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Rey Skywalker-Ren

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I wanted to make a thread on the game I like to talk about: Sonic 4, both episodes. If anyone doesnt know what the game is: Sonic 4 is the game that comes after Sonic and Knuckles. There are 2 episodes so far and we dont know if there is episode 3. (or I must warn, my opinions might be mix in the post)

 

Sonic4ep1.png

 

Episode 1 starts really simple. Stop Eggman from stealing animals. You race through the funky worlds and face bosses you might have met before but on hard mode. You use your moves such as the homing attack and you run really fast through the world. Its a VERY simple game.

 

sonichedgehog4ep2logoby1.png

 

This is ANOOTHER simple game! It got Tails and hes playable! You use Tails in all stages and he helps you with flying anf powerful spindashes. All levels are more orginal than Sonic Episode 1 and the bosses are more challenging. uncurling thing is fixed. So a very simple game.

 

 

My thoughts on these games?

 

I LOVE them! Especially Sonic 4 Episode 2. When it comes to gameplay for Episode 1:

 

Sonic's gameplay in this game was wonderful. He was really fast and has his spindash. He also had his homing attack from the 3-D games I played. I liked the homing attack because it felt like the chain attack from the 3D games and I liked the sense of speed when I bounced off a chain to get to another side. It added a fun challenge. The spindash was really fast and it was good to roll up those 90 degree slopes. The boosters also added a nice sense of speed. The only thing that annoyed me was that when I would roll up a slope, I would uncurl and bump into a badnik and loose my rings.

The stages were awesome as well. For example, Casino Night had you shooting out barrells and walking on playing cards which was cool. It felt like a casino than in Sonic 2 and alot more fun. Lost Labrynth was my favorite stage because of the cart levels (Ipod version of Act 2 was better but) and the walking on ball. It was a run and hard way to get across especially when you had to walk on them without falling. Egg Station was another favorite because you get to fight the bosses from the other levels in this level. Before fighting the final of course!

The special stages were very easy and getting Super Sonic was rewarding

The bosses in this game I saw when I played the earlier games were almost the game but in this game they were harder to deal with, which added a challenge from the 3-d games. Like when I played Sonic 1, I saw the first boss and was easy to beat. It was the one where Dr Eggman had his wrecking ball machine. In Sonic 4, he actually made it to that it could crush you by flipping the wreaking ball. In Sonic 2, the final boss was the Death Egg. In Sonic 4 they made that boss alot tougher... and really tough! The robot actually trips and you have to move and you can use your homing attack to shoot rockets at it.

 

and Episode 2:

 

Sonic 4 Episode 1 was near perfect gameplay but Episode 2 was perfect. It fixed the problems from the last game such as uncurling and loosing momentum when you spindash. Not only that but the newly added character, Tails was more than a follow me character, you can actually use him to help you through the game. He can pick you up and fly to high places making it easy to avoid water pits and go to tops of loops to get those +1 life boxes. Tails can also combine with your spindash make your spindash stronger breaking through those tough metal walls. Also when you are Super Sonic you can break from it by calling Tails to help you.

 

Speaking of Super Sonic, he was easy to control. Most games have uncontrolable Super Sonic but this game, he was faster but you had more control over the gold hedgehog, which also makes this game perfect in gameplay.

 

Episode 2 wins to me in gameplay. Its the same as the 1st but better. Sonic 4 is my first 2D Sonic game and then Sonic Colors DS Sonic Rush and Sonic 4 Episode 2. Unlike the other 2D games this game they put some passion and thought into a very simple game.

 

So what do you think of this game? Thoughts?

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I hate the pair of these games, Episode II to a lesser extent. Giving these games the title "Sonic 4" was a very, very hefty title to live up to and instead of giving me as sequel to my favourite Sonic game, it instead gave me a poor, underwhelming experience with a ridiculous development cycle and hype train. These games lack the charm and originality the classics brought, instead attempting to emulate them poorly through copying, and it just comes off poor. Episode I is the absolute worst for this. Every level and enemy is a complete rehash of what already existed with a new coat of paint, and this wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the abhorrent level design which is superbly linearised and dependent on the homing attack. And of course, who can forget the godawful physics? Sonic, a franchise which is known for its pinball-esque physics gameplay, is given an engine which you stop on a dime if you're not continually holding forward, and rolling into a ball to gain momentum has been done away with. Not even the music is enjoyable, famously emulating what many fans refer to as the "dying cat" synthesiser. It sounds ugly and it has super short loops, which make the tracks even less enjoyable considering the options they have with music today.

