The Shadow Topic

[Kuzu]

"One day, there was a fanboy named "Total Shadow" on the Sega Forums. He loved Shadow, he loved him a lot, he loved him so much that he would be all he would talk about on board and derail topics into pointless Shadow debates. The young fanboy felt Shadow should be more of a central figure in the series along with Sonic & Eggman. Obviously.....no one cared. But then one man, christened Shadic, decided he had enough and decided to come to the one sanctuary to end this argument, and thus the Shadow topic came into being"

Oh Shadow, you were once an interesting character, you brought an amount of depth to the series previously unknown and had an interesting character development culminating in your brave sacrifice. And then everything went downhill from there. You were brought back unceremoniously with little to no explanation aside from a one off comment, had amnesia, and suddenly became the most important figure in the series for some reason.

Shadow was no longer the king of popularity of the series, he was now divisive between the fans that felt he was severely overplayed at the price of the more established characters(including Sonic himself) and the fans that felt that his story arc was an interesting addition to the series and he should be more important because of it.

Why did all of this happen. Well, Shadow was popular, really popular. I mean not many new characters can say they were the second most popular character in their series 10 years into its run. Because Shadow was so popular however, Sega put all of their attention to him, to the neglect and subsequent Flanderization of most of the cast, in addition to Shadow going from an interesting character to the walking anime stereotype that he's remembered for today.

He's now neglected just like the rest of the cast, and only gets bit roles nowadays. Kinda sad for a character of his caliber huh. Shadow feels like a character where bit roles just don't seem right, but at the same time we don't want him to be a spotlight whore again do we? So how can we fix this?

First, let's see what Shadow has going for him now:

1. His character arc is over with, and now has established goals, protecting the planet albeit in his own way.

2. He's one of the protagonist's primary rivals as well as one of his greatest allies.

3. He works for the government along with Rouge(?)

4. In a series that's mainly Black & White in terms of morality, Shadow serves as the Grey area.

5. He has his own team, just like Sonic.

So how can we take these things to make Shadow an interesting character and important character, but at the same time respect everyone else` place in the series and not try to make Shadow seem more important or better than everyone else in the series.

[Johnny Boy]

Hm, well I think it would be good if sega brings in shadow if the current situation at hand requires him to be there. Also whenever sega does decide to bring Shadow into the picture, try to bring him in without bringing in a bunch of unneeded melodrama or having him constantly hog the spotlight.

Also bringing Shadow in the current games would be an excellent opportunity to see what the colors writers can do with him.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Dark Energon Johnny

[Vertekins]

Well for a start, never depict him again like he was depicted in ShTH. Really, the majority of the dislike Shadow gets is from his immature cursing that made him sound like a child who's learned a cuss word for the first time and thinks it's cool to overuse them and unintentionally funny "Badass" (Used loosely) moments like this;

If there's a problem with Shadow's utilization in the past 5 years or so, it's from him getting the most interaction with the main villain. It's true of '06 and it's true of Rivals and it resulted in him having the most influence on the story when naturally that's Sonic's place, you know, as the main protagonist? If he's going to be included in a prominent position in a future game, he shouldn't be stealing the main role from Sonic by interacting with the true threat so much.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Verte

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Let's kill him off and every other character that came after Sonic 2!

Okay, really. Shadow's in a bit of an awkward state because although he's free to show up whenever he please, usually his presence would mean something major is about to happen. Honestly, I'd like to use the character more casually like other characters, lightening up his attitude into more warmer territories, all while still having him be a bit anti-social and dickish at times.

He and Rouge can be used to explore a few interesting traits with GUN, and I've always wanted to see the two command a small strike team of soldiers for some reason because of that. He can show a bit of a duality where Sonic is a goof who wrecks Eggman's plans for the fun of it (and occassional seriousness), Shadow response with a bit more disproportionate response and blows Eggman's base up with the attitude of a stoic soldier.

And every now and then, just to lighten the mood with him, throw him into a few slapstick situations so we can laugh at the hijinks. Just because he's stoic doesn't mean he shouldn't have any comedy to him.

