So... What's so Bad About the Series' Current Direction?

[Kuzu]

You know how Jason Griffith has that... weird way he says things?

 

"HeY gUys, hoW's it GoinG?"

Roger does it too, and it sounds pretty dumb. XD I dunno if Sega directs them to do it like that, they only hire people who'll portray Sonic like that, or I don't know.

 

Its all that plus his lack of good range and stuff we've all talked about in the topic before. 

Well like I said, its the same complaint, soooo.....

 

All of Sonic's actors have their flaws, I just find Smith to be the least flawed of them. Because ya know, he actually can act. 

 

In terms of range, well what are you referring to by that? 

 

 

 

I also hate Sonic's new personality, especially when I grew up with Attitudey, arrogant Sonic from the Adventure era where everything was all "WOOOAH DUDE, RADICAL AWESOME COOL STUFF MAAAAN" So it's probably personal bias speaking.

 

I don't wanna call the 'nostalgia' card, but Sonic doesn't seem to have any less of an attitude than he did back in Adventure. And this is coming from a guy who's first Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2. Back in the day, I thought everything Sonic said was cool because  I was an 8 year old boy, looking back...yea it was kinda stupid, but I still enjoy it in a "So bad, its good" sorta way, which is partially why I tolerate Sonic now. They stopped trying to play his coolness seriously, and lampoon it instead. 

[Silver*]

You know, I really dislike when people generalize it as if nostalgia is the only reason somebody likes something. It's like de-constructing and de-legitimizing their opinion that has as much solid ground as your own.

 

And I mean don't get me wrong because some people do simply do it because it's what they grew up with and how dare you, but to take someone's argument and chop it up as "lol they just don't like change" even after they've given reasons for why they believe what they do, its like you just don't want to accept that what they're saying could be an informed opinion.

 

First, I'm not like that. I do accept all opinion even though you (in general) might not accept most of mine. If it is a legit reason such as "A doesn't capture Sonic's personality like B does" than it's different. I'm talking about the ones I've seen where they bitch about the VAs just to bitch.

 

I aplohize if I came off as a smart-ass but I am not saying I don't accept opinions.

[azoo]

Well like I said, its the same complaint, soooo.....

 

All of Sonic's actors have their flaws, I just find Smith to be the least flawed of them. Because ya know, he actually can act. 

 

In terms of range, well what are you referring to by that?

 

I don't really see how Drummond couldn't act (cuz the Adventure games suffered more from a bad voice coach (Lani Minella))?

 

I was just listening over Sonic's dialogue in SA2 and I thought the range was pretty good. His voice can get pretty low-down, serious in tone, angry, jokey, and sad; as well as loud and excited and goofy or badass. His lines didn't really follow this consistent rhythmic pattern with sentence structure like RCS or Griffith's Sonic tended to follow, and I thought it made it feel a bit more natural. I mean, it wasn't the best thing ever either, but I find Drummond the least flawed given what he had to work with.

 

I don't wanna call the 'nostalgia' card, but Sonic doesn't seem to have any less of an attitude than he did back in Adventure. And this is coming from a guy who's first Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2. Back in the day, I thought everything Sonic said was cool because  I was an 8 year old boy, looking back...yea it was kinda stupid, but I still enjoy it in a "So bad, its good" sorta way, which is partially why I tolerate Sonic now. They stopped trying to play his coolness seriously, and lampoon it instead.

 

I don't really like the idea of lampooning. I like them doing lampshade hanging on how silly/cheesy some of his lines are, but making it where an entire part of his personality is the joke I kind of find grating.

It's like watching the bad anime parody dub where the character that says all the funniest quips is made over-the-top of what was already over-the-top (without a meta-sense of irony, I mean). Some people will find that funny or just fine, and some will find it obnoxious as all hell.

 

First, I'm not like that. I do accept all opinion even though you (in general) might not accept most of mine. If it is a legit reason such as "A doesn't capture Sonic's personality like B does" than it's different. I'm talking about the ones I've seen where they bitch about the VAs just to bitch.

 

I aplohize if I came off as a smart-ass but I am not saying I don't accept opinions.

 

It's cool, it's cool, you're cool. I just made that point because I know that argument is sometimes used by folk to disregard arguments like the one I'm trying to make.

[Kuzu]

I don't really see how Drummond couldn't act (cuz the Adventure games suffered more from a bad voice coach (Lani Minella))?

