Sonics future

[Splash the Otter]

I wrote a thread about this on Sega forums and I want to get opinions here. I dont know where to put this my concerns. Im worried about the franchise and mostly Sonic. Sonic the character. Sometimes I over weird with it but I do worry about Sonics future. Because ....

Sonic Team gives him more moves and development because he was the only one playable now. Now we can see his potenchal (?) and what he can do. He can walk on walls and run on them which is a shinobi move in one game. In another game he can use wisps to explore areas you cant get without them and speaking the wisps it shows that he can be trusted because... the wisps allow him to use such powers. So we see a little personality to. We also get to play a game where we see acrobatic shinobi mix like Sonic in the day and then a more combat Street Fight ish Sonic at night. Another game we get to see Sonic play like his classic days but with a fun modern touch. And the game after that we get to see him and Tails work together and create moves that can be combine.

I dont know but other Sonic games with playable friends didnt give us this Sonic but they gave us one people would call dull and now only play Sonic games for his friends forgetting about Sonic. Thats why I like Sonic-only games. Because I get to see just how amazing he can be without being outshined by anyone else.

Im dont want to be mean but this series is called Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic is the main character. Damn, give Sonic sometime to be a star, he deserves it! He deserves to be awesome like everyone else. I know hes amazing but man people, let the guy be amazing for a couple of games. Im dont wanna be angry but I dont like seeing my favorite character get shoved in the background :*(

Now the demand for more is there. Is Sonic going to be shoved in the background like he was before Sonic Unleashed?

 

Oh and I also want to say:

 

I dont hate other characters!!! Why do you think that I do? All I said was that Im worried about my favorite character just as everyones worried about theirs. I never say no one matters. Of course they matter!! They are Sonics friends!! Why wouldnt they matter? They help Sonic alot!

My worry is Sonic never got the development he needed while his friends did when they were playable. Sonic never learned anything he never gain anything or had anything to show off the personality traits other than free spirit like.... his heart?! Like when I say Sonic should had talk to Shadow, I say it because it has the heart for it but he can use it to better himself and learn to understand others. Sometimes Sonic doesnt understand and its good for him to gain that. but they used this to develop another character with that trait of Sonics and others as well got development, even Shadow even Eggman got development.

In Shadow the Hedgehog, he was annoying hyperactive teenaged Charmy character but he tried to show traits that made him amazing. Like his heart and his worry for Shadow. But it never got developed in the game. But its a Shadow game not a Sonic game.

I love Sonic 2006 alot! Sonic was amazing in that game! But Sonics light didnt shine as bright as Shadows or Silvers or Elise.

Now Sonics light shines in these games because they focus on him and what makes him amazing. I dont hate friends but I want more development for Sonic and I want to see him treated like the heart of the franchise he is. And hes finally getting it.

I understand your sentiment, but I also feel like your fears are kind of unfounded. Of the top of my head, only Knuckles and Shadow ever came close to stealing the spotlight from Sonic. As for having multiple characters, I think the Dreamcast Era did a pretty good job for the most part of making sure Sonic stood out from the others. For example, Sonic has the longest story in SA1 (twice the length of anyone else), and crosses paths the most with the other cast. The Advance trilogy also did this to a lesser extent by making Sonic the only one who could fight the final bosses and requiring you to play as him in Advance 2 if you wanted to unlock Tails and Knuckles. Personally I would like everyone in each game to have equal screentime, but I'm sure there are ways to do that without sidelining the title character.

[iDEATH]

I'm sorry, but I agree with Mando here. Your complaint is a bit out of date. It's been close to a decade since Sonic's been the only playable character. I think we're long overdue for some added spice and variety by adding other playable characters. I'm not asking for an 06-type situation where there's a cluster fuck of 9 playable characters with incredibly different gameplay styles. God no.

 

That's actually exactly what I'd want, minus the clusterfuck of course P

 

If they were to bring back other plasyable characters, which I think they definitly should do, I think it's important that the different characters have different playstyles. Different characters have different strenghts, Sonic has his speed, Knuckles his strength, Tails can fly and is good with machines. The level design should play to those strengths otherwise you're just playing a Sonic level with a new character skin.

