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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)


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47 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Nah

He's probably in there and there is and there is a probably a bunch of dumb jokes about him brutally beating human sized people, and him being intimidating for the size he is. 

I'm going to call this cleche , right now. They are going to sell some toy ass toys. 

nick-young-confused-face.jpg

What kind of movie do you think this is going to be? We're not making American History X here, Shadow's not curbstomping people, and probably still not in the movie.

ᵃᶫˢᵒ, ᵈᵒ ʸᵒᵘ ᶰᵒᵗ ᵏᶰᵒʷ ʰᵒʷ ᵗᵒ ˢᵖᵉᶫᶫ "ᶜᶫᶦᶜʰᵉ"﹖

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1 hour ago, Inspector Shaddy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Inspector Shaddy said:

 

What kind of movie do you think this is going to be? We're not making American History X here, Shadow's not curbstomping people, and probably still not in the movie.

ᵃᶫˢᵒ, ᵈᵒ ʸᵒᵘ ᶰᵒᵗ ᵏᶰᵒʷ ʰᵒʷ ᵗᵒ ˢᵖᵉᶫᶫ "ᶜᶫᶦᶜʰᵉ"﹖

I know this sonic, and sonic is cool and extreme, and sega works in extremes. But how in the hell did you get to curb stoming and shooting people, from shadowing beating people up? Were is the logic leap you made here, he would just beat some peole up like where did you even get that from. This small guy beating up the big guy trope is one of the longest running common tropes in all of cinematography , done in shit like mickey mousse cartoons, and you think i'm talking about deadpool?

What? Like actually what?Shadow being 3 foot 3 beating up an army of goons with his attitude to would visually funny. A type of gag we don't get in the games or the books because everyone takes sonic seriously in those things,or are also animals but when its live actual its going to be super hard for humans who never seen shadow before to take him seriously. That's literally all that was said. Explain to me how you even got to thought process you did, explain. Because nothing I said indicated anything more than cartoon violence. 

Along with that I really bet he is, I think are going to hard into paint and bring out their regulars. And as much as shadow might be distasteful to some, dude is on that regular list for a reason. Dude sells merchandise, and this film is going to be anything , its going be  a glorified toy commercial . 

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Well, the word "brutal" isn't normally applied for starters, but that's hardly the point. The overall point is that it's unlikely Shadow's showing up in the first movie for several reasons. Van Robichaux is far from a godly writer, but he knows the material he's working with, and considering the material he's basing the film from is apparently the classic games, which also happen to be the most recognized by the general public and therefore bringing in the most cash, basing it off Adventure just because ya say so is probably not the direction they're taking with the film.

 

Plus, at least within the laws of the fanbase, the more a given person sees of Shadow, the less they grow to like him, and this guy seems to have a shitload of Sonic experience under his belt. Not saying he couldn't be a unique case, but it's a recurring thing I'm noticing.

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Just now, Inspector Shaddy said:

Well, the word "brutal" isn't normally applied for starters, but that's hardly the point. The overall point is that it's unlikely Shadow's showing up in the first movie for several reasons. Van Robichaux is far from a godly writer, but he knows the material he's working with, and considering the material he's basing the film from is apparently the classic games, which also happen to be the most recognized by the general public and therefore bringing in the most cash, basing it off Adventure just because ya say so is probably not the direction they're taking with the film.

I think its going to be more varied than that, also * points feverishly towards batman v superman * you can write whatever you want but that goes through several people good or bad. I think it will be more varied in its representation that you would originality believe.

But we'll see. 

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Well here's the thing: Shadow has a big backstory. Nobody else does. Sonic is a hero. Tails was bullied and is an orphan and has two tails. Eggman is an asshole. Knuckles lives on a big rock, protects a big rock, and has as many ancestors living as a big rock.