 

I was just listening over Sonic's dialogue in SA2 and I thought the range was pretty good. His voice can get pretty low-down, serious in tone, angry, jokey, and sad; as well as loud and excited and goofy or badass. His lines didn't really follow this consistent rhythmic pattern with sentence structure like RCS or Griffith's Sonic tended to follow, and I thought it made it feel a bit more natural. I mean, it wasn't the best thing ever either, but I find Drummond the least flawed given what he had to work with.

 

And I apply this logic to Smith as well with the script he's given. Just because he's directed to act like that doesn't mean he can't do anything else, and those rare moments when Sonic does act in a different manner its pretty good.

 

With Ryan Drummond, yea I'll agree that he was on point in SA2. But that's the only time I can say he was actually pretty good with Sonic. In Adventure, he wasn't that good, and in Heroes my problem was, ironically, the current problem you're having with Smith at the moment, in that he's only constrained to one specific tone.

 

With Smith, all three games he's been in he does pretty well. He captures the daredevil, arrogant, and fun loving side of Sonic that was missing for a long time within the character. He had a pretty somber moment when he reassured Tails they would rescue the Wisp, and before the scene was ruined by dragging on for way too long, I thought his "Mess you up line" in the Asteroid Coaster boss was pretty badass. Lost World is probably his best performance yet, because he makes Sonic sound desperate, sad, and relieved while still keeping the arrogant edge. I give Smith a slight bit more cred because he's consistent with his take on Sonic, while Griffith and Drummond, whom definitely had their moments of greatness, tended to fluctuate widely with how they acted for Sonic. Consistency is a large reason on why I like Smith so much for Sonic because its something that the series was lacking for a good number of years.

[-Mark-]

Phew, glad to see the minority of people who dislike Roger's take on Sonic is a bit bigger than I thought it was.

 

Seriously, I was confused to hell and back in 2010 when pretty much everyone and their grandmother instantly fell in love with Roger's Sonic voice. I haven't got used to it and it hasn't grown on me at all. Even though I play the games in Japanese, I make a point of watching all the cutscenes in English for the sake of having a fair opinion on them. 

 

I just think Roger is completely miscast for the role. The voice is far too low and it sounds like he's shouting almost all the time with the tone that he uses, which makes it very hard for him to emote anything other than loud-mouthed arrogance convincingly, and when he does try it generally sounds incredibly false and insincere. 

 

I'd actually say Jason is my favourite English voice for Sonic- yes, he was fucking terrible at times, but his biggest problem was consistency issues. In some cases he actually did a pretty damn good job. The fact he was so inconsistent suggests bad directing more than anything, since he's shown that he is actually capable of doing a really good job... sometimes.

[Kuzu]

Phew, glad to see the minority of people who dislike Roger's take on Sonic is a bit bigger than I thought it was.

 

Seriously, I was confused to hell and back in 2010 when pretty much everyone and their grandmother instantly fell in love with Roger's Sonic voice.

 

Opinions man, how do they work :V

[Soniman]

People criticize Roger for only being able to give Sonic a loud and obnoxious voice. Yet in that Knuckles and Amy death scene, Sonic was shown to be able to speak in a prettily low somber tone just fine, so I don't know why people believe that Roger can only give one emotional type for the character, that really made it seem like it's direction more than anything and I believe that he certainly does have the emotional range to pull it off if he wanted to.

 

As for Drummond, like Azure I only really give him props in SA2 because that's when he was at his best. He improved from his rather unprofessional SA1 Voice but wasn't constrained by the "only one emotion" Heroes voice. Griffith was always pretty awful to me, I'm sorry but I just don't like it. I think I tolerated it back in the day because he voiced in so many games and I just tried to force myself to tolerate it, but looking back on it, I just think he sucks.

[azoo]

And I apply this logic to Smith as well with the script he's given. Just because he's directed to act like that doesn't mean he can't do anything else, and those rare moments when Sonic does act in a different manner its pretty good.

 

With Ryan Drummond, yea I'll agree that he was on point in SA2. But that's the only time I can say he was actually pretty good with Sonic. In Adventure, he wasn't that good, and in Heroes my problem was, ironically, the current problem you're having with Smith at the moment, in that he's only constrained to one specific tone.

