The Shadow Topic

[Nepenthe]

That's my point, meaning there is pretty much no necessity to Shadow working for GUN.

[Sparky]

That's my point, meaning there is pretty much no necessity to Shadow working for GUN.

Working for G.U.N. would allow Shadow to constantly have a source of information all the time, among other things. Rouge might not be available at a given time when Shadow needs something that she/G.U.N. can offer. 

 

And really, working for G.U.N. also allows Shadow to still counter and rival Sonic since Sonic doesn't exactly follow the actual laws. Sonic's actions may indirectly oppose the government's actions, which would put Sonic and Shadow at odds. It's a good reason to have them as rivals instead of just Shadow wanting to prove his "superiority" over Sonic or something. 

 

In addition, I just want to point out that Shadow was even an "agent" in the Sonic Rivals series, since his involvement in the situations caused by Eggman Nega were because Doctor Eggman was the one to contact Shadow and ask for his assistance against the crazier doctor.

[Zaysho]

Archie Shadow had his respect for Maria Flanderized to such an unbelievably stupid degree that his future self made her an object of literal WORSHIP.

 

Bringing him up as an example to back up something about Game Shadow's leanings is about as credible as saying that, say, SatAM is a credible Sonic cartoon.

 

I love Game!Shadow for multiple reasons and personally wish that aspects of Archie!Shadow stay as far the hell away from him as possible.

 

As far as present Shadow goes, I don't see him that far off from Game!Shadow. The present Shadow in Archie feels more in line with what I'd expect from the character after putting his past behind him. And, yes, the Future version is ridiculous, but I didn't mention that at all, did I? The Future version was a silly attempt to make him a villain when Shadow's about as evil as a coconut. His relationship with Hope and his strong moral code and desire to do the right thing despite his orders (he forced Rouge to return the Sol Emerald to Blaze even though they were ordered to retrieve it), makes the present version a perfectly likable and interesting character. SEGA currently isn't giving us much to work with, other than making him a Vegeta expy like they did in Generations. I'm still waiting for him to make a proper return and have more of his personality in tact (loved his portrayal in Free Riders--look! he's not the angsty stereotype people make him out to be!--but, for all my defending Archie!Sonic, they do play with that annoying stereotype too much for my taste).

 

 

Well, the convenience argument is partly negated by the fact that you said yourself that Rouge can stand to get him any information he needs on her own, as well as offer him shelter and safety. It's also a completely wasted plot point because unlike the comic (I presume) or even Rouge's performance in SA2, GUN's orders have very little relevance on how Shadow acts throughout the games anyway, either because Sega doesn't care much to keep a consistent relationship between him and the agency or because the circumstances get so drastic and out-of-control that Shadow is nonetheless forced to break off contact anyway and act as he generally would without them. They're less of a convenience and more of an ironic factoid they threw in perhaps to downplay his rampant misanthropy. I don't see how they're all that efficient either if the Earth has more or less been saved time and time again by unemployed, undisciplined teenagers and children, so the question becomes: under the current circumstances of the games, what can GUN offer Shadow that Rouge herself cannot?

 

True. I only bring it up since it's, so far, the only justification I've seen for Shadow even running with the them in the first place (unless I missed something in the games). In all fairness, there isn't anything GUN can do better than Sonic and crew, especially since Sonic can rip apart entire bases all on his own if he felt it was necessary. Given that, Shadow could wipe out an entire city if he checked his morals at the door.

 

Rouge can provide everything he needs (as seen in Battle), but he obviously works with GUN for a reason. I like to think that, perhaps, GUN provides some kind of stability for him. He no longer has his baggage or ill-will toward humanity (gotta love how '06 handled this, and that's considering how lousy that game's story as a whole is). While he has his own sense of purpose independent of GUN, I don't see him to be quite as free-spirited as Sonic, certainly similar in some ways, but I don't think wandering the world and looking for adventure is really Shadow's thing. He's more interested in putting his skills to use for the sake of a greater good, and GUN probably allows him to do just that and don't complain when he ignores orders since his ends will still benefit them and the world in the end. This could have some interesting potential and even get Shadow his own rogue's gallery (I find it odd GUN ignores the ever-present threat of Eggman, though, but I guess they just let Sonic deal with him and stay out of his way)... but I put it on SEGA for not doing anything significant with him in recent years.

