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Awoo.

Thoughts on modern Knuckles?


Connor

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Dude, you know full and well what I was telling you, so quit acting like you don't know. It was not about how scared the animals were, that was never his motivation like you said it was. It was a background event that held absolutely no bearing to his motivations. Knuckles got Tacked on his own home and went after the culprit, that was his whole motive right there

You're focusing too much on that one aspect instead of looking at the point I was trying to make. If I removed the part about his motivation, would that make it better?

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You're focusing too much on that one aspect instead of looking at the point I was trying to make. If I removed the part about his motivation, would that make it better?

That's because I didn't care about the point you made.

Had you not said that was his motivation in the first place, I wouldn't have gotten into you over it and we wouldn't be having this conversation about it.

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That's bullshit. Chaos is more than just some ascended chao king! He is the original guardian of the Master Emerald (and by extension Angel Island), and nothing you say is going to convince me otherwise.

Proof. Evidence. Do you have any? Because you wanting it to be a certain way doesn't count, and isn't actually a valid argument.
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Proof. Evidence. Do you have any? Because you wanting it to be a certain way doesn't count, and isn't actually a valid argument.

I don't need to prove anything. It's my opinion, and there's nothing official that disproves it. After all, is there any evidence that Chaos doesn't give a damn about the Master Emerald, or that he isn't the island's guardian? No, there isn't. What I believe makes perfect sense, even if you don't agree with it.

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Just because you believe it doesn't mean it makes sense.

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No, it's the other way around. I believe it because it makes sense!

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I don't need to prove anything.

Actually, you really kinda do. What evidence do you have of Chaos even giving a hoot about the Emeralds to begin with before he lost his "children" on that fateful night, never mind actually being their guardians? I mean, I'm all for opinions, but I think they should be backed up by actual facts.

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I don't need to prove anything.

If you want to have an actual discussion, you do.

After all, is there any evidence that Chaos doesn't give a damn about the Master Emerald, or that he isn't the island's guardian?

He hasn't been shown to give a shit about the emerald being broken or in danger in spite of the several times it's happened. Likewise he's never been shown guarding the island. One would expect that someone who is the guardian of a thing would even once make an effort to guard said thing.
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Even more when said thing was used to seal him against his will. If Chaos was this deity with as much of or greater connection to said thing, you'd think he'd make a more active push to break out on his own before Eggman helped him:

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He hasn't been shown to give a shit about the emerald being broken or in danger in spite of the several times it's happened. Likewise he's never been shown guarding the island. One would expect that someone who is the guardian of a thing would even once make an effort to guard said thing.

Just because he isn't shown guarding the Master Emerald doesn't mean he isn't its guardian...

 

Even more when said thing was used to seal him against his will. If Chaos was this deity with as much of or greater connection to said thing, you'd think he'd make a more active push to break out on his own before Eggman helped him:

The Master Emerald is what made him a god in the first place, so I would assume that it has more power than he does.

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Just because it isn't shown doesn't mean he isn't its guardian...

It be easier to believe if it was shown, otherwise for all anyone knows he might as well not be.
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Just because he isn't shown guarding the Master Emerald doesn't mean he isn't its guardian...

Just because we haven't heard him speak doesn't mean he can't. Just because we haven't seen him drive a car doesn't mean he doesn't own one. Just because we haven't seen him be elected president doesn't mean he isn't the president. There's a near infinite number of things that haven't been shown to be false. That doesn't mean we're free to assume they're true.
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Here, I'll try to explain my logic a bit better. From Heroes onward, Knuckles has been spending most of his time on the surface. Based on what we know about Knuckles, we can assume he wouldn't do this unless he knew the Master Emerald was safe without him. Therefore, it's clear that someone other than Knuckles is guarding the emerald, otherwise it would get stolen every five minutes. Why do I believe that it's Chaos? Well, if he didn't guard the emerald in the past, he sure as hell guarded the temple it was kept in. Anyway, it's not like anyone else lives on Angel Island.

 

You don't have to agree with me, but you should at least realize that I'm not being completely nonsensical.

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Here, I'll try to explain my logic a bit better. From Heroes onward, Knuckles has been spending most of his time on the surface. Based on what we know about Knuckles, we can assume he wouldn't do this unless he knew the Master Emerald was safe without him. Therefore, it's clear that someone other than Knuckles is guarding the emerald, otherwise it would get stolen every five minutes. Why do I believe that it's Chaos? Well, if he didn't guard the emerald in the past, he sure as hell guarded the temple it was kept in. Anyway, it's not like anyone else lives on Angel Island.

 

You don't have to agree with me, but you should at least realize that I'm not being completely nonsensical.

 

This would only be true if it was outright said Chaos was guarding it in his absence, but nothing shown points to even that. Especially in Heroes when the Master Emerald is name dropped, and Rouge actively tries to go after it with Knuckles giving chase. If Chaos truly was guarding it, then Knuckles wouldn't have reacted in the first place.

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There's also the ending of Sonic Adventure to keep in mind -- there, Tikal and Chaos ascended to a higher plane of existence after Sonic beat the aggro out of the mutant Uberchao. Can't guard a hugeass gemerald when you're effectively gone, after all.

