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Rey Skywalker-Ren

playing as Sonic friends....

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I want to put my opinion here because I don't know where the thread to put it in. I want to explain how I feel about playing as Sonic friends and why I perfer Sonic only games. (if this is bad spot, lock it)

I would love to play as the friends if they had their own style to go along with platforming or if they had their very own gameplay. My first game I got for Christmas was Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. That's how I got to know Sonic and all the other characters. And I got to play as them. Playing as them was not a bad feeling. Playing as Sonic was the best feeling and that's how he became my favorite Sonic character, part. When I played the other games after it and now Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 I started to have my doubts.

Like in Sonic Rivals, I hated playing as the friends because they all played the same! I loved Sonic but I hated how everyone else had the same skills like Sonic except Silver could fly and Knuckles could glide and climb (which I like about him). It was like playing as Tails.

In Sonic Adventure 2, I was bored playing as Shadow because he played the same as Sonic. I know he's supposed to be like a Sonic a little but in Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, he had his own homing attack called the "chaos attack" which was diffrent. And he can also throw spears at enemies. Sonic Adventure 2 was the only game where I loved to play as Tails. And he's my second favorite character. He has a style that said "Tails" and not Sonic with flying. In Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, he was boring and threw ring bombs.

Sonic Adventure had some good gameplays. I liked to play as Amy because she can run (she could be a little faster) but she didnt have to curl up in a ball or spindash to be fun. Her hammer was fun and I got to jump higher with it. And I love to hit the springs with the hammer. I also loved to play as Big because he was fun and different. Fishing was confusing at first but it got easy and I had alot of fun. He was my third favorite gameplay. I loved to play as E-102y because his shooting was fun and added alot to the game. Tails was boring he played the same like Sonic and Knuckles was good but treasure hunting was hard.

Sonic Heroes.... oh my. I started playing and I finished and I will review. I can say I hated the friends gameplay. Because everyone was the same!! Every speed character had a homing attack, Sonic's move! Even Amy and Espio did. Every flying character did the same thing, fly with others holding them. Power characters were only ones I liked. Because they powered different. These moves are okay for Team Sonic but all others need their own ways of flying and speeding attack. I liked how Espio turned invisible and Amy could float using her hammer and she couldnt wall jump. Gameplay was fun... when it was Team Sonic.

Sonic Rush.... another one because Blaze played just like Sonic with no special moves of her own. Yes she has fire powers and when she jumps she spins but it works the same like Sonic rolling in a ball. you kill the badnik instantly by jumping. So I became bored when I played as her but I loved her in Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 because she had moves of her own but I could still run but she was faster than Sonic and it's a no-no.

My point is that I think after Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and Sonic Adventure, playing as Sonic friends became boring because they were all the same. Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 had plays i thought were bad (Tails), ones I thought were okay (Amy) ones I thought were good (Knuckles, Rouge) and those that I loved (Sonic, Shadow, Omega, Silver, Blaze). Because those characters had different moves that worked well and goes with them. Sonic Adventure had bad (Tails), OK (Knuckles), Good (Amy, Big) and awesome (Sonic, E-102y).

Shadow the Hedgehog was its own game. Shadow played like Sonic but you can attack also using weapons and drive cars. So it was a good game.

Until they can handle different style, they should do Sonic only. Because games like Sonic World Adventure, the gameplay was perfect, even the warehog. If Knuckles could play like that, I would love to play as him even more. Sonic Colors was a game that handled powers ups good way and Sonic would do many moves and it works. Sonic Generations was the best. Classic Sonic was boring but he played that way in Sonic 2 so I cant say anything. And earning the homing attack was awesome and it made him FUN. Modern Sonic was perfect. Sonic 4 Episode 2 was my favorite because of how you can use Tails to help you. It was a favorite.

If they can do different and fun gameplays with Sonic only, why cant they do it with Sonic friends now?

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I think the problem is that when we play a Sonic game, we aren't interested in learning a different gameplay style for each character. If everyone has the same basic controls as Sonic, it's easier to understand. This doesn't necessarily mean everyone would have to play the same way though.