[Sparky]

The way I see things, Sonic and Shadow should remain as counters to each other. They should have the same "technical" goal, which is protecting the world and ensuring that everyone is happy and peaceful, but they should be enacting those goals in different, opposing means. 

 

As far as present Shadow goes, I don't see him that far off from Game!Shadow. The present Shadow in Archie feels more in line with what I'd expect from the character after putting his past behind him. And, yes, the Future version is ridiculous, but I didn't mention that at all, did I? The Future version was a silly attempt to make him a villain when Shadow's about as evil as a coconut. His relationship with Hope and his strong moral code and desire to do the right thing despite his orders (he forced Rouge to return the Sol Emerald to Blaze even though they were ordered to retrieve it), makes the present version a perfectly likable and interesting character. SEGA currently isn't giving us much to work with, other than making him a Vegeta expy like they did in Generations. I'm still waiting for him to make a proper return and have more of his personality in tact (loved his portrayal in Free Riders--look! he's not the angsty stereotype people make him out to be!--but, for all my defending Archie!Sonic, they do play with that annoying stereotype too much for my taste).

 

 

 

True. I only bring it up since it's, so far, the only justification I've seen for Shadow even running with the them in the first place (unless I missed something in the games). In all fairness, there isn't anything GUN can do better than Sonic and crew, especially since Sonic can rip apart entire bases all on his own if he felt it was necessary. Given that, Shadow could wipe out an entire city if he checked his morals at the door.

 

Rouge can provide everything he needs (as seen in Battle), but he obviously works with GUN for a reason. I like to think that, perhaps, GUN provides some kind of stability for him. He no longer has his baggage or ill-will toward humanity (gotta love how '06 handled this, and that's considering how lousy that game's story as a whole is). While he has his own sense of purpose independent of GUN, I don't see him to be quite as free-spirited as Sonic, certainly similar in some ways, but I don't think wandering the world and looking for adventure is really Shadow's thing. He's more interested in putting his skills to use for the sake of a greater good, and GUN probably allows him to do just that, which is why they don't complain about him ignoring their orders. This could have some interesting potential and even get Shadow his own rogue's gallery (I find it odd GUN ignores the ever-present threat of Eggman, though, but I guess they just let Sonic deal with him and stay out of his way)... but I put it on SEGA for not doing anything significant with him in recent years.

Basically what I'm thinking worded a bit better.

[Nepenthe]

Working for G.U.N. would allow Shadow to constantly have a source of information all the time, among other things. Rouge might not be available at a given time when Shadow needs something that she/G.U.N. can offer. 

 

And really, working for G.U.N. also allows Shadow to still counter and rival Sonic since Sonic doesn't exactly follow the actual laws. Sonic's actions may indirectly oppose the government's actions, which would put Sonic and Shadow at odds. It's a good reason to have them as rivals instead of just Shadow wanting to prove his "superiority" over Sonic or something. 

 

In addition, I just want to point out that Shadow was even an "agent" in the Sonic Rivals series, since his involvement in the situations caused by Eggman Nega were because Doctor Eggman was the one to contact Shadow and ask for his assistance against the crazier doctor.

 

I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to communicate more often than not considering the technology in the series as well as their close relationship. Regardless, being an agent doesn't mean you suddenly have access to everything your governing body does either. It means your job is to perform covert operations under the orders of a higher authority who use information and tools lower-level policing bodies don't have access to. Shadow being at GUN- especially with his straightforward, obedient attitude to his work- doesn't necessarily means he knows everything or even would be privy to everything as part of protocol. And I'd wager that protocol would be ironclad since we know from Sonic 06 that one of the possible timelines was that GUN would turn on him at a moment's notice (not even with any proof either; just out of sheer reactionary fear). That speaks of an extremely tenuous relationship that would be more understandable if he didn't play into at all, hence Rouge. Through her, he has access to as much information as would be necessary to carry out particular actions against Eggman due to her abilities as a spy without any of the baggage of being personally beholden to them or tangled up in their messes.

