Learning From Lost World; or, Where Do We Go From Here?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Alright, so the dust has settled. Everybody who cared to has purchased Sonic Lost World full price, put it into their dust receptacle Wii 2, and pressed start on the start screen by now. Everyone who cared to dig in has a fully formed opinion on the game, as noted by the fan reactions topic we have over yonder. Wars were fought, cities ravaged, some animal died, it had everything. Seeing as how all this has come to pass, I figured we might put our brains to constructive use on the subject.

 

So here's the gist of the topic: Give one area in which Sonic Lost World succeeded as a good game (or something you hope it passes down to new games), and one area in which it did not (or where you hope its influence is muted). Excerpts are to be vaguely the length of a paragraph and possesses decent articulation on the point presented. Examples (positive and negative respectfully):

 

Sonic was cool and blue in this game: you guys I have played many games involving sonic hedgehogs becoming ufos on a flying lincoln log before but this is the first where sonic has been cool and blue simultaneously it's so crazy so when I was going in frozen factory I was like all "these platforms I'm runnign on may be cool but their not as cool and blue as me 5/5 two thumbs up I subscribe to myself and like my twitter on facebook" I mean geez talk about blast processing more like awesome... blast... processing you get me you feel it you dig we cool

 

Cubot is not a very cool nor blue character: okay so guys I like Cubot and all he's swell we go to all sorts of fancy parties that rich people go to together but did it ever strike you how not very well written and how not very blue his character was I mean I was thinking about it and at no point in the game does he say that he likes Space Jam or even Even Stevens so I think this guy might just be a poser and also he doesn't turn into a ufo so three strikes you're out you not-blue person

 

Further ground rules:

 

1. No one-liner snarky replies. We have statuses for that, this is a discussion board.

 

2. Be courteous. The people on the opposite side of the fence of you are not feces-eating sub-monkeys, they're people, and sometimes very nice people. Discuss with them and the subject at hand with this in mind.

 

3. Keep the bitterness to a minimum. We have plenty of other topics if you want to tear this game or its detractors a new one. Try and approach the matter as non-partially as you can.

 

With all my condescension aside, discuss away!

 

(R.I.P. Random Quote Box: January 6, 2014 - January 6, 2014)

Edited January 7, 2014 by Sixth-Rate Soma

[Wentos]

Are we allowed to use the 3DS version as well? That's the only version I have. If so,
 

The graphics are very nice: Yeah, seriously. For being Sonic's first fully 3D handheld adventure, they managed to make it look pretty swell. It's probably not the fanciest example of the hardware's capabilities, but it's not like it looked almost completely different from its console cousin either. *eyes UnWiished*

The Wisps are awful: I never disliked the Wisps as characters or as a concept, but I did start growing irritated when SEGA decided they needed to cash in on it and bring them back, almost turning the game into a half-baked Sonic Colors 2. The Wisps worked fine in Colors, but even the returning ones feel ungodly unintuitive. Don't even get me started on the new additions; the moment I crossed paths with the Quake Wisp, I shut off the game and walked away.

 

and Soma there's a key called "backspace" which'll teach the box a lesson

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

You don't have to do it in quotes btw, that was just me being... me.

 

And thank you kind Lady Luck!

[Wentos]

WELL MAYBE I JUST THOUGHT IT'D BE EASIER IF WE ALL KEPT THE SAME FORMAT.

 

 

mew.

[Vertekins]

The visuals are incredibly beautiful and the frame rate is the greatest I've ever seen in a Sonic game.

 

I was initially a tad skeptical about this game's art direction. The way it seemed to skimp-out on dimensional lighting of the like seen from the Hedgehog Engine and detail-rich backgrounds but after having seen and played the final product my view changed. The game is gorgeous and it's nice how quite a few of the levels have changing environments that add variety. 

 

The consistently great frame rate makes everything move smooth and silky. The art direction is luscious and I really love the Badnik's and the robotic mechs the Deadly Six use in fights against them.

 

Sonic and the other characters are animated in an exuberant way that isn't overstated or understated, cartoony without being excessively so.

