The Shadow Topic

[Solly]

That's like saying we shouldn't use any character other than Sonic because Sonic is already the hero, so what does he need a supporting cast for?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It really isn't.

The role of being Sonic's doppleganger/rival/evil twin is a really specific one-- and a role that's already filled neatly by characters like Metal Sonic.

Edited February 22, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Emerald Chaos]

So explain how Shadow uses his powers such as Chaos Spear or Chaos Blast.

Then there's this little tidbit:

That energy has to be something. And due to Shadow's use of Chaos Powers, it can only be assumed to be "Chaos Energy," unless you can explain that it is something else.

It's energy created from usage of the power of the Chaos Emeralds, There's been a Chaos Emerald present whenever Shadow has used those abilities in canon, right?

As for the powerup Shadow receives when he removes those rings... beats me. We know next to nothing quantifiable about it. We don't know how long it lasts. We don't know how much it powers him up. I'd say it's safer to leave it blank than to say without a doubt it's "chaos energy".

[Burnt Ash]

Shadow and Battle are canon, right? So I don't think there's been a Chaos Emerald present all the time. As for Sonic 2006, I don't know, the emeralds are difficult for me to keep track of.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's energy created from usage of the power of the Chaos Emeralds, There's been a Chaos Emerald present whenever Shadow has used those abilities in canon, right?

He needs to be in physical contact with them or on his possession, not just present. How many times have you seen him use his abilities by simply being near them?

As for the powerup Shadow receives when he removes those rings... beats me. We know next to nothing quantifiable about it. We don't know how long it lasts. We don't know how much it powers him up. I'd say it's safer to leave it blank than to say without a doubt it's "chaos energy".

Yeah, that's no different from trying to dodge the explaination leaving it to a blank state like that.

[Indigo Rush]

As for the powerup Shadow receives when he removes those rings... beats me. We know next to nothing quantifiable about it. We don't know how long it lasts. We don't know how much it powers him up. I'd say it's safer to leave it blank than to say without a doubt it's "chaos energy".

Right, it's best to just ignore this apparent dent in your logic. Heaven forbid someone besides you might be right about something!

[Solly]

Whoa whoa whoa. Time out.

Metal is an interesting character, but at the moment is probably the poorest character to fill a role as rival, and that's mainly because he's hardly done any sort of "rivialing" throughout his 20 year life. He raced Sonic in CD, he tried to defeat Sonic in Heroes, and he had a throwaway role in Generations that makes it very weak to consider. And I wouldn't consider spin-offs because then you throw even more into Shadow's favor depending on the game.

Now I'm not saying Shadow is best at the rivalling, but don't give credit where it isn't due. When Metal is actually used more and decently, then it'll be easier to consider him filling the doppleganger role "neatly", not when he's used less and with very little to him.

Didn't say Metal Sonic was the best rival or anything. I agree that he's underutilized. But being underused doesn't mean that he fits the role of "Sonic's evil doppleganger" any less, because Metal Sonic is still exactly that.

That's what I was getting at.

Except, Knuckles took the combat approach before Shadow was on the drawing board in SA1 and continued to use more combat based gameplay in other games after it. Okay, so it's a simple 3 hit combo, uppercut, and a divebomb, but if that doesn't say combat, then neither does Shadow's Chaos Powers.

For one, it doesn't matter that Knuckles took a combat approach because he was still offering better alternative play in the classic 2D games- and even the Advance games, with his climbing and gliding, which wasn't combat-focused at all. That's what I liked him for and what I feel he offers the series.

Shadow on the other hand has already been combat focussed in Shadow the Hedgehog (with his guns) and Sonic 06. And really, considering the fact that those were his only two playable appearances where he actually differed from Sonic, I'd say all he's really brought to the table in terms of gameplay is more combat.

If you want to start picking out differences in the character's abilities, Shadow can Teleport and he can Hover with his shoes (and that's before we go into his other abilities like Chaos Spear and Blast), I'm pretty sure you can come up with ways that can equally distinguish Shadow from Sonic from two traits like you did with Tails and Knuckles.

Shadow's Chaos Spear and Chaos Blast are geared toward combat, which like I said, is something that I don't think should be a focus in Sonic games.

They could try and do something unique with his teleporting and hovering, but that has yet to be seen.

As for the enemies, wouldn't the simple sollution be to make them go down in one hit (two at the most)?

