The Shadow Topic

[Kuzu]

Shadow wanders? Since when?

I said he should.

[#EndyGate]

How about instead of aimlessly wandering:

He works as a member of G.U.N. executing missions to help those in need in order to fulfill his promise to Maria by making the world a better place. Also he along with the rest of Team Dark are seen as the go to operatives for dealing with the likes of Eggman, so usually they'll be sent out to thwart whatever plan the Doctor has going on. This means that he'll end up working alongside Sonic more often, but if Sonic were to in any way jeopardize the mission, Shadow would be quick to try and get rid of him.

[Burnt Ash]

The Knuckles Master Emerald topic irked me, so I decided to bump my thread.

So how about this for Shadow, he just wanders, just like Sonic. As in he drifts from place to place because he's a loner and wants to be left alone, and like Sonic, would get caught up in a bunch of crazy adventures, when he'd rather just be left alone. He has no Allegiances with anybody, Sonic, Eggman, anybody, and does things of his own accord.

This is just off the top of my head.

Besides the wandering, isn't that what he already does?

[UltDevilDoom]

Wow. An actual serious discussion about Shadow and his role in the franchise. Excuse me, I just migrated from the immature Sega Forums.

Anyway, I think Sega needs to do these two things with Shadow more than anything else:

1. SA2 Shadow, plain and simple. If the Sonic Adventure 2 port rumors are true, that's a great starting point to bring him back to the way he was for the next game.

2. Sonic and Shadow should never be on good terms. They need to fight. A lot.

C'mon, Sega. We know you can do this if you try, so try.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I've somewhat been fond of the idea of Shadow being almost mercenary-like. I'm very much cool with the idea of him being in the forces of GUN, but I figured that he could do some wandering himself.

Basically, he wanders around the world helping out of his own interest or for the sake of people who are having trouble protecting themselves. He's not one to care too much about getting paid for his services, but he does have some degree of self-interest. Eh, the problem is what would there be for his own interests. There's the Chaos Emeralds and Space Colony Ark, but aside from those two relations, we'd have to build something for him completely from scratch. That's kind of why I like him being with GUN at the moment, as it gives him a sense of purpose and belonging in the world.

That's not saying he can't strike out on his own. And it would be interesting to see him actively go against orders from GUN should they carry their objectives too far.

[Jango]

I liked Shadow a lot at the Adventure 2 time. His sexy voice, his mission, the way he talks, think, his air of "I'm better than you", but still with a big heart. His final sacrifice was simply the best ending in a Sonic game I ever seen (dammit, I admit I cried when I finished the game for the first time T_T). But then SEGA bring he back... Not that I don't liked him in Heroes and STH, but he is just not the same hedgehog. Everything became so confusing and mixed. And now look at him. Bland, no motivations, used in spinoffs only.

He is a GUN agent... He start hating GUN because they killed Maria by no fucking reason and now he works with them? No, seriously, wtf... He finished his mission on Adventure 2 by forgiving that mistake and saving the Earth, bring he back and make him work to GUN seens pointless to me.

That's why I prefer to think Shadow died in SA2.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Jango

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

He is a GUN agent... He start hating GUN because they killed Maria by no fucking reason and now he works with them? No, seriously, wtf...

He finished his mission on Adventure 2 by forgiving that mistake and saving the Earth, bring he back and make him work to GUN seens pointless to me.

Actually, no.

He hated the whole world because his first experience with people on Earth were people who came and invaded the ARK that proceded to kill everyone there. Gerald's influence was especially a multiplier in this, because it was through Shadow that Gerald carried out his plan to wipe out all life on Earth.

Maria, on the other hand, wanted Shadow to make the people on Earth be happy, whereas he though (through Gerald's tampering of his mind) that she wanted revenge. In realizing that, Shadow is trying to fulfill that wish by protecting the people on earth, and what better way to protect people than to be part of the armed forces that protect the planet? That, and because everything he did in ShTH to save the earth made the people who know about the ARK massacre reconsider their thoughts on Gerald who wanted to protect everyone from the Black Arms before he himself tried to kill them out due to his insanity may had added to the redemption.