 

The Wisps add nothing of particular noteworthiness to the game and detracted from it on my first playthrough especially due to control issues before the update.

 

They broke the pace.

 

They never do anything interesting.

 

They were a right pain in the ass to control with gyro controls before the update. Asteroid was practically broken and Laser was needlessly finicky. Hover didn't work for me at all in Lava Mountain's third act.

 

They just felt like they were tacked-on with little to no creativity regarding level design.

 

This game could've done without them frankly.

[Wittymations]

Good:

 

Eggman was a lot more threatening and cool in the game. He did things that made you go, "Whoa, is that the same guy from Colors and Generations?" A lot of times you couldn't help but smile. The preceeding games made him seem more sypmethetic as a villain than the bad guy you had to stop.

 

Of course, it fell flat at the end, but hey, maybe Sonic Team is understanding that people want to feel threatened by the villain as well as think he's funny.

 

Bad:

 

I like that Tails did more. I really did. I like how he had purpose in this game. But what I didn't like was his egotistical, snarky, prissy attitude. What was supposed to make me feel bad for Tails, how he felt betrayed because Sonic was willing to trust Eggman, actually just made me want to backhand him. Eggman even saved his life and he still acted like a primadonna. I can't like a Tails like that.

 

I can get him not being trusting, I can even get his reasoning, but that doesn't make me like him anymore. They made Sonic seem more likeable here, but seems like they took some of those problems and gave it to Tails.

 

It's also kinda funny that this is a reverse situation of Colors. Tails being more trusting and Sonic not.

[Autosaver]

Blend the "super realistic" look from Sonic Unleashed with the cartoony look of Lost World to find a middle ground.

 

I love Sonic at a stable 60fps. The Unleashed/Gens 30fps with framerate drops is just awful, especially with how fast Sonic moves. Playing Generations on PC at 60fps is awesome. But I know they won't be able to balance the framerate on systems with the same level of graphics.

[azoo]

I say we take both the Unleashed styled and Lost World styled gameplay and art, and just mush 'em together. Stir gently, then preheat the oven and cook for one to one-and-a-half years, badabing badaboom.

 

I'm serious.

 

Lost World's gameplay had the right idea of making Sonic less of a speedfest and more of a flexible experience, but it was (unless you were a pro) nearly flowless and felt unlike a Sonic game in many ways. If they could put Sonic's SLW abilities into an engine that handles and controls with weight and flowy player physics like Unleashed/Gens, as well as widen out and vary the pacing of the Gens-esque level design, then we may be striking gold. 

 

Art style is the same for me as what Autosaver said. I wouldn't mind the previous art style with SLW's insanely bold colors and geometrical plant life (not counting the bigger trees.. those as blocky shapes look too weird to not remain realistic). Those things together would be a feast on the eyes.

 

Add some of that solid 60fps and you've smooth talked me into throwing away 60 smackeroonies.

[gala]

-

[-Mark-]

The parkour system was fun when it worked, once you got the hang of it. It'd be nice if they took that and implemented it into the boost-style gameplay. The way it allowed for more branching level paths was pretty nice, too.

 

...there, I actually said something positive.  But yeah, that's about it. I'd just like it if the two aforementioned aspects were put into the boost gameplay, really. Or even the Adventure gameplay.

[Autosaver]

The gameplay was... Not so great:

The controls in this version are so more open and crazy compared to the Wii U. Stopping in the Wii U version to land on a platform is easy. On the 3DS, it seems like Sonic spazzes out when trying to do the same.

 

Same with the top speed parkour. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen in the Wii U version.

 

 

Call me closed-minded, but I think they should return to Unleashed/Colours/Generations style gameplay, and have that as the definitive Sonic experience from now on, with a few improvements. If Mario can get away with using a very similar gameplay style since 1996, why can't Sonic?

Here's the one thing people don't really understand about the development of Unleashed/Generations style gameplay.

 

It's take a lot of time and money for such little work. There is a reason why Unleashed had Werehog and Generations had Classic Sonic. There was a reason why Colors focused 10x more on 2D instead of 3D. 2 years of development time for 5 levels at the detail of Unleashed graphics is kind of poor. Especially when SEGA expects us to shell out $60.