 

To me, these episodes are just a stains on the highly enjoyable classic trio and would highly recommend playing any of those three games over this.

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I like Sonic 4 in a strange way; I kind of liked playing through Episode I despite its physics/art shortcomings, and I also enjoyed Episode II despite the constant presence of "WHOOOOSH." There's a part of it, I guess, that I find kind of enjoyable, even though I do end up pointing its flaws whenever talking about it IRL. My liking for the game is kind of strange because I really hate the game as a classic Sonic sequel, because in reality, a lot of the games' components are essentially reintroduced ideas from Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 (no Sonic 3 love :C). I admire, to an extent, the changes the Sonic 4 team made from Episode I to Episode II, but in the end, in a lot of ways, and I think I remember people talking about it when Episode II was underway, Sonic 4 feels more like the franchise running backwards rather than forwards. It tries hard to return to its classic roots (which is an understandable goal), but I think that purpose was applied so stringently to the point it became counterintuitive. 

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You know, it's refreshing to see a Sonic 4 discussion without comparing it to the Classic series left and right. I'm happy that you can simply enjoy a game by its own merits. Good for you, it's the first time I've seen a positive Sonic 4 related discussion in ages.

 

Unfortunately, I just can't get into it.

 

 I hate to be one of those negative pessimists, and as I stated, I'm grateful you can enjoy a game on its own merits, but as a sequel to one of the most ambitious Sonic titles ever made, it just doesn't work, IMHO.

 

Handing it off to Dimps is fine, and it was a brilliant PR move, as Sonic Team had been getting a bad rap for a while, while Dimps' Sonic titles were praised as being better than Sonic Team's. Unfortunately, it seemed that they put almost no effort into it as a sequel. They basically just took the Rush engine and slapped it onto Sonic 4, but without the boost. All of the level tropes in Episode 1 were just reused from the Classic titles, which is a bit disheartening as 3 & K brought so much to the table.

 

I didn't think the level design was well executed in either titles. Emphasis on springs, dash pads, and speed boosters combined with haphazard enemy placement makes for bland levels, and I honestly felt bored. They're both so uninspiring and bland to me.

 

I will applaud Episode 2's visual design, that's how 2D console Sonic games should look. It's got drop dead gorgeous environments, and I can see myself just putting the controller down to stare at its backdrops.

 

Sadly, the Sonic 4 saga just feels... Vanilla to me. It pisses me off that they took the episodic route and didn't put all their resources into one giant full blown sequel, but judging by how Episode 2 seems to be the last of the series, we aren't going to be getting that. But hey, there's always Sonic 5..... right??? All I can say is better luck next time, guys.

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My opinion. As a stand alone title it's pretty bare and can be fun. I liked episode two, but forced team mechanic hindered my experience, because while fun and there can be some goodies for using it creatively it's not enough. It's always in locations which say hey! Use this here! And it hinders my overall enjoyment. As a sequel to Sonic 3 (whole) it's a nightmare. A sequel adds on to the previous title and make it better which this did not offer. I was expecting a lot more of this but it wasn't up to snuff. Not even touching the physics problems, where's my elemental shields, my alternate pathways, and super big levels. My creative level tropes and inspired ideas. While all of it looks pretty (in episode 2 more so) it is rehashed level tropes mixed and mashed. An enjoyable yet no where near spectacular title that is supposed sequel.

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Sonic 4 Episode I has to be my least favorite of all the 2D games... yet strangely enough, it's not bad for the reasons that people often cite.  At least, not in my opinion.  Many people cite the poor physics as the primary culprit, and I honestly find that to be the most forgivable flaw in this game.

 

The most glaring problem to me is actually the blatant recycling of classic bosses.  Don't get me wrong.  Having a throwback to an older game is welcome in small doses, but this game feels like they literally just took Sonic 1 and 2 and retooled them slightly.  This wouldn't be a problem if this were just a minor Sonic game meant to coincide with Generations or something, but as the long-awaited Sonic the Hedgehog 4, it really leaves a lot to be desired.