 

As for the rivalry, I don't particularly value it in a day and age where Sonic and Shadow's goals pretty much align perfectly. True that they may arrive at the end through different means, but the only way I would see those means bothering Sonic enough to oppose Shadow would be if- again- Shadow was acting in his own interests and not necessarily for GUN's. They're not going to tell him anything that would be morally abhorrent enough to warrant stopping him, such as leaving behind or killing civilians. Shadow would, at that point, be acting completely of his own free will, which once again makes his specific occupation irrelevant. And what laws does Sonic break that would warrant GUN interfering with him? The only time he has done this was when he was framed for a federal bank robbery, which of course he'd never do. The only illegal things Sonic does is probably running on the highway, which local law enforcement would deal with anyway.

 

And yes, Shadow was an agent in the Rivals games, entangled in a conflict that non-agents were already well embroiled in. Merely being an agent is not proper justification for the reasons of such.

 

True. I only bring it up since it's, so far, the only justification I've seen for Shadow even running with the them in the first place (unless I missed something in the games). In all fairness, there isn't anything GUN can do better than Sonic and crew, especially since Sonic can rip apart entire bases all on his own if he felt it was necessary. Given that, Shadow could wipe out an entire city if he checked his morals at the door.

 

Rouge can provide everything he needs (as seen in Battle), but he obviously works with GUN for a reason. I like to think that, perhaps, GUN provides some kind of stability for him. He no longer has his baggage or ill-will toward humanity (gotta love how '06 handled this, and that's considering how lousy that game's story as a whole is). While he has his own sense of purpose independent of GUN, I don't see him to be quite as free-spirited as Sonic, certainly similar in some ways, but I don't think wandering the world and looking for adventure is really Shadow's thing. He's more interested in putting his skills to use for the sake of a greater good, and GUN probably allows him to do just that, which is why they don't complain about him ignoring their orders. This could have some interesting potential and even get Shadow his own rogue's gallery (I find it odd GUN ignores the ever-present threat of Eggman, though, but I guess they just let Sonic deal with him and stay out of his way)... but I put it on SEGA for not doing anything significant with him in recent years.

 

As I said earlier, I don't see the occupations, hobbies, and lifestyles of Sonic's world as a black-and-white dichotomy between "nomad" and "GUN agent." Shadow need not be either; he could either be locally employed and locally stationed (which I feel would do him much greater justice in defining his interests and subsequently his character outside of ruminating in thought and blowing shit up) or, assuming his only choice was to be a nomad, to be one under his own terms. Sonic is nomadic insofar as he just runs around the planet exploring and having fun. Most likely he is not getting tangled up in the major conflicts of the various populations he runs across. No doubt he will help if he happens across someone in trouble, but he doesn't seek out injustices to end them like some caped crusader. What would be wrong if Shadow were this person; the guy who kept steadfast to his promises of protecting the planet by actually hopping in those trenches with rebels and freedom fighters without the influence of a governing body essentially telling him to? Why would this be an illegitimate path of his character just because it might mean he doesn't have a house?

 

Granted, the only reason I could see Shadow working for GUN that provides him something that he can't have without them is just the close contact with Rouge. If we're going to go with the "brother and sister" angle, I can see Shadow wanting to watch out for her and thus joining GUN for that reason. But everything else feels tenuous in the face of how the canon or his character actually works.

[Sparky]

Shadow's character, in my eyes, is always a Lawful X (at this point, Lawful Good). Even his signature move, CHAOS CONTROL, represents this. So it makes perfect sense for Shadow to work for a lawful, controlled force instead of being as chaotic as Sonic.

[Nepenthe]

I disagree completely; Shadow is not a particularly lawful character. He has the ethical propensity to subvert laws, authority, and good sportsmanship for his own ends (although his ends just so happen to positively-oriented), having stated as such that even if the world turns against him, he will essentially fight their laws for his own benefit. This is actually similar to Sonic, but the difference is that Sonic is just a more compassionate character and will not go to the lengths that Shadow will to get something done. So to me, wasting that bit of his characterization on making him an attack dog for an agency- much less the one that pretty much destroyed his life for a minute- makes little sense, and Sega seems to agree considering every time they've gone on to write him as an agent, GUN is written out of the picture.