[Kuzu]

Not that I like the melodrama or anything, but I always felt Shadow's presence should signify some serious shizz is about to go down. He is one of the more serious characters in the series, and be used to signify a story that takes itself a bit more seriously. Not that he can't be funny either, he can have his comedic moments but his presence should still be taken with some sort of seriousness. Maybe Eggman's plans on have gotten more grand and serious and Shadow has to investigate, while Sonic is also planning on stopping him with the two occasionally clashing along the way. Maybe Shadow knows Eggman's motives and tries to be proactive about it, while Sonic just thinks its nothing more but another "World Domination scheme" and ruins Shadow's plans.

[Scar]

Shadow is an interesting one. I think for one thing, SEGA should do everything in their power to erase the events from Shadow's game (i.e fucking Black Doom and his army of shitheads) or at least do something to suggest that Black Doom was lying about all that shit and was trying to bluff an amnesiac Shadow into doing what he wanted.

I dunno, say that Black Doom had heard of the Ark from Deep Space (it would be adviseable to know about potential threats) and Project Shadow as a defense against his forces. As the Black Comet approached Planet S (before it had arrived) he spied in on Earth's satellites and communication and learned of the Arks repurposing into a Planet S destroying warhead and of "Project Shadow's" subsequent sacrifice and memory loss. Knowing that Shadow held the information required to access the Ark's wealth of power, he decided to play some mind games with the very suggestible Shadow (lets assume that the General/Commander never existed)

From then, play him as a serious, but sarcastic guy. He's mostly focused on the job, but he's not above making a joke or generally being humourous. Beit in a satirical/dark humour way, or through being a dead-pan-snarker....or a combination of the two. His appearances should be limited to when they're necessary. He only really shows up when whatever it is he's doing converges with Sonic. Say in Unleashed the whole world was blown to pieces, one could assume that Shadow was at Central City (or wherever there wasn't a Gaia gate) acting as security and solving problems in that area. When he does show up, he may have been tasked to pursue Eggman himself (rather than being Security) or act as back-up or co-operate with Sonic and Co. His appearances in the game he's in are significant, but in the Story (or at least Sonic's story) he doesn't need to be around all the time, just showing an acting involvement.

Whenever he's not around and there is a global problem, his position and such can be mentioned or referenced. Example:

"Eggman's planning something huge, he's sent forces to Central City, Adabat and Spagonia"

"That's annoying, we can't be in several places at once..."

"Don't worry, I got a message from Shadow; he and Rouge are in Central City and Omega's taking care of Spagonia"

" And Adabat?"

"I let the Chaotix know about the situation, they're headed there now"

"Good, 'means we can focus on Eggman"

OK, while that's not the greatest example of script-writing, being rather formulaic and predictable (Bear in mind, this exact line of dialogue need not be used in every game and it certainly isn't necessary when said characters are playing major roles in the plot), it sort of adds to the scale of the adventure, without necessarily involving the player visiting all those locations (world-building), moreover it at least allows us to know that other characters are still around and they aren't just sitting on their asses when there is a global threat.

Equally, if the plot is not global and is a localised occurance, somebody like Shadow (possibly Rouge and Omega too, but they could also be elsewhere) could pop in, saying that he's been asked to deal with Eggman directly or something.

.....Well, that ended up being more general than I had initially planned.....

But anyway, Shadow's character should be that of a jaded, wounded soldier who's gradually rebuilding his life after a tragedy (Because Shadow was sealed away, what happened 50 years ago, may feel like yesterday to him). He's not completely callous and cold, he's got a little sense of humour, despite being dead-pan at times. Moreover, he's a good person underneath the toughened exterior and sometimes questionable morality. He would be extremely loyal to Rouge, Omega and even Sonic in a rival kind of way (grudging respect or something like that)

Lastly, his position as some over-powered ultimate being of destruction should be erased. It should be clarified, at least in my opinion, that he's only called the "Ultimate Lifeform", not because he's almightily powerful and immortal and indestructible, but because he's ageless and immune to disease (after all he was created by Gerald in the hope of finding a cure for a previously uncurable condition). He's not a Deus Ex Umbra who cannot be killed and is most certainly not the most powerful character in the series (that should even be a factor at all, there should be no "Most powerful character" at all). He's just an ageless, disease-proof hedgehog with an innate affinity to Chaos Energy (having been created from it), nothing more or less. I don't like the idea of him having an extensive list of attacks, stick with Chaos Spear (and Lance in super form) and his ability to warp very short distances without a chaos emerald. Blast is siding a little too much with the "POWWEEEEEER" side of things.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Scar

[Kuzu]

Shadow is an interesting one. I think for one thing, SEGA should do everything in their power to erase the events from Shadow's game (i.e fucking Black Doom and his army of shitheads) or at least do something to suggest that Black Doom was lying about all that shit and was trying to bluff an amnesiac Shadow into doing what he wanted.

