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Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)

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As an origin story, this film seems ill-equipped to establish the characters as they are in the games.  Robotnik/Eggman is supposed to have motives beyond just wanting to stop Sonic; it's really Sonic who's supposed to try to stop him.  The backstory they wrote, with Sonic having convenient world-warping abilities and electrical powers that cause EMP blasts, rests on factors that aren't even in the games.  They're taking things out that are near and dear to the brand identity, and adding things in that make it something else entirely; something with so much weight as to potentially hold it back from becoming what people want.

Oh, and before anyone says something like "Adaptations that change things up are valid; just look at Into the Spider-verse", do bear in mind the real circumstances behind that.  Both in graphic novels and movies, the more zany takes on the mythology were added only after the core version was well-established.  Before the first Raimi movie came out, Spider-Man may have been a broadly identifiable cultural icon, but I'm guessing most people didn't know his origin story or much about his enemies.  We got that and the short-lived "Amazing" reboot to retell his origin; only after those did they try to go wild with things like Peni Parker and Spider-Ham.  You need to do a conservative version of the story in any medium before you can do a subversive version in the same medium; that may not be an objective truth, but it is the way that series actually happened.  

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18 hours ago, Blacklightning said:

Are you kidding me right now? Just look at them. They're barely alike.

  • Surprise!! => Sonic's fans hated Modern Sonic because green eyes and different blue shade. Everything else was pretty accurate. How so?
  • Beta Boom Sonic - "I like him" comments under the article. (he had completely different quills,  two eyes, completely clothed)
  • Boom Sonic - BURN IT! (Despite being like older Modern Sonic.)
  • Fans dress Sonic in clothes/dresses/skirts = AWESOME.
  • Sega gives Sonic simple scarf and sports tape used in the correct way (= adventure) = BURN IT!

And if your problem is human teeth, show me an official render where he doesn't have them. I tried to find one, and I think there is one. One where he had fangs, and I think it may be a recent one. I just can't find it now, or it was a fan render. But the question is then - Why so many of them show Sonic with either Mono-Tooth (cartoons, simplicity, and save-time mechanism) or human teeth base. The teeth base is more often connected with SA promo anime-art and Sonic X. Mono-tooth always meant human teeth placeholder.

Sonic_teeth.png.daf5513474feba23fd0d9e21a6b18ab0.png

These renders are from Sonic and Secret rings (detail) and the other is from Super Smash Brosh Brawl. The only hedgehog with visible fangs is Shadow and Werehog. Even Silver had a human-teeth base (Sonic Rivals). So it's not baseless to say Sonic has human-like teeth. I'll admit some tinkering could be done. And the saddest thing is when you want to bash this movie, you always go and use one certain scene. I soooo wonder which one it is...

And real hedgehog's teeth:

hedgehog.png.f41fe332ca92b652249e9cf60d3404fe.png

So yeah, human-style sure is a bad choice. I guess they should go with a lot of fangs.

I heard Sonic looked weird in Sonic 06 because he was too cartoony among real-life people. And the Movie isn't the Game. What works in games, doesn't (or may not) work in a movie. I'm sure there is a lot of Games' adapted into TV series where the game aspects are so heavy it makes little to no sense. The approach here is if Sonic was real, how he would look? I'm sure placing fur-like texture is "all that needs to be done".

Hey, wait! People draw Sonic as real hedgehog = Other fans: CUTE! Strange, isn't it? Isn't real hedgehog (two-eyed, no green eyes, no mono-tooh, no gloves, no red sneakers) SOOOOO FAR from Sonic's design?

To sum it up - You don't like it. Okay. Be civil about it. Don't go bashing it. See what is okay, and what not. Present your opinion in a civil way. Even the "so-called trash design" has some work behind it. I don't like Mario, and I don't go how ten-rated human-like he is. I let people enjoy him for what he is. Do the same 😉

PS. Sorry, if I sound aggressive. I tried not to ^_^;

18 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Oh come the fuck on. You don't have to choose between "change nothing" and "change everything every time forever". You can't just elevate "change" as some fundamental positive and use that to brush off any criticism of what the changes actually are.

Well, if the criticism would be less "Bleh - green eyes! Burn it!" or "Blue arms - YOU KILLED SONIC", I would think about Sonic's fandom "critique" in a more positive way. How's that a criticism? Criticisms about being civil and say what you like and dislike. If you like nothing, say it "I don't like how it looks" no "BURN IT!". But it may be just me, being polite and trying to remain polite no matter what.