Basically the world forgives Shadow, and by extension Prof. Gerald over what happen to SA2 if not outright apologizing for its actions, and in turn Shadow forgives the world and promises to protect it from here on out.

Eh. YMMV on how you would look at that, but I figured I'd make an analysis off of it.

[Jango]

Actually, no.

He hated the whole world because his first experience with people on Earth were people who came and invaded the ARK that proceded to kill everyone there. Gerald's influence was especially a multiplier in this, because it was through Shadow that Gerald carried out his plan to wipe out all life on Earth.

Maria, on the other hand, wanted Shadow to make the people on Earth be happy, whereas he though (through Gerald's tampering of his mind) that she wanted revenge. In realizing that, Shadow is trying to fulfill that wish by protecting the people on earth, and what better way to protect people than to be part of the armed forces that protect the planet? That, and because everything he did in ShTH to save the earth made the people who know about the ARK massacre reconsider their thoughts on Gerald who wanted to protect everyone from the Black Arms before he himself tried to kill them out due to his insanity may had added to the redemption.

Basically the world forgives Shadow, and by extension Prof. Gerald over what happen to SA2 if not outright apologizing for its actions, and in turn Shadow forgives the world and promises to protect it from here on out.

Eh. YMMV on how you would look at that, but I figured I'd make an analysis off of it.

I know, I know. Gerald always meant to protect the Earth, but still makes more sense if Shadow stayed dead at the end of Adventure 2 to me. Maria wished the making to be happy, but they killed her, in fact, it doesn't makes sense, a common people will probaly wish revenge, that's what Shadow thought too. But he realized that nobody deserves to die like Maria, and then he saved the planet. I do love to discuss that theories SA2 - ShadowTH, but still makes me happier to think Shadow died rsrs

Edited June 4, 2012 by Jango

[Kuzu]

I know, I know. Gerald always meant to protect the Earth, but still makes more sense if Shadow stayed dead at the end of Adventure 2 to me. Maria wished the making to be happy, but they killed her, in fact, it doesn't makes sense, a common people will probaly wish revenge, that's what Shadow thought too. But he realized that nobody deserves to die like Maria, and then he saved the planet. I do love to discuss that theories SA2 - ShadowTH, but still makes me happier to think Shadow died rsrs

What difference would have it made if he died? The whole point of Sa2's ending was for Shadow to fulfill the dying wish of Maria, which he succeeded in doing, him dying made little difference.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I know, I know. Gerald always meant to protect the Earth, but still makes more sense if Shadow stayed dead at the end of Adventure 2 to me.

And what if he didn't die at the end (as if he already hasn't died anyway)? Why is does his "death" mean more than the fact that he fulfilled Maria's wish? Why couldn't he have done that and stayed alive and still make sense?

Seriously, how is him being alive a problem?

Maria wished the making to be happy, but they killed her, in fact, it doesn't makes sense, a common people will probaly wish revenge, that's what Shadow thought too.

They killed Maria like they killed the scientist because they didn't want anyone alive on the ARK. Grim, yes, but they had their orders and yes it made sense.

Shadow only thought what Gerald wanted him to think, otherwise had Gerald not did anything to his mind, then Shadow would not have sworn revenge due to Maria's promise.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Stacy]

Did anybody else go through a Shadow "period"? I did especially when I was watching Sonic X a lot and around the time Shadow The Hedgehog came out, all angst and everything. *Goes bright red*

[Rusty Spy]

Did anybody else go through a Shadow "period"? I did especially when I was watching Sonic X a lot and around the time Shadow The Hedgehog came out, all angst and everything. *Goes bright red*

I was a Shadow fanboy from 2001 - 2005. You can probably guess what game broke me from that. Still ashamed of owning it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Did anybody else go through a Shadow "period"? I did especially when I was watching Sonic X a lot and around the time Shadow The Hedgehog came out, all angst and everything. *Goes bright red*

I was a bit of a tech geek while Shadow was around before ShTH, and as such Tails was the one I kinda fangasmed over because of his walker mech.

