Sonic 4 thread

[Brad]

On the rolling I wanted to say that the design was different then the classics. I played Sonic 3 and Knuckles after I play the modern game and the layouts feel more smooth while the layouts in Sonic 4 want you to use more skill. In Sonic Advance they were smooth layouts but the momentium sucks.

 

I don't understand how "use more skill" means level design that practically encourages holding forward, with multiple sections drenched in speed boosters forcing you along, springs that auto-throttle you along the level and chains of enemies that requires no more than pressing A multiple times.

 

Actually, the whole skill thing was completely taken way by the introduction of the homing attack, air dash and the automated level design.

[azoo]

On the rolling I wanted to say that the design was different then the classics. I played Sonic 3 and Knuckles after I play the modern game and the layouts feel more smooth while the layouts in Sonic 4 want you to use more skill. In Sonic Advance they were smooth layouts but the momentium sucks.

 

Well, its obvious they were designed differently. That's the problem though. People were expecting a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, where the design of that game follows Sonic CD, which follows Sonic 2, which follows Sonic 1. Sonic 4 plays almost nothing like any of those games, and that's where it went terribly wrong for a looot of people.

 

It honestly would've probably been a somewhat decent if not just plain forgettable series of games if it didn't have the Sonic 4 name.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

More skill in Sonic 4!? With all those dash panels, automation and springs, I don't think so!

[Solkia]

This is in reply to Azookara since my fucking computer isn't letting me fucking quote. Don't know why this thing is being such a fucking piece of shit lately.

 

"Why can these games do it but now Sonic?"

 

Because DKC and Assic Mega Boy use the most barebones physics in a platformer possible? My cousin could do that shit in C++.

 

I hate Sonic 4 Ep1 with the passion of a thousand suns. Not because of physics, but because after Splash Hill the level design insists on cheapshotting you at every turn.

 

Ep 2 I'm indifferent too. While I don't really go back to play it, I wouldn't call it badly designed.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Wait I dint understand, its suppose to be a copy of Sonic and Knuckles?? I thought this was its own game that wasnt suppose to be a copy but a game that ALL fans can get into. If I want to be honest I do NOT like the classic games after playing this and other modern games. So I dont understand.

 

I dont hate the game. I think its the best 2D Sonic game i play and this is my opinion.

[azoo]

This is in reply to Azookara since my fucking computer isn't letting me fucking quote. Don't know why this thing is being such a fucking piece of shit lately.

 

"Why can these games do it but now Sonic?"

 

Because DKC and Assic Mega Boy use the most barebones physics in a platformer possible? My cousin could do that shit in C++.

 

Eh, you got me there. :v But my point still stands.

 

It really shouldn't be that hard to do. It never should've been that hard to do. Dimps were able to do it before, so there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to replicate it.

 

But yeah Sonic 4's bad physics are only half of it's problems.. as Episode 2 proves.

[Brad]

Wait I dint understand, its suppose to be a copy of Sonic and Knuckles?? I thought this was its own game that wasnt suppose to be a copy but a game that ALL fans can get into. If I want to be honest I do NOT like the classic games after playing this and other modern games. So I dont understand.

 

No, it's a sequel to Sonic&Knuckles, much as that was a sequel to Sonic 3, and that to Sonic 2, etc.

 

The idea of a sequel is to take the gameplay and ideas established in the previous games and build on them. But Sonic 4 fails at this. It goes back and basically copies existing level tropes, bosses, enemies... The music doesn't advance forward at all (in fact, I'd say it goes backward), the gameplay poorly emulated the very basic formula found in the originals... the fact of the matter is, it's unfair to say this game isn't meant to be compared to the classics, because as Sonic 4, it's expected to live up that very name.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

so its not supposed to have ANY modern touches? I hear from people who hate the game that fans like me are not suppose to like the game because were not classic fans. I am a modern fan...?

[Solkia]

Anyone who tells you what game you should and shouldn't like are fucking assholes.

 

I seriously hope no one here did this, but I'm not holding my breath.

[JAiRO]

Wait I dint understand, its suppose to be a copy of Sonic and Knuckles?? I thought this was its own game that wasnt suppose to be a copy but a game that ALL fans can get into. If I want to be honest I do NOT like the classic games after playing this and other modern games. So I dont understand.

 

I dont hate the game. I think its the best 2D Sonic game i play and this is my opinion.

 

It's not supposed to be a copy of Sonic & Knuckles, it's supposed to be a copy of the formula the classic games created. It was attempting to trail off the success of it's predecessors, but failed pretty miserably (See Azookara's post).

 

I don't understand why you like it more so than the classic games, considering how much better the movement, level-design, music, etc. was in the classic games. I suppose it's all opinions though, maybe if I hadn't grown up with the classics I would enjoy Sonic 4.

 

so its not supposed to have ANY modern touches? I hear from people who hate the game that fans like me are not suppose to like the game because were not classic fans. I am a modern fan...?

 

I would have been fine with the homing attack, the modern graphics, and modern Sonic being in the game, if it had decent physics. It has many modern touches, and you like what you like, you don't need a label to tell you what to enjoy.