And then seeing "USE THIS DESIGN! IT'S MUCH BETTER" and it's porno Sonic with F sized boobs or some other insulting design... So much for the feedback.

TSR teased the new mechanic - BAAAD shouted a large chunk of fanbase way before they had a chance to see it in the action.

It's sad asking on FB if TSR is a good game since you heard it's bad, and many comments start with "Ignore it. It's just fanbase acting toxic as usual.".

It seems to me more people call for "change nothing", so it suggests they don't want anything new at all. Some ask for new features like Sonic using guns, or a more serious story. Sega does their best and gets hatred - for listening to fans. Sweet.

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19 hours ago, Tarnish said:

You'll have to ask the creators why they thought using the source material, the thing the entire movie is supposedly based on, as Easters Eggs was a better choice than using the source material to it's fullest potential.

So, what would you like to see in the movie? Random Monitors with boosts? The badniks would be sweet, I'll admit that. Weirdly textured ground? Springs hidden in the grass so anybody could be shooted to their death/or vacation in a hospital? Loop de Loops nobody but Sonic can travel through? Speed boosters? I mean - what else was in the game? Many random animals that can talk? At least, in Comics they talked, not sure if in games.

I don't know, but hub worlds and human cities across the game looked ordinary but still pretty. I mean, you could easily find the inspiration in the real world. City Escape stage had decently looking town if I remember right. The grass in stages was green as in the real world, the water was blue, the clouds were white and so on.

How could any game exclusive item work in the real human world? I'm not sarcastic, I'm seriously curious.

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14 minutes ago, Witto150 said:

Surprise!! => Sonic's fans hated Modern Sonic because green eyes and different blue shade.

Was this really a thing back then? I never ran into anybody online who complained about this. It was such a minor change that it never bothered me. I only ever felt it gave him more of character to actually have colored irises instead of the bog-standard cartoon black eyes.

The Sonic Boom and this movie design especially however are a LOT more drastic changes. So obviously, feedback is gonna be a lot more vocal. If anything, this movie design feels way more like a parody, a deliberately ugly take on the character.

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17 hours ago, DreamSaturn said:

No, people like consistency. People didn't just like Mania because it was Classic Sonic, they liked it because 1) It was good 2) It builds off a formula that's proven to work. 

 

I haven't played Mania yet, but I have no doubt it is a good game.

Why is bringing something new seen as bad in Sonic? Sure, it may not be flawless, some bugs here and there, but it's something new to discover. Some new way to look at the universe.

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12 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

The movie is bad or the trailer is bad.  Whoever was in charge of this has very little grasp of what makes Sonic appealing to its core demographic, as evidenced by how we only get little glimpses of Robotnik looking like himself and never hear him called that in the trailer, and very little else of what's in the games.  I don't want to be told there are "Easter Eggs"; I want to be shown.

I think the trailer showed Easter Eggs, so it's not just told. Well, it may depends on what is Easter Egg to you. A blurry silhouette that resembles Mickey's head like in Zootopia poster? We can say it's not an easter egg, it can look like a mistake. So, I'm-waiting-checking-time posture from pixel games is not an Easter Egg?

Well, Sonic isn't called in the trailer too. I had no idea who that guy next to Robotnik is, do I hate the trailer for it? Does it make the movie bad? Don't think so.

Well, we know Joker from Batman wasn't always Joker-looking. So, is it bad for pre-Joker to be seen before turning Joker? I don't see it bad. So, Was Eggman/Robotnik always fat, funny clown? He had to look someway ten years ago, teen-like, kid-like... So why not with hair and more lean figure? You don't born totally bald and remain bald. Unless this is some DNA mutation that happened, I don't know.

9 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Robotnik/Eggman is supposed to have motives beyond just wanting to stop Sonic; it's really Sonic who's supposed to try to stop him.  The backstory they wrote, with Sonic having convenient world-warping abilities and electrical powers that cause EMP blasts, rests on factors that aren't even in the games.  

Well, some fans will argue "Dr. Eggman is just evil and that is fine! Stop with the backstory nonsense! He just needs to be 2D evil!". The warping ability is done by a ring that is based on rings that take you into a special zone, so it's no not-in-game item. So, because the factors aren't in the game they are "bad" or too far from the "truth"?