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I think the problem is that when we play a Sonic game, we aren't interested in learning a different gameplay style for each character. If everyone has the same basic controls as Sonic, it's easier to understand. This doesn't necessarily mean everyone would have to play the same way though.

 

In other words, game designers think we're idiots and want linear easy to learn games.

 

It feels like you have to play old games to get variety.

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Playing as other characters is nice when it's not just shoved upon you. I didn't like how you alternated between characters in Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic 2006 during the same campaign because it ruins the pace of the game. 

 

Other characters should offer something different while still keeping the pace of the game consistent. 

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In other words, game designers think we're idiots and want linear easy to learn games.

 

It feels like you have to play old games to get variety.

That isn't quite what I meant. Just look at the Advance trilogy, or S3&K. It's entirely possible to have variety without resorting to a genre roulette.

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I've said it before ad nauseam, and I'll say it again: the Sonic 3 & K formula was the perfect way to utilize playable characters in a Sonic game. Every character was unlockable from the start, they weren't mandatory to play as, thus you could play the game however you want, and they all focused on platforming, albeit with unique abilities (Tails with flight, Knuckles gliding). Sonic Advance continued with this, only they added Amy into the mix. It's quite simple really, 3 & K got it right, but 3D Sonic games always had trouble on utilizing playable characters other than Sonic correctly.

 

For instance, the Sonic Adventure series. I get that Adventure 1 wanted to have character exclusive stories to provide spotlight on them and add diversity to the game, but it honestly felt like genre roulette, mainly with Knuckles' treasure hunting, Gamma's shooting stages, and Big's fishing. Sonic is a series about platforming, so adding unnecessary gameplay gimmicks that have nothing to do with it whatsoever just piss me the hell off.

 

I think playable characters in the Sonic series have potential when they're utilized right, so when people say they never want to see "Sonic's shitty friends" ever show up in a playable role ever again, I naturally tend to get irritated by that.

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I mostly agree with Chaos Incarnate. All characters should share the same basic moves, like jumping and spindashing, but with their unique abilities, like Tails' flying, and maybe slightly different stats, like how Knuckles in 3&K can't run as fast as Sonic, but is stronger. 

 

I'm fine with, say, stuff like treasure hunting in SA1, because Knuckles was still just as acrobatic as Sonic and Tails (Knuckles sucks in SA2 though.). You can have a different objective with some characters, but make sure they feel like characters in a Sonic game.  But don't make it like Sonic Rivals, where every character feels the same, with the only difference between them being their brief special move.  A good example of how it should be done is the Sonic Advance series. Every character is fun to play as, because everyone can do the same basic things, but they still feel different from each-other.

 

Also, I don't think you should have to play as every character to get to the real final boss or anything, unless it's like Adventure, where the characters actually interacted with each-other, and got to tell the story through their perspective.

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It depends on the character, but I do think the three Sonic Advanced games pulled it off well- you could pick which character to play as (Well, you had to play as two in the third game and unlock them in the second but yeah) and even in Sonic adventure I loved playing as Tails but like 99% of the world, hated playing as Big. I think that Sonic's style of play should not be extremely deviates from or too linear- Knuckles getting pieces of the Master Emerald so many times, for example. Levels where you got o start to finish incorperating tails's ability to fly or Knuckles digging would be really great in my opinion.

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This has been a debate amongst us fans for a while as most of us know. Personally, I would like to see playable characters such as Tails, Knuckles and Amy to be included in some games, e.g. Tails in Lost World or Colours would have been very good but some games would be better with Sonic on his own such as Unleashed, Black Knight and Secret Rings. I enjoyed Sonic Heroes so I would be in favour of another game like that but I know I am one of the few that liked that game

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I think Sonic 06's way of handling alternate characters was best, particularly among the main three hedgehogs. It feels like the usual reskin angle taken to a more logical and deeper conclusion, with each character handling differently as appropriate for, well, different characters, and thus having challenges and level design unique onto themselves, but all still all housed within the same general game design and architecture as well as button allocation. Sonic doesn't run like Shadow who doesn't run like Silver. Their attacks aren't the same. Their level gimmicks aren't the same. But they're not as entirely divorced from each other as true genre roulette like the Werehog is. It's actually interesting. This is what I want from future Sonic games- characters and stages that are more specified and less generalized, as I feel the latter just waters down the choices you have. I mean, if I want to play as Sonic with extra abilities attached, I'll play Colors or Lost World.