 

I loved the genre roulette of SA/SA2. Thecharactersall had unique playstyles and it really worked. Even if you don't like Big's fishing levels you can't deny that you definitly didn't feel like you were simply playing another sonic level, same with Tails/Eggman's SA2 levels.

I think the problem with those games though is that it feels like you're not given enough Sonic so that's where I'd like a bit of a changeup. Having extra characters with other styles is great but it should still feel like sonic's game. 

Maybe a game with only a couple levels for tails and Knuckles would be good. Still definitly a Sonic game, but with the odd changeup to keep things fresh, bating the game would unlock the ability to play as any character in any level to boost replayability.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

for my name, it translated is Sonic-chan but I pefer people call me Sonikku-chan the romaji spell.

 

I try to understand what others say there are somethings I dont understand. I notice that people are very quickly to brush my worries like its nothing or it doesnt matter or its stupid. Its kinda expries, yes but they still matter to me. Because I worry about my favorite character Sonic. I dont hate Sonics friends but Sonic is the pritote character for me and I only care if I get to see Sonic and play as him to the very end. I do not want to be force to play as Sonics friends to get true story. I want to play as Sonic all the way.  

 

I dont understand why people are angry I want solo-Sonic. I think Sonic is unappreciated.

[Nepenthe]

People are upset because you are applying something called a false dichotomy. You are assuming that there's only two choices in this scenario: that Sonic either gets most or all the attention with no other characters being playable, or Sonic gets very little to no attention at all with other characters being playable. Your argument has not considered the fact that it is highly possible for a character to have the most development and screen time (either overall or comparatively) even with a small extended cast, such as with the classic games, Sonic Adventure, or Sonic and the Black Knight. Thus, your solution is to essentially deny tons of fans of secondary characters any further enjoyment they would possibly have with a game by saying that their favorite characters should not be allowed to be playable. This is, of course, massively frustrating.

[spinny]

There's nothing wrong with liking Sonic, not at all. For the millionth time, I don't recall any of us saying that.

 

 

They bought this massive cast upon themselves and we simply want to see it used.

 

I understand Sonic is your favourite character and all, but "pushed to the side"? That only ever happened in Shadow and 06. SA1? Sonic got 10 stages, everyone else got 5 or less. SA2? Sonic got 6 stages, everyone else got 4 or 5. Heroes? Main team in the story and the team that saves the entire day in the end.

 

With the end of Shadow's intro showing Sonic falling to the floor and Sonic having nothing important to do in 06 besides being killed, I see your point there... but it honestly doesn't make sense looking at the standing of the series today.

 

Sonic has near to every single tiny bit of the limelight in Unleashed, Colors, Generations and Lost World. 

 

And honestly, yes, even though Sonic is powerful... seeing him go on all these adventures without his friends actually assisting and just serving as cheerleaders... it feels unnatural to me. Look at any other popular videogame series these days-- there's always the other playable characters to help flesh out the cast, and that's what we want for the Sonic series.

 

I repeat, we don't want Sonic to "get pushed to the side". Sonic may be the main character, but that doesn't mean he has to be the only one playable. Not at all.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I understand and Im sorry

 

also here they push Sonic to the side for Shadow:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq5W4kpI9lw

 

somtimes I get not ratinal but I dont want to take away playable friends. thats mean and rude to fans. I want them to be in the games and helpful without shoving Sonic to the side and using HIS personality traits to save the day.

 

Im sorry if I was annoying

[SenEDDtor Missile]

To be fair, the whole point of Shadow the Hedgehog was for said character to be the main focus of his own game; that's how it is supposed to work. Granted you can go into the various issues in regards to HOW they chose to handle it, but it would be kinda dumb for a game about a specific character to NOT have the specific character in the spotlight.

[spinny]

also here they push Sonic to the side for Shadow:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq5W4kpI9lw

 

With the end of Shadow's intro showing Sonic falling to the floor and Sonic having nothing important to do in 06 besides being killed, I see your point there... but it honestly doesn't make sense looking at the standing of the series today.

