2014 is The Year Of Sonic "& Sports tape" *see post 1*

[azoo]

I know I talked about this yesterday but again Sonic Team is Sonic Team only in name. Why does it have to be Sonic Team making Japanese Sonic? Why can't it be another company within SoJ? Under any other name, we wouldn't make excuses for them, they have nothing to do with original Sonic, and their current best should be their average but it's not. Sonic does deserve better than Sonic Team, and if that means Sonic Team need to become a far better developer than they are, so be it, because Sonic Team only gets away with their mediocrity because they have the same name as the developer who invented him.

Because I don't want to lose everything the series has established; nor the musicians or artists that's behind all of that. That's why.

[SuperLink]

Because I don't want to lose everything the series has established; nor the musicians or artists that's behind all of that. That's why.

Reforming things is possible, a lot of things Sonic established when he was truly good are already gone, and the same goes for Mario and Zelda but they remained good. They can't be the same developers forever, but SEGA have hired all those musicians and artists, there's nothing stopping SEGA from rehiring them for a game built by a more talented team of developers?

 

Like srsly Koji Kondo isn't going to be composing Mario and Zelda forever, but Nintendo have proven that they have a quality system for ensuring the series' quality and feel gets passed down to the new generations of developers.

 

And that is the difference between Nintendo and SEGA. There's no real reason to rely on Sonic Team when no one who was around when Sonic was fundamentally conceived is even there anymore, Sonic's already lost far more, it's perfectly possible for new people to come in and make Sonic even more like Sonic than Sonic Team do, if SEGA would only do what other developers do and actually shuffle their teams around based on their skillsets rather than the name on the tin.

[Nepenthe]

I think the point here is that there is entertainment value in a lot of the gameplay and narrative material that Sonic Team has created over the years, as well as many of the talented artists and musicians who work there, and some of us are feeling that that value is being completely undermined and waived off like it's meaningless, both by this decision itself and by the implication around here that Sonic Team is now even more useless, that we were wrong to have hope, and that we should just move on and forget, and "learn to love/get used to" Boom in light of its potential success (and I believe wholeheartedly that it will be successful). For me, this is less about giving Sonic Team- or even any other development team- more chances, and more about the necessity of this split. I feel just as much like I'm being treated to something cool as I am being dragged along on a leash by everyone involved in this whole mess. I want to feel fully excited, and I am in some respects, but don't expect me not to feel a little bit slighted either by the discussion going on at the same time.

[azoo]

Well yeah there are things and elements that are gone but that doesn't mean everything now is completely unsalvageable given the team's efforts. Sure, they could get people who were good on the team to come back. And yes you could always get more people to come in and do it even more like Sonic, but if that's the case then why don't you just keep the team that brought the good things and introduce the people that will bring even more good?

Throwing out and replacing entirely just doesn't sound like a very good idea. They could shuffle people around in some areas but to completely disband them and let someone else do it is jumping the gun as much as handing it to some company like... well, Big Red Button Studios.

[JaidynReiman]

I know I talked about this yesterday but again Sonic Team is Sonic Team only in name. Why does it have to be Sonic Team making Japanese Sonic? Why can't it be another company within SoJ? Under any other name, we wouldn't make excuses for them if Mario or Zelda were given to another Nintendo dev and it didn't work out, we'd quite rightfully want them to be with more talented teams again, they have nothing to do with original Sonic, and their current best should be their average but it's not. Sonic does deserve better than Sonic Team, and if that means Sonic Team need to become a far better developer than they are, so be it, because Sonic Team only gets away with their mediocrity because they have the same name as the developer who invented him.

Because its SONIC Team. Sonic Team should be in charge of Sonic. Its right in their name. How do they go about fixing the problem?

 

Shuffling people out of Sonic Team and shuffling others in who can produce better Sonic games. Keep Sonic Team, but shuffle the people in each team around.

[Kuzu]

I think the reason people have such an attachment to Sonic Team is, for better or worse, they're the reasons we're even talking about this in the first place. They're the reasons we have Boom, they're the reasons we have the characters and whatnot to talk about, so saying that they don't matter in the grand scheme of things is kind of spitting on a 23 year legacy; so I can't really blame people for not jiving with just up and replacing them, even if someone else is arguably more qualified to develop the games, it wouldn't be the Sonic that has been established in these 23 years. 

 

 

That said, I'm pretty sure that if another developer were to make Sonic games, that they would understand what people do like about the series and try their best to incorporate that into the games. Obviously, not everything is going to resemble the original product, so nobody should expect it to, but as its own thing as a twist on something you love. I mean come on, Paper Mario still has a lot of things people liked about the main series, so why do people assume Boom can't do the same?