Shadow is an artificially-created half-alien hybrid built to utilize chaos energy and act as a protector/destroyer of mankind, who witnessed the murder of his adoptive sister and was jettisoned to the planet for fifty years to hibernate until being discovered by his creator's grandson, wherein his damaged memory causes him to take vengeance on Maria's death before he eventually dies a second time before being rediscovered with amnesia only to destroy the aliens responsible for his creation.

Do you see what I'm saying here?

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20 minutes ago, Inspector Shaddy said:

 

 

1 minute ago, Inspector Shaddy said:

Well here's the thing: Shadow has a big backstory. Nobody else does. Sonic is a hero. Tails was bullied and is an orphan and has two tails. Eggman is an asshole. Knuckles lives on a big rock, protects a big rock, and has as many ancestors living as a big rock.

Shadow is an artificially-created half-alien hybrid built to utilize chaos energy and act as a protector/destroyer of mankind, who witnessed the murder of his adoptive sister and was jettisoned to the planet for fifty years to hibernate until being discovered by his creator's grandson, wherein his damaged memory causes him to take vengeance on Maria's death before he eventually dies a second time before being rediscovered with amnesia only to destroy the aliens responsible for his creation.

Do you see what I'm saying here?

Ok, I say this is a shadow fan. As long as you don't mishandle the character, only can you just kind of ... skip that. You could hypothetically just create another backstory for the guy. Maybe in a later film flash back to it , but I don't think its needed at all. Just handle the character well, you can slightly address it later, or if you want to give him a new back story... give him a new back story. 

I like shadow, I like sonic adventure 2, but changing shadow's motivation from that, i'm totally ok with. 

However, while I argue with you, on some level I am finding myself agreeing with you, not because I think sa2 needs to be told on screen. But I find myself remembering what happened the last time sega divorced someone from their backstory, it was knuckles. I'm not fond of knuckles now. So while I don't agree that all that explanation is even needed. I find myself acknowledging that sega or a lot of film makers tbh have the nuance to not completely flanderize a character at that point. 

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I do have to say, Shadow's past doesn't matter to his recurring usage in media considering he himself gave up having his entire life dictated by it nearly 11 years ago. Not that he's going to be used in this movie, but there's no consequences to throwing him into a fray without tacking on the ARK.

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Except excluding 06, Shadow hasn't exactly had any reason for making anything happen since his own game, or he just flat-out hasn't been around since then. And it's not like people actually like that at all anyway.

Besides, leaving Shadow's past out either means you might as well not use him, or it means this movie is happening after whatever current Sonic game is out at the time, which is the opposite of what a movie should do, being something accessible to newcomers. In which case, no, don't do that.

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Shadow's involvement in any plot at this point is basically the same as every other character's: "I don't feel like being ruled by Eggman or dying from some apocalyptic scenario." Regardless, any character having a basis for being in a game doesn't mean they're automatically to be written interestingly within the individual plot points of an overall narrative or given any development or revelations, which is the real problem with the cast right now. Sonic Team has always had a reason for using any character they want through Eggman's ambitions; the issue is reconciling utilization of an extended cast in an era where they're trying to appeal to people who never want to see them again.

Also, I don't feel any Sonic movie should be relying on adapting a whole lot from the games anyway, because to me it's a waste of a rare opportunity on something that can be looked up on YouTube or Wikipedia, as this could be the only theatrical Sonic film we ever get. I would much rather a film simply use the establishing principles of the franchise- characters, terms, locations, references, etc.- to craft an original story more befitting of the medium. Basically, it should do a Sonic OVA.

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Shadow was one of the first characters of the Sonic franchise to have quite a history and Boom just dragged that under the carpet, what with them giving him an extremely arrogant personality and an out-of-the-blue rivalry with Sonic (against whom he fights for no reason other than to prove he's better than Sonic). 