 

The thing is, that was 2005, this is now 2013. There's literally nothing to worry about.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

i understand. Im sorry

[Clouder]

Here is what I think Sonic should do in order to have a bright future: 

• Find either the perfect mix of every gameplay style, or stick to a good one like Hedgehog Engine or SA1's gameplay. One thing that is wrong with Sonic today is that he has no identity. First he has spindash and homing attack, then he has mach speed, then he has boost and stomp, and now he's running on walls! One thing I have noticed with many series and engines is that they usually find the perfect match, then they stick with that engine and just build upon it to fit with the time and technology of the console. Sonic, however fluctuates pretty much every 2 years and when they find a good combination, they say "LOLNOPE" and make a new one. Look at Mario: His 3d gameplay style has not changed since Mario 64, which makes Mario pretty much a universal platformer, having easiness that a child could grasp, and still be challenging enough for younger players.. All of his 3d Super Mario games have used the same gameplay for 18 years, only adding a few power-ups and maybe a new gimmick like FLUUD or sphere walking for a one time thing, which brings me to my next point:
• Some gimmicks should be one time things. Wisps are the main culprit of this. They were okay in Colors and Generations, because they made sense to be in there, with them being a plot point in Colors, and Generations because they were in that specific level. But them in Lost World makes no sense. After Colors, they supposedly took their planet back to their own spot in the Galaxy, pretty much giving no reason for them to return unless for a sequel, which could be done excellently if they are executed right. Another this I heard is that people like the new games because "Sonic can partner up with Tails." I hate to break it to you, but Tails could do that since 1992. Not to mention Sonic 3, Heroes, and Advance 3. And speaking of partnering up with characters...
• Bring back all of the main cast. People say Sonic has been pushed to the side when he hasn't at all. Sonic got 10 levels in SA1 while the other five got half of that. IF anything, the characters have been especially pushed to the side lately. we haven't seen hide nor hair of the rest of the cast other than Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Eggman, Orbot and Cubot for 4 years. The whole cast has potential if they (if they are playable) get unique gameplay styles that set them apart from Sonic's, and if they are written good, which brings me to the next point:
• Bring back the Japanese writers, preferably Heroes/Battle writers or Black Knight/Unleashed writers. I'll be blunt with this. Ken Pontac has ruined the Sonic cast that he gets to write for. Now Sonic's this big snarky, immature ("LOL! MCNOSEHAIR!") jerk who doesn't care about his friends' wellbeing (After finding Amy and Knuckles is alive, instead of being happy, he just goes "leave me alone i want to sleep", pushing them out the way. Another example is Sonic pushing Amy away from Sonic when she wants to give him a "Happy birthday!" hug.), Tails is this immature (THE FEELING'S MUTUAL, EGGFACE.), bratty, arrogant little kid who hasn't matured a bit since Adventure (Which I might add, Pontac does not know about), and is still in Sonic's shadow, instead of branching out. Knuckles is okay, but Amy is horrible. She remained optimistic even when the world was about to be destroyed in SA2, but Pontac's Amy is this worrywart character who thinks Cream, HER ////BEST//// FRIEND is a useless little kid, even though she trashed a whole bunch of robots in Battle. Another thing is that there isn't any character interaction other than X talking to Sonic or Eggman. And Eggman's writing is okay, and Orbot and Cubot is just a source of humor for the little kids. If anything, the Sonic series should be aim toward the teenagers, not the kids. Let the kids play Minecraft, and let ACTUAL writers do the work. Another thing is the voice cast. Eggman, Knuckles and Tails are good, but the rest are just awful. Give me the 4Kids or Adventure VAs over them anyday.

That's just my two cents. Agree or disagree, it doesn't matter anyhow.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I disagree about Sonic not caring but the rest i can agree

[Nepenthe]

I'm wary of bringing back a writing team that made groups of characters fight for no reason in a game that was supposed to exemplify the theme of teamwork. That's as big a mistake- if not more so- as bringing the Wisps back for no reason.

[TearForFear]

 

After finding Amy and Knuckles is alive, instead of being happy, he just goes "leave me alone i want to sleep", pushing them out the way.

 

I agree he should have show more emotion but... acting like "Leave me alone" and push them aside? If he really wasn't happy he shouldn't have a smile on his face, If he really wanted to be left alone he shouldn't let them join him as the cutscene ended.

 

 

Tails is still in Sonic's shadow, instead of branching out.