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This is such a conflicting thing with people and it will always be one of the main debates around with Sonic I think. People are so conflicted as to weather we can let Sonic's friends be playable anymore and for different reasons.

 

Several people like the Sonic 3 style due to how each character had basic moves but with unique ones that allowed for alternate paths and access to items and such that aren't available to Sonic alone. I can see why this is appealing, since it keeps the same speed gameplay with most of the characters and there is very little change between them other than unique moves. This however then brings up the point of the game now having very little variety and if you dont like just doing the same thing over and over again, this style can get tedious to you.

 

You then have SA1's style of the roulette table where you can pick what genre you want to play as instead. This style of gameplay isn't going to have people be similar to each other that much and will offer you a lot more variety to your gameplay. The flip side to this is not everyone is all Sonic speedy and nothing but run run run run. This is going to turn off the people that seem to want nothing but running and no platforming and such and just want running. Also it will turn off the people that want it super simple and linear, which isn't me.

 

I do agree with what the person above said though that developers these days think players sometimes are stupid. If they think the people have to learn something, that is a bad element because people these days do tend to complain if they have to learn to do anything different at all. I hear it all the time of waaaah, I have to actually do something or think instead of just running this straight path and shooting the bad guys that right out right in front of me? Yeah, very annoying that games have become so linear like that when I prefer exploration normally.

 

Still, this is always going to be a big debate around here. Several people don't mind Sonic's friends and that they offer different gameplay elements sometimes, and other people are going to complain like mad that it isn't sonic and blind running everywhere. You can't win in this argument usually.

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I like having different friends to play as. Story wise, it gives the world more depth and is good for plots (when there is plots). Gameplay wise, I like having lots of different styles to choose from. Adventure is my favourite game because of this, you expected something different from each character.

 

I feel the games could benefit from something like this again (not suggesting a sonic adventure 3 because theres enough of those threads) but rather, knowing that no matter who you're going to choose to play as, it isn't going to be the same as another character in the game. And there's a large amount of them to choose from.

 

Making the characters all play the same and interchangeable with each other (looking at Heroes here) is not good for the game. It just isn't as fun in my opinion and doesn't do the characters justice.

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When I started to think about it, it's trickier.

 

I see people praising the S3K aproach, which I can see wy, but for me I strickly play as SonicXTails/Sonic alone, mainly because the other characters don't bring something that makes me want to play as them. Sure they have different abilities, stats, and Knuckles has a different pathway, but they don't have something unique that makes me want to play as them.

 

But then there's Sonic 06 when the other characters are so radically different, but play so bad you just don't want to play as them.

 

So here's my thing: Make them have different stats and abilities while not making them going too far from the initial playstyle (Looking at you, Big [and maybe Silver]) and the most important thing: Having them going through different stages. If I have to go through the same game but with just a different character, I don't go in (And looking at you, Sonic Heroes).

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I think Sonic 06's way of handling alternate characters was best, particularly among the main three hedgehogs. It feels like the usual reskin angle taken to a more logical and deeper conclusion, with each character handling differently as appropriate for, well, different characters, and thus having challenges and level design unique onto themselves, but all still all housed within the same general game design and architecture as well as button allocation. Sonic doesn't run like Shadow who doesn't run like Silver. Their attacks aren't the same. Their level gimmicks aren't the same. But they're not as entirely divorced from each other as true genre roulette like the Werehog is. It's actually interesting. This is what I want from future Sonic games- characters and stages that are more specified and less generalized, as I feel the latter just waters down the choices you have. I mean, if I want to play as Sonic with extra abilities attached, I'll play Colors or Lost World.