 

I don't know which is odder: that Shadow actually parted in good terms with Sonic by the end of SA2 - AND Shadow the Hedgehog - and therefore he shouldn't be so hostile toward his former rival in Boom or that this Boom Shadow is actually so verbal and foul mouthed in contrast to his Sonic X/games counterpart: a silent, introspective hedgehog who's clearly torn apart between being a hero and exacting Gerald's revenge. Only after he sorts out his confusing memories about the Ark can he hear his true calling and fulfill his destiny.

And in the Metarex Saga, he tells Rouge he can never have control of his own life. He clearly states his fate seems to be always in the hands of others. Which is why he never insults Eggman and keeps mostly to himself, since he's afraid to miss the one chance to get answers about his lost past. He hides his insecurity behind a façade of false self-confidence. So seeing how he was portrayed in Boom was, well...quite a shock.

Let's see how they handle Shadow in Boom. Although I bet there'll be no mention of Maria or the Ark in the TV series. Just plenty of senseless fighting between two hedgehogs who think they're better than the other. 

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37 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Let's see how they handle Shadow in Boom. Although I bet there'll be no mention of Maria or the Ark in the TV series. Just plenty of senseless fighting between two hedgehogs who think they're better than the other. 

Of course they won’t talk about that stuff. Because that back-story probably never happened to Boom Shadow. Boom is a different canon/universe for a reason, and if I was a writer for Boom I wouldn’t want to include any of the back stories from the original series either. I think Shadow being a jerk rival to Sonic is fine and is a more iconic character slot to place him in… With Sonic-Team’s Shadow his role is so vague now that he almost needs to be pushed back in personality to allow him to be a more proper dark rival again.

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2 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Of course they won’t talk about that stuff. Because that back-story probably never happened to Boom Shadow. Boom is a different canon/universe for a reason, and if I was a writer for Boom I wouldn’t want to include any of the back stories from the original series either. I think Shadow being a jerk rival to Sonic is fine and is a more iconic character slot to place him in… With Sonic-Team’s Shadow his role is so vague now that he almost needs to be pushed back in personality to allow him to be a more proper dark rival again.

I keep wondering what reason that is. Since Boom is going to be included in Sonic's 25th Anniversary - a homage to his long 25th year game trajectory - and seems to be here to stay.

For a side story, it sure seems to be slowly and stadily vying to occupy the spot light of the franchise. And I quite frankly don't know what to think of it, since Boom ignores the story of even the Modern games...

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13 hours ago, Stardust said:

I keep wondering what reason that is. Since Boom is going to be included in Sonic's 25th Anniversary - a homage to his long 25th year game trajectory - and seems to be here to stay.

For a side story, it sure seems to be slowly and stadily vying to occupy the spot light of the franchise. And I quite frankly don't know what to think of it, since Boom ignores the story of even the Modern games...

I'm still holding out for the chance that Boom will be over with when the second season and F&I are over with.

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6 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Of course they won’t talk about that stuff. Because that back-story probably never happened to Boom Shadow. Boom is a different canon/universe for a reason, and if I was a writer for Boom I wouldn’t want to include any of the back stories from the original series either. I think Shadow being a jerk rival to Sonic is fine and is a more iconic character slot to place him in… With Sonic-Team’s Shadow his role is so vague now that he almost needs to be pushed back in personality to allow him to be a more proper dark rival again.

This post system is super shitty and now there is a video linked in my post that I have no idea how to get rid of. So please ignore it. Unless you like 90's house music, then your welcome.

Back on topic, to the top post

Iirc I remember folks working on boom stuff saying that backstory stuff is an eventuality. Which makes sense, I can imagine a bunch of shadow themed toys with it. Get an event going.

To your point though, no i dissagree, him being just a dark rival isnt good. The reason he sustained popularity for so long was because he was unique in being more than that. Fun fact, he doesnt even actually give a shit about sonic or really anyone in sa2 for like a lot of that game. Him being more than that, was in his 1st apperence. And I feel like to devolve his character into that is a sort of functional missunderstanding of how shadow opperates as a character. And I feel like thats why boom version is largley crititized, by folks who aren't even fond of him too.

