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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)


Badnik Mechanic

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In double fairness, Pokemon teaming up with humans to do whatever it is they do is like, the entire point of the games. That's not really true for Sonic.

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As others have said, Sonic had no basis in reality. And having a cartoon as the main action piece in a blockbuster that wants to sell itself to the masses is not smart. Sonic looks the way he does because it was the only way.

 

I tried to warn you guys years ago that he would change. Trying to get you ready for it

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8 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

In double fairness, Pokemon teaming up with humans to do whatever it is they do is like, the entire point of the games. That's not really true for Sonic.

Detective Pikachu is also based off an already existing game.

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3 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

I tried to warn you guys years ago that he would change. Trying to get you ready for it

...what are you on about? You only joined in the latter half of 2017 to almost exclusively post in this very thread.

4 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

As others have said, Sonic had no basis in reality. And having a cartoon as the main action piece in a blockbuster that wants to sell itself to the masses is not smart.

Elaborate.

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Just now, StaticMania said:

Mature people don't like cartoons.

Cartoons is not general family stuff.

I sure hope this is sarcasm, because the big ruckus these past few days was Into the Spider-verse winning an Oscar.

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10 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

...what are you on about? You only joined in the latter half of 2017 to almost exclusively post in this very thread.

Elaborate.

I was in the Sega Forum (that shut down) wayyy back in 2014 when the project was still at Sony. I made an account here too in 2016 when Tim Millee joined the project but I decided not to post. And the moment Van Robichaux said the movie would be PG-13, I knew the design was going to change 

 

Just look at the Avengers movie. Are the Avengers fighting cartoons? Is Captain America wearing trunks and Thor wearing a thong? It's all about making the product presentable to the GA. 

 

And Detective Pikachu will probably be PG-13 too 

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15 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

I was in the Sega Forum that shut down wayyy back in 2014 when the project was still at Sony and the moment Van Robichaux said the movie would be PG-13, I knew the design was going to change

Ah, you're from over there. I jumped ship from there since the whole Sonic 4 debacle.

Quote

Just look at the Avengers movie. Are the Avengers fighting cartoons? Is Captain America wearing trunks and Thor wearing a thong? It's all about making the product presentable to the GA.

Those are measured changes across multiple generations, and they're essentially human beings in costumes. You're just changing the costume and the actor.

Sonic the Hedgehog, by contrast, is a walking, talking anthropomorphic animal character along the lines of Mickey Mouse and Felix the Cat. This is not the same situation. I made a lengthy thread on Twitter explaining the psychology behind why this doesn't work, but it's easier to link you to a research study on the uncanny valley in relation to animals. To summarize, Sonic traditionally falls into the "funny animal" category, leaning towards the sort of thing you see for a mascot character. He's a cartoon. He's always been a cartoon. By applying hyper-realistic details (to the point where he could actually exist) to his design, he risks falling into the 'uncanny valley,' which you do NOT want. Even live-action CG blunders like Yogi Bear and Woody Woodpecker had enough sense to keep the designs consistent with what made them appealing. Sonic is at risk of causing adverse reactions; the only unknown is his face, which may not be enough to offset the unnecessary detail on his arms and legs.

I will say this again, as it bears repeating: Sonic is an anthropomorphic animal cartoon character. Not a superhero in tights. Not a robot character. The latter do not run the risk of the uncanny valley. The former does, because it's a living creature that is computer generated. 

Quote

And Detective Pikachu will probably be PG-13 too 

Oh goodie.

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Yes, but the way these things are presented are not in a laughable or cartoonish light. Thanos' design was gracefully translated to live action. He doesn't look like a cartoon anymore but like a real creature. Is Sonic that much different from this?

thanos-costume-movie-comic-book-comparison-1107549-1280x0.jpeg.thumb.jpg.a6ecca35d2605778d00cc34eb19454dc.jpg

 

Or this 

Captain-Marvel-Skrull-comparison.thumb.jpg.1441f2f16e1d78877b59274523c3ba6f.jpg

 

Or this

gotgrocketcomparison.jpg.c56a676ed1fd52a13fdfdd27db87c9a4.jpg

 

or perhaps most fitting to Sonic's highly carcaturized, cartoony design -- this 

 

Howard_the_Duck_Vol_1_1.thumb.jpg.a1f787b0021fbcb71dfff671103125b8.jpg

 

To this

99NOQd1.jpg

 

What do these designs all have in common? They take the comic design and blend/alter it into reality in a way that's BELIEVABLE. I just- I dont understand why anybody thought Sonic would make the jump fron game to movie completely unchanged. I don't understand how anybody would have thought it would have been acceptable for him to do so. Maybe it's my short stint in film school with a minor in marketing talking but- I just can't understand the frustration some have of Tim and co not wanting a cartoon in their movie when it would have sold to no one. Like, I get it - you wanted an animated movie but the minute they announced a live action/CG feature, people had to have known this was coming. Even when I was on the Sega forums wayyy back in 2014, I tried to warn the fanbase..