[Sparky]

I disagree completely; Shadow is not a particularly lawful character. He has the ethical propensity to subvert laws, authority, and good sportsmanship for his own ends (although his ends just so happen to positively-oriented), having stated as such that even if the world turns against him, he will essentially fight their laws for his own benefit. This is actually similar to Sonic, but the difference is that Sonic is just a more compassionate character and will not go to the lengths that Shadow will to get something done. So to me, wasting that bit of his characterization on making him an attack dog for an agency- much less the one that pretty much destroyed his life for a minute- makes little sense, and Sega seems to agree considering every time they've gone on to write him as an agent, GUN is written out of the picture.

I don't really understand why Shadow shouldn't be working for G.U.N. because they were the reason behind Maria's death and such. That was 50 years ago, and the current Commander of GUN seems to have originally thought that Shadow was the cause of Maria's death, so Shadow has no reason to oppose them now since they seem to have Good intentions now and basically align with his goals. 

 

Shadow working for G.U.N. doesn't make him their lap-dog. But working for GUN is a controlled environment with the right resources and stuff that Shadow would use, and in my viewpoint, G.U.N.'s direct involvement with his past such as the deaths of Gerald and Maria, and basically being a reason behind Shadow's creation as a whole is a PERFECT reason for Shadow to work for them. Especially since they were introduced into the series along with Shadow, Chaos Control, Rouge, and everything else related directly to Shadow. So it makes sense to tie everything together and have Shadow working alongside Rouge for the Government.

 

And how is Shadow NOT a Lawful character? 

[Kuzu]

The reason people feel Shadow being a GUN agent doesn't work is because the games never provided an adequate reason for his partnership with them. Aside from a throwaway line in Shadow's game, there's no evidence to support why Shadow would ever join them in the first place, you can make up your own little interpretations all you want, but they're just that, interpretations, as in not factual and just fanon.  If you ignore that, then Shadow being with them doesn't really offer him anything more than if he wasn't. In 06, the only orders GUN give him is to rescue Rouge, afterwards he basically is acting on his own accord and GUN has no influence over his actions. 

 

 

So yea, Shadow being a GUN agent is superfluous to his entire character and motivation, because he acts no differently than he if weren't apart of them. Archie is a bit better because they gave him some Maria look alike as a reason, but the games don't...so yea.

[Nepenthe]

I don't really understand why Shadow shouldn't be working for G.U.N. because they were the reason behind Maria's death and such. That was 50 years ago, and the current Commander of GUN seems to have originally thought that Shadow was the cause of Maria's death, so Shadow has no reason to oppose them now since they seem to have Good intentions now and basically align with his goals. 

 

Shadow working for G.U.N. doesn't make him their lap-dog. But working for GUN is a controlled environment with the right resources and stuff that Shadow would use, and in my viewpoint, G.U.N.'s direct involvement with his past such as the deaths of Gerald and Maria, and basically being a reason behind Shadow's creation as a whole is a PERFECT reason for Shadow to work for them. Especially since they were introduced into the series along with Shadow, Chaos Control, Rouge, and everything else related directly to Shadow. So it makes sense to tie everything together and have Shadow working alongside Rouge for the Government.

 

And how is Shadow NOT a Lawful character? 

 

If an agency of some sort basically did the same thing to me as they did to Shadow, I would never work for them without serious reparations being paid, regardless of how long ago it was. I'm talking about people who are still living that were directly involved in the event being thrown under a concrete jail forever, financial compensation for the rest of my life, and a personal sexual escort to follow me wherever I went, and even then working for them would be a stretch. Them changing their tune under new leadership like some sleazy politician wouldn't cut it because that is not personal atonement, and it especially wouldn't cut it if I at least wasn't assured that there was protocol in place to prevent such a disastrous event from happening again, and there isn't. Again, Sonic 06 made it clear that GUN would turn on Shadow should things get particularly haywire even without proof that he was responsible for anything. After Omega corroborated Mephiles' story, Shadow should've thrown away his badge right then and there. Hence why it doesn't make much sense; GUN being introduced in the same game Shadow was is also irrelevant. So was Maria but they're not going to bring her back to life. GUN doesn't deserve any respect in that regard.

 

And Shadow isn't a lawful character because he willingly subverts both federal laws and basic moral lines more classical heroes like Sonic and Tails wouldn't cross to achieve his goals. He's robbed banks, blown up places, and has shown considerable apathy to the lives of other human beings suffering right in front of him. Again, even he's stated as such that he will fight against whatever the world throws at him if he assumes that they would go after him. If anything, you're the one who should be putting forth this argument that Shadow somehow tows the line of legality and morality for everything he does.