[azoo]

Wait I dint understand, its suppose to be a copy of Sonic and Knuckles?? I thought this was its own game that wasnt suppose to be a copy but a game that ALL fans can get into. If I want to be honest I do NOT like the classic games after playing this and other modern games. So I dont understand.

 

I dont hate the game. I think its the best 2D Sonic game i play and this is my opinion.

 

S3K wasn't a copy of any of the games before it, so neither would this be. It just uses the same mechanics, and that was the point of making a Sonic 4. It's a sequel! :v

 

Also, it's impossible to make a game all fans could get into. The point of the game was to make a sequel to a line of what's considered the series' greatest games. You may not like any of them that much at all but it seems most of the fanbase does, if not just straight up adores them. 

 

You could like this game though. I'm not jumping on that. XD

 

so its not supposed to have ANY modern touches? I hear from people who hate the game that fans like me are not suppose to like the game because were not classic fans. I am a modern fan...?

 

No no no, sorry if that's what it seemed like I was saying. Sonic 4 could've introduced 'modern' elements like the homing attack and it'd still feel like it should, but Sonic 4 wasn't even thinking of it like that. They tacked it on in very cheap ways, making what could've been a game of flow into "tap A up this ladder of enemies or fall into the pit".

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

It's not supposed to be a copy of Sonic & Knuckles, it's supposed to be a copy of the formula the classic games created. It was attempting to trail off the success of it's predecessors, but failed pretty miserably (See Azookara's post).

 

I don't understand why you like it more so than the classic games, considering how much better the movement, level-design, music, etc. was in the classic games. I suppose it's all opinions though, maybe if I hadn't grown up with the classics I would enjoy Sonic 4.

 

 

I didnt start out with the classics. My first Sonic game was Sonic 2006 and my first 2D was Sonic 4 and Sonic 4 got me to try the others 2Ds like Sonic colors DS and them. Then I try the classics and Sonic Advance and i was very disappoint

[Brad]

Depends how you define modern touches, it's a very broad topic. I'd personally define it as the existing gameplay formula with level design that encourages you to use momentum and skill to gain speed, with brand new, original stages, original enemies, music that uses real instruments and longer loops, original boss ideas... That's what I wanted from this game and it didn't live up to it for me. 

[Amomynous]

I also disagree somewhat with "It's supposed to be classic but it's not." being held so much against the game.

 

Yes, Sonic Team did say it was supposed to be classic, which is a pain, but taking it on it's own merits is more important.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I also disagree somewhat with "It's supposed to be classic but it's not." being held so much against the game.

 

Yes, Sonic Team did say it was supposed to be classic, which is a pain, but taking it on it's own merits is more important.

I see Sonic 4 series as classic game with modern fun to get modern fans into the game. I though the 2D games were all going to be boring and not exciting like the 3D and when I play this game and Sonic Colors DS i was wrong. Sonic 4 really impress me because it had moves that I was used to all in a game that was a classic.

[Sami]

Both games are poor, lazy attempts at trying to capitalize on nostalgia without bothering to understand and do the classics any justice.

Sonic 3&K followed up its predecessors unique and intuitive game design, building upon it with more playable characters, much more expansive level design, impressive graphics and sound for the time, and a meaningful narrative progression in an age where that kind of game had no story at all.

Sonic 4 has less characters, less content, no story, smaller levels, and more. It's a package of shit level design, shit music, shit visuals, and shit physics. It's an insult to the legacy of the games it follows up on, the developers of the original trilogy, and the fans who grew up with them.

So yeah, fuck that game. Peace.

[JAiRO]

I didnt start out with the classics. My first Sonic game was Sonic 2006 and my first 2D was Sonic 4 and Sonic 4 got me to try the others 2Ds like Sonic colors DS and them. Then I try the classics and Sonic Advance and i was very disappoint

 

Well if you enjoy them, good for you. I just like the classics better than Sonic 4, because to me the classics felt like a ton of people coming together to create something special.

 

Sonic 4 just felt like a paycheck.

[PaddyFancy]

I love the classics, particularly Sonic 3&K, despite not being super great at it. I actually liked Sonic 4 Episode I enough that I 100%'d it within the week of getting it. But many moons have past since then and much like Sonic Heroes and Sonic 06 (both games I also enjoyed when I played them at the start), I've grown less tolerant of the gameplay and don't feel like playing Sonic 4 again.

[TheOcelot]

I think it's interesting to look at Sonic 4 from the perspective of it being the first 2d game someone new to the franchise plays. It's not like either episode is a terrible product. It must have already been responsible for getting loads of kids hooked on Sonic. I think Sonic 4 offers enough entertainment that I can see why some people who played it before Sonic 1 or 2 might prefer it over the classics.

 

The harsh reality is that Sonic 4 was never meant to be a sequel to Sonic 1,2 & 3 and *cough* Sonic CD. Sonic 4 was an experiment to see how much interest and sales a new 2d game good generate. Sonic 4 Ep1 was designed in mind for mobile devices - hence the 'exclusive mobile' levels -  as that is one of the main markets SEGA have been focusing on over the last few years.