Well yeah, but my point is that Shadow usually lends himself to combat, which in turn means more enemies and harder enemies that take more time to defeat. In Heroes, Team Dark had more enemies with bigger life-bars. In Shadow the Hedgehog you were basically shooting shit constantly. In Sonic 2006, Shadow had more enemies than Sonic did and an even bigger focus on fighting them, with his weird combo attack (A+A+A+A+A+A+A until everything's dead).

Basically I'm saying that combat in Sonic has a bad track record, and the only things Shadow's done so far that have really seperated him from the others from a gameplay standpoint are combat-related. He just seems so focused on fighting.

I guess it's not in his favor that one of the only games he was unique in(again, from a gameplay perspective) was Sonic 2006, but in that game it feels like his moveset was basically designed as an answer to a problem (lots of enemies) that shouldn't exist in the first place.

A minor nitpick, but those aren't synonymous with "seriousness".

Edgy would describe the intensity of something, like it has you on the edge (hence the word "edgy"); badass would describe something cool, which this series and plenty of other cartoon ones have a lot of.

That's true. I was more or less focussed on the fact that he compared him to Punisher/Wolverine, who are serious for the most part.

[Bot Sweet]

Why don't we just scrap Metal Sonic, then there can be only Shadow fufilling the twin doppleganger role. Shadow's more popular than Metal Sonic anyways.

[Mangoaxe5]

I'd like to see Shadow try to help other "Living Weapons" like the way that he tried to reach out to Metal Sonic in the first issue of Archie comics Sonic Universe series.

I know that the comics and game canons are different but I think that this could be an interesting direction for Shadow.

I certainly don't think that Sega should make Shadow a villain again. It would be stupid to undo all his character development. I really don't understand why some people want Shadow to be a villain again.

[Indigo Rush]

Shadow's more popular than Metal Sonic anyways.

I don't think you understand the magnitude of what you've just brought upon this topic.

[Kuzu]

Shadow has that breakout badass character aspect to him. If theres one thing that Sonic is unable to do that Shadow can, is be more edgy. And I men edgy as in doing Punisher/Wolverine type stuff edgy.

I think IMO that is his only unqiue characteristic that he alone can execute better than anyone. And thats probably one of the main reasons Shadow was popular back in the day.

......Seriously, Total Shadow this is getting annoying now.

The role of being Sonic's doppleganger/rival/evil twin is a really specific one-- and a role that's already filled neatly by characters like Metal Sonic.

So what makes Metal so much more better or better suited than Shadow, yeah he's evil, but that's not saying much considering his lackluster track record, so I fail to see how he's better for the role than Shadow(Not that Shadow is an ideal example either, neither is Metal just sayin).

And before we begin contrasting Shadow from Sonic or Metal Sonic, yes I realize he has some powers that other characters don't have, but he's STILL intended to be a "dark sonic" who is REALLY similar. Basically every character profile of his compares him to Sonic.

Hence why he's "dark Sonic" to begin with, and he's kind of his own character as well, so there's that.

So no, I don't think it's like saying "we don't need anyone but Sonic." I believe there are a lot of characters that have things to offer the series, but unless they change him, Shadow isn't one of them at present.

I don't agree with this at all, and I just think you're being unimaginative, you said yourself you don't care for Shadow. If you look past the shallow perception of just "dark Sonic" he's a lot more than just Sonic's doppelganger.

Shadow, on the other hand, has a poorly defined range of abilities, with the most common ones being Chaos Control, Spear, Blast and his hulkamaniac mode from Sonic 2006. They seem to be geared more toward combat. Combat isn't usually a big focus in Sonic games, and when it IS, it's usually a huge piece of shit, like the enemies that took more than one hit to die in Heroes and Sonic 06

06 is a poorly designed game with poorly designed mechanics, so I wouldn't really consider that solid evidence. To be honest, there hasn't been a game(except arguably Black Knight) to really implement Shadow's abilities to their fullest, yeah Shadow's abilities are more combat orientated, but I don't see how that's a limiting factor, there are a lot of combat based platformers out there, Jak, and the Ratchet & Clank series being prime examples.

I don't totally hate Shadow, though, if you guys can believe that. There are just a lot of things about him I really don't like.

I understand and respect that, but don't dismiss him simply as "wasted potential" simply because of your dislike. I don't really care for Silver, but I still find ways to make him interesting and less boring.

I don't think you understand the magnitude of what you've just brought upon this topic.