[TearForFear]

Plot, writing, characters and whatnot (bear in mind, this is just my honest opinion and interpretation)

 

Nothing much to say about the Deadly Six. The only complaints I have is that their fate is left ambiguous.

 

Amy and Knuckles just serves to show us what's happening on the planet. It's surprisingly nice to see Amy getting out of her flanderization.

 

I'm really disappointed with Eggman. He seems to grow as a character with all the treaths to the Zetis and his relationship with Sonic and Tails... and all of these traits were flushed down the toilet in the end.

 

As for Sonic and Tails... let's analyse them step by step and (almost) scene by scene (mostly to avoid wall of text )

 

"I've build a tv out of paper clips..."

Tails' swagger is not as offensive as he seems, honestly. It's just his convoluted way to say that he has all under control. At first Sonic sounds annoyed, but as soon as Tails yells "Good to go!" it's already water under the bridge. This scene is OK.

 

"Oh man, I should have listened to you Tails!"

"You think?"

Gee Tails, that's not very nice to say! I know he was shot in the butt by the robots as a consequence to Sonic kicking the conch and have all the rights to be mad, but this is really harsh. Especially right after Sonic admits he should have listened. This scene is a NO.

 

"If it pleases the court, all those who think Eggman is a total bonehead raise their hand"

This is OK, and actually cute to see Sonic and Tails (and Orbot) making fun of Eggman behind his back.

 

"And you just want to go smash it, do you?"

"Well, yeah!"

It's actually OK for me. After all, kick the conch and destroy a machine are two different things for Sonic (and he didn't know yet that destroy the Extractor could have incenereted everthing) I also like the scene for this:

"You'll supply the brawn, I'll supply the brain."

"Oh, and you're asking so nicely."

"Hehe, good one buddy!"

"Heh, thanks!"

I don't get why this is funny, but seeing Sonic and Tails laughing together for something only they understand makes me go soft

 

"Do you know how much that bites?"

NO. That said, it makes sense that Tails is jealous of Eggman and dislikes the idea of Sonic accepting his aid. But why did he get THAT mad at Sonic? It's... NOT out of nowhere, just over the top (seriously, at first I thought Tails was possessed by the devil or something. Maybe it was just Kate Higgins that added more anger than necessary)

But this line from Sonic

"But the whole world's in danger because I did something stupid. Do you have any idea how much that bites?"

is priceless, and shows that, even if he tries to hyde it with snarkness, Sonic FEELS guilty for what he did.

 

 

For now I stop here (it's 11.15 PM here and I'm falling asleep, please understand ), but I'll be back with a 2nd part of my "review". Stay tuned!

[Dizcrybe]

Sonic Lost World did have something going with the parkour system. It mat not have been all that responsive, but when it was, it was satisfying. There was something fulfilling about finally being able to nab that one red ring in Lost World, even if it did take who knows how many tries.  However, it did end up getting in the way sometimes. I would very much like to see teh parkour improved on in the next game, albeit on flat terrain. Though, with how people are reacting to it, that's little more than a pipe dream.

 

What I wouldn't like to return are the Wisps. They really didn't need to be here. They were useful in Colors because they were mostly optional things that led to alternate paths, sometimes with secrets in them. In Lost World, they're either just there or a pain to the neck. They're never interesting or particularly fun to use. They should've just been a one-time thing.

 

Another thing: the ridiculously huge difficulty spike. Did you really need to make the game that hard, Sonic Team? It didn't even feel like the "fair" kind of hard. It was closer to the classic NES dickery kind of hard.

 

The level design ranges from "decent" to "AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGH". The game has its moments of good level design, but it also has Sonic floating in the air trying to be Sky Chase Zone without everything that made Sky Chase Zone good. I really think this game is a case of Sonic Team having a bunch of ideas and trying to shove them all into one game. Which is bad. You can spread things out across games, guys.

 

I really couldn't care about the story, but the dialogue therein is some of the best I've heard in a Sonic game, particularly from Sonic and Eggman. I laughed more at these cutscenes than any point in Sonic Colors (the PA announcements are still gold though).