[Tornado]

Well you're an outlier, because there are many people will claim she's more needed by comparison to Shadow.

The problem is that then you need to actually justify it. What value does Amy provide, particularly immediate-post-Adventure 2 Amy, one of the most atrociously written characters in the entire series, besides being an old character? Yeah, people "like" her, but people "like" Shadow too. It's not really an argument explaining why she's needed; so it also doesn't work as an argument comparing her to Shadow to say they are both needed.

 

Archie Shadow had his respect for Maria Flanderized to such an unbelievably stupid degree that his future self made her an object of literal WORSHIP.

 

 

The above image is swear-to-god not edited in any way.

 

Bringing him up as an example to back up something about Game Shadow's leanings is about as credible as saying that, say, SatAM is a credible Sonic cartoon.

 

I love Game!Shadow for multiple reasons and personally wish that aspects of Archie!Shadow stay as far the hell away from him as possible.

I like how this post was completely related with his point and wasn't at all just another excuse to take a potshot at Archie.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The problem is that then you need to actually justify it. What value does Amy provide, particularly immediate-post-Adventure 2 Amy, one of the most atrociously written characters in the entire series, besides being an old character? Yeah, people "like" her, but people "like" Shadow too. It's not really an argument explaining why she's needed; so it also doesn't work as an argument comparing her to Shadow to say they are both needed.

But that isn't really what I was arguing, it was more to draw out an explanation over what makes a character like these needed or not to be around. I used Amy because I wanted to hear what excuse they had for her since she's given a bigger pass than Shadow despite hardly contributing much nowadays. You know I'm of the opinion that the only characters truly "needed" are the protagonist and antagonist with everyone else as secondaries (or in the trash, I'm not above extremes in this case);it's easy to make a justification for others to be involved, but another to claim whether they're needed or not.

[Vertekins]

I like how this post was completely related with his point and wasn't at all just another excuse to take a potshot at Archie.

 

You mean one very good example as to why I think that Game!Shadow and Archie!Shadow are not conciliable as characters regarding outlook or the characterization that backs-up a character's actions is a potshot?

 

I could go on about how Game!Shadow no longer has his mind fixated on Maria and has moved-on and how he doesn't need to backing of an organization to accomplish what he wants or to fulfill Maria's wishes to protect mankind despite his general dislike towards it because he could accomplish that without them even in '06. Which is badly written anyway but then Shadow is arguably the most competent character in that game who often took matters into his own hands without GUN dictating his mission all of the time.

 

I like it when Shadow is portrayed as a character who either acts out of his own motivation only and who has the personal motivation to go by his own dictates rather than those of others. Being a GUN agent never sat well with me personally.

 

But anyway, I can't be arsed to look through 12 pages of topic to see if I've elaborated on my thoughts about Shadzy so I'll do so here.

 

He's one of my favorite Sonic characters which might surprise some people. Indeed, one of my closest friends expressed shock at the 'revelation' that I was a Shadow fan when I had voiced contempt before. Which was contempt focused squarely on the incompetent way he had been written and not towards the character as a whole. One of my biggest Sonic-related pet peeves is the often silly way that he's been scapegoated for many of this series' issues that he as a character is not even responsible for. Or how his relationship with Maria and reaction to her fate is blown out of all proportion by Archie and the fandom.

 

I find it a bit intriguing how you can see somewhat of a parallel between Sonic and Shadow in that he was protective and brotherly towards Maria like Sonic is towards Tails. This is... fairly interesting;

 

 

 

I think the only games in which his portrayals truly sucked were in Gens and Chronicles, being a extremely boring cheerleader in the former and a complete failure at being an unsocial lone wolf who was ridiculously obsessed with Omega in the latter. His portrayal in his own game is hard to get an absolute precise read-on due to the wildly varying story pathways but I suppose his determination to put an end to Doomy and finally put the past behind him was...commendable. And I'll give '06 one of it's very few dues in that it portrayed him quite well.

 

So yeah, I like Shadow a lot. He's just can't shunt Sonic out of his place in my heart.

