The Shadow Topic

[Kuzu]

Okay, let's narrow down Shadow to his essential qualities.

1. He is a "dark Sonic".

2. He has the ability of "Chaos Control".

3. He was created artificially...

3a(?). ...by Gerald Robotnik...

3b(?). ...and was friends with his granddaughter Maria.

The last two I think are not quite essential, but close. I think I'd have trouble associating a character made from just the first 3 with Shadow, but along with the latter two may pin him to his current character a bit too much.

On the subject of Chaos Control, I think it needs to be more focused. It's become too much of a catch-all, and I think even in SA2 it was leaning towards that. First, cut Chaos Spear and the rest of the Chaos Whatever attacks. If Shadow's supposed to be a dark Sonic, I want to see some spinballing, and when he's fighting Sonic, I want to see balls touching, not DBZ lasers. So the question is whether Chaos Control teleports, slows time, or does something else (probably still speed-related). I'm going to tentatively go for teleportation, since it gives him "speed" in a way that isn't directly comparable to Sonic's.

As far as being a dark Sonic, I wouldn't want him to be explicitly made to combat Sonic, since Metal Sonic already exists. At the same time, I don't want the resemblance between the two to be completely coincidental, either; there should be something there for them to work with. If we're going to keep Gerald and all that, we could insert that theory about Shadow being based on the Hidden Palace mural. If we're going to drop Gerald...how about if GUN is responsible for him? Sonic's been around for a while at this point, maybe GUN decides they want a superpowered hedgehog that they can actually keep tabs on (which turns out to be the exact opposite of what happens). They can still keep/reuse some of the same plot/character points (ShtH's whole "choose your side" bit, angsting over being artificial, eventually (re)joining GUN), but the short-term is harder; Shadow saying "fuck GUN I'm my own man" isn't really a strong impetus for a whole game's story. Gerald's whole revenge scheme could be tweaked to work, but without Shadow being connected to it it's two really disparate plotlines (maybe save it for a later game).

They could maybe build a game out of the early "mistaken identity" part of SA2. Have something like the Dark story's opening, excising references to Gerald and Maria, and have Shadow take Eggman freeing him as an opportunity to escape. Maybe Eggman decides to have Shadow frame Sonic, maybe GUN decides it's a convenient cover for the rogue bioweapon, maybe both. So Sonic's fighting off GUN, Eggman and Shadow (and maybe Rouge too; she could be slotted in without much change), maybe even a few of his friends that aren't entirely convinced that he hasn't turned. Not sure what to do about the endgame, though; there's no threat on par with SA2's (though, do we need one that big?) and I'm not sure how to go about Shadow's development, specifically what would get him to go antihero.

.......Really hope that was intentional.

Anywho, I don't really have a problem with Shadow being "dark Sonic" except: A. Metal Sonic kind of fits it better because he actually is based on Sonic. B. Shadow has kind of evolved into his own character, he's not just dark Sonic anymore.

Aside from the obvious problems, I have no real beef with Shadow's backstory he just needs less shilling; I get it, he's awesome but that doesn't mean I want him to suddenly be the center of every single conflict simply because he's popular. I think Shadow works better if he's used sparingly, he doesn't need to show up all of the time, in fact I'd probably use him less unless I wanted to focus on the entire cast at once.

His appearances should make an impact however to compensate for his lack of screentime, Shadow's debut herald the "darker" feel of the franchise, well, utilize that. Have Shadow's presence signify that the stakes are a bit more higher than usual, and that things should be taken a bit more seriously. Obviously I'm not saying that we should go to the length's his game, and 06 went, but whatever feels natural for the series. Oh, and maybe throw a conflict with Sonic here and there for some drama.

Edited June 12, 2012 by The Batman

[Diogenes]

.......Really hope that was intentional.

What? No. No! I would never insert references to hot gay sex into a serious discussion.

Anywho, I don't really have a problem with Shadow being "dark Sonic" except: A. Metal Sonic kind of fits it better because he actually is based on Sonic. B. Shadow has kind of evolved into his own character, he's not just dark Sonic anymore.

