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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)


Badnik Mechanic

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Is everyone forgetting Marza Animation is in charge of the animation? I'm sure the Animation will be great and honestly I'm expecting Sonic's Model to be essentially the same just slightly fuzzier than normal.

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@Marco9966 This. Is. Not. A. CG. Animated. Movie.. You can not treat it like one. The classic Sonic model looks great in a cartoony, stylized world because it was designed to exist that way. But that dynamic completely changes when you put the character in a realistic environment, with real actors, within the confines of a more mature story. 

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1 minute ago, PeterPancake said:

@Marco9966 This. Is. Not. A. CG. Animated. Movie.. You can not treat it like one. The classic Sonic model looks great in a cartoony, stylized world because it was designed to exist that way. But that dynamic completely changes when you put the character in a realistic environment within the confines of a more mature story. 

I posted some examples of real/CG official Sonic ads, watch them.

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18 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

I posted some examples of real/CG official Sonic ads, watch them.

Yes and those look hilarious and laughable. You're proving my point, dude. Especially the first one LOL. Sonic moves with no sense of weight or gravity at all. He looks like he was superimposed into every single shot. He does belong in a real world environment. It looks laughably bad but guess what? That's what they were going for. That's the intended effect. Both of them are highlighting the absurdity of game Sonic existing in our world to sell their product. Tye guy in the Progressive commercial literally turns into a cartoon seconds after Sonic gets insurance. This movie is going for something COMPLETELY different. A more mature movie set in our world with the Government chasing Sonic does not mesh with caricatured cartoons. 

 

What you posted is more in vein of what unfinished CG would look like or basic placeholder models to map out a scene. That's how bad that looks. I guarantee you if you showed either of those clips to anybody outside of this fandom, they would not think it looks "Badass" LOL

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1 minute ago, PeterPancake said:

Yes and those look hilarious and laughable. You're proving my point, dude. Especially the first one LOL. Sonic moves with no sense of weight or gravity at all. He looks like he was superimposed into every single shot.  It looks laughably bad but guess what?

Well that's a problem with the animation, not the model itself which looks great.

It's not gonna be a serious government conspiracy! It's gonna be a funny movie with some action like Peter Rabbit!

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3 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Don't you realize how hilariously bad this looks?

 iZlrJ6h.jpg

Ok but the thing is: the argument isn't "Sonic must look identical to the games or it will look bad", it's "It will look bad regardless because an on-model Sonic doesn't fit a live action scene and redesigning him so he does means he won't look like Sonic anymore".

24 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:


 

I mean the end of this one basically demonstrates how the two don't actually fit together...

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I mean the end of this one basically demonstrates how the two don't actually fit together...

It would be fun to apply in the movie, like Sonic sees Tom as a cartoony version of himself.policeman-cartoon-rigged-3d-model-rigged561d9fd7c6e90.image.jpg

And Tom sees Sonic a real cute blue hedgehog.0acc09a61a975f40253f969cdb2a1b7d.jpgdate-de-sortie-pour-le-film-sonic_020114

(This is not gonna be in the movie, but it's funny)

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10 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Ok but the thing is: the argument isn't "Sonic must look identical to the games or it will look bad", it's "It will look bad regardless because an on-model Sonic doesn't fit a live action scene and redesigning him so he does means he won't look like Sonic anymore".

I mean the end of this one basically demonstrates how the two don't actually fit together...

At least you understand the reality of the situation. That commercial PROVES my point. They literally have that man turn into a cartoon to exacerbate the ridiculousness and absurditity of cartoon Sonic existing in a real world setting. How could anybody think this would look good to most people?  That it would be "badass"?? It would be hilarious. Trying to take Sonic seriously looking like that would be impossible.

 

Sonic getting design update does not mean he doesn't look like Sonic anymore. All of the examples I posted are instantly recognizable as Sonic.

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Well Marza is really good with fur textures, just look at the Unleashed opening with the Werehog's fur textures. Basically in the film we'll have Sonic with the werehog fur textures.

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1 hour ago, Blue Knight/Bluestreak said:

Well Marza is really good with fur textures, just look at the Unleashed opening with the Werehog's fur textures. Basically in the film we'll have Sonic with the werehog fur textures.

 I'm also expecting toned proportions and Sonic to have an actual neck this time around. Also a mouth with a full set of teeth. Make him look less "cartoony and more mature and real 

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2 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

 I'm also expecting toned proportions and Sonic to have an actual neck this time around. Also a mouth with a full set of teeth. Make him look less "cartoony and more mature and real 

Don't just throw around the word mature, I accept the word real, but something can be cartoony/stylized and mature.