[Tornado]

You mean one very good example as to why I think that Game!Shadow and Archie!Shadow are not conciliable as characters regarding outlook or the characterization that backs-up a character's actions is a potshot?

 

Oh please. Not only did you completely ignore his actual points to instead bring up a specific instance of the character in the comic that suited your argument in an attempt to dismiss his opinion entirely; but you also felt fit to shove in this little chestnut at the end:

 

about as credible as saying that, say, SatAM is a credible Sonic cartoon.

 

Which has nothing to do with anything, but fits the typical pattern for how you respond whenever anyone says they like some aspect about Archie that it's not a stretch to guess why you brought it up. The only surprising thing (shocking even) about your original post was that you didn't immediately also complain about Sonic Chronicles at the same time; even though a thread talking about Shadow's character would actually be a really good one to do so.

[Kuzu]

But that isn't really what I was arguing, it was more to draw out an explanation over what makes a character like these needed or not to be around. I used Amy because I wanted to hear what excuse they had for her since she's given a bigger pass than Shadow despite hardly contributing much nowadays. You know I'm of the opinion that the only characters truly "needed" are the protagonist and antagonist with everyone else as secondaries (or in the trash, I'm not above extremes in this case);it's easy to make a justification for others to be involved, but another to claim whether they're needed or not.

 

Characters are needed in accordance to the plot, there's really nothing deep to understand about this.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Characters are needed in accordance to the plot, there's really nothing deep to understand about this.

So then, tell that to the people who insist on asking why a specific character is needed, not me. I say you only need a protagonist and antagonist because that is one of the bare minimums for a plot to get going.

[Dejimon11]

Archie Shadow had his respect for Maria Flanderized to such an unbelievably stupid degree that his future self made her an object of literal WORSHIP.

 

 

The above image is swear-to-god not edited in any way.

 

Bringing him up as an example to back up something about Game Shadow's leanings is about as credible as saying that, say, SatAM is a credible Sonic cartoon.

 

I love Game!Shadow for multiple reasons and personally wish that aspects of Archie!Shadow stay as far the hell away from him as possible.

I have a question. Was that picture from the mobius 25 years later arc? Aka the currupted bad future where literally nothing made sense(implying the concept made sense to begin)

[Soniman]

I have a question. Was that picture from the mobius 25 years later arc? Aka the currupted bad future where literally nothing made sense(implying the concept made sense to begin)

 

Yes actually, which is why I'm baffled at how a elsewords-esque alternate evil interpretation of the character can be seen as an actual viable citation to use for the canon/mainstream Archie version of Shadow who acts nothing like that?

 

Archie Shadow actually does more that brood and cross his arms all the time, he has actual emotions, has a strong sense of loyalty and actually cracks a joke, lightens up every now and then, and bonds with his team mates. Something I haven't seen game Shadow do in…well…ever actually. So the idea that he's better when there's currently barley anything to his character is something that I can't agree with.

 

Really, I only think Shadow was done any justice in SA2. Where he had an actual character arc. In Heroes he was a boring pseudo-robot who took orders from Rouge, I don't think I have to mention his title game, in 06 he actually got shit done but didn't have much in the way of personality, and he was then delegated to one note small fry character.

[Wraith]

I have to say, Archie Shadow(or at least the one from the newer archie comics) is probably one of the few characters I enjoyed over their game variant, even if I'm not very fond of Archie as a whole. Game Shadow really has been handled rather shoddily since his debut, which lead to me flat out disliking the character for some time.

[Vertekins]

I have a question. Was that picture from the mobius 25 years later arc? Aka the currupted bad future where literally nothing made sense(implying the concept made sense to begin)

 

Yes.

 

The fallacy used to characterize Shadow like this and put him into the position of king was that he was never influenced by Sonic in that timeline to become a better person. In this timeline, Shadow deposed Robotnik and dominated Mobius in order to bring about his own idea of harmony but as he was never influenced by Sonic (Which is inherently bull anyway but I'll get to that in a bit), he turns out to be brutal to the point that Sally 'marries' him in order to tame his attitude in the hopes of making his regime less harsh to the citizens.