He's Total Shadow/ChaosNightmareMoon. I'll report him.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Didn't say Metal Sonic was the best rival or anything. I agree that he's underutilized. But being underused doesn't mean that he fits the role of "Sonic's evil doppleganger" any less, because Metal Sonic is still exactly that.

That's what I was getting at.

I'm saying he doesn't fit "neatly" because he's underutilized. The more he is used, the more power to your point.

For one, it doesn't matter that Knuckles took a combat approach because he was still offering better alternative play in the classic 2D games- and even the Advance games, with his climbing and gliding, which wasn't combat-focused at all. That's what I liked him for and what I feel he offers the series.

Yes it does, and don't even give me that "it doesn't matter" crap. Because for one, it goes to show that the whole argument over having combat isn't shitty by default simply because it's combat.

And it doesn't do your argument any better when Shadow has yet to have a 2D gameplay suitable for him. If you're going to make a comparison, it would be better if you had both elements to compare and contrast instead of half of it for one and all of it for another.

Shadow on the other hand has already been combat focussed in Shadow the Hedgehog (with his guns) and Sonic 06. And really, considering the fact that those were his only two playable appearances where he actually differed from Sonic, I'd say all he's really brought to the table in terms of gameplay is more combat.

I'd say you're barely putting any thought in how to differentiate him. Any worse and I'd say you're making excuses here.

Shadow's Chaos Spear and Chaos Blast are geared toward combat, which like I said, is something that I don't think should be a focus in Sonic games.

They could try and do something unique with his teleporting and hovering, but that has yet to be seen.

Make them less geared towards combat? Is it that difficult to think of how?

And what would be wrong with combat anyway aside from the enemies taking too many hits to defeat? I've liked the idea of blending the speed and combat into a good platforming experience. Now granted, I know that would be fairly difficult, but I'm not one who likes turning down a challenge.

Well yeah, but my point is that Shadow usually lends himself to combat, which in turn means more enemies and harder enemies that take more time to defeat. In Heroes, Team Dark had more enemies with bigger life-bars. In Shadow the Hedgehog you were basically shooting shit constantly. In Sonic 2006, Shadow had more enemies than Sonic did and an even bigger focus on fighting them, with his weird combo attack (A+A+A+A+A+A+A until everything's dead).

Basically I'm saying that combat in Sonic has a bad track record, and the only things Shadow's done so far that have really seperated him from the others from a gameplay standpoint are combat-related. He just seems so focused on fighting.

I guess it's not in his favor that one of the only games he was unique in(again, from a gameplay perspective) was Sonic 2006, but in that game it feels like his moveset was basically designed as an answer to a problem (lots of enemies) that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Then have you ever thought about taking those problems and coming up with a solution to FIX THEM instead of criticizing the problem and not bringing anything to the table to take care of it?

You haven't said anything other than "Shadow's redundant and here's why." We get that, but how does anything you're telling us make him less redundant? Because from how I look at this, you end up coming off like someone who actually hates the character, contrary to what you said earlier.

You say that Shadow has more focus in combat. We can see that. What would you do to make him less focused on combat and more on where you would like this series to go? If you can't think of how to make him less focused on combat, what ideas would you have to make combat less intrusive for the character so that it isn't a problem? How would you set Shadow apart from Sonic?

Honestly, when I hear criticism, I'd like to hear solutions to go along with it instead of "It's bad". It's not very constructive.

Why don't we just scrap Metal Sonic, then there can be only Shadow fufilling the twin doppleganger role. Shadow's more popular than Metal Sonic anyways.

...

Shut the fuck up. We're not scraping Metal Sonic, regardless of who's more "popular" here.

Edited February 23, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Burnt Ash]

Why don't we just scrap Metal Sonic, then there can be only Shadow fufilling the twin doppleganger role. Shadow's more popular than Metal Sonic anyways.

But why? Metal's a character with a lot of potential. It would be a waste to just throw all of that away.

[Solid SOAP]

I loved Shadow's character in Adventure 2, and although ridiculous, I liked seeing him back in Heroes considering the story was so simplistic. However, after that they really killed him as a character and I've never been a huge fan since.

[Darth InVaders]

You dissin' mah boi Diogenes, foo'?

Seriously, while having an established canon is one thing, it's not totally consistent to where it's as rigid as your making it out to be. and I thought I was hard to please.

