Sonic Runn..er wait... "SSMB YOU CREATED A TIME PARADOX!"

[Marcello]

Seeing as those weren't around anymore anyway and that they continued with the genre roulette in Unleashed I'd kind of doubt that. After '06 they wanted to try and get back in everybody's good book.

 

Of course it's SEGA/Sonic Team and they tend to not completely understand people's complaints, so who knows.

[Sami]

Anything that carries over from Lost World should be adopted conceptually alone. Parkour is a super swell idea and all, but it was handled so terribly that anything short of a complete overhaul is hardly even worth it. As it is, it's way too stiff, clunky, and arbitrarily implemented for mere "refinement" to make it good.

[Indigo Rush]

Parkour in a Sonic game, I feel, should control like an over-powered Jet Set Radio game, with something like wall-grinding and trick chaining, 

 

Sonic Lost World's was alright, but it didn't have the right feel to it. It's hard to explain.

[azoo]

Oddly, Lost World felt very much like Adventure to me, aside from the level design. Basically, if they tweak the gameplay a bit and take some inspiration from SA1 regarding level design (which they really should, honestly, even if it wasn't perfect), I'd be pretty happy.

 

I guess it's just easier to say that one wants "SA1 gameplay + parkour" instead of "Lost World without poopy physics/steering and overly complex mechanics", since they're really the same thing. :v

[Sami]

Parkour in a Sonic game, I feel, should control like an over-powered Jet Set Radio game, with something like wall-grinding and trick chaining, 

 

Sonic Lost World's was alright, but it didn't have the right feel to it. It's hard to explain.

 

The problem, to me, lies with how stiff the controls are. Sonic, when on a wall, is only able to move in straight lines without any further control being given to the player. It doesn't look free form or fluid, but very mechanical in design. 

 

Wall running in Sonic Adventure, despite being a lot more primitive conceptually, is a lot more organic in its controls. It doesn't feel jarring or segregated from the game's "regular" circumstances of design, but rather flows in and out of it freely in most cases (the exception being when Sonic just stops dead in his tracks and falls if you mess up). 

[Celestia]

Anything that carries over from Lost World should be adopted conceptually alone. Parkour is a super swell idea and all, but it was handled so terribly that anything short of a complete overhaul is hardly even worth it. As it is, it's way too stiff, clunky, and arbitrarily implemented for mere "refinement" to make it good.

Well, that's basically what I meant.

 

The problem, to me, lies with how stiff the controls are. Sonic, when on a wall, is only able to move in straight lines without any further control being given to the player. It doesn't look free form or fluid, but very mechanical in design.

That's true of running straight up a wall, but not really when running along one, since you do gradually "fall" as he runs along. It's not like the boost games were during wall run segments you were in "lanes" ala quickstep sections. Which is why I really enjoyed the sadly few sections where you get to run between two wals, compared to just going up one.

 

But in any case, I agree that it feeling more natural would be amazing.

 

I kinda hope SEGA at least gets the message that parkour is a good concept...it'd certainly be something to help Sonic be a different experience from other platformers.

[azoo]

Part of the reason I've always wanted to see Sonic have parkour in his gameplay was because he's the fastest platformer out there, and most of his games are constructed on the concept of keeping some sort of flow and scaling tilted surfaces. Also, 3D Mario games (or well, most of them) have their own form of parkour that give flow based around acrobatic jumps. Since Sonic's running speed seemed to be a design foil to Mario's jumpy gameplay, and his controls were already flow-centric, it just seems like common sense to take it in that direction.

 

Now that we've seen in a game, I just hope we get to see it done better from here.

[Dizcrybe]

Don't hold your breath.

 

Besides, if Wii348 is right and it was always meant to be a one time thing, why even bother? Why make a gameplay style with so much potential just to immediately drop it?

[Willsy]

Parkour was easiest to program on flat surface, thus why you could only really do it on basic shaped walls and such. If there's problems with it even on flat surfaces, I think it's best that Sonic Team leaves the mechanic alone.

[Dizcrybe]

But if they were just going to abandon it anyway, they shouldn't have made it in the first place.

 

Then again, I guess Sonic Team and SEGA in general are no strangers to wasted potential.