I dunno, say that Black Doom had heard of the Ark from Deep Space (it would be adviseable to know about potential threats) and Project Shadow as a defense against his forces. As the Black Comet approached Planet S (before it had arrived) he spied in on Earth's satellites and communication and learned of the Arks repurposing into a Planet S destroying warhead and of "Project Shadow's" subsequent sacrifice and memory loss. Knowing that Shadow held the information required to access the Ark's wealth of power, he decided to play some mind games with the very suggestible Shadow (lets assume that the General/Commander never existed)

Ok, I don't like how Shadow's story was handled either, but it happened, its over and done with. Bringing it back up will only open up old wounds, and remind people why they hated it to begin with. Its done let's focus on what we have now shall we.

Lastly, his position as some over-powered ultimate being of destruction should be erased. It should be clarified, at least in my opinion, that he's only called the "Ultimate Lifeform", not because he's almightily powerful and immortal and indestructible, but because he's ageless and immune to disease (after all he was created by Gerald in the hope of finding a cure for a previously uncurable condition). He's not a Deus Ex Umbra who cannot be killed and is most certainly not the most powerful character in the series (that should even be a factor at all, there should be no "Most powerful character" at all). He's just an ageless, disease-proof hedgehog with an innate affinity to Chaos Energy (having been created from it), nothing more or less. I don't like the idea of him having an extensive list of attacks, stick with Chaos Spear (and Lance in super form) and his ability to warp very short distances without a chaos emerald. Blast is siding a little too much with the "POWWEEEEEER" side of things.

Ok, there's nothing wrong with Shadow being powerful ok? Its how powerful he's portrayed is what's important. Considering he shares many of Sonic's abilities in addition to his own, he's bound to be force to be reckoned with within the series. I don't mind that he's a powerful character(He his Sonic's rival after all), I mind more in how weak he made other characters by comparison, everyone would always jobbed to Shadow just to show how powerful he is(especially in X), and that shit needs to stop. Shadow should have a decent win-lose ratio, and every challenge he faces should stand a decent chance against him without it being one sided. Obviously there's going to be a gap in power between the likes of Sonic, Shadow, and Knuckles compared to Team Rose, so expecting Shadow to be equal with everyone is impossible.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Chaos Warp]

Shadow is an interesting one. I think for one thing, SEGA should do everything in their power to erase the events from Shadow's game (i.e fucking Black Doom and his army of shitheads) or at least do something to suggest that Black Doom was lying about all that shit and was trying to bluff an amnesiac Shadow into doing what he wanted.

I dunno, say that Black Doom had heard of the Ark from Deep Space (it would be adviseable to know about potential threats) and Project Shadow as a defense against his forces. As the Black Comet approached Planet S (before it had arrived) he spied in on Earth's satellites and communication and learned of the Arks repurposing into a Planet S destroying warhead and of "Project Shadow's" subsequent sacrifice and memory loss. Knowing that Shadow held the information required to access the Ark's wealth of power, he decided to play some mind games with the very suggestible Shadow (lets assume that the General/Commander never existed)

From then, play him as a serious, but sarcastic guy. He's mostly focused on the job, but he's not above making a joke or generally being humourous. Beit in a satirical/dark humour way, or through being a dead-pan-snarker....or a combination of the two. His appearances should be limited to when they're necessary. He only really shows up when whatever it is he's doing converges with Sonic. Say in Unleashed the whole world was blown to pieces, one could assume that Shadow was at Central City (or wherever there wasn't a Gaia gate) acting as security and solving problems in that area. When he does show up, he may have been tasked to pursue Eggman himself (rather than being Security) or act as back-up or co-operate with Sonic and Co. His appearances in the game he's in are significant, but in the Story (or at least Sonic's story) he doesn't need to be around all the time, just showing an acting involvement.