All that said as I mentioned above, if sonic boom is anything its a glorified toy comnercials and they have dropped enough hints that whatever shadows's issues are will be eleborated on. Heck it seems like untill they reach that point they didnt really want to use him. The writers of the show admitting themselves that they didnt want to make the episode they did with shadow initially because they didn't wanna make fun of him. You might be like, thats strange they make fun of everyone, yeah sure. But it was relatively light and nothing, heck the biggest joke invovling shadow in thst whole episode was eggman thinking shadow was cool. They don't say this, but if i were to guess, they dont want that character they are going to sell super hard later to look like a goober now, when his time comes he'll be cool guy with a story.

But I suppouse this detour lead me back to my original point. While I'm sure boom shadow is going change, heck he did already in boom, when presented with out context if you aren't ontop of your game, you could mess shadow up. Which is my main fear for all the characters in these movies to be quite honest. While sonic isn't the hight of videogame fiction, these characters had nuances that made them appealing, i think sega even forgets that sometimes. And I trust a movie studio less.

 

To the bottom post, to the to the problem of them trying to reconcile a cast whilst still trying to appeal to the no friend folks I feel is a very recent interesting problem sega has been trying to solve, i think sonic boom being attempt at sometype of solution. But i feel like even with that , there is going to be a breakage. They are in a time as a modern-day company where they have a franchise where having a lot of characteres to sell inside, outside, and along side games is good. But they have moved away from that, so its this weird approach they have to take.

But im rambling, the main point I wanted to adress in your post is the idea that sonic media shouldnt be to adhered to the game's story and logic, I agree. Aside from being inconsistent, kind of sexist in some instances, and generally flawed. I feel like interperitations of sonic's world or new sonic worlds are better exicuted than more litteral ones. While im not fond of a lot of the archie specific characters how they have done the worlds and the characters in relation to that have been atleast interesting. And while sonic boom land is currently mostly undiscovered contry, its still way better than a lot of sonic worlds be being somewhat of a cohesive thing. My ideal would be a combination of these worlds, we would get cool guy and old design knuckles with no humans. But again rambling.

There are certain propties, like many a dc comic movie, i feel like avoiding the source material made it actively worse and shown a misunderstanding of the characters and who they are. I feel like loosing sight of the silly shit that got you here often backfires. I feel like modern sonic suffers from this. But I also feel like in the context of this film there so many undefined aspects of sonic winging it a bit would probably work fine.

That said its live action and this conversation problably wont matter because it will be on some transformers bafoonery. And be in human land. And problably have the same issue as i had with sonic x. The only world I actually wanted to explore in that show was sonic's world and we barely see it.

7 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Shadow's involvement in any plot at this point is basically the same as every other character's: "I don't feel like being ruled by Eggman or dying from some apocalyptic scenario." Regardless, any character having a basis for being in a game doesn't mean they're automatically to be written interestingly within the individual plot points of an overall narrative or given any development or revelations, which is the real problem with the cast right now. Sonic Team has always had a reason for using any character they want through Eggman's ambitions; the issue is reconciling utilization of an extended cast in an era where they're trying to appeal to people who never want to see them again.

Also, I don't feel any Sonic movie should be relying on adapting a whole lot from the games anyway, because to me it's a waste of a rare opportunity on something that can be looked up on YouTube or Wikipedia, as this could be the only theatrical Sonic film we ever get. I would much rather a film simply use the establishing principles of the franchise- characters, terms, locations, references, etc.- to craft an original story more befitting of the medium. Basically, it should do a Sonic OVA.

 

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I actually think Sega already backed away from the idea of Boom being a separate universe, if it's true that they removed all the material from Rise Of Lyric that suggested Sonic and his friends and Eggman hadn't encountered each other before.  This also accounts for Shadow's lack of a backstory in the game; he's canon Shadow, just badly written.