 

The second problem I have is related to he bad physics, but not entirely about them.  What gets me is that the level design blatantly forces you to do the things that the physics don't want you to do.  Using the Rush games as a comparison, the physics were far from perfect, sure.  But the levels never felt like they were asking you to do anything that you couldn't do easily.  Sonic 4, on the other hand, often had places where it seemed like you should have been able to do something, but couldn't because the physics wouldn't let you, especially in the casino acts.

 

Lastly, the music is really "eh" at best.  I mean, it's okay.  Just not great.  You win some, you lose some, I guess.

 

Overall, though, Sonic 4 is just "okay" to me.  It's really not as horrible as others make it sound, but it's not exactly memorable either.  It does have some positive points.  It does have some positive aspects, such as the puzzles in the ruins, some interesting level gimmicks, and the special stages.  No, I'm serious.  I loved the special stages   They were very well designed and provided a decent amount of challenge without seeming nigh impossible.  Plus, they brought back the surrealism from Sonic 1, which is something I've always kind of missed.

 

Despite having it installed on my computer for months, I haven't played Episode II yet.  I plan to do that once I get a controller.

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Sonic 4 as a whole is overall nice to me. I wouldn't say it's the true successor to Sonic3&K that me and many others probably wanted, but when ignoring that and judging Sonic 4 as a whole...it's quite nice. 

 

I like Sonic 4 episode 2 much more than episode 1. 

 

Story

Appget_News_3284_1.png

So... The story is a continuation to the first episode, so it's nice to see what events happened next for our blue blur hero. Though, episode 2 story makes me a bit sad, but before I get to that reason, let me talk about some of the events. Anyways, the story is just like the Genesis stories where it's a bit simple at first, but things start to get better as the story goes on, and things are told in nice cutscenes with no voice acting (staying even more true to the Genesis titles style of storytelling!) We start the story with Sonic and Tails on the Tornado together and then they decide to land in Sylvania Castle Zone. They work together to destroy Eggman badniks and to defeat Eggman himself, but also Metal Sonic decides to come in and get revenge against Sonic for the events in Sonic CD. Not only all this, but Eggman has some evil plans for the Little Planet that Sonic had an adventure in back in Sonic CD... As the heroes and villains continue to fight, we finally get to see Eggman's new death egg and whatnot. It gets to the moment of truth where the heroes finally win...but Little Planet is locked into the Death Egg Mk. II... 

 

Now this is where I become sad. The story of episode 2 just ends just like that, on a cliffhanger. When episode 1 ended, it ended on a cliffhanger as well but gave us a hint as to what to expect next in the next title for the story, but episode 2 gives us nothing. I'm not sure if this is known around here on SSMB, but I'm a huge Sonic CD fan (my name when I signed up here was "Sonic CD" too!), and when I found out that episode 2 would be involving Metal Sonic and Little Planet, I got extremely excited to see what would happen... I played the game and was left disappointed just to see that the Death Egg MK II was shut down with Little Planet trapped inside it and there's no hint for an episode 3 to continue the story... I know story might not be the biggest thing for people, but it's something big for me, especially when you're using something as big as Little Planet that played an important role in Sonic CD. 

 

I would also like to say that I really enjoyed the cutscenes for both episode Metal and episode 2. I know I said this above, but goodness, these cutscenes are quite nice! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGnZdaBHfXk

 

Zones

Sonic-4-Episode-2-Zone-1-Act-1-Screen-1.

 

I certainly found the levels in episode 2 to be much better than episode 1 levels. In the end, it really just come down to the levels in episode 2 just simply be more fun to play through. Though, I did like the opening level seeing how instead of being another Green Hill Zone inspired level, it decided to me an old ancient castle. I liked how White Park Zone started off as a snow level for act 1, but for act 2 it switched to a carnival level. I certainly found Sky Fortress Zone to be a blast of a zone to play through (especially act 2 and act 3, act 1 is okay). 

 

Characters

Metal_sonic_and_tails_rocket.png

You know, I'm extremely happy that episode 2 brought in Metal Sonic. He's one of my favorite villain characters in the Sonic series, and seeing him in episode 2 was a blast! As in the picture above, he ended up jacking Tails' rocket from episode 1 and used it catch up to Sonic and Tails, he even got his own battle ship in Sky Fortress Zone act 1 and boss. 