[SuperLink]

Throwing out and replacing entirely just doesn't sound like a very good idea. They could shuffle people around in some areas but to completely disband them and let someone else do it is jumping the gun as much as handing it to some company like... well, Big Red Button Studios.

I didn't even begin to imply they should do that though?

 

Are you fully satisfied with what current ST are capable of? Do you not want to be able to be excited for every game in the series without fear that the game won't be good?

 

I don't want BRB to replace Sonic Team, and I don't want SB to become the main canon, I absolutely do not want either of those things to happen so don't think I'm saying that. I've disliked how Sonic Team have been for a very long time, this arisen discussion is just relevant to that, nothing more.

 

What I do want is for Sonic Team to evolve. The same people aren't going to wake up and become extremely talented and understand the essence of Sonic overnight? The same way the world's most respected devs somehow always manage to make a good game due to the talent on board, I want Sonic Team to be able to do that. So.

 

 

Because its SONIC Team. Sonic Team should be in charge of Sonic. Its right in their name. How do they go about fixing the problem?

 

Shuffling people out of Sonic Team and shuffling others in who can produce better Sonic games. Keep Sonic Team, but shuffle the people in each team around.

Yes, this.

 

Sonic Team is not the developer who created Sonic.

 

Sonic Team is a group of random people that SEGA shoved the Sonic series onto. They have no inherent right to be working there besides their ~7 years experience since the last bunch of layoffs and reshuffles.

 

People should be chosen for Sonic Team based on their skillset, just like Nintendo R&D can not rely on the same developers forever, Nintendo constantly put new people on the teams who understand the games they work with and can make them really damn good.

 

Why

Can't

SEGA

Do

That

 

That's literally all I want you all to understand. Sonic Team is not a fixed group of people who created Sonic, Sonic Team is, just Nintendo Nintendo R&D, a group of people that SEGA put together to handle Sonic. They just need to put together a better Sonic Team.

 

Sonic is not more inherently difficult to create quality content for than any other game franchise, Sonic's lack of quality and glitch-ridden games isn't a coincidence, Sonic Team isn't just unlucky. They plain and simple are not as talented as tons of other developers out there.

 

Stick up for Japanese Sonic, I love him. Stick up for Sonic Team's art direction and music, I love them. But Sonic Team's lack of game design and development talent isn't something people can excuse out of existence. It's not Sonic Team as a concept I have a problem with, it's the fact that they aren't good enough and people seem to think that these same questionably talented people can suddenly become the amazing industry-leading developers Sonic deserves without some kind of serious re-evaluation.

[azoo]

No I never thought you meant that about the Boom thing or BRB Studios. XD

I actually fully agree with you! Sonic Team should keep who does well there and shift out the people who don't. And the only place where they lack is game designers and developers, which is where they should be reshaken around and their positions reshifted.

I never thought that the few incompetent folk would learn how to work it over-night, but I also wasn't supporting the idea of letting the whole gang go for another developer altogether, and crossing your fingers in hopes that some of the folk from ST's art/music department make it back in.

( Also, Iizuka should probably have less to do with the games, just saying :V )
 

[SuperLink]

Oh in that case we agree then. But yeah I never meant to imply that ST should be fired in their entirety, I'm fully serious when I say that Unleashed through Gens have some of my all-time favourite game OSTs, no way should they get rid of those music directors!

 

And even mediocre developers don't need to be fired, they just need to have genuinely insightful and ingenuitive guidance and direction so they can be taught.

 

Iizuka either needs to be given a different position or leave, the only reason he's there is because he's the only one in current Sonic Team who was listed in the S3 credits lol. He's like George Lucas. People trust him because he's got this claim to fame, but now he just isn't all that.

 

I'm confident there are tons of really talented developers and directors out there who aren't being put to use. Instead of firing, SEGA should be hiring

[_______]

I agree with SuperLink, Sonic Team have hardly done much wrong since 06.

 

The graphics were good, the music was great and the coding contained few bugs. It's always the game design concepts and series direction which has been wrong. Which all lies on Iizuka and previous designers since SA1.

 

But I fear SEGA may have done the same mistake by handing the series over to BRB, because from what I've seen so far even they might not exactly understand Sonic. I know it's a spin-off and isn't supposed to feel anything like a traditional Sonic game, but the character designs already mess with Sonic's identity, by making him taller and giving them clothes and fingers, they become more human than animals. Sonic Boom is supposed to bring new fans in, but what if they come in actually liking the new identity, only to find out it's just a spin-off, not in any way the true identity of the franchise? It will create further conflict.