 

With Smith, all three games he's been in he does pretty well. He captures the daredevil, arrogant, and fun loving side of Sonic that was missing for a long time within the character. He had a pretty somber moment when he reassured Tails they would rescue the Wisp, and before the scene was ruined by dragging on for way too long, I thought his "Mess you up line" in the Asteroid Coaster boss was pretty badass. Lost World is probably his best performance yet, because he makes Sonic sound desperate, sad, and relieved while still keeping the arrogant edge. I give Smith a slight bit more cred because he's consistent with his take on Sonic, while Griffith and Drummond, whom definitely had their moments of greatness, tended to fluctuate widely with how they acted for Sonic. Consistency is a large reason on why I like Smith so much for Sonic because its something that the series was lacking for a good number of years.

 

Yeah, but I guess for RCS it's not just the delivery to me. I also just don't really like his voice for Sonic either. Drummond's Sonic has this different.. tone, or texture to it, if you know what I mean. It's hard to explain. I just like the way his voice sounds more than Roger's. I guess it's because it sounds more emotionally varied, and youthful? Or something?

 

Of course when I think of Drummond's limitations, I also remember when we found out that Drummond went for the role as Sonic and wound up doing better than Roger, but couldn't take the job because of being in union work or something. I guess I'm a bit salty over that, since I mean.. if Lani Minella really was messing with his delivery in the past, and he ended up in his current auditions as even better than Roger, then I could only dream to hear what it sounds like. XD

[Lady Soniko]

When I think of Jason, I always think of the Mazuri introduction cut scene where Sonic is all "thanks for that skydiving lesson Eggman!" Just screams sass and disrespect, I love it.

 

I've yet to find even one moment like that with Roger as Sonic, I always either roll my eyes, or cringe at his performances. 

[SonicFanForever]

As much as Sonic Lost World had problems, I still quite enjoyed playing it. I collected all the red rings and still play the better levels in the game from time to time.

 

Sure, it's a tad disappointing after Generations, which was a pretty great game, but it's hardly the end of the world...or the Sonic franchise for that matter.

 

Sonic Colours, Sonic All Stars Racing, Sonic Generations, Sonic All Stars Transformed. Hey, that's a pretty good string of good to excellent games.

 

Besides, Sonic Unleashed was pretty rough around the edges but the concept behind that turned out pretty great with Generations, I think anyway. I wouldn't bargain on Sonic Lost World signalling a downfall to the franchise. Especially a franchise that is one of the most iconic in all of gaming, despite the somewhat marginal backlash it has against certain groups at the moment.

[Kuzu]

Yeah, but I guess for RCS it's not just the delivery to me. I also just don't really like his voice for Sonic either. Drummond's Sonic has this different.. tone, or texture to it, if you know what I mean. It's hard to explain. I just like the way his voice sounds more than Roger's. I guess it's because it sounds more emotionally varied, and youthful? Or something?

 

Of course when I think of Drummond's limitations, I also remember when we found out that Drummond went for the role as Sonic and wound up doing better than Roger, but couldn't take the job because of being in union work or something. I guess I'm a bit salty over that, since I mean.. if Lani Minella really was messing with his delivery in the past, and he ended up in his current auditions as even better than Roger, then I could only dream to hear what it sounds like. XD

 

Well speaking in terms of voices, I'd say Griffith has the best sounding voice for him and yes, I do vastly prefer his voice for Sonic than Smith even if I do think the latter has better and more consistent acting ability. His performance in Black Knight is by far, the best performance for Sonic I've seen in any sort of medium, and that no subsequent game has even come close to matching. And its a real shame that was his last hoorah for him too.

 

As for the second point, can't really get mad over what could have been. Then again, I'd probably feel the same way of Griffith auditioned. It is what it is, and it certainly isn't Roger's fault either. Just an unfortunately circumstance sadly.

[azoo]

Yeah, now that I think about it, Roger's done lines like Soniko just mentioned a lot before. Its just that I didn't enjoy it as much because of the voice itself. That's gotta be it more than anything.

 

Roger's all deep and gruff in vocal tone/range, and with that mixed with some of the lines he says it makes Sonic seem more like that dudebro comparison I've made before. Even though Griffith usually sounds like an older guy trying to seem like a younger guy, he still pulls off that "skydiving" line pretty nicely since it's got a higher pitched, smoother and more "youthful" feel to it?

 

And then SA2 Drummond just kind of kicks ass at getting the tone down. He's got the sass and the spunk, but he sounds young and nasally, but not in that bad kind of way (since it seems that the term "nasally" when speaking about voice acting seems to usually be a derogatory term).