 

Though, Metal Sonic isn't the only character that episode 2 brought in... We also got Tails!

Tails-Inline-2.jpg

Finally, another playable character! ...Ahem. Anyways, Tails was quite useful in episode 2 actually! I enjoyed using him to help reach higher paths in different zones, get through water sections quickly, and even use the awesome double spindash attack to breeze through enemies and get through places in a zone quickly. It's also sweet to have Tails helping Sonic fight through different badniks just like the old times in the Genesis games. ...Also, I can't forget the key important thing! Now you can finally let your little sibling/friend play as Tails! Yeah! Let them be your butt monkey partner!

 

Music

Yeah... The music is a step up from episode 1 tunes, but episode 2 (or Sonic 4 as a whole) doesn't have the best soundtrack ever in the Sonic series (certainly wouldn't be in my top 5 Sonic soundtracks list), but still, I will give credit where credit is due for episode 2. 

 

It ended up giving one of the best songs for Metal Sonic ever. That's something I appreciate quite a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd20_FIj-l0

 

It also gave a fantastic remix of one of my favorite songs in the entire Sonic series, Stardust Speedway Bad Future (Japanese). I shed tears sometimes just knowing that the JP version got a bit more love after Generations already gave it a great remix. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hyez-Mq2U8

 

Special Stages

Sonic-4-Episode-2-Screenshots-10.jpg

They're just Sonic 2 special stages...but much easier! You know, I'm actually glad that these were a bit easier than Sonic 2 version because it was nice knowing that I wasn't losing rings whenever Tails was hit by anything in the special stages. I do believe that special stage 7 did become extremely challenging, since I think it took me awhile to get the final chaos emerald, but in the end I did manage to get it and felt very satisfied about getting Super Sonic! The special stages here also had great music...

 

Where's my Episode 3?

sonic_4_episode_iii_wallpaper_by_darkfai*Credit goes to DA member darkfailure*

Even in the end, when I know that Sonic 4 was met with a lot of fans being upset about how it overall was like, not 100% like the classic Genesis games from the 90's and whatnot... I... I still want an episode 3 to appear. I mean, not only to finish the Sonic 4 story completely so I can see what happened to Little Planet, but I also hope to see Knuckles as a playable character. I want to play as the rad red again and see the different type of levels we could probably have (even if some may pay some homages to Sonic 3&K levels). 

 

I know this post was mostly just me rambling about my love for episode 2 in different areas with barely any talk of episode 1, but it's just that to me, episode 2 offered so much more for me to enjoy. Episode 1 was just the start of things, and it was quite basic, but episode 2 stepped it up in so many other areas to the point where it stands out a bit more than the first episode... 

 

Uhh... Yeah! That's it for my love of Sonic 4 episode 2!

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The most interesting thing about Sonic 4 is trying to figure out where it all went wrong.  As I understand it, calling it "Sonic 4" was actually a decision made relatively late on and perhaps proposed by SoA, which seems to undermine the theory that the whole project was a response to the popularity of the Mega Man 9 concept.  If it had been, it would've been massively misjudged anyway - especially the title.  So what were they trying to do?  It seems as if the idea was something like a very early predecessor to stuff like Sonic Jump and Sonic Dash - a quick, cheaply-made downloadable title to rake in some extra cash.  This would explain the use of recycled or nostalgic elements - it wasn't really meant to be a new or remotely fresh game, merely a time-filling callback title.  Ironically, despite the widespread disdain for Sonic 4, it seems as if Episode I might've been too ambitious rather than too unambitious, and calling it Sonic 4 sealed its fate by requiring them to put actual effort in, especially for Episode II, after most people had already established that they loathed it.

 

I've said it before, but it would be very interesting to know how people would've reacted if the game hadn't been called Sonic 4 - if it'd been called Sonic HD or Sonic Blast or something like that (I hear it was codenamed Sonic DL).  If people felt they could've ignored it and didn't feel that the title itself obligated respect to be given to the game, it might ironically have been more popular simply as there'd have been no baseline reason to care and then to feel insulted when it wasn't any good.  Guess we'll never know now.  One more option for the franchise forever tainted because if they try again people will just compare it to Sonic 4.