Doesn't Game Sonic have some run-at-the-speed-of-sound convenient speed? He just has it. I think the movie may try to explain or provide a spin on how and why Sonic can run so fast. It can be fun.

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45 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Was this really a thing back then? I never ran into anybody online who complained about this. It was such a minor change that it never bothered me. I only ever felt it gave him more of character to actually have colored irises instead of the bog-standard cartoon black eyes.

The Sonic Boom and this movie design especially however are a LOT more drastic changes. So obviously, feedback is gonna be a lot more vocal. If anything, this movie design feels way more like a parody, a deliberately ugly take on the character.

Tell me about it! I got into Sonic late in the game. Like 5 years ago, I guess. One user under my Positive Sonic Movie post said Modern Sonic was hated after introduction. I asked why, and green eyes and a different shade of blue was the answer. I find it very puzzling.

Why do you mean "A LOT" - Taller, blue arms, different shade of blue (perhaps?), a scarf that is barely visible (it can work in place of fluff people like on Shadow and Silver), and some sports tape - seems like cosmetic changes. In all honesty, when people complained about blue arms, I had to check Modern Sonic to see if he had them or not XD

Many people find this Movie Design cute, fluffy, and charming (we talk on Tumblr about it and have nice headcanons). The style itself is solid, may just use some cosmetic changes (bigger eyes, iris shape). It's funny how people seeing the pre-screening liked the movie in 7/10 cases and mentioned how Sonic looked different but similar too. If this feedback was positive, why would they consider changing the design to mirror games?

45 minutes ago, Myst said:

So Paramount is reaching out to fans to help with the redesign? I'm impressed.

 

Well, I hope it won't end up with 110% Games Rip-off. I mean, it's nice and all. But 100% Game Sonic in real-life would look too off.

And you know what... Even if it would be the case, I would still go watching it. To see with my own two eyes! To create my own opinion after seeing the movie in action. 

I wouldn't go bashing their decision! I wouldn't go downvoting their hard work. I wouldn't go attacking people who want to watch it. Unfortunately, the last point is what people hating this design just do. I saw it, and it's sad.

Also, this is worth the note. I deleted the name to be on the safe side. But this person is right. The 100% game design was "proven to look off" by the fans themselves 😉

Twitter_01.png.0c8469a616fe59ac08dd46ae6c3f2424.pngI

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1 hour ago, Witto150 said:

I haven't played Mania yet, but I have no doubt it is a good game.

Why is bringing something new seen as bad in Sonic? Sure, it may not be flawless, some bugs here and there, but it's something new to discover. Some new way to look at the universe.

I can only speak for myself, but bringing something new just for the sake of being new, while it going against everything previously established, is a stupid idea.

Just because it's unique doesn't make it good either.

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1 hour ago, Witto150 said:

So, what would you like to see in the movie? Random Monitors with boosts? The badniks would be sweet, I'll admit that. Weirdly textured ground? Springs hidden in the grass so anybody could be shooted to their death/or vacation in a hospital? Loop de Loops nobody but Sonic can travel through? Speed boosters? I mean - what else was in the game? Many random animals that can talk? At least, in Comics they talked, not sure if in games.

I don't know, but hub worlds and human cities across the game looked ordinary but still pretty. I mean, you could easily find the inspiration in the real world. City Escape stage had decently looking town if I remember right. The grass in stages was green as in the real world, the water was blue, the clouds were white and so on.

How could any game exclusive item work in the real human world? I'm not sarcastic, I'm seriously curious.

I'd like to see more characters than just Sonic and Eggman. At this point I'd settle for Big or Rouge, and I can't stand them normally.

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1 hour ago, Tarnish said:

I can only speak for myself, but bringing something new just for the sake of being new, while it going against everything previously established, is a stupid idea.

Just because it's unique doesn't make it good either.

While I agree at the last point, you can easily say it can mean the decision to bring Tails (new thing) was bad? If we want to be really nitpicking, any new element = booster, enemy, character and so on, could mean a bad thing. If the 1st game established Sonic Vs. Eggman, why to change it to Sonic + Tails Vs. Eggman?

What purpose Tails has in single player? From what I remember when trying the game, Tails was more like there for " an aesthetic purpose". I kinda thought he could save you once per level (or a few times at least) from falling into a bottomless pit. But no. And people often mentioned Tails got killed all the time when following Sonic (but hey, no AI is perfect) 🙂 You could play only as Sonic, or add Tails in co-op. But for the main game, he was "basically useless". Maybe you can play as Tails in some newest port, I dunno.