[Gabz Girl]

Anything that carries over from Lost World should be adopted conceptually alone. Parkour is a super swell idea and all, but it was handled so terribly that anything short of a complete overhaul is hardly even worth it. As it is, it's way too stiff, clunky, and arbitrarily implemented for mere "refinement" to make it good.

 

But what's the point of introducing one important gameplay aspect and then scrapping it entirely the next game? I don't want another major overhaul of controls and get used to even more new gimmicks! I want SEGA to stay bloody consistent!

[ImPantsAtThis]

I want SEGA to stay bloody consistent!

 

Good joke.

 

Seriously though, despite Sonic Team's inability to to have consistency in terms of game mechanics, I do think that Parkour, on a conceptual level, has a real shot at being carried over; it makes sense for the character and allows for more vertical level design if used properly. It's also worth noting that ST liked the boost enough to stick with that (admittedly while adding tons of gimmicks to it), so maybe they're starting to realise that you can make things better if you like the concept. That, or they're just failing faster internally to reach better execution.

[Dizcrybe]

What's worse is the boost at least three games to shine (5 if you count the Rush games). Parkour won't even have that much.

[Gabz Girl]

Seriously though, despite Sonic Team's inability to to have consistency in terms of game mechanics, I do think that Parkour, on a conceptual level, has a real shot at being carried over; it makes sense for the character and allows for more vertical level design if used properly. It's also worth noting that ST liked the boost enough to stick with that (admittedly while adding tons of gimmicks to it), so maybe they're starting to realise that you can make things better if you like the concept. That, or they're just failing faster internally to reach better execution.

 

And that's exactly why I want to see it carried over to other Sonic games! I've had enough of boost and I want something new and refreshing for a change which is what SLW did with its gameplay. Oh sure it wasn't very well implemented and rough around the edges but it has potential! If the next Sonic Team team that's working on the newest game can get rid of Wisps, the weird Sonic X-Treme level design and actually improve and iron out the parkour controls then that would be great!

 

No. Boost. PLEASE.

[SlickEvan]

Just in on this conversation but as far as consistency. Boost games were pretty consistent On a serious note though I think that "parkour" has pretty much been in a lot of Sonic games. Not the whole press this button to walk on 'A' wall or 'B' wall. If it is carried over I agree it should only be carried through concept not execution. Because unlike some of the older games, there were no natural parkour walls. They introduced it as a "gimmick" rather than a part of Sonic's move set. As Stephen Frost said it was very "specific" and that's why I think it's dump or do it completely anew. Because running on flat walls is boring. There were no areas where you could just test your parkour out because every area where you could parkour was flat. Either up or foward/left/right. Any bumpy surface and it appears it probably wouldn't work. So if it is carried over I don't want it like Lost World. I want it carried over in concept alone. Just my opinion.

[Dizcrybe]

And that's exactly why I want to see it carried over to other Sonic games! I've had enough of boost and I want something new and refreshing for a change which is what SLW did with its gameplay. Oh sure it wasn't very well implemented and rough around the edges but it has potential! If the next Sonic Team team that's working on the newest game can get rid of Wisps, the weird Sonic X-Treme level design and actually improve and iron out the parkour controls then that would be great!

 

No. Boost. PLEASE.

 

Pretty much this except for the last part.

 

I won't mind if boost comes back; I'll just be severe disappointed that Sonic Team's taking the coward's way out yet again.

[Milo]

What's worse is the boost at least three games to shine (5 if you count the Rush games). Parkour won't even have that much.

 

Six, actually. Generations 3DS. Eight if you count the on-rails gameplay setup as well, which would include the Storybook games.

[PSI Wind]

Let's go even further and count the Heroes special stages and Shadow's Chaos Control :V

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Where is this source that states that Parkour will be dropped? Actual physical present proof would be nice.

[Axl.EXE]

Oh look, another Sonic game for me to be pessimistic about. Yay!

 

I haven't played a Sonic game in years, but I feel that parkour would be a nice thing to have, and it does make sense for a Sonic game to have it.

 

Just... please, refine it and make it not look embarrassingly bad, like nearly every other gimmick Sonic has had for the past several years.

[AaronAnimated]

As awful as Sonic '06 was, I really liked how they handled the multiple playable characters in that game - three main characters, with other characters becoming playable when it's appropriate within the story. I'd like to see that return. If it were done right, it would be a great way to handle a large number of playable characters without forcing the player to replay levels as each individual character.