Whenever he's not around and there is a global problem, his position and such can be mentioned or referenced. Example:

"Eggman's planning something huge, he's sent forces to Central City, Adabat and Spagonia"

"That's annoying, we can't be in several places at once..."

"Don't worry, I got a message from Shadow; he and Rouge are in Central City and Omega's taking care of Spagonia"

" And Adabat?"

"I let the Chaotix know about the situation, they're headed there now"

"Good, 'means we can focus on Eggman"

OK, while that's not the greatest example of script-writing, being rather formulaic and predictable (Bear in mind, this exact line of dialogue need not be used in every game and it certainly isn't necessary when said characters are playing major roles in the plot), it sort of adds to the scale of the adventure, without necessarily involving the player visiting all those locations (world-building), moreover it at least allows us to know that other characters are still around and they aren't just sitting on their asses when there is a global threat.

Equally, if the plot is not global and is a localised occurance, somebody like Shadow (possibly Rouge and Omega too, but they could also be elsewhere) could pop in, saying that he's been asked to deal with Eggman directly or something.

.....Well, that ended up being more general than I had initially planned.....

But anyway, Shadow's character should be that of a jaded, wounded soldier who's gradually rebuilding his life after a tragedy (Because Shadow was sealed away, what happened 50 years ago, may feel like yesterday to him). He's not completely callous and cold, he's got a little sense of humour, despite being dead-pan at times. Moreover, he's a good person underneath the toughened exterior and sometimes questionable morality. He would be extremely loyal to Rouge, Omega and even Sonic in a rival kind of way (grudging respect or something like that)

Lastly, his position as some over-powered ultimate being of destruction should be erased. It should be clarified, at least in my opinion, that he's only called the "Ultimate Lifeform", not because he's almightily powerful and immortal and indestructible, but because he's ageless and immune to disease (after all he was created by Gerald in the hope of finding a cure for a previously uncurable condition). He's not a Deus Ex Umbra who cannot be killed and is most certainly not the most powerful character in the series (that should even be a factor at all, there should be no "Most powerful character" at all). He's just an ageless, disease-proof hedgehog with an innate affinity to Chaos Energy (having been created from it), nothing more or less. I don't like the idea of him having an extensive list of attacks, stick with Chaos Spear (and Lance in super form) and his ability to warp very short distances without a chaos emerald. Blast is siding a little too much with the "POWWEEEEEER" side of things.

Basically this, although I don't mind Chaos Blast. I always figured that they could balance it be making it so he's basically so worn out he's unable to fight after doing it.

[Pawn]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is his arrogance. It was really nice to see in the Free Riders cutscenes that he openly fancies himself as unbeatable again. No worrying about what he's forgotten or staring into space with a fixed expression. Having said that I still think he should retain his more introverted state as opposed to Sonic's extroversion, so no mouthing off like Sonic in Colours or anything like that. Quick digs like 'You're not even good enough to be my fake' (but ideally better written and delivered) are great. It's one of the things that separated him from the other characters back in SA2, and I'd like to see more of it.

He would be extremely loyal to Rouge, Omega and even Sonic in a rival kind of way (grudging respect or something like that)

Edited February 21, 2012 by Lungo

[neezTHEhuman]

He should have stayed dead after SA2 but I guess we just have to live with him for now so put him in the All Stars games and Olympics.

[C.J]

One thing I would like to see if Shadow was to appear again is to see his relationship with Team dark again but to develop and grow like in Heroes and 06. This could prevent him from interacting with the main villian too much just to reintroduce him. He could explore and discover other incidents for himself with the help of Rouge and Omega (possibly GUN too) but he could also interact with other characters from time to time (not all and not with the main charcs too much) also to show his serious side but also sarcastic/funny/cocky side at times.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

He should have stayed dead after SA2 but I guess we just have to live with him for now so put him in the All Stars games and Olympics.

You do know that this isn't the topic for "Shadow should've stayed dead" remarks right? It was asking how to make him an interesting character than he is now, not if he should've stayed alive after SA2. And frankly, that's starting to be a dead horse nearly 10 years after they brought him back.

