NPD: Sonic Lost World LTD on Wii U and 3DS leaked

[Sami]

Well more power to you then, I just find that extremely petty and kind of entitled because at the end of the day you still can't play the game so there's no point.

 

Call it whatever you'd like. I've been buying every single game in this franchise on my Playstations since I was a little kid, missing out on the newest flagship title and having to wait another two years to play the next one is aggravating and I hope they don't try and pull this bullshit in the future. Especially since their original reasoning for making it exclusive in the first place is now negligible as the sales actually didn't increase at all. Oops.

 

Of course there was the extra slap in the face that they completely abandoned the fans of the previous games and tried (rather pathetically) to copy Mario in a vain attempt at grabbing that Nintendo audience.

 

....If you read my first post in this topic, you would know that I wasn't defending it being on the Wii U. I was just saying complaining about a game being exclusive in the first place, and claiming that to be the reason for poor sales is just ridiculous. Sure in the Wii U's case, that was the reason, but exclusivity in general is not at fault. At the time it actually did seem like they could get somewhere with it. I'm willing to bet had Lost World been on PS3 would have done much better. It has a larger consumer market, and probably Sonic fan following.

 

Ah. Sorry, then.

 

 

Fair enough if you didn't enjoy SLW, but to say it isn't ambitious is daft. Anyone who's played it regardless of how much they liked it can see they tried to do something new.

 

I saw a playthrough and didn't see anything particularly ambitious about it. It tried to catch Mario's audience by copying a lot of Mario's qualities. Whoop de doo. 

 

The only genuinely original thing about the game's design was the parkour system, and even that was half-baked and buggy.

[SuperLink]

I saw a playthrough and didn't see anything particularly ambitious about it. It tried to catch Mario's audience by copying a lot of Mario's qualities. Whoop de doo. 

 

The only genuinely original thing about the game's design was the parkour system, and even that was half-baked and buggy.

Ambitious = aiming to making strides to do something hugely different to expand a series' future. Lofty goals. Dude, half-baked and buggy parkour is still more ambitious than any 3d Sonic since Unleashed or even Adventure.

 

And I don't know about you but taking a platformer a lot of people hate, changing its gameplay drastically and trying to 'copy' the most critically acclaimed platformer series in gaming is /absolutely/ ambitious lmao. Like, when it comes to platformer quality how is saying 'we wanna be as good as Mario' showing /any/ small lack of ambition? It's the most ballsy ambitious thing Sega have tried to do with Sonic in bloody /ages/.

 

Ambitious and good aren't synonymous, Sega f'd up but damn don't say their goal, their attempt, wasn't an ambitious one. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Ps. Colours sold millions on Wii and that didn't mark the end of multiconsole Sonic games, no need to be so dramatic about SLW in particular.

[Nepenthe]

Ah, controversy.

Well yeah, I said "I"...but I also represent those who cannot play the game because of this exclusivity. Are you saying I'm the only one who cannot play the game because it's a Wii U/3DS exclusive? Please....

 

Most Nintendo fans will be shortsighted into why they think what I'm saying is "evil" or "bad", while not thinking for those who only afford one console, or in the army where this only one console or those who don't have a console but a solid PC... Yeeeah, and you are saying (well 'implying') that I'm the "bad" guy.

 

Do I want LW to fail? Well no because it's Sonic...but heck yes for solid reasons and for the future of the franchise. I mean, crap. Gosh. Imagine if LW sold a million copies in 2 months.

 

Sega: "Congratulations Sonic Team! 1m+! Guess we know where the fanbase is! From now on, let's put all our efforts in to Nintendo!"

 

No.

 

I understand that yeah, Sonic fits better with Nintendo and all that. But regardless of that, Sonic is a Sega character not a Nintendo character. And I hope it stays that way. I don't want Sega to hand him over to them and lose what made Sega. This "fail" will show Sega that it's a bad idea to continue with this exclusivity and let those other non-Nintendo owners play Sonic games.

 

No gaming company is even remotely ethically obligated to make sure everything they produce is available to all 7 billion people on the planet. That's because gaming is a luxury. You can either afford to play everything or you can't. You are not owed every Sonic game by any stretch of the imagination. Thus, everyone not being able to afford it is not proper justification for hoping Lost World fails, an event that actually risks people's livelihoods and thus their ability to procure actual necessities. You are being selfish.

[MamboCat]

Well yeah, I said "I"...but I also represent those who cannot play the game because of this exclusivity. Are you saying I'm the only one who cannot play the game because it's a Wii U/3DS exclusive?

 

Yeah, dude, no... you don't represent anyone but yourself. You don't speak for me.