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I've said it before, but it would be very interesting to know how people would've reacted if the game hadn't been called Sonic 4 - if it'd been called Sonic HD or Sonic Blast or something like that (I hear it was codenamed Sonic DL).  If people felt they could've ignored it and didn't feel that the title itself obligated respect to be given to the game, it might ironically have been more popular simply as there'd have been no baseline reason to care and then to feel insulted when it wasn't any good.  Guess we'll never know now.  One more option for the franchise forever tainted because if they try again people will just compare it to Sonic 4.

 

The game still would had been mediocre at best. Poor gameplay physics, poor music synthfont/forgettable melodies, barebones content, little originality, poorly designed gameplay abilities that range from forced, compulsory, and/or overpowered, tediously long boss battles, heavily scripted/automated level design, etc. People would still compare "Sonic DL" to similar games of it's nature (throwback/nostalgia games, 2D platformers, etc.) both within and outside the series, and conclude "Sonic DL" would fail to match up to those games.

 

Nevertheless, Sega calling the game "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" and proclaiming it to be "the sequel as you've truly imagined it" just made the game worse because it then meant it would be expected to meet or surpass the standard of quality set by the Genesis games on the basis that it was a direct sequel. Which it failed to do.

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You know, it's refreshing to see a Sonic 4 discussion without comparing it to the Classic series left and right. I'm happy that you can simply enjoy a game by its own merits. Good for you, it's the first time I've seen a positive Sonic 4 related discussion in ages.

 

 

I dont really compare to the classics. Yes Sonic 4 is a classic game but not a classic game at the same time. Its just a simple classic style 2D game with modern moves.

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Both seemed underwhelming to be honest, Episode 1's physics look completely broken, I haven't even played it but I honestly think I've seen enough.

 

Episode 2 looks do-able even though the physics are still...dodgy, I could imagine myself playing it,actually bothering to buy it is another thing though. I have similar thoughts on the Sonic Rush series, which has similar physics issues. I only have Sonic Rush Adventure and while I enjoyed to to a certain extent, I don't fancy going to buy other games with a similar problem.

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I think it's the premise if being Sonic 4, named and intended as a successor to the classics, all of which were heavily momentum based. Add that into the fact that people had been screaming for momentum based gameplay back for years before hand. Sonic 4 is revered and people get excited, however when they play it the physics are nothing like the classics at all.

Not to mention sonic can literally stop on pretty much any angle that isn't 90 degrees and stand there.

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Someone like Super Spindash can probably explain the whole physics debacle better than I can, but Ep 1 has some pretty standout flaws:

 

  • When spindashing down some steps, Sonic doesn't keep moving until he hits something/runs out of momentum like in 2 or 3&K, he simply drops when he's got nothing beneath him and stops dead in his tracks.
  • It's possible for Sonic to stand on the wall or even ceiling in some places.
  • When shot from a cannon, Sonic doesn't keep going until he hits something, he instead goes a small distance then drops, as if he hit an invisible mid-air wall.
  • At one point, you get in a large halfpipe and have to run to get out of it. Anyone who's played 2 would think they need to roll to get out, because the classics had you go much faster when you roll down halfpipes as a ball, and 4's supposed to be exactly like the classics, so...
  • Actually, Spindash made a vid perfectly demonstrating what's wrong with rolling in 4 compared to the classics:

 

IIRC the problem is that the physics were designed off the Rush ones (which Dimps also made), but were applied to a game that wasn't a Rush game.

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No disrespect to you, but... yeah, kinda. Unless Splash Hill's slopes are covered in some kind of glue and we can't see it because of the 2D, that vid showed clearly that 4's rolling physics are not as good as the original games.

 

The problem with 4's physics (aside from being screwed as is) is that they billed this as what is essentially a new game in the original series. Ergo, we expect the physics to match those of the original trilogy. And when you play 3&K and 4 back to back, the physics problems really tend to stick out.

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The rolling problem wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't slapped into Balough's voicebox in every single interview regarding the development of Episode 1.

 

"We're going for a momentum-based platformer like the Genesis games. It's Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it."

 

Okay yes, advertisers lie a lot. But what about that whole leak incident where they said "oh the physics will be much better in the final release"? They're the exact goddamn same, still broken to hell.