 

SEGA doesn't like maintaining the Sonic franchise as separate entities as is their intention with this undertaking. We have seen this with the modern Sonic design in Sonic 4, and the mishandling of Blaze in 06. I really don't trust them to keep both canons separate. I still hold firm that it's their intention to eventually replace the current one if Sonic Boom becomes popular.

[Soniman]

I don't really think iizuka should be fired or booted out of Sonic Team, I think people tend to forget that it was him that actually made people like a Sonic game or two again so I sure as heck don't want him gone completely, just given a lower position then director or have someone to reign him in.

[Tani Coyote]

Just a coincidence, but I notice that the United States has blue 100 dollar bills in circulation now. Obviously not related to SEGA at all but I think it's a nice coincidence that can be appreciated.

Obviously people fear change, but I think this is a change that we're going to have to accept. If Sonic Boom succeeds, this could be the future of the Sonic franchise and you know what? That's okay with me.

Here's the thing, as much as some of us may protest that this isn't "our Sonic", for somebody it's going to be. If this succeeds, 10 years from now there are going to be kids who look at Boom Sonic and say "that's my Sonic." And as much as I have loved my Sonic since the first time I picked up my friend's GameGear and then rented Sonic Adventure from Blockbuster, I recognize that he's had a rough few years. I've seen my Sonic be bastardized by mediocre games and terrible writing for years. I've seen his world as disjointed and poorly represented as can be for years. As a long-time fan, I've stuck with my Sonic through it all because I love him, but I don't think that what's been done for the last several years is worthy of the franchise, world, and character that was such a part of my childhood.

Frankly, the entire Sonic continuity has been an absolute mess since the days of Sonic Adventure which really strayed a lot more from Sonic's roots than this game appears to. From Sonic Heroes to Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 to Sonic Unleashed, the mood whiplash in the series has been bizarre and incoherent and it's not like many of the games have been that great. I think if you're already a fan as I am, there's been stuff to appreciate—but nothing that would make a new generation fall in love with Sonic in the way I assume most of the people on this site did. Sonic Boom though might be able to do that.

I don't want to say goodbye to the Sonic I grew up with but something in the television clip and the game trailer stirred something in me that I really haven't felt in a long time. I saw something new that was worth loving. If some kid sees this and feels that same thing and becomes the newest Sonic fan, then all of this is worth it. Because even though Boom Sonic will never be the Sonic I grew up with, I think at it's heart it's loyal to it. The character designs are changed. The gameplay might be different. The continuity might be unfamiliar. But the things that really make Sonic Sonic are still there. The speed. The rings. The robots. The blend of cartoonism and realism. The attitude. It's all there.

Whatever SEGA's long term goal is here, I support it. If it means eventually waving goodbye to so-called "Modern Sonic" then I say bittersweetly, "go for it." I believe in Sonic Boom. I think it deserves a chance.

Amen. I won't lie, it'll be sad to see a lot of the stuff I loved growing up go. I'm gonna be the lightning rod here - I love Sonic Adventure 2. Even if now that I'm older I can see a lot of the glaring flaws. I still love it because even beyond nostalgia it has a feel other games do not.

But you know what? SEGA ditching the dark and edgy stories has helped them out immensely. I will likewise be okay with Boom doing something similar. Sonic is Sonic to me; I'm not loyal to just one interpretation of the character. That gives me a huge advantage in that I can appreciate a new universe.

Sonic hasn't been redesigned into a toad like Spyro or anything either, so I'm not complaining on the design front either.

[JaidynReiman]

Just a coincidence, but I notice that the United States has blue 100 dollar bills in circulation now. Obviously not related to SEGA at all but I think it's a nice coincidence that can be appreciated.

Amen. I won't lie, it'll be sad to see a lot of the stuff I loved growing up go. I'm gonna be the lightning rod here - I love Sonic Adventure 2. Even if now that I'm older I can see a lot of the glaring flaws. I still love it because even beyond nostalgia it has a feel other games do not.

But you know what? SEGA ditching the dark and edgy stories has helped them out immensely. I will likewise be okay with Boom doing something similar. Sonic is Sonic to me; I'm not loyal to just one interpretation of the character. That gives me a huge advantage in that I can appreciate a new universe.

Sonic hasn't been redesigned into a toad like Spyro or anything either, so I'm not complaining on the design front either.

I don't think they should get rid of darker stories period. I really liked the dark stories... I just think that they should have deep stories, some maybe dark, but overall a mix of both deep/dark storylines AND light-hearted humor.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

You're absolutely right.