 

As for the Six... eh. Don't love 'em, don't hate 'em. They're there to be villains and that's what they do, so... yeah.

 

All in all, a decent game. Could've been better, but wasn't bad.

[TearForFear]

...aaaaaand I'm back.

 

Before I continue, there's something else about the game I want to talk about:

 

Gameplay and Story Segregation

 

It's just my assumption, but it looks like SEGA already planned the game structure (Windy Hill 1->Windy Hill 2 with boss ... Lava Mountain 3 with three bosses->Lava Mountain 4 with Final Boss Eggman), then gave it to Pontac and tell him "here, invent a story that fits with this scheme".

And that's it.

Because, aside the little detail of Cubot replacing Tails in the circus minigame, the game doesn't do anything to follow the mood of the plot. It's really, really annoying to watch a depressing cutscene and immediately go back to the super-happy music of the world map

And really, really irritating to watch a depressing cutscene and immediately go to Omochao joyfully telling you "CONGRATULATIONS!!!!" for completing one of his challanges. I never minded Omochao before, but now

 

 

And now, let's go back to the Sonic and Tails analysis (under spoiler tag because it's loooooong)

 

"...I was just trying to help..."

Despite the previous cutscene, Tails' portrayal here is actually believable. He wants to demonstrate to Sonic that Eggman is not reliable by pointing out the flaws in Cubot's design and giving him a new body (something Eggman didn't bother to do). Unfortunately, Tails's fixation with proving himself blinds him, and he doesn't realize he turned Cubot into a monster that wants to kill him until Eggman makes the save.

Sonic rightfully gets mad at Tails and scoldes him, and what does Tails do in response? He gets sad, and maybe realizes his jerkiness in this and the previous cutscenes were really too much.

So, this scene is OK.

 

"I'm supposed to be the fastest..."

In my opinion, Sonic not listening to Tails' warning, AGAIN, makes perfectly sense. Tails lost points in Sonic's eyes because of what he did before, so maybe Sonic was thinking "take a seat, Tails. This is not your day" when he rushed to the capsule like a moron.

Then, Sonic blames himself for being too slow to save Tails, apparently forgetting the fact that it was him who shoved Tails in the trap with a spin dash. (But, later in the game Sonic will apologise for this, sort of.)

Nonetheless, Sonic feels guilty for the kidnapping of his buddy, and this is OK.

 

"If we don't find your friend, can I be your sidekick?"

Why isn't Sonic running, instead of just looking at the horizon with a sad face?

Because Sky Road is a place he doesn't know and he have to proceed carefully, and because he have to wait Eggman to finish... whatever he was doing to Cubot.

Anyway, this scene serves mostly to show Sonic's care for Tails and how this fact is aknowledged in-universe, thanks to Orbot's comment:

"It's stuff like that that makes me want to be your sidekick. Tails is lucky."

OK.

 

"And WE were been looking for you. Unfortunately, we got your friend, Tails, first."

"Hey, you hurt ONE hair on his head!..."

"Don't worry. Actually, we're making him better. He will be much happier... as a robot."

I really can't make an objective opinion here, sorry.

Because I LOVE this scene. The first face-to-face and conversation between Sonic and Zavok (and sadly the only one ) is awesome.
 Props to the voice actors, The anger in Sonic, the nonchalance as Zavok replies, and the heart-shattering "NO!" Sonic yells at the end... Everything here is OK for me.

 

"They're gonna turn Tails into a robot. It's horrible."

NO. NO. NO.

The polar opposite of the previous cutscene.

There could have been better ways to show us Sonic's feelings about the situation, instead of him just stating the obvious with a lame tone. Roger wasn't even trying here! Maybe even he knew how stupid the scene was... And it is supid, because it's just a way to introduce to us Cubot stuck with Orbot. Boo

 

"I don't even need the detergent for this one. Ha ha!"

It's NO because of the placement (it ruins the surprise of Tails not being a robot, after all).

It's NO because of Zomom's contrived idiocy.

But it's OK for what Tails is and does. Again, I can't make an objective opinion here. I just love how Badass Adorably Tails acts in this scene

 

"Amy? Knuckles? ...anybody?"