Also, the fact that you're talking about the established canon is rather silly when you consider that you've flat out disregarded the canon that is Sonic 06 in which Shadow in fact used Chaos Control without a Chaos Emerald at the beginning of the game. You can't just go about dismissing details like that just because it goes against what was established earlier when it's shown right in your face that it is possible for a character to perform a technique without an external force to accomplish it.

I wouldn't diss someone in this argument ... well I might if they tried to also pull the same argument in Sonic X's Shadow who is without a doubt in need of a Chaos Emerald, but the games I recognize for their inconsistencies; again I'm arguing about the stronger evidence which overcomes the inconsistencies - and I feel your side's argument is based solely on weak evidence

And I don't disregard Sonic06, I call it ambiguous and weak evidence (for reasons stated before) - especially compared to the stronger evidence that is consistently used in profiles and cutscenes saying Emeralds are needed

[Indigo Rush]

Shadow could do this:

1) It's an ability that could be classified as a variation of Chaos Control

2) Affects gameplay in 2D and 3D

3) Way to access alternate routes

4) Way to attack enemies

5) Way to increase speed in short bursts

Yay?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I wouldn't diss someone in this argument ... well I might if they tried to also pull the same argument in Sonic X's Shadow who is without a doubt in need of a Chaos Emerald, but the games I recognize for their inconsistencies; again I'm arguing about the stronger evidence which overcomes the inconsistencies - and I feel your side's argument is based solely on weak evidence

And I don't disregard Sonic06, I call it ambiguous and weak evidence (for reasons stated before) - especially compared to the stronger evidence that is consistently used in profiles and cutscenes saying Emeralds are needed

No, you're just calling it that because it completely puts a dent in your "He needs a Chaos Emerald" argument to use Chaos Control. Cutscenes are practically one of the strongest evidence you can get in this series, and you can't call them weak when they show you that it is possible to do what was stated otherwise.

As an added bonus he also used it WITH a Chaos Emerald in the same game, but instead of teleporting he slowed down time. And not to mention the many other instances when he uses it to time travel.

I mean, it's not rocket surgery. It is possible for Shadow to use Chaos Control without an Emerald, but it is weaker than it would be if he were to actually have an emerald on him. The game's since SA2 have shown just that, and they haven't weakened the use of the Emerald's role in inducing these powers.

[Emerald Chaos]

He needs to be in physical contact with them or on his possession, not just present. How many times have you seen him use his abilities by simply being near them?

Chaos Control has been used without physical contact with the Emeralds about as often as speculative examples of Shadow using Chaos Control without possession of them.And there's also examples of characters using the Emeralds for transformations which reinforces the idea that the emeralds can be used like that too.

Examples include the scene in Sonic Adventure 2 where Shadow saves Rouge. He uses Chaos Control while running towards her.

Black Doom uses Chaos Control without direct contact with the Chaos Emeralds

And as far as general usage is concerned, various transformations into super forms have involved the characters interacting with the Emeralds across large distances (The standout example being Sonic Unleashed where Sonic seems to summon the emeralds from the temples). If they can be interacted like that for transformations then it's entirely possible that Chaos Control can be used without direct contact with the emeralds.

Those are the main examples which come to mind.

Right, it's best to just ignore this apparent dent in your logic. Heaven forbid someone besides you might be right about something!

Yeah, that's no different from trying to dodge the explaination leaving it to a blank state like that.

Indigo Rush, I'd thank you for not making assumptions about my Modus Operandi for debating, if I've been proven wrong, I'll admit it. Don't worry about that.

The idea that Shadow's power up in that scene involves the use of "chaos energy" is an assumption. My response was meant to inter that it's safer to make no assumption as to where the power comes from. I'm not trying to dodge an explanation. I'm saying that there is currently not enough evidence to make any sort of conclusion. We need to wait until Shadow uses it in future games and more is revealed about it. There's no precedent for any such ability involving "chaos energy" which doesn't somehow involve the use of the Chaos Emeralds.

[Burnt Ash]

Shadow could do this:

Lol, that looks like he's using a cyan wisp.

[Solly]

I'm just going to say now that I really have no idea why you seem to be so irritated over this. I mean, it's cool if you disagree, but you're coming off as almost being hostile over exactly nothing.

I'm saying he doesn't fit "neatly" because he's underutilized. The more he is used, the more power to your point.

And I'm saying that Metal Sonic is still Sonic's evil doppleganger, reagardless of how much they've used him, because there really isn't much more too him than that. His purpose is pretty clearly layed out. I'm not even talking about how good of a rival he is, just that he fits the archetype like a glove.