 

With Sonic Rush/Rush Adventure, they're not trying to be classics. They're trying to be modern games. The problem with Sonic 4 is that its ENTIRE goal was to be a classic invention-- something which they failed awfully.

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No disrespect to you, but... yeah, kinda. Unless Splash Hill's slopes are covered in some kind of glue and we can't see it because of the 2D, that vid showed clearly that 4's rolling physics are not as good as the original games.

 

The problem with 4's physics (aside from being screwed as is) is that they billed this as what is essentially a new game in the original series. Ergo, we expect the physics to match those of the original trilogy. And when you play 3&K and 4 back to back, the physics problems really tend to stick out.

if its bad then Ill just keep my thoughts to myself.

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My problem with Episode 2 actually isn't the physics. The physics are better than Episode 1 but rather than that, it has it's own set of massive problems.

 

Notably, the moves with Tails being forced onto you.

 

Did Sonic 2 force you to spindash? No.

Did Sonic CD force you to peelout? No.

Did Sonic 3 force you to use the insta-shield? No.

 

It's a petty gimmick like the rest of Dimps' unexplainable fetishes that really feels unnatural and tacked on.

 

Another problem I have with Episode 2 regards the speed boosters and springs-- they are even worse than Episode 1. See that one section (you know the one) in Oil Desert act 2 and several instances in Sky Fortress 2 & 3 where there's three diagonal springs slapped in a hallway for no reason other than to be 'fancy' and actually slow down the experience if anything.

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is it bad that I disagree with the rolling thing?

 

There's not really much to disagree with.

 

It may not bother you to any extent (and that's fine), but rolling physics were a massive part of the original trilogy and Sonic CD; and actually were kind of a series staple until about.. 2004? One could say S4 that it's just a "modern take on a classic" but that's simply not the case. Let's look at other examples of games meant to be big returns to their gameplay:

 

 

How come games like these can follow the feel and design of the original games almost to a tee, but Sonic Team / Dimps can't get something down as simple as "roll down hills, gain speed, rocket launch off ramps after build up"? (Especially whenever games like the Sonic Advance series were even able to comprehend this?) For a game that claimed to be a big return to the 'classic' game play, it just doesn't cut it.

 

And of course that's only a part of the problems. Dash pads are abundant and take away your control through 75-80% of both episodes. The team mechanic breaks pacing, and Episode 1's "stop and drop like a rock" feel was so bad at least Sega acknowledged it for episode 2. And the music was pretty bad.

 

But I mean.. I wanted to like those games. Well, at least episode 2, since that one had a decent amount of effort put into it. :\

 

 

To be fair, there's a different version that shows episode 2 physics arn't nearly as bad.

 

It still feels sort of like it's very slow in build-up, making it almost unrecognizable, and you lose all forward speed when you go off the ramp because the game decides to revert to floaty jump mechanics when launching off. 

 

Plus, that's like the only area that takes much advantage of it. Can't say I didn't appreciate it though. 

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IMO...

 

Episode I was kinda... meh. Graphics were meh, music was meh, level design was somewhat good if you take away all 69 trillion speed boosters and the controls and physics were a bit shit. Overall, it wasn't a game that melted my face off when I played it but was it really the sequel to my favourite and first games in the series? Oh fucking NO.

 

Episode II was... actually good. Graphics were great, the composure of the music was decent, level design was a lot better and expanded much more vertically than the previous episode and the controls were absolutely bang on. Physics could have been improved a bit; rolling still wasn't that powerful and badnik bouncing is well and truly gone. Unfortunately, that's about it. It's a nice game, but nothing stood out, nothing amazed me and to be honest it was quite bland. Overall it was just good. Nothing more. But was this a true sequel to the classics? Still, no.

 

Overall, Sonic 4 wouldn't have hurt as much if SEGA didn't take the incredibly stupid option of marketting it as it was done. I felt both episodes were playable and rather decent little games in their own right but considering they're supposed to be around about equal (maybe slightly under) the quality of the classic games at the very least, it doesn't hold a candle.

 

Therefore, when I look at Sonic 4 these days I see it for what it actually is now: not a shining revival of the good old games, but just as another Sonic game. Episode I is kinda bleak, but the second episode was quite nice in this regard. It's a shame that I now have to look at the game this way to appreciate it, I must emphasise.

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