Same here, I can't make an objective comment on a scene that made me cry like a rainfall in an equatorial rainforest.

OK.

 

"...NEVER!"

This is a bad example of Gameplay and Story Segregation. Why didn't SEGA think "Hey, RoboTails is a good idea! Let's make him a support in the battle against Giant Zavok!" or something like that?

Still, what happens in this cutscene is OK:

-Tails' aiming with the cannon is bad but, hey, he still managed to make the Zetis retreat;

-Sonic is genuinely happy to have is friend back (can I say I found their brofist here cuter than the one in Colors, without being lapidated? );

-and, if his gesture at the end of the cutscene is anything to go by, Tails is genuinely happy that Sonic is genuinely happy to have him back

 

"Here's your energy back, world. Bon apetit!"

For me, Tails and Sonic are PERFECT here.

The extractor was already shut down by Eggman before, so, with "You know you never needed Eggman, right? I could have turned this off myself" Tails just wants to be assured that Sonic does trust him.

Then Sonic apologises for what happened in Frozen Factory.

Think about it: Tails' jealousy is what caused the incident with Cubot; the incident with Cubot is what caused Sonic to ignore Tails about the trap of the Zetis, which caused the kidnapping of Tails.

So, even if was not in Sonic's/the writer's mind, Sonic DOES apologise for shoving Tails in the trap, even if indirectly

Then Tails forgives Sonic with a simple "it's cool", Like a real friend should do.

 

"After a day like today, I could enjoy a nap on fresh green grass"

I'm split between OK and NO here.

It's still nice to see that Sonic finally takes a break and enjoys the air of his world, surrounded by his closest friends... but after the "Forever Alone Sonic" scene, I expected and pretended more emotions from Sonic

 

In conclusion:

 

Pontac's writing has so much room for improvements (and SEGA didn't help), I wont deny it. But when he does things right, they surely ARE right. 

 

End of my review. Take care

[VGamer]

.Because, aside the little detail of Cubot replacing Tails in the circus minigame, the game doesn't do anything to follow the mood of the plot. It's really, really annoying to watch a depressing cutscene and immediately go back to the super-happy music of the world map

 

Oh my god, I'm REALLY glad that I'm not the only one who was bothered with that. The only thing that kept stopping me from actually connecting with Sonic emotionally in the final area of the game was the music, and just how bad it interrupted everything.

 

That's not the main thing I wanted to talk about though. If I had to choose one issue I have with this game, it's...

 

The hand-holding

 

They constantly told us in interviews and previews that the whole point of the parkour and speed-setting gameplay works. While I'd prefer acceleration-based gameplay a la Adventure, I didn't let that get in the way of my experience with this game. You know what did though? The fact that every loop-de-loop in 2D has a speed booster in front of it. The fact that the game hides springs from you when you want to parkour up a wall, making the whole point of the parkour useless. The fact that there are trick-boosters in 3D that will force you on one path when you might have wanted to take the other. There were countless moments in this game where I found myself jumping above a booster just because it was pointless to be there in the first place. I actually need to memorize where the invisible springs are in a level just to put effort into the game myself? That's lame, and it's reached it's peak here with me in this game. There's a game being easy, then there's obnoxious automation.

 

The one thing I'd have to say I enjoyed?

 

The concept and implementation of Parkour

 

Unlike a lot of people, I actually think the parkour was implemented really well in this game, and can only go up from here (unless we make more Sonic gameplay changes in the upcoming games, Sonic Team...). Assuming the next game has parkour gameplay and doesn't have spring-syndrome, I'd like to see the parkour system return and perhaps expanded on. With Lost World's tubular and flat stages, I'd like to see how the parkour would be implemented in more "Sonic-y" levels with 3D hills, multiple pathways that aren't accessible to anyone like this game (earn the faster pathway by mastering a shortcut rather then just "go left of the tube"), and such. It'd definitely be something new that we've never seen before, but I'm all for it. The parkour in Lost World felt like a more expanded version of the wall running in games like Shadow, and the wall jumping like in Heroes.

 

If only we could get more characters in on the action, now that'd be fun, eh Sonic Team?