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This would only be true if it was outright said Chaos was guarding it in his absence, but nothing shown points to even that. Especially in Heroes when the Master Emerald is name dropped, and Rouge actively tries to go after it with Knuckles giving chase. If Chaos truly was guarding it, then Knuckles wouldn't have reacted in the first place.

But in that case, what's keeping the emerald safe? Knuckles isn't stupid, he knows what would happen if he just left it unattended!

 

There's also the ending of Sonic Adventure to keep in mind -- there, Tikal and Chaos ascended to a higher plane of existence after Sonic beat the aggro out of the mutant Uberchao. Can't guard a hugeass gemerald when you're effectively gone, after all.

I didn't see it as ascending to a higher plane of existence, and what about Sonic Battle?

1416.png

I guess I just imagined this fight, didn't I?

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But in that case, what's keeping the emerald safe? Knuckles isn't stupid, he knows what would happen if he just left it unattended!

 

That's what we've been saying. As far as we know, there really is nothing guarding it and we're led to believe Knuckles has effectively abandoned his post, this has been a recurring problem with the character since 2004. This is, of course, the result of Sonic Team not having any use of the Master Emerald, but still want Knuckles to appear in some capacity; so they've effectively abandoned it and Knuckles` relation to it has been ignored for the most part.

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I didn't see it as ascending to a higher plane of existence, and what about Sonic Battle?

1416.png

I guess I just imagined this fight, didn't I?

We're not even sure that's canon. And if it was, where the hell was Tikal when she could've been around to help too? This is just bringing more and more questions than you realize.

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That's what we've been saying. As far as we know, there really is nothing guarding it and we're led to believe Knuckles has effectively abandoned his post, this has been a recurring problem with the character since 2004. This is, of course, the result of Sonic Team not having any use of the Master Emerald, but still want Knuckles to appear in some capacity; so they've effectively abandoned it and Knuckles` relation to it has been ignored for the most part.

Well, at least it's better than the alternative. Imagine if they forced Knuckles to stay on Angel Island for the rest of his life! *shudder*

 

We're not even sure that's canon. And if it was, where the hell was Tikal when she could've been around to help too? This is just bringing more and more questions than you realize.

She's a ghost. What exactly would she have done?

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Well, at least it's better than the alternative. Imagine if they forced Knuckles to stay on Angel Island for the rest of his life! *shudder*

 

So I take it you're going back on everything you told me about not wanting to divorce Knuckles from this stuff, huh?

 

I'd rather that than have them make a mockery of his character if those were the only two choices.

She's a ghost. What exactly would she have done?

Are you shitting me? You mean she couldn't do anything like she did in SA1?

 

Here you use every excuse you can to justify having Chaos come back, but you refuse to apply it for another character for the same reasons when they ended on the same note in their debut? You flat out say that you didn't see it as neither Chaos nor Tikal ascending to a higher plane, only to turn around and say Tikal is a ghost and imply she couldn't do anything?

 

You're just not even trying. And here I thought you were more capable than this.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Well, at least it's better than the alternative. Imagine if they forced Knuckles to stay on Angel Island for the rest of his life! *shudder*

 

That's kind of the point of the character; he's alone guarding a mystical artifact that he himself doesn't know much about, but does so anyway out of respect for his lost heritage and so that power doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

 

Nobody is saying that he should never leave Angel Island at all, but Knuckles is not the type of character who would just go pal around with Sonic just because, its an extreme disservice to the character and his role.

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I'd rather that than have them make a mockery of his character if those were the only two choices.

Then it's a damn good thing those aren't the only choices, isn't it?

 

Are you shitting me? You mean she couldn't do anything like she did in SA1?

 

You use every excuse you can to justify having Chaos come back, but you refuse to apply it for another character for the same reasons?

I'm not saying Tikal doesn't still exist, but she's non-corporeal and a pacifist. How would that work in a game based around fighting?

 

You're just not even trying, are you?

Based on your responses, it would seem that I am very trying.

 

That's kind of the point of the character; he's alone guarding a mystical artifact that he himself doesn't know much about, but does so anyway out of respect for his lost heritage and so that power doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

 

Nobody is saying that he should never leave Angel Island at all, but Knuckles is not the type of character who would just go pal around with Sonic just because, its an extreme disservice to the character and his role.

But I'm sick of hearing people go on about how Knuckles needs to go back to guarding the Master Emerald! Why do people act like that's the only way to keep him from getting shoehorned into the games? I never cared about his role as a guardian anyway.

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Then it's a damn good thing those aren't the only choices, isn't it?

Doesn't seem that way.

 

 

I'm not saying Tikal doesn't still exist, but she's non-corporeal and a pacifist. How would that work in a game based around fighting?

 

You really can't think of anything ghost or spirit based to work in a game based around fighting? There's examples in series like Pokemon, Zelda, Mario, or Danny Phantom with ghosts and spirits in them, and they seem to have some success with the idea. So how are you not able to think of how it can work for Sonic?

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Doesn't seem that way.

What do you mean by that?

 

You really can't think of anything ghost based to work in a game based around fighting? There's examples in series like Pokemon, Zelda, Mario, or Danny Phantom with ghosts in them, and they seem to have some success with the idea. So how are you not able to think of how it can work for Sonic?

Now that you mention it, I could probably come up with something based on her moveset in SA2. But regardless, how does her absence from Sonic Battle discredit the simple fact that Chaos very much exists in the game?

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