 

To clarify; I said I had no bitterness about this, but the figures concern me.

[Wraith]

Yeah, those sales suck balls, which is weird, since at times it seems like you could put fucking anything on the 3DS and it'd pull in half decent sales. Huh.  

 

Even then, this game probably wasn't even a loss for Sega considering Nintendo was probably the one paying for it. Maybe that was why it was so....experimental? Who knows.

 

 

I also don't see why everyone's acting like they will never do this again when there's still about 5 best selling Nintendo exclusive Sonic games over this one. It'll probably happen again. Hell if it's less expensive to for them to develop for the ninty stuff considering their current position, I don't see why they wouldn't do it again down the line.  

[Tornado]

Everyone's throwing around "Sonic is the most popular in Europe" but outside of some funny popularity contest from 2008 that didn't have a considerable amount of voters, is there any real evidence that points towards this claim? Can I get something substantial and actually important like sales figures?

 

I'm not trying to be a downer I'm just genuinely curious.

Actually... I don't remember any sales either.

Odd. I had thought that point would be brought up and had kind of accepted that statement as fact in the past, but now that you mention it I'm not so sure either. I'm genuinely curious where this comes from as well now.

 

The Adventure-era games, especially Heroes (which stayed on the top 10 list in the UK forever), had been like a licence for Sega to print money.

 

Wanting games to fail because you personally can't get it. That's fair I guess.

Wanting the games to fail? No. That's too extreme even when that same selfishness permeates the other side of the coin (wanting those games to remain exclusive so others can't play them was a pretty damn popular sentiment around Colours' release). But you can't sit there and say that, after the weeks following the exclusivity announcement where anyone who even questioned why Sonic + Nintendo = Best Thing in the History of Things were treated like they had a third arm coming out of their ass shouldn't at least feel vindicated when the exact things that were being said by several at the time are coming to pass.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Ah, controversy.

Well yeah, I said "I"...but I also represent those who cannot play the game because of this exclusivity. Are you saying I'm the only one who cannot play the game because it's a Wii U/3DS exclusive? Please....

 

Most Nintendo fans will be shortsighted into why they think what I'm saying is "evil" or "bad", while not thinking for those who only afford one console, or in the army where this only one console or those who don't have a console but a solid PC... Yeeeah, and you are saying (well 'implying') that I'm the "bad" guy.

 

Do I want LW to fail? Well no because it's Sonic...but heck yes for solid reasons and for the future of the franchise. I mean, crap. Gosh. Imagine if LW sold a million copies in 2 months.

 

Sega: "Congratulations Sonic Team! 1m+! Guess we know where the fanbase is! From now on, let's put all our efforts in to Nintendo!"

 

No.

 

I understand that yeah, Sonic fits better with Nintendo and all that. But regardless of that, Sonic is a Sega character not a Nintendo character. And I hope it stays that way. I don't want Sega to hand him over to them and lose what made Sega. This "fail" will show Sega that it's a bad idea to continue with this exclusivity and let those other non-Nintendo owners play Sonic games.

Sonic being a SEGA character does not in any circumstances dictate where his games can or can't appear on.

[Chooch]

I hope Sega is smart enough to blame critical reception and not Wii U itself.

..Why can't it be both? Come on, man. Dismissing the fact that the Wii U isn't doing well is just being naive. We have seen proof time and time again that quality and critical reception doesn't really have that staggering of an affect on Sonic game sales. Sonic 06 has sold millions of copies. Sonic Unleashed didn't sell poorly either and got just as bad if not worse critical reception. (Why I have no idea, but yeah)

 

I get the feeling had LW been on a bigger console with a larger consumer base, this complaint of "THEY SHOULDN'T MAKE IT EXCLUSIVE" would be immensely smaller.

Well duh. Even if you made it a Sony exclusive (Hahaha, what a riot) it would naturally reach more people and likely have higher sales as a result because of the larger userbase.

 

 The Adventure-era games, especially Heroes (which stayed on the top 10 list in the UK forever), had been like a licence for Sega to print money.

I figured as much but is that actually the same now?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Well duh. Even if you made it a Sony exclusive (Hahaha, what a riot) it would naturally reach more people and likely have higher sales as a result.

Possibly. Can't be quite too sure about that though considering how Gens sold.

[Dizcrybe]

Thanks for saying it for me.

 

I also hope they don't try to catch Mario's audience again. Maybe this is the slap in the face they needed to try something ambitious again. Maybe. I hope. Maybe.

 

they won't

 

Changing Sonic's entire gameplay wasn't ambitious enough? They'd be better off with another boost game at this point (even though that's not what I want).

