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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)

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1 minute ago, Mega said:

What about studios like Pixar and Dreamworks? I'm p. sure those don't rely on mocap.

At the very least, Paramount should've stylized more instead of trying to keep Sonic as creepily human as possible.

Not sure about animated features but I know every major live action studio film uses motion capture for humanoid characters.

 

The face being the way it is so Schwartz could perform as Sonic

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But that's the problem. Sonic is a very cartoony, stylized character. His proportions, his face, everything is distinctly different. And while I get that they were trying to go for a "realistic" approach, the end result looks like a tiny human in a costume.

And maybe they shouldn't have kept the face that way? They could still use his voice, but it's obvious the mo-cap face being left so close to a human structure did NOT end well.

Hell, I'm pretty sure detective pikachu used some mocap, and his face looks infinitely more stylized and likable.

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I think they could have definitely went for something more stylized/carcaturized if they really wanted to (see my avatar). Reynolds does do mocap for Pikachu. But Miller was dead set on realism, he specifically didn't want him looking like a Pixar character... And well, now he has to pay the consequences. 

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54 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

I think they could have definitely went for something more stylized/carcaturized if they really wanted to (see my avatar). Reynolds does do mocap for Pikachu. But Miller was dead set on realism, he specifically didn't want him looking like a Pixar character... And well, now he has to pay the consequences. 

The difference is that Reynolds' lip-syncing is being transferred to a character that already was designed over two decades ago.  Both his motions and the design were taken into consideration.  And incidentally, even in 2D animation, it isn't rare for them to film the actors talking and draw the characters' mouths moving the same way, but they still have a unique design.

Sonic's mouth in those shed scenes doesn't even look motion captured and transferred to a model.  It looks like they rendered the model without a mouth and spliced in footage of a human mouth talking; all the more so because there even seem to be hints of a mustache.

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19 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Ben Schwartz disappointed me. He doesn't sound like a Sonic.

This post is all around fantastic and everyone should read it, but this point - this is one of the points I feel like a lot of people will disagree with, yet I agree with it fully. Ben's voice stuck out like a sore thumb to me because - like Ryan Reynolds in Detective Pikachu, it just sounds like Ben. Like literally - Ben with his normal speaking voice. When I hear him speak, I'm not hearing Sonic speak, it feels like I'm hearing Dewey from Ducktales speak. 

It's the same problem I have with his voice for Leo in Rise of the TMNT, it just feels so far removed from what Leo, or Sonic in this case usually sounds like, and it doesn't feel like a huge amount of effort is being made to make it it's own thing. It's not Ben himself, because I like him as Dewey, but I was hoping his voice would fit better. But the voice not fitting greatly, mixed with the awful design kind of makes it difficult for me to accept. 

It doesn't help that part of the joke in Detective Pikachu is Reynolds himself. Like, part of the joke is "here's Deadpool's voice coming out of a Pikachu" and it works because not only does Pikachu not have a defined voice (It's be different if Reynolds was playing himself playing Meowth for example, who does have a defined voice), but they make proper reference to the original voice, with one of the jokes being that everyone else hears Pikachu's normal cute "Pika Pika" while the main character hears Reynolds being a sarcastic dick.

Like here, there's no reason for Ben to play it so straight, other than obviously some attempt at star power. I'm disappointed too, because I really wanted to like him as Sonic's voice.

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

This post is all around fantastic and everyone should read it, but this point - this is one of the points I feel like a lot of people will disagree with, yet I agree with it fully. Ben's voice stuck out like a sore thumb to me because - like Ryan Reynolds in Detective Pikachu, it just sounds like Ben. Like literally - Ben with his normal speaking voice. When I hear him speak, I'm not hearing Sonic speak, it feels like I'm hearing Dewey from Ducktales speak. 

It's the same problem I have with his voice for Leo in Rise of the TMNT, it just feels so far removed from what Leo, or Sonic in this case usually sounds like, and it doesn't feel like a huge amount of effort is being made to make it it's own thing. It's not Ben himself, because I like him as Dewey, but I was hoping his voice would fit better. But the voice not fitting greatly, mixed with the awful design kind of makes it difficult for me to accept. 

It doesn't help that part of the joke in Detective Pikachu is Reynolds himself. Like, part of the joke is "here's Deadpool's voice coming out of a Pikachu" and it works because not only does Pikachu not have a defined voice (It's be different if Reynolds was playing himself playing Meowth for example, who does have a defined voice), but they make proper reference to the original voice, with one of the jokes being that everyone else hears Pikachu's normal cute "Pika Pika" while the main character hears Reynolds being a sarcastic dick.

Like here, there's no reason for Ben to play it so straight, other than obviously some attempt at star power. I'm disappointed too, because I really wanted to like him as Sonic's voice.

He’s even worse than RCS. And I gave the latter all the chances I could for him to improve. 