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9 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Don't just throw around the word mature, I accept the word real, but something can be cartoony/stylized and mature.

Fair enough. Although the context of my use of the word is in reference to the movie 

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Just my final two cents on the design problem with Sonic, I think if using comic book characters as an example then Rocket from GotG as well as Howard the Duck are better characters to look at comparatively as both are anthropomorphic animals.

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Now as you can see, both characters have changed a lot from their original designs (comic evolution and style changes notwithstanding), but Rocket has always had a design based in reality whereas Howard was pretty much a Disney duck. As a result Howard looks significantly less comic accurate than Rocket, especially in the eyes. Regardless though, both still resemble their current comic counterparts more so than not and are thus reasonably believable and recognizable. Arguably, Howard is not particularly aesthetically pleasing but that plays to his strengths as a character and does not detract from the movie since in GotG he is just a cameo character. The problem is, Sonic is even less realistic than Howard and has proportions more similar to Garfield.

GarfieldCurious.png

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The above images demonstrate just how much that design type will be changed. Sonic though, is still more extreme yet than even Garfield as the above and prior examples all at least have two separate eyes, something Sonic does not. This means that Sonic is going to be even further exposed to re-imagining taking him further and further away from what he should be. The question of how far he can go though is also up for debate due to SEGA's insistence on consistent imagery for the brand. On a whole it just seems likely that Sonic's imagery for this movie is going to fail in all regards no matter what path is taken just due to the nature of his design style.

Failure for this movie isn't limited to just a character design aspect though.  There is also the narrative to be concerned about. Though the writers tell us to think GotG and not Smurfs, we are given this tidbit.

9 hours ago, CaptainRobo said:

The movie’s plot is about a small town coming together to help the sheriff save Sonic – a blue anthropomorphic hedgehog that can reach the speed of sound – from the government chasing after him.

In order of importance, this quote places Sonic the lowest with the sheriff and village above him, with the village itself taking top billing. The desperate need to make a relate-able world pushes Sonic further and further from being the focus of the movie and more and more like a catalyst for the human characters to change. Such did not happen to Rocket Raccoon in GotG despite him being an anthropomorphic raccoon. Even Groot, a tree with one line, is treated as a full fledged member of the team with a character arc and pathos without a desperate need to sell his believe-ability to the audience or tell a more human story to support the fantastical character. He's just a part of the world, no explanations needed. No veering away from the source material just to make him "work" for the general audience. Marvel gambled on these obscure an absurd characters and struck gold while still being faithful to the source material. But again, Sonic is even more absurd, and he is anything but obscure. That creates expectations and demands which likely can't be met no matter how hard the production team tries. Paramount is looking for a blockbuster, but to me it looks like they're heading straight for a bust just due to the nature of the franchise that they're courting.

On an aside, looking at that plot I can't help but feel like Eggman is just going to be some robotics expert that the government hires to make a machine to catch Sonic. I know I'm being negative, but I'm not being given any reason to have faith in this production yet so how can I be positive? 

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I ordeecirisyr

4 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Just my final two cents on the design problem with Sonic, I think if using comic book characters as an example then Rocket from GotG as well as Howard the Duck are better characters to look at comparatively as both are anthropomorphic animals.

539?cb=20140524161417640?cb=20120726080503

latest?cb=20140716181050

qtdyhgqqgi401.jpg

Now as you can see, both characters have changed a lot from their original designs (comic evolution and style changes notwithstanding), but Rocket has always had a design based in reality whereas Howard was pretty much a Disney duck. As a result Howard looks significantly less comic accurate than Rocket, especially in the eyes. Regardless though, both still resemble their current comic counterparts more so than not and are thus reasonably believable and recognizable. Arguably, Howard is not particularly aesthetically pleasing but that plays to his strengths as a character and does not detract from the movie since in GotG he is just a cameo character. The problem is, Sonic is even less realistic than Howard and has proportions more similar to Garfield.

GarfieldCurious.png

latest?cb=20091118080136

The above images demonstrate just how much that design type will be changed. Sonic though, is still more extreme yet than even Garfield as the above and prior examples all at least have two separate eyes, something Sonic does not. This means that Sonic is going to be even further exposed to re-imagining taking him further and further away from what he should be. The question of how far he can go though is also up for debate due to SEGA's insistence on consistent imagery for the brand. On a whole it just seems likely that Sonic's imagery for this movie is going to fail in all regards no matter what path is taken just due to the nature of his design style.