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2 hours ago, FFWF said:

I actually think Sega already backed away from the idea of Boom being a separate universe, if it's true that they removed all the material from Rise Of Lyric that suggested Sonic and his friends and Eggman hadn't encountered each other before.  This also accounts for Shadow's lack of a backstory in the game; he's canon Shadow, just badly written.

That doesnt mean it isn't  a seperate universe, it still is. Is it trying to account for a section of the main line games that has gone underserved, yes I belive so. But its still its own thing. Different character designs, lack of chaos emeralds and new characters are a pretty good indicator.

Maybe they just thought sonic and eggman being familliar would be a baseline, a sort of ground zero to which all there changes spawn from. But its still very much a different thing. Do i think shadow is poorly excuted? Yeah outside of shattered crystal kind of, but i feel like that will fix itself.

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16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Nah

He's probably in there and there is and there is a probably a bunch of dumb jokes about him brutally beating human sized people, and him being intimidating for the size he is. 

I'm going to call this cleche , right now. They are going to sell some toy ass toys.  

This is legit my favorite post ever. "Toy Ass Toys" is entering my vocabulary now.

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Yeah, Shadow isn't going to be in the movie, 'Toy Ass Toys' or not - he has oodles of backstory to set up, which is not what you want when trying to establish your main characters in the first place. They're going to have enough on their plate making a talking blue hedgehog, mutant fox, and badniks plausible without suddenly bringing the sodding Space Colony Ark and child murder into it. And Shadow needs some context, because otherwise he just seems like some random bellend - Rise Of Lyric!

On the other hand, he's perfect sequel fodder - he's a bad guy that accurately matches Sonic skillset, which hopefully (Metal Sonic seems like overkill in the first movie) won't have been challenged yet. And his story can deepen the world too, so long as they keep it straight.

What I think we'll get:

  • Sonic, Tails, Amy, and maybe Knuckles.
  • Eggman being the sole bad guy, but possibly being more menacing than Boom - he's got to actually do some proper villainy, but y'know, still be funny.
  • Chaos Emeralds - Everybody likes a good macguffin, they are a staple of the franchise, and the only thing else that would work is Sonic trying to free his friends from Eggman turning them into robots. But Chaos Emeralds may be an excuse to get Knuckles with his story.
  • Station Square, and maybe GUN - live action, natch.
  • A joke where Soleanna is mentioned and Sonic gets an uneasy feeling for some unknown reason.
  • The Egg Carrier, but possibly with a better name.
  • Some ridiculously dope remixes of classic Sonic tunes, but....
  • Meghan Trainor/Katy Perry/Pitbull singing over the end credits.

What I don't think we'll get:

  • Any more of Sonic's friends. They all have weird backstories, or are simply unnecessary. Sequels could bring Shadow, Silver, and Blaze, but I fail to see what The Chaotix, Cream The Rabbit, or Rouge could bring to anything.
  • Elemental bad guys - Chaos would be the best one to use, but again, too strong for a first movie. Establish Knuckles  the Chaos Emeralds first
  • A start like Rise Of Lyric - asking moviegoers to know loads about Sonic, who these characters are, and why Eggman is doing this straight away is a bit too much. Set it up.
  • Metal Sonic - he's too powerful for the first movie. Sonic and Eggman have to fight almost as a Superman/Lex Luthor style battle, raw physical talent vs wits and tech. Metal Sonic always seemed like a 'gotcha!' from Eggman - he's finally programmed a robot that essentially is Sonic, through observation and countless defeats. Meeting Sonic for the first time and just going 'I think I'll make me one of those' is a bit meh.
  • The Death Egg - Lucasfilm have some wily lawyers.
  • Rings, as it's clear no-one has any idea what to do with them. Sonic For Hire so far has had the only plausible explanation as to what rings are so far - Archie's Fountain of Rings and X's deus ex RING SPINDASH are not gonna fly in a movie.