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Sonic 06 was not trashed for being in a more realistic world. Where in the world did you hear that. I still have the gaming magizines from back then with people excited for the game after the *360* demo and seeing the trailers. What people hated about 06 was it being a rushed mess, with more bugs than a home built in 1960 without slab and a story that was chopped to bits to met a deadline thanks to Sega trying to appease sony.

The thing is people who care know who sonic is. If you see a blue creature with spines and red shoes you more than likely know its sonic..........what color are the smurfs shoes.......That said so many people are trying to "fan edit" what they think looks good and many keep tilting into the actual video game model. I try to stress that the point of this film is sonic being in a REALISTIC world. He is not a video game character in this world. The shoe scene and opening show he is still trying to learn to control said speed. Where he came from we do not know yet. The traq scene that has also upset people can easily be written off as he is not use to slowing down things around him by moving fast enough yet on a moments notice like he does later in the film. Trailers are not hard to piece where events take place.  That would explain the shoes not adhearing to the video game look cause where are you going to find shoes like that unless from a commissioner on ebay. All that said his teeth and mouth are odd. If they can fix that in the next 5 months all will be ok. some keep saying 6 months. No they would need to be done in 5. No way the use November as a working month and then rush the film out the door as it will still need to be rated.

As for the real world setting its been a thing since 1999 with Adventure. Actually you know what its actually been a thing since the ova series with the city. I consider eggman much more a threat using a more weaponized tank and armored drones *still fitting in his use of robotics* in a real world setting than a ladybug on a wheel rolling through the streets. Ghost pepper wings are scarier than that.

Now if eggman is somehow dropped into sonics world by the end of the film I can see him using the animals to make rhino attack robots and other critters along with standard mechs to start trying to conquer the world in the sequel and the introduction of tails and possibly knuckles. With Metal being the main threat in that film.

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21 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Ben Schwartz disappointed me. He doesn't sound like a Sonic.

Unpopular and boring opinion to have, but after Ryan Drummond in Heroes, every Sonic voice actor was a disappointment for me. So Ben Schwartz is just continuing that tradition.

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Actually give me a movie based on this. Give everyone nightmares for years like i lived through. You think sonic is scary. pfft that monkey

 

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4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sonic 06 was not trashed for being in a more realistic world. Where in the world did you hear that. I still have the gaming magizines from back then with people excited for the game after the *360* demo and seeing the trailers. What people hated about 06 was it being a rushed mess, with more bugs than a home built in 1960 without slab and a story that was chopped to bits to met a deadline thanks to Sega trying to appease sony.

The thing is people who care know who sonic is. If you see a blue creature with spines and red shoes you more than likely know its sonic..........what color are the smurfs shoes.......That said so many people are trying to "fan edit" what they think looks good and many keep tilting into the actual video game model. I try to stress that the point of this film is sonic being in a REALISTIC world. He is not a video game character in this world. The shoe scene and opening show he is still trying to learn to control said speed. Where he came from we do not know yet. The traq scene that has also upset people can easily be written off as he is not use to slowing down things around him by moving fast enough yet on a moments notice like he does later in the film. Trailers are not hard to piece where events take place.  That would explain the shoes not adhearing to the video game look cause where are you going to find shoes like that unless from a commissioner on ebay. All that said his teeth and mouth are odd. If they can fix that in the next 5 months all will be ok. some keep saying 6 months. No they would need to be done in 5. No way the use November as a working month and then rush the film out the door as it will still need to be rated.

As for the real world setting its been a thing since 1999 with Adventure. Actually you know what its actually been a thing since the ova series with the city. I consider eggman much more a threat using a more weaponized tank and armored drones *still fitting in his use of robotics* in a real world setting than a ladybug on a wheel rolling through the streets. Ghost pepper wings are scarier than that.

Now if eggman is somehow dropped into sonics world by the end of the film I can see him using the animals to make rhino attack robots and other critters along with standard mechs to start trying to conquer the world in the sequel and the introduction of tails and possibly knuckles. With Metal being the main threat in that film.

Great post. I hope the sequel (if it happens) is more true to form. 

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16 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Unpopular and boring opinion to have

Unpopular and boring, eh? Mind being more constructive, or are you just doing a drive-by "ur wrong"?

Ben is playing his own voice straight. Sonic's voice has changed very frequently in his nearly 30 year existence, with Roger Craig Smith being the biggest departure. This is an even further departure, Sonic does not sound like a teenager. He sounds like an un-amused adult. His voice is simply too deep and deadpan.

EDIT: Good grammar is important. Thanks for adding that comma.

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2 minutes ago, PeterPancake said:

Great post. I hope the sequel (if it happens) is more true to form. 

Thanks. If it does I definitely see Eggman becoming more crazed by the end and if stuck in Sonics world all those ripe animals will only help build a empire in a blank slate all the faster.

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5 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Unpopular and boring, eh? Mind being more constructive, or are you just doing a drive-by "ur wrong"?

Ben is playing his own voice straight. Sonic's voice has changed very frequently in his nearly 30 year existence, with Roger Craig Smith being the biggest departure. This is an even further departure, Sonic does not sound like a teenager. He sounds like an un-amused adult. His voice is simply too deep and deadpan.