 

Maybe if Sonic Team weren't so afraid of '06 they'd go back to this, but with better gameplay, level design and controls.

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It really depends on what game I'm playing as to whether I think the other characters should be playable.

 

In Sonic Adventure, each of the characters had a different gameplay element. This changed from reaching the goal to treasure hunting to even fishing. Tails' gameplay felt similar to Sonic but the racing element added something new to his gameplay. Whereas in Sonic Heroes, with the possible exception of Team Chaotix, it really did feel like you were playing the same game several times. The only thing that changed was the difficulty.

 

Overall, if there is variety, then I'm all for multiple playable characters, but if the characters are just going to play similar to each other, then there is really no point to having multiple playable characters other than to pad out the story a bit.

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It really depends on what game I'm playing as to whether I think the other characters should be playable.

 

In Sonic Adventure, each of the characters had a different gameplay element. This changed from reaching the goal to treasure hunting to even fishing. Tails' gameplay felt similar to Sonic but the racing element added something new to his gameplay. Whereas in Sonic Heroes, with the possible exception of Team Chaotix, it really did feel like you were playing the same game several times. The only thing that changed was the difficulty.

 

Overall, if there is variety, then I'm all for multiple playable characters, but if the characters are just going to play similar to each other, then there is really no point to having multiple playable characters other than to pad out the story a bit.

In Sonic Heroes, everyone had their own quirks and different skills, EVERYONE. Even between Sonic and Shadow, Sonic had the Light Speed Attack and Shadow froze time. Espio can stay attached to walls for infinite while Sonic and Shadow fall after a few moments, and Amy can't Triangle Jump at all, instead Amy can use her Hammer as a Propeller to glide. Sonic and Shadow circle their opponents in spin-ball form to create a Blue/Black Tornado, Amy swings her Tornado Hammer to launch a swirling storm of hearts that zeroes in on opponents, and Espio uses Ninja Arts to activate a breeze that carries a swirl of leaves while simultaneously turning himself invisible. Sonic and Shadow use some sort of flying kick, Amy swings her Hammer, and Espio throws a giant Shuriken. Tails and Rouge throw Dummy Ring Bombs that detonate in an electrical blast after a moment, Cream uses her Chao Attack, and Charmy stings his opponents. Knuckles and Omega punch/swing there arms for the 1st 2 attacks, and Big and Vector shoot their Teammates (via Fishing Rod/Umbrella and Jaws). Knuckles 3rd combo attack is a punch to the ground that causes a Volcanic eruption at it's most powerful, Omega releases an arsenal of projectiles at his oppenents (while spinning his torso around), Big swings his lure around and around and around (the lure is also on Fire), and Vector spins around while spitting either Soundwaves (Music Notes), Fire, or Bubblegum Bubbles filled with fire. In the air, Knuckles and Omega launch their teammates at their opponents as Fire Balls (via Basketball-esque Fire Dunk and Arm Cannon Fire Launcher) and Big and Vector slam themselves downward (via Body Press and Hammer Down). 

 

The thing is that the gameplay is centered around the Team-based gameplay and Team attacks, so the differences aren't immediately recognized. 

 

It's like a reversal of Silver's design. Silver has the same body structure and stuff as Sonic and Shadow, but the differences that Silver has (Boots, gold bracelets, quill style) camouflages this fact. 

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The character switching is the point of the gimmick though (teamwork!), and in the end I don't think it's a bad idea on paper. I think it would be interesting to see the idea revamped where- instead of fighting enemies- the major focus of the game is on maintaining flow through a level by proper switching and utilization of a team mate's abilities while continuously moving. Give Tails more robust flight and Knuckles Yellow Drill's digging prowess, and make sure that your momentum is always maintained, and you'd essentially be controlling an all-terrain beast.