It's unfortunate that they doubled up on the concept, but I had to work with what I'm given. And regardless of what development he's gone through, he is still a dark Sonic; SA2 didn't just stop happening, and he's always going to be that dark recolor who can match all of Sonic's moves.

[Kuzu]

What? No. No! I would never insert references to hot gay sex into a serious discussion.

riiiiiiggghhtt.

It's unfortunate that they doubled up on the concept, but I had to work with what I'm given. And regardless of what development he's gone through, he is still a dark Sonic; SA2 didn't just stop happening, and he's always going to be that dark recolor who can match all of Sonic's moves.

I know that, but he's still his own character and hence forth we can focus on other things about him than just being "dark Sonic".

[Diogenes]

And I'm not saying he shouldn't have other things. But I think being dark Sonic is always going to be a part of him, and should be embraced. And if you're going to reboot him, that's where you should start (if for no other reason that you damn sure can't introduce that point later).

[Kuzu]

And I'm not saying he shouldn't have other things. But I think being dark Sonic is always going to be a part of him, and should be embraced. And if you're going to reboot him, that's where you should start (if for no other reason that you damn sure can't introduce that point later).

Well yeah, I'm just saying I don't want to play it up so much that it makes Metal Sonic redundant by comparison, two evil counterpart characters just seem unnecessary.

Edited June 12, 2012 by The Batman

[Diogenes]

And I agree! I don't want to render Metal Sonic redundant. And if it were an option, I wouldn't have two dark counterparts to Sonic. But the idea of the exercise is to reboot Shadow, and being dark Sonic is, I think, pretty integral to the character, and it doesn't serve him well to push it into the background just because Metal Sonic already exists. In this hypothetical reboot I would like to find a nice balance where they can both be "dark Sonic" without infringing on each other's territory (like, Metal wants to actually kill Sonic, while Shadow doesn't like him but has no particular reason to want him dead, and maybe Metal has an inferiority complex and desperately wants to prove himself the "real" Sonic while Shadow is just smugly superior and thinks Sonic is the old, outdated model) and also being developed characters in other areas, too.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Something i want to point out that you don't necessarily need two "dark" doppelgängers. I'm hopping this isn't a half-assed way of looking at it, but Metal Sonic should be more the "evil" Sonic while Shadow can keep the "dark" without any kind of contest.

Dark isn't necessarily evil and Shadow is definite a prime example.

[The Weeb with No Name]

I always thought of Metal Sonic as just being a soulless tool used by Eggman to kill Sonic. Never really saw it as being much of a character.

[Kuzu]

I always thought of Metal Sonic as just being a soulless tool used by Eggman to kill Sonic. Never really saw it as being much of a character.

Whether he's a soulless construct or not means nothing, he's meant to be a doppelganger and if Shadow completely eclipses him in that regard, then Metal's existence is basically pointless, he's basically just another mook who looks like Sonic.

[Sparky]

This is what I think on whether Shadow could use Chaos Powers without an Emerald or not, and if Sonic can use his Chaos Powers. I say he can.

I say that most/all of the characters that has been playable in a Sonic game has some Chaos Energy in them. This is evidenced by that colorful aura of energy you see when they do an attack or something, and this has been seen in cut-scenes several times, such as Sonic 06's CG openings, Sonic Unleashed's opening (if you pay close to attention to Sonic's fight with the robots, you can see a light blue glow around him), Colors CG Trailer/opening, and Sonic Generations CG Trailers (Even Classic Sonic had a light blue energy glowing aura when he used a Spin Attack in the City Escape and Rooftop Run cg scenes). So Shadow has some chaos energy inside of him, and can use that for Chaos Control, Spear, or Blast. The rings he wears limits the full power he possesses, because he would burn out and feint.

Sonic has the ability to use Shadow's Chaos Control powers the same way Shadow might have the ability to use Sonic's speed-based abilities without those Hover Shoes. Sonic just chooses not to, and probably doesn't have the SKILL to perform them. He has the ability to, but he doesn't have the full knowledge on how to do it with the same finesse as Shadow.