So, why adding co-op? Platformers were always single-player game, so wouldn't this be seen as straying from the established formula? Well, at least during that time I doubt it was a regular feature.

Do you have anything specific that "goes against everything already established" on mind? All I can think of now are wisps (only because people hate them for being wisps). The boost wisp is in my opinion quite handy and better. The original boost was to get rings = boost. So as long you got rings, you could boost, so even though the whole level. but with Wisp, you can't use rings to refill it. So getting the next wisp capsule is important if you want to boost. It may require better timing.

The other thing about boost is... you can ignore it. If you hate it, just don't boost. The game will remain the same, or not?

And I think Wispons are in Forces because normal weapons + Sonic is hated by fans. So, they changed the concept a bit. For me, wisps are quite handy in the game. They are a way to discover a new pathway. You can pick the one you like the most or that will help you to get the Red Star Ring 😉

Sorry, if I sound absurd or aggressive, but when you hear fans going "BURN IT" and "TSR is bad!" before the release, I can't help but be "absurd" and nitpicking too ^_^;

27 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I'd like to see more characters than just Sonic and Eggman. At this point I'd settle for Big or Rouge, and I can't stand them normally.

Well, but that goes against the premise and plot - in the first game where we had only Sonic and Eggman and everybody was fine with it. Because, nobody else existed, so nobody complained there aren't more hedgehogs to play with. Now we have wide cast and fans go...

  • Fans: We want more playable characters! Not just Sonic!
  • Comes Heroes.
  • Fans: So bad! We want to play as Sonic only!
  • Unleashed...
  • Fans: So bad! Are you stupid! The planet has gotten shattered and no Knuckles or Shadow in sight?! Not even Silver to complain to Sonic he again made a bad future?

I think you get the picture of how it goes in this fandom... It's really sad 😞

But hey, if the first movie does well, it means a chance to see the rest or part of the cast in CGI, not just 3D models for the game. Take Sonic X Season 3. If it wasn't for the support from fans, it would never exist. For me, season 3 was the better part of the anime. I also liked the game adaptations, but season 3 had a more complex story, and I liked that. Some original episodes were fine too, I liked the humor and puns 🙂

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32 minutes ago, Witto150 said:

 

Well, but that goes against the premise and plot - in the first game where we had only Sonic and Eggman and everybody was fine with it. 🙂

This isn't an adaptation of the first game, this is a vague prequel to it in an AU. And since they're not taking anything else from Sonic 1, why would that even matter? 

Your movie developers were so preoccupied with whether they could that they didn't think about whether or not they should.

While you definitely can answer questions nobody ever asked. (I really wanted to know where Sonic got his shoes at), maybe you shouldn't do that for the first big movie Sonic gets? Save the wacky expiriments for a direct to video special or something.

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5 hours ago, Witto150 said:

To sum it up - You don't like it. Okay. Be civil about it. Don't go bashing it. See what is okay, and what not. Present your opinion in a civil way. Even the "so-called trash design" has some work behind it. I don't like Mario, and I don't go how ten-rated human-like he is. I let people enjoy him for what he is. Do the same 😉

I'm going to continue bashing it because it's a bad design that should've never been greenlit.

And I don't care if work went into it, that's a given. You can put all the work in the world into a school project and still have it be terrible and get a well deserved F.

Effort =/= Quality

Quote

Why is bringing something new seen as bad in Sonic? Sure, it may not be flawless, some bugs here and there, but it's something new to discover. Some new way to look at the universe.

Just because it's new doesn't mean it's worthwhile. In fact, most "new" things Sonic has tried have been complete flops. If fans can tell from a few seconds that Sonic 4 plays nothing like the Classics, then I don't see how it's unreasonable for fans to deduce that something sucks based on a trailer that makes it look terrible, a plot synopsis, casting, leaked merch, and quite a lot more to work off of than what fans had for Sonic 4.

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5 hours ago, Witto150 said:

Well, if the criticism would be less "Bleh - green eyes! Burn it!" or "Blue arms - YOU KILLED SONIC", I would think about Sonic's fandom "critique" in a more positive way. How's that a criticism? Criticisms about being civil and say what you like and dislike. If you like nothing, say it "I don't like how it looks" no "BURN IT!". But it may be just me, being polite and trying to remain polite no matter what.

