So... What's so Bad About the Series' Current Direction?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I think a common problem before was, as said, they seemed to be trying too hard to make each character top the last, and make one that was cooler, hipper and more badass, usually with some cliched gimmick. It was probably this that led to Sonic suffering the 'Mickey Mouse' effect, looking kinda bland comparatively, not to mention some characters also taking his defining personality traits.

 Yes. Also his personality. Like take Amy for example. Alot of her fans say shes the heart of the franchise and shes more humane the Sonic will ever be. But... that trait was actually a trait of Sonic's because he was orginal the heart of the franchise. But its better when Cream or Amy inspire characters because only girls can inspire and Sonic has no heart. Which was a reason why I said that Sonic should have been the one to remind Shadow of Marias wish. And he inspired many characters.

 

There are other examples, like Knuckles and his toughness and Silver with his strong sense of justice that are also defineing of Sonic.

[spinny]

Which was a reason why I said that Sonic should have been the one to remind Shadow of Marias wish. And he inspired many characters.

 

The fact is, the reason Amy was chosen for that one scene wasn't because of reminding Shadow of the wish-- the "please do it for them" happened to remind him of Maria.

 

Amy went up to him in hopes to show that there is a lot of good in the world through her optimism whilst Sonic and Knuckles were busy elsewhere in the ARK.

 

 

  But... that trait was actually a trait of Sonic's because he was orginal the heart of the franchise.

 

In all honesty, I can really only name two characters in the main series that Sonic has literally inspired, and I mean actually tried to and changed their ways, Tails (as seen through how he admired Sonic and wished to grow up and be like him in his SA1 flashbacks) and Blaze in Rush, helping her open up a bit more (and even then, part of that was to go to Cream).

 

Really, no offence intended, but I don't understand this "he's influenced so many characters thing". He's quite popular in the gang yes, but I wouldn't say he's influenced that many.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

He has inspired Tails to be himself on adventures when it comes to buliding things, Amy to go on her own adventures and see the world, Knuckles to adventure and not be tricked so easily, Blaze to not be stubborn and know theres nothing wrong with asking for help, Elise to get herself out of situations, Sharhra to do what she truely thinks is that right thing, Merlina to stop her evil ways and even Marine in realizing her flaws and what she needs to work on before going on adventures.

 

In Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic remindsShadow to be careful and dont be cocky so he does want to help. He also, when you play the dark missions, that he cant let Shadow go on the way he was thinking, showing that Sonic was worried about Shadow and his irratinal choices. Sometimes I think Sonic has lit a spark in Shadow to keep going on the hero mission, a small spark that is.

 

And no, its not because I dont like one character. Thats NOT it at all and someone try to say that in another thread I posted. But rather, because other characters have Sonics ablity to inspire, not alot of people think hes "humane" :-/

[E-122-Psi]

Eh, I don't mind other characters having 'heart' qualities, Sonic can be wisdomic and compassionate, but the emotional and sensitive displays likely fit someone else. At least he wasn't robbed of it as blatantly as other medias. Nearly EVERY hero in the two comics are Closer To Earth than he is.

 

Not to mention some complain Amy got the same treatment, she used to be sweet but hot headed little girl. But then Cream arrived to do the sweet caring little kid act, so Amy often got reduced to just her negative qualities like her overzealous crush and bad temper. Similarly Tails lost most of his childlike qualities and no longer had his fly move as a defining ability anymore. With her god modded Cheese, Cream was basically him but better (though it could be considered slight karma given how he compared to Sonic beforehand).

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I dont mind others having hearts. I mean theres a reason why Tails and Silver are my favorites along with Sonic. Because of their sense of justice and naive personality. Plus Tails has 300 IQ. My problem is that I dislike when people say Sonic isnt humane or say others are a human version of him when... he does have a heart

[spinny]

He has inspired Tails to be himself on adventures when it comes to buliding things

 

Blaze to not be stubborn and know theres nothing wrong with asking for help

 

I said these two.