I jumped on to ShTH because I thought the game could bring a level of darkness and depth to the series only to end up learning a lesson in how dark you can make things before you go too far in a well established series.

[Jango]

Seriously, how is him being alive a problem?

Simple: I don't liked him after Adventure 2. Pretty much it.

[Komodin]

Did anybody else go through a Shadow "period"? I did especially when I was watching Sonic X a lot and around the time Shadow The Hedgehog came out, all angst and everything. *Goes bright red*

I'll be honest: I was a huge Shadow fan back then. In fact, even when the game was released, I had tons of fun with it; I mean, it's a game all about flippin' Shadow, mang; it was like Christmas every day to me!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Simple: I don't liked him after Adventure 2. Pretty much it.

I'm not asking why you don't like him, I'm asking how is being alive a problem that the character shouldn't be around and what if they never made it appear as tho he died.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[UltDevilDoom]

I'm still going through my Shadow period. I'm taking it to Sonic Boom with me.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I don't know the relevance of this question, but since it does sorta cover rebooting, I'll post it here:

If you absolutely had no choice but to reboot Shadow the Hedgehog (the character, not the game), and you weren't allowed to use the original story he was given, what story would you give him?

This was copy pasted from the Rebooting the Franchise Topic, due to being more relevant to the topic at hand.

[Wittymations]

They need to have Shadow as what he was created to be -- attitude wise. Like Sonic, but darker. Now, that doesn't mean he has to be evil, he just needs a more seriousness about him.

I see it like this:

Sonic || Shadow

Cocky || Arragont

Cares for many || Cares for the few

Smiles a lot || Smiles when true friends are near (such as Rouge, Omega, ect)

Fun, whacky sense of humor || Humor through backhand remarks

Lovable goof (comedic relief) || Situational comedy)

Has Tails || Has Rouge

Natural speed, and luck || Shoes give him Sonic speed, and Chaos Control

Free spirit || Military dog (In a sense: Anarachist || Marshall)

"I'm the greatest!" || "You're below me..."

I think you get the point.

As for his role, he should just be the Vegeta of Sonic. He should rival Sonic by similarities and occasional ally. So, he's Sonic's respected rival. Not friends, not really friendly, but respected. Leaving Metal Sonic as Sonic's evil rival, and Knuckles as a friendly sorta rival

He should appear, and hopefully be playable (If they fix this hog) during major games. Always with Rouge, as his sidekick. As I said, Rouge should be Shadow's Tails. She may not be a genius, but probably has access to more G.U.N. gadgets than Shadow does. (DIdn't play 06)

Sonic and Shadow should see each other as respected equals. Though the game would, naturally, follow the blue blur more as the hero. Sonic thinking Shadow is too serious, and Shadow thinking Sonic, though skilled, is a complete moron (maybe showing, in the game, Shadow to be more intelligent).

I also wouldn't mind it if they poked fun at his past mistakes (a little). Like the way Archie poked fun at the motorcycle thing. He never road the bike, but he really likes it -- even giving it a paint job. Or with Sonic calling him angsty a lot.

This is more of fixing his character, I think.

[The Weeb with No Name]

I don't know the relevance of this question, but since it does sorta cover rebooting, I'll post it here:

If you absolutely had no choice but to reboot Shadow the Hedgehog (the character, not the game), and you weren't allowed to use the original story he was given, what story would you give him?

This was copy pasted from the Rebooting the Franchise Topic, due to being more relevant to the topic at hand.

I'd might make him the Scourge of Sega Sonic. An alternate universe version of the same hero, shaped through different circumstances.

[Kuzu]

As for his role, he should just be the Vegeta of Sonic.

You mean he isn't?