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

No gaming company is even remotely ethically obligated to make sure everything they produce is available to all 7 billion people on the planet. That's because gaming is a luxury. You can either afford to play everything or you can't. You are not owed every Sonic game by any stretch of the imagination. Thus, everyone not being able to afford it is not proper justification for hoping Lost World fails, an event that actually risks people's livelihoods and thus their ability to procure actual necessities. You are being selfish.

.....

Selfish? Am I reading this right? How is making the game available to everyone 'selfish?' You are very blind.

Sega knew the risks with the exclusively as this will split fans from owning the game, LOSING a sale.

If Sega needed money, there are other ways to tackle it. They found the money to hire Sumo and develop Transformed a launch title for the Wii U, but they can't release LW for 360/PS3?...or even PC?

And if it was just one year, I would had kept quiet. But it's not that at all.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I dunno, I am getting an awful sense of entitlement from both sides, although more so from your's; partially because you tried to speak for those other than yourself, amongst other reasons.

[SuperLink]

@Ming

 

Out of curiosity, would you defend Sega's choice to leave Project Diva a PS3 exclusive? Would you argue with those who criticised Sega for calling it unfair? Would you fight for it to be a multiplat game or be multiplat in the future?

 

Also, Wii U owners often have to deal with "Inverse exclusives" (games everyone can play but them), so it's nice to give them somethin once in a while (even if it's not the best)

[Sami]

Ambitious = aiming to making strides to do something hugely different to expand a series' future. Lofty goals. Dude, half-baked and buggy parkour is still more ambitious than any 3d Sonic since Unleashed or even Adventure.

 

And I don't know about you but taking a platformer a lot of people hate, changing its gameplay drastically and trying to 'copy' the most critically acclaimed platformer series in gaming is /absolutely/ ambitious lmao. Like, when it comes to platformer quality how is saying 'we wanna be as good as Mario' showing /any/ small lack of ambition? It's the most ballsy ambitious thing Sega have tried to do with Sonic in bloody /ages/.

 

Ambitious and good aren't synonymous, Sega f'd up but damn don't say their goal, their attempt, wasn't an ambitious one. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Ps. Colours sold millions on Wii and that didn't mark the end of multiconsole Sonic games, no need to be so dramatic about SLW in particular.

 

I disagree entirely. Wanting to be as good as Mario is one thing, but wanting to be Mario is another matter entirely. Lost World doesn't just copy mechanics, it copies the entire structure of the game and even the aesthetic of a series that has always been completely different. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, yes, Sonic Unleashed was the last truly ambitious title in the series. Making a game that borders on plagiarism in an attempt to capture a different audience doesn't come off as anything but lazy to me. While Unleashed did this to an extent (Werehog/God of War), SEGA at least had the decency to come up with an original art style, game structure, and completely original gameplay style for the other half of the game. 

 

 

Changing Sonic's entire gameplay wasn't ambitious enough? They'd be better off with another boost game at this point (even though that's not what I want).

 

No, I don't think copying Mario is ambitious, sorry.

 

 

No gaming company is even remotely ethically obligated to make sure everything they produce is available to all 7 billion people on the planet. That's because gaming is a luxury. You can either afford to play everything or you can't. You are not owed every Sonic game by any stretch of the imagination. Thus, everyone not being able to afford it is not proper justification for hoping Lost World fails, an event that actually risks people's livelihoods and thus their ability to procure actual necessities. You are being selfish.

 

I won't argue your point of putting people's livelihood at stake, as it truly is unfortunate that it might come to that. I agree on that account.

 

However, couldn't it be said that SEGA is the one at fault for putting them at risk in the first place? Me, Ming Ming, and anyone else who was alienated by this game's exclusivity and design don't want these people to be put at risk. We want to give them our money (I do, anyway); we just don't have the funds to spend hundreds of dollars on a console we don't want. 

 

All anyone on either side wants is to buy the games and enjoy them as we always have. Nobody wants Sonic Team to see layoffs, and nobody wants SEGA to suffer financially. However, one of the most important things to remember with any industry is that money talks. A product that makes money will see some sequel or continuation, while a product that doesn't won't. I personally am happy that the sales may discourage them from trying this again, though I do hope the game made a meager enough profit to break even and not put anyone at risk. I'm sure Ming Ming feels the same.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Quite ironic, considering the whole exclusivity scandal with Kingdom Hearts 3 going on as well.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Changing Sonic's entire gameplay wasn't ambitious enough? They'd be better off with another boost game at this point (even though that's not what I want).

So it is ambitious for Sonic to copy Mario and not even do that well, yet it is a travesty and cloning when every damn shooter on the planet copies Call of Duty/Halo?