 

 

Amy to go on her own adventures and see the world, Knuckles to adventure and not be tricked so easily

 

I don't recall hard proof of these in the slightest. The reason Amy went adventuring starting with SA1 was because of Sonic "WHAT YOU MUST BE KIDDING", leading into the "I guess we're just gonna tag along anyway". I wouldn't call that good inspiration. It's a homeless bird and Sonic's like "no way José".

 

 

Knuckles to adventure and not be tricked so easily

 

...I don't see this in the slightest. Knuckles went around adventuring when the M.E. was shattered in SA1 by Eggman and Chaos got away, leading Knuckles to believe Chaos was behind it all. Sonic wasn't even involved in the story at the point Knuckles began searching for the emerald pieces.  And really, he still is gullible. It's one of his main traits, in all honesty. See Advance 2 and 3 which followed ages after Sonic and Knuckles first met. Simply put, Knuckles doesn't learn, and that's a part of his charm to most.

 

 

Elise to get herself out of situations, Sharhra to do what she truely thinks is that right thing, Merlina to stop her evil ways

 

We don't see these three ever again so we don't know how long the effect truly did last, and looking deep into the story in Elise's case, it seems like such a shocking yank on the leash to advance in plot development that... I really can't take it seriously. I will give you the fact that Shahra and Merlina were done well with their interaction with Sonic, however.

 

 

Marine in realizing her flaws and what she needs to work on before going on adventures.

 

This one, I can actually agree with you on, due to the plot actually evening throughout the game, even though as I said before, I was referring strictly to the main console games. 

 

 

And no, its not because I dont like one character. Thats NOT it at all and someone try to say that in another thread I posted. But rather, because other characters have Sonics ablity to inspire, not alot of people think hes "humane" :-/

 

Look, I don't recall any of us saying Sonic's inhumane because others can inspire too. Sonic inspires others as much as any good man would in the real life world, it's natural... and I don't want it going over the top, I want it to stay natural, personally.

[Dr. Mechano]

I actually find western cartoon Sonic to be insufferably annoying, because his arrogance isn't balanced by any meaningful foibles or character flaws. He always came across as a total cheeseball, which is fine, but the cartoons' narrative framed him as being this unflappable bastion of coolness without a shred of irony.

 

The modern games seem a little more self-aware than the cartoons did, which I like a lot. Sonic is still arrogant and full of himself, but he's checked by being occasionally called out for his lame jokes and overblown ego. The narrative acknowledges Sonic's cheesiness and plays it for laughs, all without going too far and making Sonic a total parody of himself. Sonic is kind of dorky and thinks he's a lot cooler than he is, which in a meta-sense actually does make him legitimately cool and likable, unlike his obnoxious cartoon counterpart.

[Kuzu]

It really all comes down to what parts of the character are in focus at the time. There are times when Sonic is really full of himself and thinks he can take on the world, and there are times when he's more humane and humble. In games like the Adventure series and the storybook games, Sonic deals with far more serious threats and consequences, so naturally he's more focused on that, but not without getting a little bit of snark around here and there.

 

In games like Sonic Colors, Generations and Lost World. He's dealing with far more mundane threats than in aforementioned games. So, Sonic can just chill out and have fun doing what he does best. Throw jokes around, and just be a goofball.

 

 

 

Just because some parts of his character are more focused on than others doesn't mean he's this flanderized, hatable piece of garbage, nor does it mean he's this boring, unflappable superman. Its called being a "Three-Dimensional Character" people, ya know. When a character has more facets to their personality than just one or two traits that we constantly see? Some people like seeing Sonic as a more straight laced heroes with barely any flaws, others like seeing him being a dork and brought down by the people around him.  That doesn't suddenly mean anything that doesn't conform to those views is somehow "wrong" or worthy of contempt.