Edited February 21, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Komodin]

Well, I think he would certainly benefit from adopting the role of the Comically Serious deadpan snarker. It would give him something that would better jive with everyone else, you know.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Hm...

He would act somewhat like a soldier; he obeys commands from those who are higher up, or those who he has respect for. He is more about practicality and efficiency, which provides a counter to Sonic in a ways.

He is a cynic; while he is able to enjoy his life a little more after his arc ended, he still tends to look at things more negatively than the others, acting as a foil to usually optimistic characters like Sonic, Amy, and MAAAAAYBE Silver.

He is more about strategy than the others: for example, if he needs to infiltrate an area, he makes ure to remove anything that makes it easier to see him, such as searchlights and cameras, unlike Sonic or Knuckles, who basically barges in like steamroller.

For noticeable flaws in combat:

He is a leaky battery. He can release via Chaos Attacks a massive amount of power, but he is prone to run out of energy quickly.

He is a Glass Cannon; He can dish out powerful attacks, but due to not getting into melee range as often as Sonic or Knuckles, hits that would only slightly inconvenience them would be more painful to him.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Enigma2Me

[241]

You do know that this isn't the topic for "Shadow should've stayed dead" remarks right? It was asking how to make him an interesting character than he is now, not if he should've stayed alive after SA2. And frankly, that's starting to be a dead horse nearly 10 years after they brought him back.

I agree. Shadow was (and is) still alive when one of Eggman's robots saved him from falling to the Earth. So he reappears in Sonic Heroes. He would be dead if he's a true antagonist, but since he's now neutral, he won't be dead.

I have two things that would make Shadow important again: having his own sequel game (Shadow the Hedgehog 2) or having him as a playable character for mainstream Sonic games after Generations.

[Darth InVaders]

Doesn't Total Shadow have an account here too... inb4 he sees this

He's just an ageless, disease-proof hedgehog with an innate affinity to Chaos Energy (having been created from it), nothing more or less. I don't like the idea of him having an extensive list of attacks, stick with Chaos Spear (and Lance in super form) and his ability to warp very short distances without a chaos emerald. Blast is siding a little too much with the "POWWEEEEEER" side of things.

I agree with a good amount of your post, but you are incorrect in your final points... there is no evidence Shadow was created with Chaos Energy, and Shadow cannot use Chaos Control without an Emerald (outside of Archie) - he needs one to be at least close by just like everyone else; as I proved in this thread:

Edited February 21, 2012 by Darth InVaders

[KingMan]

I always thought the amnesia aspect of Shadow's story in Heroes and ShtH was kind of forced. Why didn't someone like Rouge simply tell him about his memories?

I would have liked to see what his life was like when he was still living with Maria and Gerald.

[Chaos Walker]

My only problem with Shadow is that he changed. His original personality is the one I fell in love with, and that Hedgehog, just like everyone says he should, died in Adventure 2. The thing parading around now is a different character, with a different personality. There was no restoration of memories followed by him moving on from the past. No, their version of moving on from the past was beating up an alien, and leaving it at that. Oh, what I'd have given to hear the line "So you remember everything? Welcome back Shadow." at the end of STH. Nope, they just kind of accepted the new guy. I really wish that HAD been an Android after all, as the new guy will never quite be Shadow to me.

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate the current Shadow. He's cool. He's just not... THE Shadow.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Chaos Walker

[Solkia]

Bigger Guns and more powers.

[Kuzu]

My only problem with Shadow is that he changed. His original personality is the one I fell in love with, and that Hedgehog, just like everyone says he should, died in Adventure 2. The thing parading around now is a different character, with a different personality. There was no restoration of memories followed by him moving on from the past. No, their version of moving on from the past was beating up an alien, and leaving it at that. Oh, what I'd have given to hear the line "So you remember everything? Welcome back Shadow." at the end of STH. Nope, they just kind of accepted the new guy. I really wish that HAD been an Android after all, as the new guy will never quite be Shadow to me.

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate the current Shadow. He's cool. He's just not... THE Shadow.

....Please tell me who is THE Shadow please, because it sounds you treat them as two different characters.