 

 Well speaking in terms of voices, I'd say Griffith has the best sounding voice for him and yes, I do vastly prefer his voice for Sonic than Smith even if I do think the latter has better and more consistent acting ability. His performance in Black Knight is by far, the best performance for Sonic I've seen in any sort of medium, and that no subsequent game has even come close to matching. And its a real shame that was his last hoorah for him too.

 

Griffith did a fantastic job on Sonic in SatBK, I'll give him that, yeah. He did great as him in Unleashed too. Of course I'll always think Drummond kicked it hardest.

 

As for the second point, can't really get mad over what could have been. Then again, I'd probably feel the same way of Griffith auditioned. It is what it is, and it certainly isn't Roger's fault either. Just an unfortunately circumstance sadly.

 

Well of course I'm not really mad, and certainly not at Roger; if anything it's really me being really frustrated with Sega (which could be monikered "The Kings of Incompetent" at this point regarding Sonic).

[Kuzu]

People criticize Roger for only being able to give Sonic a loud and obnoxious voice. Yet in that Knuckles and Amy death scene, Sonic was shown to be able to speak in a prettily low somber tone just fine, so I don't know why people believe that Roger can only give one emotional type for the character, that really made it seem like it's direction more than anything and I believe that he certainly does have the emotional range to pull it off if he wanted to.

 

This probably has something to do with those somber moments not really given any elaboration or focus, and that the majority of Sonic's screentime is, well, being loud and obnoxious. 

 

To compare; that cutscene you mentioned only lasts for 30 seconds or so. And that's it.

 

 

And then there's this scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4QnN1ZbcHc

 

 

This glorious, four minute cutscene. Sonic confronts Merlina, he questions her on her motives and then gives a defiant retort to them. When told to stay down, he basically tells the Knights to screw off and let him continue in the most defiant tone ever. And when he's beaten, he screams in agony. This one scene conveys WAY better emotion than anything Lost World pulled off, and its probably for that reason people don't put too much credit in LW's writing because it doesn't elaborate enough for the audience to really care.

[Kat]

(Decided to move this horribly long post to a later part of the thread, because it didn't have anything to do with the character discussion going on here...)

Edited January 9, 2014 by Kat

[Soniman]

This probably has something to do with those somber moments not really given any elaboration or focus, and that the majority of Sonic's screentime is, well, being loud and obnoxious. 

 

To compare; that cutscene you mentioned only lasts for 30 seconds or so. And that's it.

 

 

And then there's this scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4QnN1ZbcHc

 

 

This glorious, four minute cutscene. Sonic confronts Merlina, he questions her on her motives and then gives a defiant retort to them. When told to stay down, he basically tells the Knights to screw off and let him continue in the most defiant tone ever. And when he's beaten, he screams in agony. This one scene conveys WAY better emotion than anything Lost World pulled off, and its probably for that reason people don't put too much credit in LW's writing because it doesn't elaborate enough for the audience to really care.

 

Ignoring all the exposition at the beginning and the rawk at the end. All I hear in that is Griffith's awful screaming voice and the regular voice that I don't like anyway. I give credit that he's trying, but my general disdain for the voice doesn't really have me caring to much tbh.

 

And how is that scene from SLW not given any elaboration is beyond me, since we know why Amy and Knuckles almost died, since it was established in a scene before it. Im not going to act like that capitalized on it perfectly, but it's a 30 second scene that made me feel more then that does. And i know i mentioned this before a million times but when Tails gets kidnapped he spends the rest of the game being rather serious about it, actually displaying more emotions then people give him credit for.

[-Mark-]

I think Drummond arguably has the best range and perhaps the most 'accurate' voice, if we're using the Japanese Sonic voice as a benchmark. But yeah, admittedly I may have some bias toward Jason purely because of how long he was in the role, and subsequently how much we had him drilled into our heads.

[azoo]

Ignoring all the exposition at the beginning and the rawk at the end. All I hear in that is Griffith's awful screaming voice and the regular voice that I don't like anyway. I give credit that he's trying, but my general disdain for the voice doesn't really have me caring to much tbh.

 

And how is that scene from SLW not given any elaboration is beyond me, since we know why Amy and Knuckles almost died, since it was established in a scene before it. Im not going to act like that capitalized on it perfectly, but it's a 30 second scene that made me feel more then that does. And i know i mentioned this before a million times but when Tails gets kidnapped he spends the rest of the game being rather serious about it, actually displaying more emotions then people give him credit for.