 

The mud slinging I've seen in this thread for the past 8 pages is why I didn't even bother to post until now; its like people have this "black & white" mentality when it comes to how they want the characters to be, and don't tolerate any deviation.

 

 

Sonic is a character who has an arrogant streak, he loves to taunt his enemies, hear the sound of his own voice, and can playfully rib on his friends. But when the time comes, he can be serious about a threat too and show a more open and caring side with people. Neither of this will always be prominent, but its there. Sonic doesn't need to spout one liners in every cutscene for us to know that he's cocky, and he doesn't need to constantly be this serious, kindhearted Jesus figure for us to know that he's a good guy.

[Space☆Tomoki]

Storytelling has never been the pinnacle of the Sonic series, but Colors onwards is like a bare-bones Saturday morning cartoon. Sure you got arguably better/worse characterization and improved character interaction to some extent, but it doesn't mean much to me if the story itself is predictable, bland, and half-baked. I really wish the Sonic series had more thought and effort put into its stories, as well as pretty much everything else.

 

But story is just one problem for this series (and, quite frankly has pretty much always has been), the biggest problem stems from a fundamental level: the gameplay. The series no longer has an identity, so every few years or so, they revamp it dramatically into something else entirely. The latest is Lost World, which copies Mario in all the wrong ways, without thinking about why Mario games do so well in reception amongst critics and Sonic does not. Lost World remembers that Sonic is a platformer, but threw out the build up of speed and retaining momentum out the window unless you used the Spin Dash. Sonic is supposed to be a speedy platformer, not a generic one. For God's sake, most of the level tropes were copy and pasted from Mario, and the Deadly Six are just reskins of Bowser and the Koopa Kids, and the gameplay itself tries to copy Mario Galaxy in some ways. The game is trying too hard to be psuedo-classic and Mario at the same time, leaving much to be desired.

 

Oh hey, look, there's parkour and a run button! Too bad parkour is highly limited to 90-angled surfaces, and not very satisfying to use, while the run button only allows you to run at a certain fixed (slow) speed.

 

And another problem: power-ups. Remember how the elemental shields didn't change Sonic's fundamental abilities and controls, and instead just gave him an extra move, and will last until you either get hit, or touch a certain conflicting element? Mario power-ups do that too, more or less. But NOPE, let's change how Sonic plays COMPLETELY by giving him power ups that control awkwardly as hell, like it's some weird, in-level mini-game that adds nothing to the level design, in Lost World's case, at least. I'm speaking of course, of those godawful Color Powers and Wisps.

 

Bring back the shields as the main power-ups for Sonic, improve upon them, and hell, make new shields for Sonic to use. Then design levels with these in mind, without making them feel forced, by adding as many alternate paths as possible in each stage, giving the player a certain sense a freedom of how they want to beat the stage.

 

I'm heading off to work now, but this pretty much all I have to say on the matter.

[StaticMania]

I actually find western cartoon Sonic to be insufferably annoying, because his arrogance isn't balanced by any meaningful foibles or character flaws. He always came across as a total cheeseball, which is fine, but the cartoons' narrative framed him as being this unflappable bastion of coolness without a shred of irony.

It's mainly have Sonic SATAM and maybe Sonic Underground to blame for that because for some reason a Character like Sonc always has to be obnoxiously reckless/clueless and always has to be in the wrong, with little to no effort on showing otherwise.

[Lady Soniko]

^^^ It also has a lot to do with who is voicing Sonic as well, depending on how they deliver his lines with attitude and emotion is also heavily part of the reason why people find characters dislikeable, Underground and SatAM were literally in the prime of 90's morning cartoons, so they have that cheesy, obnoxious flare to them.