 

And I have a feeling that come release day a lot of people are going to get a very nasty shock. Sonic Boom... is not a Sonic game.

 

 

Ugh. Can we please just not throw that term around like that. Look I know that some people have their own definition of what a Sonic game is but to people like me, such a definition is blurred. Even ignoring the story book spin-offs, Sonic games have varied tremendously in gameplay and objectives with the only linking aspect being presence of speed which Sonic Boom even shows.

 

If I had a dollar for every-time I've heard someone say a Sonic game isn't a Sonic game or was (a rip-off of or) more so an "insert franchise name" game, I'd be able to buy SEGA! It's become as over-used, bloated, and mis-used as the "Mary-Sue" title.

 

And for pete's sake, I don't consider it a spin-off but actually its own different main canon. Either way, not exactly playing like a Sonic game you're used is quite warranted, hence the "breath of fresh air". And even if I grow to love it over Sonic Team's efforts, you won't see me deeming them "the REAL Sonic games" over the Japanese Sonic games. I hate to say it, but it comes off as unfairly prejudicial, and it sounds like I'm listening to a Mariotehplumber rant. Sorry, but that's my honest thoughts on the manner. You don't have to speak positively of it necessarily, but at least accept its existence and let Sonic Boom and Sonic live together. Give peace a chance. 

[azoo]

I don't really think iizuka should be fired or booted out of Sonic Team, I think people tend to forget that it was him that actually made people like a Sonic game or two again so I sure as heck don't want him gone completely, just given a lower position then director or have someone to reign him in.

 

But he also seems to completely misinterpret fan/critic demands and thoughts at other times, having a pretty big track record of missing the point (hence the reason we were putting down ST so much earlier in the first place, lol). But even then, he's not stupid; he has a pretty decent idea of what Sonic is now.

 

He just needs someone to help him out. Regardless of how 50/50 Unleashed was, Yoshihisa Hashimoto's leading of the project was one of the biggest breaths of fresh air this series had ever been given, and without him Colors and Generations wouldn't have happened, simple as. Although he's gone to Square Enix now, we need someone like him to come in and have as much spark as he did, but this time with the knowledge of knowing what has worked for them and what hasn't.

 

Also,

 

@Jova: The problem is that it's not really bound to opinions on how one views it. There is a certain method to Sonic games (yes even with as how broad it's been), and there's no questioning it: Sonic Boom is objectively a spin-off series to the main franchise. No bit of malice in that statement, just pure fact. Backup sources are the president of Sega of America, Aaron Webber, and Mr. Iizuka himself.

[Tani Coyote]

I don't think they should get rid of darker stories period. I really liked the dark stories... I just think that they should have deep stories, some maybe dark, but overall a mix of both deep/dark storylines AND light-hearted humor.

Oh, I'm hopeful we can have dark elements without it being overbearing.

If Boom really is close to the platformers it's compared to, then we should be all good on that front. With regards to the cartoon, they already played with the idea of Tails getting seriously hurt/dying, and while we know he'll be fine, it shows they don't mind throwing in some darker elements alongside the comedy.

I knew we could trust Mike Pollock since I recall he indicated a good deal of variety of dialogue was in the show...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

@Jova: The problem is that it's not really bound to opinions on how one views it. There is a certain method to Sonic games (yes even with as how broad it's been), and there's no questioning it: Sonic Boom is objectively a spin-off series to the main franchise. No bit of malice in that statement, just pure fact. 

And I ask: WHAT certain method!? What am I not getting!? How does this not come off as Sonic game racism over how a Sonic game plays when we've had 3 flipping game eras that have split the fanbase with each different method of gameplay, not to mention one-off gameplays, some which are still main canon??

 

You said it yourself, Sonic Boom's canon does not adhere to Sonic Team's Sonic canon, so if you're going to treat it like a spin-off why do you keep coming off like you feel threatened by it and need to hammer into our heads the possibility of "not being a 'Sonic' game".

 

Because, yes, this mantra of your's is honestly giving me severe mariotehplumber vibes. And I don't like it.

Im still kinda shocked people are gauging the entire game off of VERY quick gameplay segments in that trailer? Sonic's areas looked barren? Well i guess, all I saw was barely even 5 seconds total and Sonic wash in areas where no enemies could generally appear from a logical standpoint, like when Sonic was swinging though the air or racing across the water.….

 

I know the game doesn't display some Sonic aspects so far, but I think people are really reaching based on what we seen.