 

He resolved the problems Sonic caused in Lost World and had Sonic saying sorry for not trusting him. Tails overshadowed Sonic rather than be in his shadow in my opinion

 

 

Pontac's Amy is this worrywart character who thinks Cream, HER ////BEST//// FRIEND is a useless little kid

 

I don't know which game this bit belongs to, but as far as I know Pontac only wrote for Colors (Wii version), Generations and Lost World, and Amy never said such a thing in these 3 games.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Tails got way more development than Sonic. He went from being a little kid who was picked on for being different to be proud of himself.

 

And the birthday party thing, Amy was trying to kiss him. ;p

[spinny]

I don't know which game this bit belongs to, but as far as I know Pontac only wrote for Colors (Wii version), Generations and Lost World, and Amy never said such a thing in these 3 games.

 

He's connecting the worrywart thing to her sharp personality change in Lost World which I'm also not a fan of.

 

The "calling Cream a useless kid" thing is from Free Riders, which I believe Pontac didn't write for, so you have a point there.

 

 

Tails got way more development than Sonic. He went from being a little kid who was picked on for being different to be proud of himself.

 

And the birthday party thing, Amy was trying to kiss him. ;p

 

Cockblocking her with his palm is still a little asshole-ish for a character with a "heart of gold" in my opinion.

[Kuzu]

You can be nice and still be kind of a dick ya know :\

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Whats wrong with Sonic not wanting Amy to kiss him of suffcate him to death?

[Briraka]

Whats wrong with Sonic not wanting Amy to kiss him of suffcate him to death?

Because every straight man would kill to be in that position.

 

... or maybe I'm just so lonely ....

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

but Sonic is free and shy around girls. He flirts but he doesnt really care about girls or dating.

[metalliccookies]

For me I feel that what is happening with Sonic is similar to what happened to Niko in GTA 4, due to him being the only playable character he had to switch personality constantly to keep with the players actions, it caused him to become disjointed and have no real personality. While in GTA 5, with the addition of more playable characters it allowed each to have their own personality matching their gameplay styles. A example of this is the Ware-hog, due to it being 'Sonic only' players (myself included) were left confused by his sudden change in gameplay and characterisation. Thus I wonder if Sonic Team had say, used someone like Knuckles instead would things have been different (same gameplay different model)?

 

Stretching Sonic's personality and abilities thin so he can cover a lager amount of gameplay style is not a good thing in my eyes, because it he just leads to him becoming a empty shell... kind of like Mario... Simply put,  a character needs to fit the gameplay style

(in both personality and abilities)

 

P.S.

Though to be honest I just want SEGA to really polish Sonic's core gameplay before they introduce other variations or other gameplay styles, I would rather have a very polished well made Sonic only game (i.e. just 1 style of gameplay) than 2 or 3 less polished variants of gameplay just for variety

[Nepenthe]

Mario isn't a flat character because he has a lot of gimmicks and gameplay styles at his disposal. He's a flat character because Nintendo refuses to write about and develop his characterization beyond the purehearted everyman. I don't feel there's any dissonance between Sonic and the gameplay at his disposal; said gameplay and personality were developed relatively in line with one another in the beginning, and the general goals of later titles haven't really changed enough to be distracting. Sonic still runs and fights and saves the day as he's meant to do, so it doesn't matter if he's rolling, boosting, or Parkouring. Even the Werehog- as different as that is from the norm- wasn't particularly dissonant with his personality because A.) it doesn't change the fact that you are still platforming, destroying enemies, and getting to the end of the game with the intent in stopping the major villains B.) only goes on to reaffirm Sonic's internal characterization that we already know, even when he naturally reacted to the change with distrust and disdain.

[Vertekins]

Im probably a broken record at this point but this is kinda exactly how I felt about Sonic back in the Unleashed days, a bland, rather generic character that doesn't really have any flaws about him (doesn't even care that he's turned into a giant furry Werehog) and has a pure heart and is always right and blah blah blah you get the idea. I know Pontac has gotten pretty unpopular around here nowadays but I really do feel they taken steps necessary to have Sonic's character be a lot more down to earth, acting like he has a bit of spark in him, have some character deficiencies and more of a fun loving personality in general. Unless things get really serious everything is just one big game to him and thats honestly the kind of Sonic I can get behind personally. Not saying he has to be a giant goof ball all of the time, but as his general de-facto personality I certainly don't mind it.