 

But generally talking about the games, I just want to like Roger Craig's performance, but I can't bring myself to even remotely like his Sonic voice no matter how hard I try, it rubs me the wrong way and it's like nails on a chalk board compared to Griffith or even Drummond, it doesn't help that Sonic seems so flat and purposely obnoxious in recent games (Barring Sonic 4.1/2 and Gens) For the first time ever, I'd actually prefer Sonic to shutting the fuck up, because he drives me barmy with this new personality trait he's took on, it's not a flaw as you all call it, it's obnoxious and Sonic is so transparent with his feelings, he doesn't carry his emotions through from cut scene to cut scene, it's just a "for the current events of THIS cutscene" rather than. "for a collective of the game, where his emotions being highly strung on his worries for his friends creates a form of hindrance for him, as well as a focus on his personality and ability to deal with something that is his fault due to his haphazard nature of running into things without thinking".

 

Just once, can we have a side to Sonic that stays consistent to the current game events instead of him cracking his dorky jokes, or trying hard to maintain his cool self, or just actually taking the time to shut up and take shit seriously? This is where I feel new Sonic and his new voice fall flat on their face, because as long as Sonic acts and sounds like he currently does, then no I can't take him seriously, and I honestly won't be surprised if SEGA will keep the silly Sonic for future games. I'll generally be surprised if we ever get anything similar to the storybook games in a mainstream game.

[Kuzu]

But generally talking about the games, I just want to like Roger Craig's performance, but I can't bring myself to even remotely like his Sonic voice no matter how hard I try, it rubs me the wrong way and it's like nails on a chalk board compared to Griffith or even Drummond, it doesn't help that Sonic seems so flat and purposely obnoxious in recent games (Barring Sonic 4.1/2 and Gens) For the first time ever, I'd actually prefer Sonic to shutting the fuck up, because he drives me barmy with this new personality trait he's took on, it's not a flaw as you all call it, it's obnoxious and Sonic is so transparent with his feelings, he doesn't carry his emotions through from cut scene to cut scene, it's just a "for the current events of THIS cutscene" rather than. "for a collective of the game, where his emotions being highly strung on his worries for his friends creates a form of hindrance for him, as well as a focus on his personality and ability to deal with something that is his fault due to his haphazard nature of running into things without thinking".

 

See, this is what I was talking about tho. Sonic apparently isn't allowed to have more than one emotion at any given time? How does that make a character three dimensional? The fact that he can go from one mood to another would kind of imply that he's got a lot more to him than if he was just stuck in a default mood for an entirety of a game. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I do get where you're coming from. In Sonic Colors, Sonic spends the entire game joking around and then in one cutscene(The factory scene) the game expects us, the viewers to take it seriously, which doesn't really work because the game didn't bother to develop the conflict enough for us to give a shit about it. In LW however, even if it wasn't done as well as I'd hope, does it far better than Colors. We see the consequences of Sonic's impulsive actions and what effects it has(Tails getting kidnapped, losing Knuckles and Amy, etc.) and Sonic's mood changes as a result. Its not a haphazard development that comes from nowhere, its a genuine development for the character that took place that sadly was not given the proper conclusion it needed to really sell it, which is my main problem really.

 

But even so, saying "Oh well, Sonic's mood changes so much so it doesn't count as a REAL flaw" doesn't really gell with me. Sonic's attitude doesn't need to be consistent to be believable or likable, a person's mood changes depending on their experiences and based on Sonic's in Lost World, its a pretty damm believable that Sonic would start taking shit seriously when he realizes just what the hell he's caused. Hell, it'd be a problem if he didn't change his mood after those events taking place.

 

 

If you're problem is voice acting, then hey, I got nothing on that. A character's voice changes depending on how the script, so even if Sonic was still voiced by Griffith, I doubt anyone would be changing their mind about the current writing.