He should appear, and hopefully be playable (If they fix this hog) during major games. Always with Rouge, as his sidekick. As I said, Rouge should be Shadow's Tails. She may not be a genius, but probably has access to more G.U.N. gadgets than Shadow does. (DIdn't play 06)

I'm not too keen on demoting Rouge to simply his second banana, especially since that's already happened, and Rouge is a much worse character for it. I understand you want parallels to be made between Sonic & Shadow, but you can do so without ruining other characters.

Unlike Tails, Rouge started off as an almost completely independent character and only worked with Shadow later out of circumstance, yeah they became close friends later, but I don't think its worth taking away huge chunks of Rouge's character to simply be Shadow's sidekick, she's better than that.

[Wittymations]

You mean he isn't?

Well, they seem to be unsure what they want to do with him. At a time, he was the evil version of Sonic. Then later, he became the Vegeta, then the main man with his own (blah) title. Just saying, he needs to be stopped about that area.

Unlike Tails, Rouge started off as an almost completely independent character and only worked with Shadow later out of circumstance, yeah they became close friends later, but I don't think its worth taking away huge chunks of Rouge's character to simply be Shadow's sidekick, she's better than that.

That's all true. But I don't view Tails as just Sonic's side kick. He's a leader in his own right and highly important to the overall team. He's not just a tag a long buddy. He's been crucial to many plot elements and has been compared to Robotnik in intelligence. I don't know, but when your "sidekick" is on a near even playing field as your arch-enemy, that says a lot. They're more bros than Batman and Robin, I think.

Having Rouge as Shadow's Tails, I feel, wouldn't really demote either of the two, but give them both more of a liscence to be in there. I don't feel it would really be a sidekick bond, but near an equal partnership. If Shadow were in a really desperate situation and needed Rouge to help him, I could see her either bartering or teasing him before even lending a hand. In a way, seems Shadow would be more dependant on Rouge, than the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, I see and understand where you're coming from. Rouge is a very interesting and powerful character. Particularly for a female one. It almost would seem criminal to want to take that away from her by making her a sidekick. However, to me, it seems more of a partnership than Shadow's number one and Rouge is two.

A lot of ways, when you see Team Dark, Rouge seems more of the leader. I think Rouge would be more of the leading role of the duo, than Shadow, if there is a leader. Perhaps calling Rouge Shadow's Tails isn't the best way to describe it.

But hey, I been wrong before. Maybe the Shadow "like Sonic, but not" route wouldn't be the best one to take.

[MegaMan_EXE]

I'm not sure if I said anything here, but here's my opinion on Shadow.

Shadow is a character that was needed for this franchise. Sometime in the future, the hero will have to fight someone who's his or her match. Shadow was THAT character for Sonic. He had the same abilities, but with new ones later on. As with every other character that posses great powers like the hero, he has a back story. Shadow's back story is a mixed bag for me. I like the fact that he was part of an experiment (my Shadow knowledge is rusty at the moment), and had someone to be friends with, Maria. However, I feel like something's not right. It could be me, but if more was explained in Adventure 2, I would've been more satisfied. To get back on track, the professor went insane, and Maria was killed, leaving Shadow behind. At the end of Adventure 2, you get the sense that he's a good character, and wish that he could be back to battle Sonic again.

Due to fan's request, Shadow was brought back. Bringing him back was going to be a tough process. Seeing as how Shadow crash into Earth and died. The way of bringing him back, again, was a mixed bag for me. Making the fans believe that he is an android was a good idea because it makes you question where the real Shadow is, and what will happen to him later in life. But I didn't like the fact that he was brought back. It would've been a bigger and more important moment in the franchise is he stayed dead, thus making fans remember him as that one cool antagonist toward our blue hero. Shadow just didn't seem needed to me in Sonic Heroes.

Shadow the Hedgehog is where I lost my opinion on Shadow. Just like X (main character of the Mega Man X series), he was awesome at first, then started to be there for filler, and then just flat out sucked as a character. Thus, begins Shadow's emo personality. From the moment when he started using guns, to choosing his destiny, something was wrong. REALLY wrong. The fact that he was giving guns, the ability to swear, and having people dying, didn't work at ALL for Shadow. When I think of Shadow from Adventure 2, I think of him as that one rival that had a chance to take down the main hero. When I think of him after Heroes, he just seems there for filler, not needed, but just there because he's the 2nd most popular character in the franchise.