Edited June 13, 2012 by tsz11

[UltDevilDoom]

Something i want to point out that you don't necessarily need two "dark" doppelgängers. I'm hopping this isn't a half-assed way of looking at it, but Metal Sonic should be more the "evil" Sonic while Shadow can keep the "dark" without any kind of contest.

Dark isn't necessarily evil and Shadow is definite a prime example.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Whether he's a soulless construct or not means nothing, he's meant to be a doppelganger and if Shadow completely eclipses him in that regard, then Metal's existence is basically pointless, he's basically just another mook who looks like Sonic.

Two simple ways to avoid that:

1) Use Metal Sonic more, because obviously he's done very little despite being a doppelganger

2) Treat Metal as Eggman's prime enforcer in his robot army. Metal Sonic is made to be Eggman's prized and one of his most powerful creations, and yet despite being around he's not being used as such.

But until Sonic Team gets that message, he's stuck in storage collecting dust in his circuits. I mean really, they're making use of the newer henchmen Orbot and Cubot, why not use Metal alongside them?

[UltDevilDoom]

If Metal Sonic joined Orbot and Cubot, I'd laugh, and then I'd cry. Those two are so annoying, and it's probably on purpose!

Eggman himself really needs to get back on track in the villian role. He was never really that intimidating, but he's little more than a joke in terms of personality now.

[Briraka]

Really? Blowing up the planet, turning his enemy into a werehog, enslaving cute alien critters, and warping time aren't intimidating?

Eggman has some quirks, but he is anything but a non threat.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

If Metal Sonic joined Orbot and Cubot, I'd laugh, and then I'd cry. Those two are so annoying, and it's probably on purpose!

Eggman himself really needs to get back on track in the villain role. He was never really that intimidating, but he's little more than a joke in terms of personality now.

What exactly defines a "true" villain for you?

Edited June 16, 2012 by Enigmatus

[Burnt Ash]

If Metal Sonic joined Orbot and Cubot, I'd laugh, and then I'd cry. Those two are so annoying, and it's probably on purpose!

Eggman himself really needs to get back on track in the villian role. He was never really that intimidating, but he's little more than a joke in terms of personality now.

To be honest, Eggman is fine as is, but if there's anything that we're missing, it's the extent that we know what Eggman is doing. Some games, we're given a great but not overly detailed description of Eggman's plan, and in other games (more of the recent ones)...well, we don't see much of his plan (or him) at all. That's the part I hate, not Eggman's ability to be menacing

Edited June 16, 2012 by Burnt Ash

[SenEDDtor Missile]

If there is one thing I do feel I need to say about Eggman, it's that the level backgrounds do not do a good job showing just how much damage he can cause.

Example, in (my favorite game) Unleashed, he destroyed the world. And yet the levels we go through are pristine and relatively clean, despite the fact that the world got torn to pieces.

In Generations, despite the White World being a part of the level shtick, it's influence is minimal at best in the actual levels themselves.

I don't think it would hurt to make the levels reflect the actual damage dealt to it by the villains.

Back on Topic:

Metal Sonic needs to be used more for me to even CONSIDER him a threat, because so far, his reputation is an Informed Trait, nothing more.

Shadow is currently a smug bastard who might have good intentions for when he really needs it,. but is a jerk in most cases.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yo, this is the Shadow Topic. Metal Sonic has nothing to do with this, and I'm not sure how Eggman was brought up either.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Yo, this is the Shadow Topic. Metal Sonic has nothing to do with this, and I'm not sure how Eggman was brought up either.

I forgot. I see the "Shadow Topic" and I keep thinking it's the "Metal Vs Shadow" topic.

[UltDevilDoom]

Let's just say I miss the Sonic Adventure 2 Eggman. Just the way he acts doesn't seem that intimidating. He still has his moments of grand destruction and his robots are still deadly (fighting the Egg Dragoon on hard mode in Generations was badass), but I just wish that he would be a little less comical sometimes.

Alright, back to Shadow because it is a Shadow topic.