[Lady Soniko]

But that's the thing, SLW did a terrible job with expressing Sonic's emotions due to the events that occur, it's really all over the place in terms of concept, sure there was that scene where he's all alone, yet it felt so devoid of any emotion and cut-in, expecting us to feel sorry for something that he caused, so I was expecting Sonic to you know, at least carry that depression through to the next cutscene, which he didn't. The game sets you up with these big events, but then mellow them down into case scenarios of  "Nahh, it wasn't THAT bad, chill out." When in hind sight, it is. Knuckles and Amy are apparently dying below, and Amy is struggling to speak her final message to Sonic, which honestly moved me because she was cut short before she finished what she wanted to say, but did Sonic feel the same way? Lol no, of course he didn't and that made Sonic incredibly dislikeable in that scene to the point of me not feeling sorry for him from his lack of emotion during a touching time.

 

This could of all been remedied at the end of the game if Sonic put his assy "me me me" self on the side lines to make sure his FRIENDS were ok, maybe even you know a group hug or some soppy shit with Sonic looking happy and relieved, but no, he pushes through them, TIME TO SLEEP.

 

If this were Sonic X or a storybook game, I'd expect Sonic to have more manners, and at least care for his friends safety, not to shrug it off because he saved the day again.

[Kuzu]

But that's the thing, SLW did a terrible job with expressing Sonic's emotions due to the events that occur, it's really all over the place in terms of concept, sure there was that scene where he's all alone, yet it felt so devoid of any emotion and cut-in, expecting us to feel sorry for something that he caused, so I was expecting Sonic to you know, at least carry that depression through to the next cutscene, which he didn't. The game sets you up with these big events, but then mellow them down into case scenarios of  "Nahh, it wasn't THAT bad, chill out." When in hind sight, it is. Knuckles and Amy are apparently dying below, and Amy is struggling to speak her final message to Sonic, which honestly moved me because she was cut short before she finished what she wanted to say, but did Sonic feel the same way? Lol no, of course he didn't and that made Sonic incredibly dislikeable in that scene to the point of me not feeling sorry for him from his lack of emotion during a touching time.

 

This could of all been remedied at the end of the game if Sonic put his assy "me me me" self on the side lines to make sure his FRIENDS were ok, maybe even you know a group hug or some soppy shit with Sonic looking happy and relieved, but no, he pushes through them, TIME TO SLEEP.

 

If this were Sonic X or a storybook game, I'd expect Sonic to have more manners, and at least care for his friends safety, not to shrug it off because he saved the day again.

 

...The hell are you talking about? Sonic never once downplayed what happened to Knuckles or Amy. When Amy was cut off, Sonic calls out her name in desperation and then proceeds to continue to chase Zavok and tries once again to contact Amy and Knuckles to no avail at which point, he realizes that he's all alone having lost Tails, and Eggman up to that point. Its a believable scene because it emphasizes that Sonic has lost everything, and when he finally reaches the remaining Deadly Six, he's very clearly not happy to see them.

 

Granted, he could have had a stronger reaction to them considering the events that took place, and that once again was the product of the game's lackluster third act(seriously, fuck that ending). But I wouldn't say that Sonic was being selfish because if was, he would have never tried to contact Amy or Knuckles in the first place, or try to desperately call out to them. 

 

Everything you listed does not sound like selfish actions, but just a shitty way they wrapped up the game. Which I'll admit, is very much true in that regard.

[Lady Soniko]

He called out their names sure, but I wouldn't say in desperation, that was a poor performance on Roger's front where he could of made me believe Sonic was incredibly concerned, but meh, no.

 

The games ending was horrendous yeah, I don't know I just didn't enjoy the interaction as much as I wanted to, partly because I still hate the voices. I really liked the Deadly Six as characters, but the fact they were SEGA versions of the Koopa gang really was disappointing, especially when Zavok showed some incredible potential to be a big bad, scary villain. The game evidently, was merely wrapped up and forced Eggman as the true bad guy to try and throw a change of direction in how they wanted you to believe the game was going to end, but failed miserably with a crappy, anti-climatic boss fight (love the design though)

 

Uuurgh, SEGA just frustrate me to great lengths with failing to deliver anything.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Of course, Sonics been through alot in this game and hes the main hero he deserves a nap. And Sonics one of the most selfless characters in this series wwww

[azoo]

I think another good reason why I see Sonic as much more 'annoying' now might be the voice? Roger's tone barely ever changes when doing Sonic's voice, it only goes between "a teency bit emotive" and "loud and brash, dude". And yeah I know Griffith was much worse at that than RCS is in that regard, but just because it was the lesser of two bads doesn't make the lesser bad good, I guess.