 

The problem here is that not only is this a huge mishandling of Shadow's attitude even before he was 'set straight', it wasn't Sonic's influence that caused him to have a change in heart. It was Amy's. So not only does the plot point shoot itself in the foot regarding it's premise but it's fundamentally flawed if Shadow's original change in attitude was due to Amy and wasn't a result of Sonic specifically altering the timeline. The "Maria deification" is just a complete exaggeration of the regard in which Shadow holds Maria in order to misguidedly give his reasoning for his regime weight.

[Dejimon11]

Yes.

That's all I needed to know

 

The fallacy used to characterize Shadow like this and put him into the position of king was that he was never influenced by Sonic in that timeline to become a better person. In this timeline, Shadow deposed Robotnik and dominated Mobius in order to bring about his own idea of harmony but as he was never influenced by Sonic (Which is inherently bull anyway but I'll get to that in a bit), he turns out to be brutal to the point that Sally 'marries' him in order to tame his attitude in the hopes of making his regime less harsh to the citizens.

 

The problem here is that not only is this a huge mishandling of Shadow's attitude even before he was 'set straight', it wasn't Sonic's influence that caused him to have a change in heart. It was Amy's. So not only does the plot point shoot itself in the foot regarding it's premise but it's fundamentally flawed if Shadow's original change in attitude was due to Amy and wasn't a result of Sonic specifically altering the timeline. The "Maria deification" is just a complete exaggeration of the regard in which Shadow holds Maria in order to misguidedly give his reasoning for his regime weight.

Um I don't know how I can respond to this but ill try. I honestly don't know what point your trying to come across since the whole idea of king shadow was a side affect of king sonic alternating his future(the whole X years laters thing is bull anyways) a future that isn't canon to the main comics story line it's just currupted bad future anything can happen so I don't know where this what influenced shadow thing came from.

[Nepenthe]

At this point, I see little problem with Verte making a point about Shadow being handled in a really shitty way in the comic- regardless of its relevancy to current proceedings of that universe- if we're going to continue acting like Game Shadow suddenly has no personality, has never cracked a joke, or has not bonded with anyone in the games simply because he's not a raging extrovert.

[Soniman]

At this point, I see little problem with Verte making a point about Shadow being handled in a really shitty way in the comic- regardless of its relevancy to current proceedings of that universe- if we're going to continue acting like Game Shadow suddenly has no personality, has never cracked a joke, or has not bonded with anyone in the games simply because he's not a raging extrovert.

 

No, the point that is being made is that the whole "flanderized Maria-Worship" trait is something that is completely irrelevant to the main universe comic version of Shadow, it's a character trait that has nothing to do with him and is exclusive to a alternate non-canon future timeline that was NEVER connected to mainstream Shadow.

 

It's like criticizing mainstream Peter Parker's character because in some other random universe he turned into a zombie and devoured his aunt and girlfriend (on top of millions of other lives), it just doesn't make any sense.

[Vertekins]

I brought up Archie Shadow not only to voice the view that his traits are not comparable to the game's incarnation but because this is a Shadow topic is it not? I assumed by that topic title that Shadow is up for discussion regardless of the version of the character. Alas, I get misrepresented as taking it as an opportunity to jab at Archie when making a salient point. Non-canonicity has absolutely nothing to do with it since it's still a version of Shadow that is open to be commented-on.

 

But I do like Game Shadow as I've said. There's elements of lightheartedness to his character despite his seriousness. I did crack a smile when he jested at Rouge in the last cutscene in Team Dark's story when she comments about jewels and his sheer smugness present on his face before he leaps forward to engage Team Sonic in a fight was hilarious. Some things never change indeed

[Nepenthe]

No, the point that is being made is that the whole "flanderized Maria-Worship" trait is something that is completely irrelevant to the main universe comic version of Shadow, it's a character trait that has nothing to do with him and is exclusive to a alternate non-canon future timeline that was NEVER connected to mainstream Shadow.

 

I think you missed where I said "regardless of the (flanderization's) relevancy," because even if it has no impact on the current comic (which I recognize), anyone and everyone are still free to criticize it, just like we criticize actual games like ShtH and Sonic 06 that aren't relevant to the current proceedings of the franchise anymore either.

 

Furthermore, every criticism you lobbed at Sega Shadow is also pretty contentious in terms of irrelevancy insofar as they're demonstrably false, hence my petty implication that I now see little wrong with Verte doing her thing if we're going to lob the same baseless insults at Shadow we've been lobbing at him for years.