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8 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

I don't understand why anybody thought Sonic would make the jump from game to movie completely unchanged

Why do the thing that "requires" changing Sonic in the 1st place, dood?

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11 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

the minute they announced a live action/CG feature, people had to have known this was coming

Well, they could have done a 'Who framed Roger Rabbit?' or 'Space Jam' style if they really wanted to..but apparently, mutated CGI is a more appealing choice.

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Sonic is always going to be a hard translation into realistic because the characters can get so far away from the real animal you wouldn't know they were an echidna or hedgehog without the name telling you thats what they are.

Also speaking of shit movies where an anthropomorpic alien is trasported to earth hi Howard the Duck.

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It's all about the type of story you want to tell. The type of story calls for a certain type of tone and atmosphere. And certain things/elements won't fit into said constructed tone. A 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit' COULD have absolutely worked but that's not what they wanted. That's not an action blockbuster. Not try to imagine Roger Rabbit as he appeared in that movie fighting alongside the Avengers or in the midst of an action scene in Fast and Furious. Two styles that don't match will clash. This Is why Sonic had to adapt to the material of this movie. 

 

Was It the right choice? Should they have went this route in the first place? Well... That's up to you to decide. But all I'm saying is that there is a very practical reason why this movie looks the way it does 

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16 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

Yes, but the way these things are presented are not in a laughable or cartoonish light. Thanos' design was gracefully translated to live action. He doesn't look like a cartoon anymore but like a real creature. Is Sonic that much different from this?

thanos-costume-movie-comic-book-comparison-1107549-1280x0.jpeg.thumb.jpg.a6ecca35d2605778d00cc34eb19454dc.jpg

 

Or this 

Captain-Marvel-Skrull-comparison.thumb.jpg.1441f2f16e1d78877b59274523c3ba6f.jpg

 

Or this

gotgrocketcomparison.jpg.c56a676ed1fd52a13fdfdd27db87c9a4.jpg

 

or perhaps most fitting to Sonic's highly carcaturized, cartoony design -- this 

 

Howard_the_Duck_Vol_1_1.thumb.jpg.a1f787b0021fbcb71dfff671103125b8.jpg

 

To this

99NOQd1.jpg

 

What do these designs all have in common? They take the comic design and blend/alter it into reality in a way that's BELIEVABLE. I just- I dont understand why anybody thought Sonic would make the jump fron game to movie completely unchanged. I don't understand how anybody would have thought it would have been acceptable for him to do so. Maybe it's my short stint in film school with a minor in marketing talking but- I just can't understand the frustration some have of Tim and co not wanting a cartoon in their movie when it would have sold to no one. Like, I get it - you wanted an animated movie but the minute they announced a live action/CG feature, people had to have known this was coming. Even when I was on the Sega forums wayyy back in 2014, I tried to warn the fanbase..

The alterations are minor because these characters are already humanoid and have a fair deal of realistic texture to them already. Even so you'll notice a devotion to the basic shape and concept of the character and the energy they're meant to carry that's completely absent from Sonic's new look. 

To give you a better example of what I mean, compare Galactus in the older Marvel movies to Hela's design in Thor ragnarok. There's a basic respect for the source material in one that's absent in the other. 

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Eh, I would argue that Rocket Raccoon is a similar design to whatever Sonic will be, realistic AND accurate to the original. Seriously, that silhouette doesn't look bad to me anymore, I wouldn't watch it at first, then I realized those muscles are tiny so they don't bug me anymore, but I get why people hate it. The rest is fine. Admittely the legs poster is very awkward but it's still too little for me to judge.

This movie has been compared to Guardians of the Galaxy on top of that, obviously It'll never reach that level of awesomeness, but I sure can dream and hope that for Sonic.

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7 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

It's all about the type of story you want to tell. The type of story calls for a certain type of tone and atmosphere.

 

Sonic's regular design doesn't invalidate any of this. It'd be people's own choice to not get past Sonic's design in 3Depth, that's no change.

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8 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

It's all about the type of story you want to tell.

I don't buy this, sorry. We have Classic Sonic tackling serious stories (see: the comics pre-Adventure design, SatAM) and comedic (see: AoStH, the comics before they became a continuation of SatAM). We also have this for Modern, with serious stories in games like the Adventure titles, Unleashed, and if you really wanna count them, games like '06 and Forces. We have plenty of comedic stories too, with games like Colors, Lost World, Runners, etc.

I don't see how Sonic's design would make anyone take the stories more seriously, because at the end of the day, he's still a bipedal hedgehog that runs super fast, and that's pretty goddamn ridiculous no matter how much you tone up his legs.

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6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Because this is what people want Sonic to look like, right? It's not horrifying at all, right?

"Is Sonic that much different"-YES dude, fucking, YES, he is! Sonic isn't even remotely like any kind of actual living creature! He doesn't look like a human, he doesn't look like a human with a weird skin color and pointy ears, he doesn't look like an actual woodland creature, or even like most of the cartoon woodland creatures that walk upright and wear clothes and shit. Sonic's design is weird and abstract in a way unlike the examples you keep pulling up.