 

It's an experiment which has worked.........to an extent. We would not have gotten the excellent remastered versions of Sonic CD, 1 and 2 if it wasn't for Sonic 4. I think the popularity of the 2d gameplay has encouraged Sonic Team to continue implementing 2d level design in 3d Sonic games (which can be seen as good and bad depending on how you look at it). The sales of Sonic 4 have been decent on most devices, although Ep2 sales definitely took a knock due to the fanbase reaction over the quality of Ep1, and Ep2 not being brought to the Wii/Wii U.

 

I don't replay either episode much - not so much because I don't like them (especially Ep 1) - but because I find them boring. They are not designed well for replay value. I would play them more on my phone, but the android version of Ep1 is piss poor, and the Ep2 android version causes my phone to crash and won't play any music

 

I like the tweaks they made to Ep2, like how Sonic no longer uncurls when in the air or sticks to a wall. The Metal Sonic bosses are fun and I think Ep2 is graphically the best looking 2d Sonic game I've ever played.

 

Whilst I would like to see an Ep3, I've kind of lost hope it will ever happen.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

i also thought that Sonic 4 was a classic game thats trying to get all fans to play. When I first played Sonic games I played all the modern games because it had something I was use to. I heard they had 2D games but i thought that it was gonna be boring because i saw gameplays of Sonic 1 and Sonic Chaos and such. But I saw Sonic 4 and I had to try. It had the same Sonic model and I saw the gameplay and it had moves I use alot so I tried. I love it. it had the homing attack and it was a very simple game with thought into it. It was fast like the 3D games i love and it felt like the 3D games i love so much (Sonic Colors, Sonic Unleashed etc etc). but it wasnt a modern game! It was a classic game and I couldnt belive it. I was a modern fan enjoying a classic game for those fans and i felt they made the game in that in mind.

 

So I love the game for that because they didnt just think about one group of fans. And when i played the other classic games I was disappointed because it was boring and didnt feel the same as the games i started with. Sonic 3 and Knuckles i found okay but meh. I thought the Advance games were shitty. And Sonic Colors DS I love that game but I like Sonic 4 more because it felt like I can like a classic game. Sonic Colors DS was not a simple game and it was more a modern game in 2D. So was Sonic Rush. I like Sonic Rush but as Sonic and yeah.  

 

But Sonic 4 I was amaze. It was soooo simple. Just Sonic saving animals from Eggman and it has so much pasison and thought in the musics and design and Sonics moves. I was happy. Sonic 4 Episode 2 was very simple to but it was more action pack in the levels and more orginal and Tails was helpful. I love to use him to help me in the game. So it wasnt complicate. And it fixed that uncurling thing I didnt like, the only thing i didnt like about Sonic 4 Episode 1. So yesh I really like this game and its the only 2D games on my top 10 list.

[Indigo Rush]

I have a good amount of fun with Sonic 4. I like its pacing and sense of speed, and much of the time, the music is catchy. I even have fun with the homing attack. Same applies to Episode 2, as well, at a much greater level, actually. Some of my favorite games to zone out to. In that context, I think Sonic 4 is pretty harmless. Not perfect by any means, and tainted by "Sola Sonica," but pretty enjoyable regardless. It's an alright Sonic game.

 

But when you compare it to the original Genesis games, y'know, the games that it was marketed to be a true sequel to, Sonic 4 becomes absolute garbage. In fact, I've gone through stages where I've hated both games because of that. They really messed that up. And don't get me wrong, but I cannot, in any way, reasonably and rationally justify its flaws in the context of being a "Classic" game. In that sense, it's trash. It's an awful "Classic" Sonic game.

 

My enjoyment with Sonic 4 varies depending on whether or not I'm in the mood for an actual Classic Sonic experience, or if I just want to play Sonic in general. When I play it without the context of it being a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, my favorite game in the entire series, it's quite fun and sometimes even addictive. When I try to play it like something that came from the Genesis era, I loathe it with unequal measure. 

 

In short, it's an alright Sonic game, but it's an awful "Classic" Sonic game.

[SlickEvan]

In my honest opinion you're giving it too much credit. I don't think they had all that in mind. I personally feel as if Sonic 4 is not a classic game but more just a game. I'm impartial to it as a whole but it doesn't seem to fit into "classic". Seems more like a spin-off game.. (gone wrong. Joking ) joking

[Indigo Rush]

It's called Sonic 4, marketed as "Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it," at one point called "Project Needlemouse" and is always referred to as the "crucial first step" to returning Sonic to his roots.

 

There's no way you can't interpret that as an attempt at making a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Not saying they treated it as such (WHY would you put the sequel to the most important line of games in your star franchise in the hands of Dimps), but it was sure as sunshine marketed that way.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

i wasnt around when they say truly imgainded and project needlemouse. what is that?

[Indigo Rush]

Ah, you weren't around when Ken Balough was still working for SEGA.

 

Hilarious times.