyday that it's physically impossible to be able to recall the majority of it in any given time. I'm pretty sure we've all watched, read, played, and otherwise experienced things that were indeed good but didn't stick in our subconscious long enough to be a constant memory in lieu of newer, more relevant experiences in our lives. So arguing that humans in Sonic are bad because they're not memorable isn't really a conclusion that follows from the argument presented. There's a shitload of things in Sonic- human characters, animal characters, stages, songs, lines of dialogue, and entire games- that aren't memorable but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't good as a result. After all, what about stuff that's memorable that's shit? People haven't been able to stop talking about Sonic 06 for nearly a decade. Doesn't mean it's the best Sonic game.

[Haalyle]

5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

To the top part, congratulations your are inna small minority of people who care about sonic games enough to analyze and remember smaller less important elements for critical analysis.

So, you alone are the majority? Because, I honestly have to agree with the others here. Could you give some statics mate, because I really can't believe that point of the argument?

Me, I don't like a realistic Sonic, but the other options do well.

I don't have a preference on human NPCs in the Sonic games. In my view, I actually preferred the ones in Adventure than Unleashed because they felt more relatable.