And he's going to be in Episode 2, for what it's worth.

Yes it does, and don't even give me that "it doesn't matter" crap. Because for one, it goes to show that the whole argument over having combat isn't shitty by default simply because it's combat.

And it doesn't do your argument any better when Shadow has yet to have a 2D gameplay suitable for him. If you're going to make a comparison, it would be better if you had both elements to compare and contrast instead of half of it for one and all of it for another.

Not ragging on combat JUST because it's combat. I'm doing it because it's basically never been good, Knuckles included. All I was saying was that Knuckles HAS offered something I like to Sonic gameplay before, and Shadow hasn't. That's all.

And I didn't really bring up the classic games with the intent on differentiating them to modern ones, because as far as I'm concerned, if Knuckles worked in those, he can work in a 3D environment too. 2D has nothing to do with it for me because finding a way to use his powers is pretty easy.

I'd say you're barely putting any thought in how to differentiate him. Any worse and I'd say you're making excuses here.

Not saying it's IMPOSSIBlE to do anything else, but SEGA sure hasn't thought of it yet, and that's my point. I'm not designing the games here.

Make them less geared towards combat? Is it that difficult to think of how?

Chaos Spear hurts/stuns enemies. Chaos Blast destroys enemies in a radius around Shadow. I can't think of a non-gimmicky way to use those in a way that aren't combat related.

And what would be wrong with combat anyway aside from the enemies taking too many hits to defeat? I've liked the idea of blending the speed and combat into a good platforming experience. Now granted, I know that would be fairly difficult, but I'm not one who likes turning down a challenge.

We all want different things out of a Sonic game. Combat isn't something I really look for in a platformer, especially Sonic. Could they make something cool with speed and combat? Sure, and if they managed to do that I'd be down with it and might even like combat, but like you said, blending it really well would be hard.

I think the reason I like characters like Tails and Knuckles more is because what they have to offer the series is more obvous to me. I really don't even know what else to say to this.

Then have you ever thought about taking those problems and coming up with a solution to FIX THEM instead of criticizing the problem and not bringing anything to the table to take care of it?

You haven't said anything other than "Shadow's redundant and here's why." We get that, but how does anything you're telling us make him less redundant? Because from how I look at this, you end up coming off like someone who actually hates the character, contrary to what you said earlier.

You say that Shadow has more focus in combat. We can see that. What would you do to make him less focused on combat and more on where you would like this series to go? If you can't think of how to make him less focused on combat, what ideas would you have to make combat less intrusive for the character so that it isn't a problem? How would you set Shadow apart from Sonic?

Honestly, when I hear criticism, I'd like to hear solutions to go along with it instead of "It's bad". It's not very constructive.

Actually, I have given solutions thought. I have contemplated a lot of things in the Sonic series, including the applications of characters like Shadow and the problems with combat.

The biggest reason I'm ragging on combat is really that I just generally don't like it. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "I would rather this aspect of a game not be in," and to be honest, I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out a problem even if I don't personally have a solution.

And holy shit, I don't hate Shadow. Honest. Just voicing my opinion on the character and saying that I don't think they have much they could do with him at present. They could invent new powers for him or whatever, rewrite his character, I don't care. But I don't see why people get so defensive about this kind of stuff.

But if it really pleases you, and you want a suggestion THAT BAD, I'll offer something, even if it's far from percfect.

How about using the teleportation power to pass through solid objects? I had thought about this one a lot, but I felt it was too gimmicky. I dunno, maybe someone here will like it.

Again, I don't see why it feels like you're making this out to be a federal case. I wasn't totally dismissing the character and saying SEGA should never ever use him again. I was saying that they hit a dead end with him.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Solly

[Sean]

Shadow topics: They attract ban-dodgers

[Darth InVaders]

No, you're just calling it that because it completely puts a dent in your "He needs a Chaos Emerald" argument to use Chaos Control. Cutscenes are practically one of the strongest evidence you can get in this series, and you can't call them weak when they show you that it is possible to do what was stated otherwise.

As an added bonus he also used it WITH a Chaos Emerald in the same game, but instead of teleporting he slowed down time. And not to mention the many other instances when he uses it to time travel.

I mean, it's not rocket surgery. It is possible for Shadow to use Chaos Control without an Emerald, but it is weaker than it would be if he were to actually have an emerald on him. The game's since SA2 have shown just that, and they haven't weakened the use of the Emerald's role in inducing these powers.