 

The bolded part is nothing more than an exaggeration.

 

Sonic is not always right in the Unleashed/Storybook era of writing and his foibles are actually brought-up and criticized by characters such as quite a number of Unleashed's NPC's (The fact that this isn't a factor in the cutscenes is still irrelevant to the point I'm making as non-story elements are equally credible regarding the manner in which a character is regarded by others), Shahra, Caliburn, Lancelot and Illusory Arthur. Sonic is so uptight even in SatBK that he continues blaming Caliburn for his own genuine ineptitude at swordsmanship and even voices the desire to just dump the sword there and then and quit in Misty Lake's Arthur battle.

 

Whatsmore, Sonic isn't the bastion of goody two-shoes incorruptible pure pureness as the detractors of his portrayals in these games make him out to be. This is a guy who did what he had to do with the utmost brutality regardless of the suffering of any poor fucker that got in his way, which he voices complete apathy about. This is evidenced by the way he savagely beats down Gaia's spawn, either mocking them all the way or voicing the view that they deserved it because they got in his way and how he deals with bosses throughout SatSR and SatBK in notably violent manners i.e Pulling Bemoth's horns out, slashing the Mist Dragon's horn off, beating seven shades out of Alf Layla Wa-Layla, crushing the Earth Dragon under a rock column, Annihilating Erazor in molten metal, attempting to slice Merlina cleanly in two for the mere 'crime' of expressing her despair at the Grand Kingdom's future etc.

 

Sonic may have pure intentions and a strong heart in those games but the actions he takes to reach them and live up to that and his attitude towards those who call him out are downright ruthless for the former and very much arrogant for the latter. Which shows that he isn't the one-dimensionally eternally right and pure character he's been labeled as in these specific games and factors into why Colours, Generations and to an extent Lost World are nowhere near as noteworthy as they're made out to be regarding the way they portrayed the character when previous games did it and usually far better.

[metalliccookies]

Back before Mario had his large catalogue of games he had characterization but as time went on he began to become flatter and flatter as the games he was appearing in became more and more vast... his original back story was dropped and his personality along with it, to the point that he has become a shell.

 

I guess it comes down to how you view Sonic's character, I never saw Sonic as a brawler or someone who would simply use strength to win a fight. So during the ware-hog gameplay I never could see him as kind of person who would be ok with having his speed taken from him and being forced to use his head a solve puzzles.

 

Its small things like his howling at the start of a stage or during boss fights just felt out of character to me. I always saw him as someone who would avoid a direct hand to hand fight choosing to use his speed and wits to outsmart his opponents further more I feel he would handle himself with more grace than someone who yells when he is ready to fight.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

at least no one is saying hes a mary sue, that was a new one when I discussed this somewhere else. Sonic is not a mary-sue. Hes just amazing and works at it like every other character does.

[Vertekins]

I guess it comes down to how you view Sonic's character, I never saw Sonic as a brawler or someone who would simply use strength to win a fight. So during the ware-hog gameplay I never could see him as kind of person who would be ok with having his speed taken from him and being forced to use his head a solve puzzles.

 

Sonic is a pretty adaptable character even if he exhibits frustration with things he's been forced to use i.e His new form in Unleashed and Caliburn in SatBK. You can see his adaptability in how he cleverly uses his form's properties/Caliburn to attack and defend himself effectively. I mean Sonic seems to accept how his arms can be useful in one of the earliest cutscenes and then sensically formulates his mobility and offense around that trait. Which proves that he will willingly embrace that which has been forced upon him instead of whining about how it's stripped him of the trait that defined his abilities. Indeed, Pickle and Chip even imply that Sonic likes what he can do in Werehog form.

 

Its small things like his howling at the start of a stage or during boss fights just felt out of character to me. I always saw him as someone who would avoid a direct hand to hand fight choosing to use his speed and wits to outsmart his opponents further more I feel he would handle himself with more grace than someone who yells when he is ready to fight.

 

Why would Sonic try to force his new form to do something it can't over doing something it can? Sonic is not fixated in his ways to the point that he'd force his normal form's style on a form that is in no way adapted to it. He's smarter and more resourceful than that.