I'm more shocked that people are now deeming Lost World a "REAL Sonic game" contrary to the past "Marionic", "it looks like Mario Galaxy", "it doesn't even play like a Sonic game", etc retorts, just so they can compare it alongside its predecessors against Sonic Boom. Yeesh, and I thought Microsoft made a 180 with the Xbone; this is just ridiculous. 

[Diogenes]

Even if you thought SLoW was too much like a Mario game, it's still more of a Sonic game than Boom looks to be.

[azoo]

And I ask: WHAT certain method!? What am I not getting!? How does this not come off as Sonic game racism over how a Sonic game plays when we've had 3 flipping game eras that have split the fanbase with each different method of gameplay, not to mention one-off gameplays, some which are still main canon??

then I don't know what else to say to you. I'm exasperated on the subject of having to try to tell you. lol

 

 

 

You said it yourself, Sonic Boom's canon does not adhere to Sonic Team's Sonic canon, so if you're going to treat it like a spin-off why do you keep coming off like you feel threatened by it and need to hammer into our heads the possibility of "not being a 'Sonic' game".

 

Hmmm... maybe because you and other people are so hellbent on talking about wanting it to replace the regular series? :v

 

 

 

Because, yes, this mantra of your's is honestly giving me severe mariotehplumber vibes. And I don't like it.

 

lol I'm done here.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

I've not even said the game is going to be crap. I'm just pointing out and usually I'm right on the money with this kind of stuff, if you are expecting a Sonic game, you aren't going to get one.

Now why you'd expect a full-on "Sonic game" from a game clearly not even in the same canon, let alone the main Sonic Team Sonic series is beyond me.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

And yes, Sonic Team has had trouble delivering for a long time. Does that mean suddenly we don't like anything they've done anymore? The art style? The gameplay? Anything? The idea that if Sonic just became this wouldn't be a bad thing just because it's expanding mythos/story/etc is just.. ugh.

That's my beef.

 

I'm annoyed that you seem to be overlooking the gazillion times I and other members have clearly stated that not to be the case.

 

I've stuck up for Sonic Team for all these years and I won't turn my back on them yet. But I'm not going to act in favor of them and constantly defend them on the notion that they MIGHT finally learn and listen to us, when and if a whole new team does all that and then some with their own Sonic. Hell, I've had to defend Lost World on those possibilities and I find myself constantly having to fend for the Deadly Six because Sonic Team couldn't be bothered to give that much of a damn with the story or writing yet again.  

 

But now, in comes BRB who actually feature reassuring suggestions that they're willing to cover the core aspects of the game and go the extra mile to do whatever. Sadly that's more than I can say for Sonic Team these days, and it tears me apart considering how I loved Lost World. But that time has come for tough love; all the more reason that SoJ best step their game up severely, especially if Sonic Boom makes the big splash it's shaping to be.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I know I talked about this yesterday but again Sonic Team is Sonic Team only in name. Why does it have to be Sonic Team making Japanese Sonic? 

 

There's no reason why.

 

Except of course the fact that when they finally took Sonic away to give to another developer, instead of making something in the same world they went NOPE OUR SONIC NOW WEST SONIC AYY.

 

Doesn't give a lot of confidence

 

EDIT: "they're willing to cover the core aspects of the game" first thing they did is shove the speed away

[Spooky Mulder]

I'm still really confused what part of this game doesn't look like a Sonic game based on the minute of footage we've actually seen.

Sonic? Check. Rings? Check. Vibrant, somewhat cartoony environments? Check. Sonic's friends? Check. Speed?

Check.

What part of this doesn't seem like a Sonic game?

[Octarine]

Except of course the fact that when they finally took Sonic away to give to another developer, instead of making something in the same world they went NOPE OUR SONIC NOW WEST SONIC AYY.

 

That was almost certainly out of BRB's hands, though. The show was likely already going to be in a new continuity (I think Iizuka said the idea for the show came first, even if they've been developed concurrently), and coordinating Sonic Team and a western studio on story matters was probably not going to work out well anyway.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I don't think they should get rid of darker stories period. I really liked the dark stories... I just think that they should have deep stories, some maybe dark, but overall a mix of both deep/dark storylines AND light-hearted humor.

I actually think that despite speculations, there will actually be a balance of light and dark elements. It's very possible we could very much easily get attached to the show for its writing, plot elements and whatnot. Don't let the target demographic fool you when we have phenomenons like MLP: FiM lighting the progressive way.

 

 

Hmmm... maybe because you and other people are so hellbent on talking about wanting it to replace the regular series? :v

 

 

Bull crap. I've never said I want Sonic Boom to replace to main series. I have said that I respect Boom as a fellow main series of its own running alongside Sonic Team's Sonic. Don't put words in my mouth.