Failure for this movie isn't limited to just a character design aspect though.  There is also the narrative to be concerned about. Though the writers tell us to think GotG and not Smurfs, we are given this tidbit.

In order of importance, this quote places Sonic the lowest with the sheriff and village above him, with the village itself taking top billing. The desperate need to make a relate-able world pushes Sonic further and further from being the focus of the movie and more and more like a catalyst for the human characters to change. Such did not happen to Rocket Raccoon in GotG despite him being an anthropomorphic raccoon. Even Groot, a tree with one line, is treated as a full fledged member of the team with a character arc and pathos without a desperate need to sell his believe-ability to the audience or tell a more human story to support the fantastical character. He's just a part of the world, no explanations needed. No veering away from the source material just to make him "work" for the general audience. Marvel gambled on these obscure an absurd characters and struck gold while still being faithful to the source material. But again, Sonic is even more absurd, and he is anything but obscure. That creates expectations and demands which likely can't be met no matter how hard the production team tries. Paramount is looking for a blockbuster, but to me it looks like they're heading straight for a bust just due to the nature of the franchise that they're courting.

On an aside, looking at that plot I can't help but feel like Eggman is just going to be some robotics expert that the government hires to make a machine to catch Sonic. I know I'm being negative, but I'm not being given any reason to have faith in this production yet so how can I be positive? 

I appreciate the in-depth post and I understand your concerns. 

But if Sonic looked like this, for example, would you be angry?

WRgnKP3.jpg

 

Would that not be faithful to the original design while solving most of the problems raised in your posts? I don't completely understand the mindset some have here. Sonic looking like a cartoon is not an essential aspect of his recognizability nor is it vital to his iconography. Sonic having two eyeballs merged together is not essential for a faithful design. That image above is Immediately recognizable as Sonic the Hedgehog - only difference is, it looks more realistic. I think the design is going to something like that and I doubt Sega would have any problem with that whatsoever considering the subject and nature of this movie. Doing something like the above is completely different from doing something like this:

67WJozW.png

Now THAT is an extreme redesign. That is what should never be allowed.

 

I think the problem here is that many here are so attached to cartoon Sonic that any attempt to change or ground the design in reality in any way at all is Immediately painted as "looking nothing like Sonic" and this simply is not true. Anybody can identify the above as Sonic and that's the most IMPORTANT thing. You should not be expecting Sonic's 3D model from the games to be superimposed into the movie.  That's not going to work for anybody else besides established fans. The fact that someone though that cheesy McDonald's commercial with CG Sonic would be "Badass" if the movie had the same art style shows how out of touch some are with the GA. Absolutely nobody would think that looked badass or cool, they would think it look as ridiculous and dumb. 

 

I guess we'll see what happens. I was right about the celebrity actors, I was right about the human being the lead.. We just have to wait for the first pic of Sonic...

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So, they choose Ladysmith to filmed as the hero town for the movie? It seem to be an nice place to filmed. 

78E0DB6C-036E-48B6-B08F-26846AB6ABE9.jpeg.8ae84ca17dfe69b5e4279e1fd8b4ebf2.jpeg

Do you guys think we will get something about the movie at Comic-Con next month?

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13 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

This is simply not true. The first Bay TMNT movie was a box-office smash. Kids and adults alike ate it up. When it came out it had an 79% audience approval rating on Rotten omatoes and a "B" Cinemascore (That's slightly above average) It had a 65 million opening and beat Guardians of the Galaxy in it's first week. I took my little brother, my nephew and two of my friends to see the movie and they loved the fuck out of it. No kid was afraid of the life-like Turtles. The majority of the criticism of the designs was coming from angry hardcore fans and a couple of movie critics, NOT the general audience.

That’s not entirely accurate; firstly, the fact that the first film was financially successful is slightly misleading as it's TMNT - the franchise has enough momentum that they could have shot it in claymation and the first movie would still have been a box office smash. The audience reviews may have started high, but it was panned by the critics and the rotten tomatoes audience currently has it at 51%. Similarly, I don't think it was just the ‘hardcore’ fans that reacted with... mixed feelings towards the redesign, it was somewhat prevalent all over the internet and generated a goodly number of memes.