Chaos Control is using [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space... there are no different versions of it - Sonic Team consistently uses the same language, even in a cutscene of Sonic06 - I'm not calling it weak because it dents my argument, it is weak evidence. It is ambiguous because Shadow does not even call out "Chaos Control", it is weak evidence because it contradicts profiles and cutscenes, including the cutscene later in the same game - possible reasons for this contradiction include how it was not made by Sonic Team (it was farmed out to 3rd parties I listed earlier) and also the ambiguity could mean it was not meant to be considered Chaos Control (a possible mistake made in the communication between Sonic Team and the CG makers; or a mistake in the CG makers' research). I acknowledge this piece of evidence to be your side's best, but it is still weak compared to mine - it is heavily overcome by many more cutscenes and profiles (many if not all of which come directly from Sonic Team themselves) that say Chaos Control is using [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space. It really comes down to this ambigous cutscene vs all of these quotes from profiles and cutscenes:

-"It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp" - Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2 cutscene

-"It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake." - Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2 cutscene

-"With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space" - Shadow in Sonic 2006 cutscene

http://www.youtube.com/user/Gamechamp3000#p/c/7A0341B2BE90C555/15/bF9Vf_0jhkc

-"He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds" - Shadow profile on Sonic Channel (translated using Google Translation)

http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/chara/shadow/index.html

-"Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds" - Shadow profile in Sonic Adventure 2 manual

http://info.sonicretro.org/File:SonicAdventure2US-09.jpg

-"Shadow is able to harness the power of the Chaos Emerald to warp time and space" - Shadow profile in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle manual

http://info.sonicretro.org/File:SA2BGC_US_manual_0005.jpg

- "...and can use a technique known as 'Chaos Control' to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds." - Shadow profile in Sonic Heroes manual

http://info.sonicretro.org/File:Sonic_Heroes_US_XBOX_Page_4.jpg

-"Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..." - Shadow profile in Sonic Rivals manual and on Rivals websites

http://info.sonicretro.org/File:SRV_MAN_US_0006.jpg

http://www2.sega.com/gamesite/sonicrivals/

http://sonicrivals.sega-europe.com/en/

Shadow is not a living Chaos Emerald capable of generating power like a Chaos Emerald (which he would have to be to do Chaos Control without Emeralds)

edit: crap, why is it posting video instead of just hyperlinks? I apologize to anyone that experiences the page slowing down

Edited February 23, 2012 by Darth InVaders

[Diogenes]

It is ambiguous because Shadow does not even call out "Chaos Control"

Seriously? Seriously??? Are you going to propose that it is a different move simply because Shadow does not act like a generic anime character in that particular instance? Shadow just pulls some other method of teleportation out of his ass.

it is weak evidence because it contradicts profiles and cutscenes,

What does it contradict, specifically? It's not contradicting the stuff that says he can use Chaos Control with an emerald, because that's still true; he can and does use Chaos Control with an emerald, whether or not he can also do it without one.

I acknowledge this piece of evidence to be your side's best, but it is still weak compared to mine - it is heavily overcome by many more cutscenes and profiles (many if not all of which come directly from Sonic Team themselves) that say Chaos Control is using [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space.

Which in no way precludes acquiring that "power" through means other than an emerald.

It really comes down to this ambigous cutscene vs all of these quotes from profiles and cutscenes:

Except, again, not a single one of these goes against the possibility of Shadow being able to use Chaos Control without an emerald. They merely state that he can do it with one.

[#EndyGate]

I personally prefer the egotistical jerk persona Shadow had in Free Riders and Generations (to an extent)

As for satisfying the conditions in the OP, I think it would be pretty simple if Team Dark were set as G.U.N.'s main group for taking on Eggman, thus leading to conflict with Sonic, who is more of a vigilante than any official officer, plus you also have to consider the recognition and payment they recieve if they are the ones to thwart Eggman's plans. So Rouge would obviously take the oppurtunity to go against Sonic and friends, with both Shadow and Omega there to assist.

Or something like that

Also on the matter of teleportation/the laser ability, I think both could work as little gimmicks for Shadow to use, and as mentioned before, could easily fit as variations of Chaos Control.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Cerp

[Indigo Rush]

Lol, that looks like he's using a cyan wisp.

As a matter of fact, it's pretty much the same thing. Just modify it a tad so it doesn't blast forward as far as the Wisp power up (at least in 3D sections) and I think we have a workable and dynamic move for Shadow.