Dude, read his comment again. @Tarnish was talking about his OWN opinion.

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19 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sonic 06 was not trashed for being in a more realistic world. Where in the world did you hear that. I still have the gaming magizines from back then with people excited for the game after the *360* demo and seeing the trailers. What people hated about 06 was it being a rushed mess, with more bugs than a home built in 1960 without slab and a story that was chopped to bits to met a deadline thanks to Sega trying to appease sony.eat in that film.

Don't try to rewrite history, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. What you've said is common knowledge and did not bear repeating, aside from the "trying to please Sony" bit, that's a myth that needs to die. Sega rushed it to meet a holiday deadline and it's their own fault for not delaying the game, not Sony's or Microsoft's. This isn't the 2006 topic.

Let me repeat what I said:

Quote

 Sonic 2006 got thrashed for many reasons, and putting a cartoon character in a non-cartoony real world unironically is one of those reasons

Being jarringly put in a realistic world is one of the reasons people hate this game to this day.

 

10 minutes ago, Ruomarta said:

Dude, read his comment again. @Tarnish was talking about his OWN opinion.

He edited his post to fix his grammar after I had already commented. That was an honest misunderstanding, then.

 

EDIT: Deleted my response to Mr Pancakes because there's no point in engaging with them over this.

If you want to like this movie, then like it all you want.

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12 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I try to stress that the point of this film is sonic being in a REALISTIC world. He is not a video game character in this world.

You've correctly understood the point of the film, but not the point of the objections.  The major criticism of the film among Sonic fans is that this very premise is flawed.  "Sonic" and "realistic" are mutually exclusive.  Even when Sega started throwing guns and realistic humans into the games, the one thing they knew better than to mess with was Sonic's design...

This is just a theory, but I think the difference between the Sonic movie and Detective Pikachu is like the difference between Sonic '06 and Mario Odyssey.  In Detective Pikachu and Mario Odyssey, the conflict between "realistic" and "cartoony" - Ryan Reynolds's voice in Pikachu's mouth, a more realistic city with realistically-proportioned humans - is the point and the joke, and the contrast is played up to highlight the differences.  The Sonic movie and Sonic '06, on the other hand, either try to erase the contrast or just don't see it, respectively.  The people who've been working on Sonic literally don't understand why Sonic works.

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Basically, yes.

Putting Sonic in the real world is not the direction I would've taken, and it's not the direction it should ever go, and I cite Sonic 2006 as a video-game example as to why realistic humans and cartoony hedgehogs don't work aesthetically. You don't need to read reviews for this, it's basic human psychology. Mario Odyssey as FFWF references gets away with this because it's a play on the contrast. Sonic always plays it's "real world" antics straight, with Sonic Unleashed being the only one to properly realize that a cartoon hedgehog can only look good next to a human if the human is also a cartoon.

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12 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

He edited his post to fix his grammar after I had already commented. That was an honest misunderstanding, then.

My bad. By the time I was replying to you, his comment was still there.

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My friend wants to watch this film because she wants to know why I have an interest in Sonic.

I refuse to not watch this film together with her. This film, which includes a creature that pretends to be Sonic, isn’t the reason why I fell in love with the franchise. It’s frankly embarrassing. If I’m going to watch this film, it’ll have to be by myself or with my little niece.

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This film is far from embarrassing in showing to others. When the Sonic twitter page constantly does noting but poke fun of itself with memes constantly these days and invite people like Game Grumps who like making fun of the games a lot.

I think I hit my peak of letting people make me feel embarrassed with shadow the hedgehog. I was so pumped for that game. Especially a darker take on the serious back then in my early high school/i think middle school......what year was that. Regardless knowing they toned the game down to hit the e10 rating hurt. That plus i actually went to a midnight event at my mall to get the game. I was the only one there for it and most were there for a football title. The guy yelled out who is the person here for shadow the hedgehog. I was the only person getting it that night and he said to do not be ashamed if you like it get up here and get your game. Granted I was still embarrassed being a older teen getting this game but i was still happy. No.....no if you want to embrasses me show me photos of me the night I went to pick up duke nukeum forever balls of steel edition at a midnight event lol

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31 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

My friend wants to watch this film because she wants to know why I have an interest in Sonic.

How's a movie gonna help with that?

That doesn't make sense.

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34 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

My friend wants to watch this film because she wants to know why I have an interest in Sonic.

I refuse to not watch this film together with her. This film, which includes a creature that pretends to be Sonic, isn’t the reason why I fell in love with the franchise. It’s frankly embarrassing. If I’m going to watch this film, it’ll have to be by myself or with my little niece.

 

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

How's a movie gonna help with that?

That doesn't make sense.

If at least one of the reasons Hatsune is interested is because even when Sonic fails, it fails spectacularly, that makes some sense.  But if they're redesigning this, they might shift it to being a merely unremarkable failure.

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