From Shadow onward, he just seemed pointless to have around. He had his 3 game character ark (which personally, I would've just liked to have one game for it), so why is he still around? To me, it's because of laziness. Having characters stick around for no purpose isn't the way to go. The way I see it, if they serve a point to the story, then they're welcome. You could say that Shadow did serve an importance in 06, which he did, but that game was erased from history, and somehow brought back in Generations. *Confused*

If you hate this opinion, I'm fine with that. It's just an opinion. I don't hate Shadow, but I just think he doesn't need to be in every Sonic game that comes out. At least Unleashed and Colors (Wii) didn't have him. He wouldn't have served a point.

[Kuzu]

To be honest, no character aside from Sonic & Eggman serve no real purpose anymore they're just kept around because Sega can't outright get rid of everyone, but it's pretty damn obvious they have no plans, or further use for anyone at the moment to appease the "we hate the shitty friends" crowd.

[Diogenes]

If you absolutely had no choice but to reboot Shadow the Hedgehog (the character, not the game), and you weren't allowed to use the original story he was given, what story would you give him?

Okay, let's narrow down Shadow to his essential qualities.

1. He is a "dark Sonic".

2. He has the ability of "Chaos Control".

3. He was created artificially...

3a(?). ...by Gerald Robotnik...

3b(?). ...and was friends with his granddaughter Maria.

The last two I think are not quite essential, but close. I think I'd have trouble associating a character made from just the first 3 with Shadow, but along with the latter two may pin him to his current character a bit too much.

On the subject of Chaos Control, I think it needs to be more focused. It's become too much of a catch-all, and I think even in SA2 it was leaning towards that. First, cut Chaos Spear and the rest of the Chaos Whatever attacks. If Shadow's supposed to be a dark Sonic, I want to see some spinballing, and when he's fighting Sonic, I want to see balls touching, not DBZ lasers. So the question is whether Chaos Control teleports, slows time, or does something else (probably still speed-related). I'm going to tentatively go for teleportation, since it gives him "speed" in a way that isn't directly comparable to Sonic's.

As far as being a dark Sonic, I wouldn't want him to be explicitly made to combat Sonic, since Metal Sonic already exists. At the same time, I don't want the resemblance between the two to be completely coincidental, either; there should be something there for them to work with. If we're going to keep Gerald and all that, we could insert that theory about Shadow being based on the Hidden Palace mural. If we're going to drop Gerald...how about if GUN is responsible for him? Sonic's been around for a while at this point, maybe GUN decides they want a superpowered hedgehog that they can actually keep tabs on (which turns out to be the exact opposite of what happens). They can still keep/reuse some of the same plot/character points (ShtH's whole "choose your side" bit, angsting over being artificial, eventually (re)joining GUN), but the short-term is harder; Shadow saying "fuck GUN I'm my own man" isn't really a strong impetus for a whole game's story. Gerald's whole revenge scheme could be tweaked to work, but without Shadow being connected to it it's two really disparate plotlines (maybe save it for a later game).

They could maybe build a game out of the early "mistaken identity" part of SA2. Have something like the Dark story's opening, excising references to Gerald and Maria, and have Shadow take Eggman freeing him as an opportunity to escape. Maybe Eggman decides to have Shadow frame Sonic, maybe GUN decides it's a convenient cover for the rogue bioweapon, maybe both. So Sonic's fighting off GUN, Eggman and Shadow (and maybe Rouge too; she could be slotted in without much change), maybe even a few of his friends that aren't entirely convinced that he hasn't turned. Not sure what to do about the endgame, though; there's no threat on par with SA2's (though, do we need one that big?) and I'm not sure how to go about Shadow's development, specifically what would get him to go antihero.