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That's sorta like the SegaSonic game, that game is purely about avoiding traps by maintaining momentum.

 

Very few enemies in the game that you actuallly fight, its traps to be avoided by running.

 

So I can see how a team based game playing to each of the characters' strengths could work well in the sense described above.

 

(I do quite like some of the other team based games of the past though.)

 

The yellow drill being akin to Knuckles' digging ability, and some other comments in the thread so far made me think of something else...

 

In the past some of the games feel like they have occasionally been created in a way that facilitates shoehorning different characters/gameplay mechanics into certain games, for the sake of it, rather than thinking whether or not another character or another type of mechanic would be more suited to the game. If that makes sense?

 

In terms of characters, as already mentioned, the Werehog gameplay, could have suited Knuckles.

 

I have no problem with the Werehog), but imagine if he was sped up (not to Sonic's speed, but a fair bit), given the ability to climb (sans stretchy arms) and glide, make the controls tighter (less slippy) and you'd have great Knuckles gameplay and it could be made to fit more in line with what many fans would expect from a Sonic game, particularly if the pace could be kept up during the stages.

 

Another thing, Fang/Nack is a popular character within the fanbase, but apparently is unlikely to come back because of Rouge? I'm sure that was stated somewhere. But it kinda begs the question, why was Rouge shoved in to replace Fang/Nack, when he would have worked within a similar context to her plot wise and could have has similar 'treasure hunting' goals (granted he lack the gliding/climbing ability, but my point is, his similar personality means he could have been utilized).

 

Shadow being created as a sort of Anti-Sonic, didn't seem entirely necessary either (granted he is a decent enough character, but his shoes could have already been filled by bringing back Metal Sonic sooner than when he was), so again in terms of plot/gameplay etc. there was already a character ready. And my main issue with shadow as a character is that he literally can do pretty much everything Sonic can, which takes away a bit from the main hero and that shouldn't be.

 

Now I agree Sonic 3&K got the gameplay pretty close to perfect, for making the characters feel somewhat different but keeping it about speedy platforming, but I think later games got it right by reducing the speed of other characters just enough so that their abilities didn't outshine Sonic's, because in S3&K Tails and Knuckles can run at exactly the same pace as Sonic AND can either fly or glide/climb - again this takes away from the main hero a bit.

 

Ohh and Tails/Rouge throwing bombs in Sonic '06 - surely bomb thowing would have been a perfect opportunity to utilize everyone's favourite explosive loving duck? :\ (missed opportunity there :( )

 

For the record I do like the newer characters - I just miss seeing some of the older ones being there too, whether they be main ones or supporting ones.

 

And I don't have a problem with different genres within a Sonic game myself, but can see why others might an agree if other characters are brought in with gameplay that is based around a significantly different genre (Big The Cat), then it should be optional for things such as story progression (but at the same time, there should be something to make it worthwhile playing through it for those who wan to - so that it isn't just tacked on lazily).

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... I miss the playable characters, and I never thought I would say this. I am usually the one who if I really wanted to play as my favorite character, I'd play Sonic 06. But I want to see those guys be playable. If they could make some badass alternate gameplays with Sonic, why can't they do it with everyone else?Or something like this game:


Sonic2_PinkEdition_V10_Title.png

(feel free to laugh, I know it's a girl game) I play it alot along with other hacks because it feels like I am playing a different game even though I'm playing the same one. Getting through zones is not the same and it's more of a challenge. And if I ever meet the creator of this hack, please make a Silver or Silver/Blaze hack! No throwing boxes.

Anyway, if people can do this and even make a boring game fun, why can't Sonic Team do it?

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Hacks can be fun if done right, but at the same time they aren't usually thinking about a profit like Sonic team is. Sonic Team and Sega are quite scared about taking risks, which is a shame, so they keep making these sonic only games when there is definitely a demand out there for Sonic friend stuff. Sonic Dash can show you that, in that people work so hard to unlock Sonic's friends in these games. It just depends how much demand there really is of course. It is out there, but it is worth tapping into overall.

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