 

Well they leave it extremely vague in SLW with that whole scene. And then he doesn't think about it nor does it seem to openly bother him for the rest of the game until everything's fixed, so it's like it never happened. Kind of like most of the issues with that game and Colors! 

 

 In SatBK you pretty much get involved in the whole story for that point in that cutscene to actually mean anything, and then it stands out as a very meaningful moment for him.

[Lady Soniko]

Not to mention he continues his disdain for Merlina's actions even during the fight, accompanied with Excalibur's input on the situation, so it transitions from the cut-scene into actual gameplay.

 

Unlike SLW, Sonic could have wailed on during the battle with Eggman, showing he actually gives a damn you know?

 

But he doesn't, it's a silent battle where Sonic just continues suit.

[Soniman]

Not to mention he continues his disdain for Merlina's actions even during the fight, accompanied with Excalibur's input on the situation, so it transitions from the cut-scene into actual gameplay.

 

Unlike SLW, Sonic could have wailed on during the battle with Eggman, showing he actually gives a damn you know?

 

But he doesn't, it's a silent battle where Sonic just continues suit.

 

Well Sonic games haven't done in game dialogue for years, probably due to the backlash that type of thing gets..

 

Then again this is a moot point because in the aforementioned BK they gave you the option to turn that shit off if you wanted.

 

Well they leave it extremely vague in SLW with that whole scene. And then he doesn't think about it nor does it seem to openly bother him for the rest of the game until everything's fixed, so it's like it never happened. Kind of like most of the issues with that game and Colors!

 

So him not constantly monologuing about how Amy and Knuckles died after we saw a scene with them dying means it never happened? Okay then.

[Vertekins]

I think one thing about SLW Sonic's reaction to the situation that disappointed me was when he finally found out that Eggman backstabbed him.

 

I was expecting a reaction a bit more satisfying than "The only thing that's gonna get conquered is your face Eggman!" which is just...cheesy.

 

Quite different and highly underwhelming compared to SatBK Sonic/Excalibur-Sonic, who never hesitated to attack Merlina first (And was only stopped from cleaving her in two by her barrier) and then diss her with Excalibur in an incredibly awesome and powerful way.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

He attacked because in a sense to prolong a kingdom forever is a bad thing. Sonics motives were right in the scene

[azoo]

Not to mention he continues his disdain for Merlina's actions even during the fight, accompanied with Excalibur's input on the situation, so it transitions from the cut-scene into actual gameplay.

 

Unlike SLW, Sonic could have wailed on during the battle with Eggman, showing he actually gives a damn you know?

 

But he doesn't, it's a silent battle where Sonic just continues suit.

 

And then the end was "haha, we saved the day Eggman! ya big dumb dumb!" while Tails and him brofist as Tails manages to save everyone in the world with his magic techie god powers.

 

You see, you want to say SLW Sonic had emotional range and there was decent character interaction but I just don't see it that much. It was kind of as juvenile as the plot was thin. I mean, I saw the potential in what they shown, but nothing ever went through or was taken seriously enough to make you care. Sonic won, Eggman got away, the end.

So him not constantly monologuing about how Amy and Knuckles died after we saw a scene with them dying means it never happened? Okay then.

 

For a guy who is said to really care about his friends, you'd imagine he'd be more than bothered for more than 30 seconds. I mean, seriously. His reaction to seeing the Deadly Six right after that scene wasn't even him in frustration or anger at what has just happened to the planet and people he loves, it was literally just "ugh, you guys again?". I mean come on.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

If Sonic didnt care about his friends, he wouldnt have saved the earth....

[Komodin]

Eh, this will probably be ignored, but, since everyone have already said what I wanted to say, I'll just say that I honestly haven't much to say about what I think is so bad about the series's current direction. I mean, while I still think it could be much better, as is, I'm still quite satisfied with how things are. I just hope no one thinks any less of me for this...

[azoo]

If Sonic didnt care about his friends, he wouldnt have saved the earth....

 

Most of the impression I get recently of Sonic saving the Earth or anything like that at this point is almost solely because its his "job" or something. He's the hero, he kicks butt and beats up Eggman because Eggman's a bad ol' bad guy and he's a good ol' good guy ("Its what we do, Tails!").

 

I know he's supposedly caring enough of his friends and his planet to save the world, but it just doesn't seem like the cause means as much to him as the action at this point.