13 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

A serious plot like the Government wanting to capture Sonic - likely to dissect and experiment on him does not work on any feasible level with cartoon characters that looked like they walked off the set of Duck Tales: A Christmas Special.

I don't think that's necessarily the case, nor is the story of the Sonic movie as revealed so far particularly serious; the original Pete's Dragon contained essentially a similar plot from its villain, and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? had a much darker storyline despite much goofier toons. The key here is the framing to allow suspension of disbelief present - if Sonic is supposed to be a mutant or something, I agree his game design would be too cartoony, but if he is a creature from a different dimension, then a weirder design is easier to swallow.

Still not ideal, mind you - having the live action and CGI in the first place was a bad idea for something like Sonic - but I don't think people would react as badly to his game design as you suggest.

13 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Yes it would be. Alien/Creature or not, Sonic is still going to be interacting with REAL human beings. If a creature from another dimension came to our world, they would still have to abide by the basic laws of the universe, the basic laws of anatomy.. they would still look like they physically belong in our world.

....Why? A creature from another dimension isn't necessarily going to share our dimension’s norms, that's.... kind of the whole point. Reams of fiction, serious and otherwise, has been written about entities from elsewhere that break the laws of our universe; the fact that they are supposed to be explicitly from outside our plane of reality is what gives them a modicum of suspension of disbelief.

13 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Don't you realize how hilariously bad this looks? iZlrJ6h.jpg

That's not an entirely fair example - that's a poorly photoshopped Sonic placed randomly without any ambient lighting; actual film level CGI would look superior and more detailed.

However, you are right in that without any framing or context, Sonic does look strange in a real life environment, and could draw some mirth... but the problem is, so do the redesigns. Sure, realistic-ish fur may look slightly better, but imagine putting your picture, your Bluecore improvement or the re-proportioned Sonic in that picture instead. Would they look right next to the humans? Or would they still look like a cartoony mascot suit, a furry convention goer or an escapee from Monsters Inc?

This is the problem with redesigning Sonic; while something like Alvin and the Chipmunks can be made to a realistic approximation relatively easily, Sonic is so stylised that anything less than a complete redesign looks... a bit strange at best and unsettling at worst.

Take your realistic Sonic picture; you're obviously a skilled artist and the picture is done to a high quality, with significant detail - it succeeds in realising a more realistically styled Sonic. However, due to Sonic's over stylised nature, that realisation does fall into a rather uncanny valley area, where its not entirely toony and not entirely realistic, with the end result of Sonic looking.... less appealing than his standard design, while still being out of place in the real world. That isn't due to your skills as an artist, it's just the natural end result of trying to draw a character like Sonic in a realistic fashion.

I fear that a 'realistic' Sonic would fall into the same pitfalls of his regular design - looking strange next to real environments - while also falling prey to the negative feedback and joke memes that such a drastic redesign would inevitably lead to. The only other option of course would be to radically redesign him from the ground up to look realistic, abandoning almost all his game look, but I suspect that would end in something like the live action Mario movie, where it bears almost no resemblance to the franchise it's based upon.

....

Of course, that doesn't mean that SEGA and the filmakers won't actually decide to do any of these things, they've made some.... unusual choices with this film already....

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3 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

The fact that someone though that cheesy McDonald's commercial with CG Sonic would be "Badass" if the movie had the same art style shows how out of touch some are with the GA. Absolutely nobody would think that looked badass or cool, they would think it look as ridiculous and dumb. 
 

I never said that it would look badass, rather it looks good.

Badass for me doesn't come from the realistic design, it comes from the action scenes, the good CGI.

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Reading through the article, I may have pieced together at least some of the story. There was an article earlier mentioning that Sonic and Tom have to stop Eggman, and this article mentions Sonic having the government after him. Now who could take advantage of that, or be behind it? Eggman.

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This doesn't sound bad at all, to me. The one thing I really hope is that they at LEAST get Tails and Knuckles in there, I don't want Sonic being the only 'Mobian' in the whole film.

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Humans trying to protect strange character from government.. yeah, that's just about one of the potential plots for this sort of thing. Wonder if it'll be GUN.

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12 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

The answer is more than obvious.

I mean the way I see it, the answer is "Hollywood can, sometimes, make false assumptions about what people would be willing to accept."

The average person interested in a Superman movie in the first place is not going to be turned off if he has the over-underwear. Nor will they care if he doesn't. Hell the average person wouldn't care in a BATMAN movie.

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