 

...Huh.

[Soniman]

So it is ambitious for Sonic to copy Mario and not even do that well, yet it is a travesty and cloning when every damn shooter on the planet copies Call of Duty/Halo?

 

...Huh.

 

It's almost as if sassing that SLW is nothing but a Mario clone and doesn't do anything vaguely Sonic or new for the series itself is kind of hyperbolic….Nah that can't be right. 

[SuperLink]

SLW doesn't copy Mario mechanics though.. just visual themes and stage gimmicks. Gameplay wise it couldn't be less like Mario (Mario controls well and actually uses gravity physics as a gameplay factor, for one thing)

 

Anyway it's clear you won't agree so I'm out.

[Sami]

@Ming

 

Out of curiosity, would you defend Sega's choice to leave Project Diva a PS3 exclusive? Would you argue with those who criticised Sega for calling it unfair? Would you fight for it to be a multiplat game or be multiplat in the future?

 

Also, Wii U owners often have to deal with "Inverse exclusives" (games everyone can play but them), so it's nice to give them somethin once in a while (even if it's not the best)

 

Quite ironic, considering the whole exclusivity scandal with Kingdom Hearts 3 going on as well.

 

Project Diva and Kingdom Hearts have both been exclusive to Playstation for years, though. In the case of Kingdom Hearts, the only games that haven't been on Sony hardware are spin-offs. I'd understand if you were responding to someone's complaints about Ace Attorney not being on the Vita, but that's not really the case here.

[Wraith]

 

 

No, I don't think copying Mario is ambitious, sorry.

 

 

Coming from someone who plays and enjoys Mario a lot, Lost World doesn't actually play much like it. I mean aesthetic wise I can see where people are going for with that argument but there is truly something trying to be it's own thing here and comparing it to Mario almost seems like undermining the actual GOOD things this game tried. 

 

I dunno, it looks kinda Marioish but it sure didn't feel like Mario when I was playing it. Going balls to the wall crazy and trying something new is just as ambitious as Unleashed was doing but in a different way. I can understand feeling like they phoned it in if you were expecting something like Unleashed but....y'know, to me, ambition generally means having the balls to shake it up a bit.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

SLW doesn't copy Mario mechanics though.. just visual themes and stage gimmicks. Gameplay wise it couldn't be less like Mario (Mario controls well and actually uses gravity physics as a gameplay factor, for one thing)

 

Anyway it's clear you won't agree so I'm out.

And you seriously think the average person is going to notice the differences just from looking? As different as they are in many aspects, people will more than likely just assume that due to superficial similarities, SLW is a clone.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Project Diva and Kingdom Hearts have both been exclusive to Playstation for years, though. In the case of Kingdom Hearts, the only games that haven't been on Sony hardware are spin-offs. I'd understand if you were responding to someone's complaints about Ace Attorney not being on the Vita, but that's not really the case here.

I'm talking about Kingdom Hearts 3 which doesn't have the excuse of Sony exclusivity though.

[Nepenthe]

.....

Selfish? Am I reading this right? How is making the game available to everyone 'selfish?' You are very blind.

 

I called you selfish for wanting a game to fail just because you're admittedly too poor/too disinterested/too whatever towards the console it's on to buy it. You trying to "represent" other people who may be in your same situation doesn't make the sentiment you've stated any less selfish either.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

@Ming

Out of curiosity, would you defend Sega's choice to leave Project Diva a PS3 exclusive? Would you argue with those who criticised Sega for calling it unfair? Would you fight for it to be a multiplat game or be multiplat in the future?

Also, Wii U owners often have to deal with "Inverse exclusives" (games everyone can play but them), so it's nice to give them somethin once in a while (even if it's not the best)

SuperLink, if everyone can play Project Diva, that means more publicity for Hatsune Miku. I'm down with that. She needs to be well known in the west! >:0

[SuperLink]

Project Diva and Kingdom Hearts have both been exclusive to Playstation for years, though. In the case of Kingdom Hearts, the only games that haven't been on Sony hardware are spin-offs. I'd understand if you were responding to someone's complaints about Ace Attorney not being on the Vita, but that's not really the case here.

There are multiple Miku games on 3DS too, plus Sonic has always had Nintendo exclusive phases and entire series (Advance/Rush) that were exclusive, the comparison is legit.

 

Also, I wouldn't complain if AA was on Vita, I'm far more worred about Capcom killing it than anything that petty.

 

SuperLink, if everyone can play Project Diva, that means more publicity for Hatsune Miku. I'm down with that. She needs to be well known in the west! >:0

In that case I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's fair to want a game to fail.