Sorry, this sort of post has probably been done to death in this thread, but just wanted to get my thoughts in order.

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9 minutes ago, Hyp3hat said:

Yeah, Shadow isn't going to be in the movie, 'Toy Ass Toys' or not - he has oodles of backstory to set up,

Good thing they don't have to address all that in the first movie and can just have him there and he can contribute and then you set the character up later to then in another film go into that for another reason. 

Good thing that's a commonly used film technique. 

"Who exactly is black panther, you'll find out later, look at him being fucking awesome right now."

" Yeah spiderman's here, you'll find out what this version's deal is later, as for now look at him being rad as shit" 

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2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Good thing they don't have to address all that in the first movie and can just have him there and he can contribute and then you set the character up later to then in another film go into that for another reason. 

Good thing that's a commonly used film technique. 

Who exactly is black panther, you'll find out later, look at him being fucking awesome right now. 

Yeah, we could just throw a bunch of people in a movie with no context and explain it later in sequels and spino-

2117.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&f

Oh wait, that's a dreadful idea.

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10 minutes ago, Hyp3hat said:

Yeah, we could just throw a bunch of people in a movie with no context and explain it later in sequels and spino-

2117.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&f

Oh wait, that's a dreadful idea.

Good thing There is a good version of this... like the examples I just used. '

Spoiler

 

g4VWSDm.jpg

 

From Captain america civil war., you shouldn't count Zack snider's incompetence as a director as sometype of wall the film medium can't cross. He's just shit. 

It doesn't happen in movies, T shows comic books ect. Who's this cool guy , is one of the most commonly used technique in film... ever. To reference marvel again Luke cage is never actually explained In the jessica jones show, he will be later. 

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1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Good thing There is a good version of this... like the examples I just used. '

From Captain america civil war., you shouldn't count Zack snider's incompetence as a director as sometype of wall the film medium can't cross. He's just shit. 

Words cannot accurately express how over the whole MCU thing I am - they are seriously asking me to invest something like 60+ hours in it to understand things, especially with Agents of Shield (which is, by all accounts, terrible) being used to plug in gaps like 'why are the Avengers attacking this base' in Ultron. In fact, I am actively scared of the MCU for what it might do to my beloved Jessica Jones and Daredevil.

But besides that.... do you seriously expect a Sonic Cinematic Universe? 

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3 minutes ago, Hyp3hat said:

Words cannot accurately express how over the whole MCU thing I am - they are seriously asking me to invest something like 60+ hours in it to understand things, especially with Agents of Shield (which is, by all accounts, terrible) being used to plug in gaps like 'why are the Avengers attacking this base' in Ultron. In fact, I am actively scared of the MCU for what it might do to my beloved Jessica Jones and Daredevil.

But besides that.... do you seriously expect a Sonic Cinematic Universe? 

Welcome to comic book stuff? 

 

Also cinematic universe? I have no idea, a bunch of movies focused on different stuff that are glorified toy commercials, oh hell yeah. That's the nae of the game. 

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Welcome to comic book stuff? 

 

Also cinematic universe? I have no idea, a bunch of movies focused on different stuff that are glorified toy commercials, oh hell yeah. That's the nae of the game. 

I mean, this superhero fatigue I'm experiencing is going to happen with the wider populace sooner or later - I'd even wager Warner/DC's blundering into the arena may hasten it - because it's getting overstuffed and complicated and harder for newbies to get involved in. Y'know, just like comic books, that famously accessible medium.

And this even isn't what this Sonic movie we're talking about should be shooting for! They should just shoot for telling a story with these characters well, and one great way to ensure that is to keep the players down to a minimum. Like, y'know, every other movie that isn't Marvel. You seem so cynical about this thing we're disagreeing about, is it something you want or do you think it's an inevitability that's a shallow moneygrab? It's definitely not inevitable.

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