 

5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The alterations are minor because these characters are already humanoid and have a fair deal of realistic texture to them already. Even so you'll notice a devotion to the basic shape and concept of the character and the energy they're meant to carry that's completely absent from Sonic's new look. 

To give you a better example of what I mean, compare Galactus in the older Marvel movies to Hela's design in Thor ragnarok. There's a basic respect for the source material in one that's absent in the other. 

And that's exactly what his design is in the movie. Seriously, the silhouette of the character in the poster is INSTANTLY recognizable as 'Sonic the Hedgehog'. Any causal fan walks by that poster will easily be able to tell who it is. It's not like they literally made him some skater with a three poinged helmet or something. It's still easily distinguishable as the iconic and that's the most Important thing. What everybody is getting wrapped up in are the actual details of the design and like the aforementioned designs from Marvel - they are changed to better translate him to live action. Let's go over the changes that they made to blend Sonic into a somewhat biological/believable hypothetical possiblity 

 

- Thicker arms and legs. With actual muscle definition (like all living creatures)

 

- Blue Arms (take it or leave it)

 

- Trainers instead of the buckle/Michael Jackson shoes

 

- No visible gloves

 

You'd think they'd have made him look like this b725e82dd5255732892828ffcb7cbd09.jpg.441a400d7f990ef4b1b3d8dc0d34829f.jpg

with all of the hate. Now that is unrecognizable. But the problem is - the slightest change to Sonic's design would have garned backlash because people wanted him to look as cartoony as he does 

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7 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

I don't buy this, sorry. We have Classic Sonic tackling serious stories (see: the comics pre-Adventure design, SatAM) and comedic (see: AoStH, the comics before they became a continuation of SatAM). We also have this for Modern, with serious stories in games like the Adventure titles, Unleashed, and if you really wanna count them, games like '06 and Forces. We have plenty of comedic stories too, with games like Colors, Lost World, Runners, etc.

I don't see how Sonic's design would make anyone take the stories more seriously, because at the end of the day, he's still a bipedal hedgehog that runs super fast, and that's pretty goddamn ridiculous no matter how much you tone up his legs.

...All in a different format. Live action and animation are two COMPLETELY different mediums. What you can get away with in a highly stylized environment/world you can not get away with in the real world. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse would have been rated PG-13 had it not been animated. There are soo many intense moments in that movie. Comparing SatAM and Sonic Adventure to something like Avengers or Deadpool does not register for those reasons. Let's say you divorce SatAM from it's cartoony/stylized world and translate that story to the real world - it takes on an even DARKER tone because it applies to the real world. Sonic would have to be translated along with every other character 

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Just now, PeterPancake said:

...All in a different format. Live action and animation are two COMPLETELY different mediums. What you can get away with in a highly stylized environment/world you can not get away with in the real world. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse would have been rated PG-13 had it not been animated. There are soo many intense moments in that movie. Comparing SatAM and Sonic Adventure to something like Avengers or Deadpool does not register for those reasons. Let's say you divorce SatAM from it's cartoony/stylized world and translate that story to the real world - it takes on an even DARKER tone because it applies to the real world. Sonic would have to be translated along with every other character 

I don't follow your logic here. Sonic is still a cartoon in this movie, he's just a cartoon that's not nearly as pleasant to look at now.

And I call bullshit on not being able to get away with it in the real world. Who Framed Roger Rabbit did it perfectly fine. As is Detective Pikachu, but for some baffling reason, Sonic needs to be toned up and have his beedy little eyes with pupils pertruding off his face.

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2 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

...All in a different format. Live action and animation are two COMPLETELY different mediums. What you can get away with in a highly stylized environment/world you can not get away with in the real world. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse would have been rated PG-13 had it not been animated. There are soo many intense moments in that movie. Comparing SatAM and Sonic Adventure to something like Avengers or Deadpool does not register for those reasons. Let's say you divorce SatAM from it's cartoony/stylized world and translate that story to the real world - it takes on an even DARKER tone because it applies to the real world. Sonic would have to be translated along with every other character 

This is like saying something like NieR Automata would've automatically had a lower age rating had it been represented in something like pixel art. It's absurd and devalues the power of animation.

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7 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

This is like saying something like NieR Automata would've automatically had a lower age rating had it been represented in something like pixel art. It's absurd and devalues the power of animation.

I don't mean to discredit animation. Both live action and animation are wonderful formats to tell stories. But they are* different. And that's something that can't be glossed over 

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2 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

I don't mean to discredit animation. Both live action and animation are wonderful formats to tell stories. But they are* different. And that's something that can't be glossed over 

They're different, but that has nothing to do with the 'maturity' of one over the other. Maus may be a book with illustrated anthropomorphic mice, but that doesn't devalue its message, tone, and importance in the slightest.

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