 

Also, can we please have a serious storyline again? Something like Sonic Adventure 2's story. That would be great.

[Blacklightning]

Well as long as everyone's suddenly saying we should use X game as a basis for Sonic's next outing, I think I should come out and say some kind of hybrid is in order.

 

I'm hesitant to say that Sega should base a game straight off the Adventure style, because knowing them, they'll miss the point and use them as a launching platform for genre roulettes, and the fans constantly asking for it don't seem to understand that possibility. Once you gather characters into a unified playstyle (at least as unified as Tails was to Sonic in SA1) and don't give individual characters completely different and arbitary level goals, though, it would actually be the least gimmicky 3D Sonic game out there. And as much as it pains me to say it, the tightest controlling one, too. So as long as we're strictly speaking core gameplay and nothing else, the Adventure games still have something left to be salvaged.

 

The Boost games... I'm less sure of. I'm convinced that Sonic should have an easy means of speed to make up for his shortcomings with the comparitively gamebreaking characters he's shared games with (mostly Tails and Knux, but even most others are ridiculous in their own way) - it just shouldn't double as a fucking attack. Rolling and spindashing is one thing, because it requires creative use of the geometry to maintain your momentum, so bowling over basic enemies like they're nothing is a well-deserved bonus, but when it comes to a speed boost that literally only requires a single button press being able to kill enemies with it is just too much. I'd even go as far as to say any kind of Boost should just be a quick burst of speed in a platforming game, just to push you into top speed quickly as opposed to holding static at the speed cap for as long as you hold the button down.

 

Though that being said, I'm fucking dying to see a racing game in the vein of Unleashed, where boost spamming would in no way be out of place and the scant actual platforming it had would even be seen as a bonus in the context of the genre. Let's have a spinoff of that if we can help it.

 

For Lost World, at the very least, this warrants a mention - it's the only 3D game in which Sonic can interact with the walls (and cielings!) without the use of a scripted event. And for character best known for running up walls via quarter pipes and through loops completely unassisted, it is absolutely shameful that it took this long. Not many would advocate keeping its control scheme (especially one where you can jump barely 3-4 lengths of Sonic's own hitbox without the use of the run button), but the specific movements it covered definently need to be explored in greater depth and expanded apon - even if not game-wide, then by characters that can make the most of it in their own way (eg: Espio).

 

And for the love of god can we just stop this 2.5D bullshit altogether? I can handle a purely 2D or 3D game, but the way ST's been mixing the two it feels like they're detracting focus from one another, and I'm honestly getting sick of it.

[Salamander]

For Lost World, at the very least, this warrants a mention - it's the only 3D game in which Sonic can interact with the walls (and cielings!) without the use of a scripted event. And for character best known for running up walls via quarter pipes and through loops completely unassisted, it is absolutely shameful that it took this long.

 

I was just thinking this.  In the very first game in the entire series, Sonic could run on walls and ceilings and all it took was a slope to run up and enough momentum to keep going.  I'm not sure why the same concept can't be applied to a 3D space.  In fact, it has been; the Boost games and I'm sure the Adventure games all had limited forms of this kind of movement.  It's just Lost World which decided to have zero slopes and strange straight line parkour.  Was the parkour in Lost World actually more primitive than the mechanics in past 3D games?

 

Make a level full of slopes, say you can stick to any surface if there's a slope leading up to it, angles require momentum in order to not fall off or slip back.  Just like in the classics.

[Blacklightning]

Was the parkour in Lost World actually more primitive than the mechanics in past 3D games?

It's kind of a give some, take some kind of deal. Its controls are kind of silly and practically zero effort is made to explain them, but when it works, it works gorgeously. Again, of special note is that Sonic can actually interact with and move around on walls - Unleashed had a wall jump, and that's about it. The Adventures didn't even have that most of the time - even wall jumps were generally limited to a specific stage gimmick when they actually existed.

 

It's hard to describe how I'd take Lost World's concepts and apply them to a completely different game. Basically it'd start out something like Marble Blast, except the marble is Sonic's hitbox. Then make it less bouncy and tweak some physics so the player needs less assistance to hug the walls hard enough to run along them, boom, core gameplay basically done. All that really needs doing then is a player model that can react to whatever the "marble" is doing.

[Mauro Fonseca]

They'll work from the Parkour. Two or three games to develop formula, change. They've been doing it since 1991.