[Lady Soniko]

Tired or not, he should of put being concerned over his friends before a nap, that shows a bit of selfishness.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Im not one to wine about voice actors but Sonics new voice makes him sound more mature while also being not so mature at the same time. His mature is in his heart his immature is in what he does to make others happy

[Kuzu]

Roger's voice is really just something to get used to I suppose, because I've never had a problem with how he's sounded because I really can't think of one to list. Not saying he's perfect, but there's really nothing bad I can say about him that doesn't apply to any of Sonic's other actors, and Roger has the benefit of already having prior experience with voice acting.

 

What specifically is that you don't like about him? The sound of his voice? How he acts for Sonic? The script he's been given? I'm really trying to understand the hate for this guy.

[Lady Soniko]

A bit of everything really, it's just not the type of voice I expected Sonic to have, partly due to how he's written currently, but also how he sounds, like Azookara said, he's so...Flat and samey, lacks emotion and just doesn't play as Sonic well. His talents in his other voices are much better than Sonic, what gives?

[azoo]

Roger's voice is really just something to get used to I suppose, because I've never had a problem with how he's sounded because I really can't think of one to list. Not saying he's perfect, but there's really nothing bad I can say about him that doesn't apply to any of Sonic's other actors, and Roger has the benefit of already having prior experience with voice acting.

 

What specifically is that you don't like about him? The sound of his voice? The way he acts? The script he's been given? I'm really trying to understand the hate for this guy.

 

You know how Jason Griffith has that... weird way he says things?

 

"HeY gUys, hoW's it GoinG?"

Roger does it too, and it sounds pretty dumb. XD I dunno if Sega directs them to do it like that, they only hire people who'll portray Sonic like that, or I don't know.

 

Its all that plus his lack of good range and stuff we've all talked about in the topic before. 

[Lady Soniko]

I also hate Sonic's new personality, especially when I grew up with Attitudey, arrogant Sonic from the Adventure era where everything was all "WOOOAH DUDE, RADICAL AWESOME COOL STUFF MAAAAN" So it's probably personal bias speaking.

[Silver*]

What specifically is that you don't like about him? The sound of his voice? How he acts for Sonic? The script he's been given? I'm really trying to understand the hate for this guy.

 

I think what it comes down to is that he isn't Ryan Drummond or Jason Griffith. The funny part is that for YEARS, fans have been bitching and moaning about Jason Griffith and his voice for Sonic for the long wrong. Sega finally gets go of him and replaces him with a voice actor with more experiance and has VA'd for high profile animes and now everyone wants Griffith back. lol

 

Not just him, but all the other Sonic voice actors. I've seen many people on youtube that Shadow's new voice makes them want to try and cut themselves. I don't care for Shadow's voice either but really? You (in general) complained about it before hand...

[azoo]

I think what it comes down to is that he isn't Ryan Drummond or Jason Griffith. The funny part is that for YEARS, fans have been bitching and moaning about Jason Griffith and his voice for Sonic for the long wrong. Sega finally gets go of him and replaces him with a voice actor with more experiance and has VA'd for high profile animes and now everyone wants Griffith back. lol

 

You know, I really dislike when people generalize it as if nostalgia is the only reason somebody likes something. It's like de-constructing and de-legitimizing their opinion that has as much solid ground as your own.

 

And I mean don't get me wrong because some people do simply do it because it's what they grew up with and how dare you, but to take someone's argument and chop it up as "lol they just don't like change" even after they've given reasons for why they believe what they do, its like you just don't want to accept that what they're saying could be an informed opinion.