Tone policing doesn't make your argument any better, and trying to pull this "just be polite and respectful like me! uwu" attitude while deliberately misrepresenting the criticism against the movie as nothing but shrieking anger is transparently dishonest. There's plenty of reasoned, detailed criticism of Sonic's design and the movie in general, whether or not you've bothered to look for it and whether or not it's phrased as politely as you insist it be.

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29 minutes ago, Witto150 said:

Well, but that goes against the premise and plot - in the first game where we had only Sonic and Eggman and everybody was fine with it. Because, nobody else existed, so nobody complained there aren't more hedgehogs to play with. Now we have wide cast and fans go...

  • Fans: We want more playable characters! Not just Sonic!
  • Comes Heroes.
  • Fans: So bad! We want to play as Sonic only!
  • Unleashed...
  • Fans: So bad! Are you stupid! The planet has gotten shattered and no Knuckles or Shadow in sight?! Not even Silver to complain to Sonic he again made a bad future?

I think you get the picture of how it goes in this fandom... It's really sad 😞

Gee, it's almost like we aren't a hive mind! What a concept!

 

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2 hours ago, Witto150 said:
  • Fans: We want more playable characters! Not just Sonic!
  • Comes Heroes.🙂

Wow. They said that in response to the two previous games that both had a half dozen playable characters?

The answer is no, "they" didn't, because I was on this forum before Heroes came out and no one was saying that.

 

 

For that matter:

6 hours ago, Witto150 said:
  • Surprise!! => Sonic's fans hated Modern Sonic because green eyes and different blue shade. Everything else was pretty accurate. How so?

I was on this forum when GREEN EYES turned into a humongous self-hating fandom meme, too (perpetuated abroad by people writing for gaming websites who couldn't get their mouth off of Sonic 4's dick); and that also wasn't what was being said then either.

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5 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Just because it's unique doesn't make it good either.

 

2 hours ago, Witto150 said:

While I agree at the last point, you can easily say it can mean the decision to bring Tails (new thing) was bad? If we want to be really nitpicking, any new element = booster, enemy, character and so on, could mean a bad thing. If the 1st game established Sonic Vs. Eggman, why to change it to Sonic + Tails Vs. Eggman

I believe you're missing Tarnish's point: "New" isn't automatically good OR bad. It's just new. Every idea, good or bad, started once as 'new'.

The most important thing is quality, not trying to be original.

Tails was elegantly designs. His color design, character and powers fit and complement Sonic and his franchise.
Silver in comparison was attempt to cash on 'woo, new cool hedgehog' and new physics. I like him more than Tails , but obvioulsly no one really considered how telekinesis would work with speed platforming (long story short, it kinda doesn't).
And then there is Black Doom, who doesn't look like Sonic character, has terribly one-note personality and generic powers, motivations and everything else. But hey, in 2005 he was 'new', right?

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14 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I believe you're missing Tarnish's point: "New" isn't automatically good OR bad.

Yes, so we have to try it, to see how it works. So, each game brings something new to test the possibilities. That's why I said, "it could mean a bad thing". I thought it suggests it can be good or bad ^_^;

 

15 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

And then there is Black Doom, who doesn't look like Sonic character, has terribly one-note personality and generic powers, motivations and everything else. But hey, in 2005 he was 'new', right?

I thought Dr. Eggman is preferred to be 2D evil too? At least, that's what I got from some responses. And aren't BD's powers Chaos-based just like Shadow's? I mean, Shadow has BD's DNA so it makes sense if Shadow can teleport so BD or throw some Chaos balls and co. I just don't remember hearing/seeing Shadow'S powers being called generic. Or is the hive-mind generic idea?

So, how do you think BD should look to fit in?

 

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15 minutes ago, Witto150 said:

Yes, so we have to try it, to see how it works. So, each game brings something new to test the possibilities. That's why I said, "it could mean a bad thing". I thought it suggests it can be good or bad ^_^;

No we don't. Even just beyond this nearly 443 page threat, fans, non-fans, casual onlookers, the creators of Sonic, several people who work at or have worked at Sega, have stated loud and clear that it doesn't work and have given an extensive list of reasons why.

We don't owe them a chance. They're a company that's making a product that they have to convince us is worth our money, and they're failing to do so.

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