[Komodin]

....Please tell me who is THE Shadow please, because it sounds you treat them as two different characters.

Oh, he's that dude who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

[Kuzu]

Oh, he's that dude who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

Dohohohoho

[No more]

As an ex-Shadow fangirl I would like to see him more in the games. The problem is if he stayed dead then he would become another 'Mighty the Armadillo'.

SEGA didn't bring back Shadow and give him his own game for sh**ts and giggles, from what I remember reading it was some of the fans requested he came back and SEGA needed to experiment as gamer's tastes were evolving (e.g. FPS becoming more increasingly popular), they couldn't just give Sonic a gun as that would be suicide, so why not give it to a character who, out of all the available characters, was the most likely to be seen with such a weapon?

I could argue too about why Mephiles was more interested in Shadow rather than the others, but I could be typing all night (In a nutshell I think Shadow is one of the characters who are more easily manipulated, plus with the added bonus as one of the more powerful characters it would make far more sense for Mephiles, but I digress)

As for Shadow's roles in future games I would like to see as someone who has some influence over the story, but not just there 'because GUN said so'. Make him part of an interesting plot point SEGA, He still has quite some potential to be interesting.

Edited February 21, 2012 by iVYRAVE

[Kuzu]

As an ex-Shadow fangirl I would like to see him more in the games. The problem is if he stayed dead then he would become another 'Mighty the Armadillo'.

SEGA didn't bring back Shadow and give him his own game for sh**ts and giggles, from what I remember reading it was some of the fans requested he came back and SEGA needed to experiment as gamer's tastes were evolving (e.g. FPS becoming more increasingly popular), they couldn't just give Sonic a gun as that would be suicide, so why not give it to a character who, out of all the available characters, was the most likely to be seen with such a weapon?

I could argue too about why Mephiles was more interested in Shadow rather than the others, but I could be typing all night (In a nutshell I think Shadow is one of the characters who are more easily manipulated, plus with the added bonus as one of the more powerful characters it would make far more sense for Mephiles, but I digress)

As for Shadow's roles in future games I would like to see as someone who has some influence over the story, but not just there 'because GUN said so'. Make him part of an interesting plot point SEGA, He still has quite some potential to be interesting.

Like Verte said, Shadow had too much focus. It was fine in his game because the story was about him and finding his past, but in 06 its inexcusable, Shadow has more connection with the main villain(And by extension the whole plot) than Sonic himself does, whom doesn't even learn of Mephiles existence even after he's been defeated, Sonic literally had no relevance in a game with his name on it, there's a problem with that. Unless the plot is about Shadow, there's no reason why he should have even more focus than the main character in his own series. If Shadow truly needs that much focus and attention, then he should get his own series instead of stealing the spotlight away from the characters who deserve/need it(i.e. Sonic and his supporting cast).

[Indigo Rush]

Oh Shadow. You were once one of my favorite characters, but now... argh.

When people think of you, they think of... THIS.

I think Shadow should stay a freelance agent for GUN or some other important position. Maybe he can pull a "Mighty" and go around seeing the world in the meantime, since he never really got to experience it. I mean, wasn't that an important plot point for him in Sonic Adventure 2?

For his personality... it's kind of tough to place that. He played the whole egotistical and dark rival bit before his revelation near the end of SA2, turned into a more sympathetic hero at the end of that game, became the angsty anti-hero with a dark past during Heroes and his own game, and since then... he's simply been a side character who, when featured, acts like an egotistical tool and not much else.

I mean, look at how he talks and his overal attitude here:

Like... okay. I'm fine with that personality. No problems there. But he's been so inconsistent that I don't really know HOW he should act.

So... alright. Shadow can be an apathetic jerk, but also chivalrous when he's needed to be. I understand that he's left the whole Maria and ARK thing in the past, but... argh. Whatever. Just be a consistent anti-hero and I'm satisfied.

As for his actual abilities, a general affinity with Chaos abilities works just fine. Limited abilities without an emerald, more power when he does have one. Seems simple enough, right? Chaos spears, some teleportation abilities, something akin to the Cyan Laser powerup for the sake of a unique gameplay gimmick. Whatever. As long as he isn't simply a Sonic clone, I'm good.

And drop the fire-arms. Please.