I really hope to see more of Shadow at Sonic Boom. Hopefully, Sega will announce the long-rumored Sonic Adventure 2 download. It's possible that they will have a new game announcement as well. We'll see.

[Eggman Robuttnik]

Hi I'm a big time shadow fan and the thing I like most about him is the way he brought a the darkness of the series in his story and makeshift plot about revenge, the truth, and alot of determination. Like Miles Edgeworth and Zero did, I'd like to see Shadow get another chance at the spotlight as the resident anti hero. His potential as a storyline is almost endless. We have from him the GUN, Gerald and Eggman's own storyline, Humans play a more extensive role in the sonic games, the space colony ark which may be a extension to more space drama, and Shadow's own character which seperates himself from Sonic in almost every way and gives us more characterisation and less safety with the typical Sonic plot.

[Eggman Robuttnik]

Shadow reminds of Ky Kisuke somewhat but is hyped like Sol Bad Guy.

[Nepenthe]

Shadow reminds of Ky Kisuke somewhat but is hyped like Sol Bad Guy.

 

Hello Eggman. I know you're new here, so just giving a heads-up that double-posting isn't necessary in most topics and is usually considered spam, which is against the rules. If you want to add something else to a topic and you've posted last, simply edit the post you've already made. xP

[FireBird75]

Shadow the Hedgehog. Now here's a character I can sink my thoughts into seeing as he's my second favorite character and no.2 in overall popularity.

I found him to be a very interesting character in SA2, where he at first was avenger for his departed best friend and was willing to assist Eggman in his goals while at the same time achieving his own. His beef with Sonic throughout the game (especially the dialogue before the second fight) was also very cool.  Then came his Heel Face Turn in the last story, where Amy (in her own CMOA) was able to convince Shadow to help save humanity and remind Shadow of what Maria Robotnik truly wished for Shadow to accomplish. After saving the Earth from destruction, Shadow apparently fell toward the Earth and died (a decision I still have questions about) but alas Shadow's story arc was complete...or at least it would be if he wasn't brought back in the next game.

 

Here, in Sonic Heroes, Shadow is trying to find out about his past and what exactly is he.  He could've asked Rouge about his past but that wouldn't answer what he was as she was unsure herself. (The Shadow androids didn't help things either).

This leads in to the next game, named after Shadow himself.  Here, Shadow is still trying to find answers and after dealing with aliens, GUN, Sonic and co.,Eggman, extreme angst, harsh levels, pointless multiple endings, and daddy issues, Shadow decides to forget his past and move on with his life after finding out the truth from Black Doom, Gerald Robotnik, and Eggman (9+ minutes into the final fight )

 

Next, we have Shadow rescuing Rouge, working for GUN of all things, and battling the Sonic Series' equivalent of the Devil. Aaaaaannnnd... it was retconned. Next.

 

The Rivals Series.  Now Shadow finds himself working for (with?) Eggman (& Metal Sonic in the second game) but this time to stop a mysterious threat.  This something I also have come to like as here we have Shadow as a protagonist but he still has his own agenda.  He wants to help out but he does so in his own way and does whatever he deems necessary in accomplishing his goals even if it means working with Eggman again.  I believe Shadow should be handled this way in future titles.  Shadow may be not the true blue (no pun intended) hero that Sonic is but he can still be the badass antihero that his fans love and other fans can appreciate.

[CSW]

Shadow the Hedgehog wil always be Number One to me. He actually has a story of his background and is a serious character. Being Sonic's rival, he practicly don't have time for Sonic, really lol. His themed game, 'Shadow the Hedgehog' could of been better than it appears. The multiple amount of story paths kinda seem unnecessary in a way, but that's a game from 2005.... I'm point gonna touch on the gameplay. (Dear lord.... )

 

 

I really hope no one bashes me for this, but I did like Jason Griffith as Shadow. The video wasn't.... that.... bad.   Although, Kirk Thornton was a great choice for next-gen titles.... Well that ends my two cents....

 

(I have such little say on forum site nowadays....)