Even If Sonic Boom game quality is good.

[Salamander]

If the reviews are good, they can put poor sales on the Wii U down to the console and make that their excuse to expand the brand to other consoles in future.

 

If the reviews are bad and if sales are bad... worst-case scenario, really.  Boom is a big gamble - for their finances and for Sonic's reputation.  If it doesn't pay off, I don't know if there's anything they'll be able to do for Sonic any more, save to be content to toil in obscurity and mediocrity.

[JAiRO]

Well my point of view is..... WHO THE HELL CARES!?

i mean no one wants to know if the game will do good and stuff accept for freaking sega!!!!!!!!

its a game that is meant to be fun and interesting rather than just financial issues.

I for one wont be on this topic again

i hope you learnt something from this...

 

The whole point of this topic is to discuss finances.

 

I didn't "learnt" anything. I'm concerned for the financial situation of the company that houses my favorite franchise, if they're making a huge investment like this it's worth discussing.

[Gligar13]

For starters, the Wii U is likely to pick up this year. It not only finally has Nintendo's edge of lower price behind it, but it also has a much bigger line of exclusives. The ultimate reason the Wii U has lagged is because it was more expensive than comparable consoles and didn't really have many exclusives to begin with. I mean, did anyone ever look at the Wii U's selection when it first came out? Practically everything barring a handful of games could be purchased on any other console, and it was more expensive than a PS3 or 360 as well. It's a no brainer that it wouldn't sell well except to people who REALLY love Nintendo IPs.

But now it has Smash Bros. which is a big seller, as well as plenty of other titles. It's likely the tide will turn. Look at the 3DS - Nintendo can still make competitive consoles, they just released the Wii U Wii too early.

Will Boom run a profit...? Hmm, unlikely given that Transformed was multiplat and still could only score a million plus on its own. However, I still think it will sell well in Wii U terms. Merchandise can pick up the slack I think if it's as hugely popular as it's expected to be.

The idea is this is long-term: I doubt Boom 2 would be a Nintendo-exclusive. And if it's anything like Transformed? Boom 2 will be a MASSIVE hit.

The problem is, if the new smash brothers isn't accepted among the competitive community, it will become another Halo 4.

If you don't know what happened with that game, let's just say the population dropped severely after launch and it's literally worthless at the local GameStop.

[VGamer]

Cause if somethings not making money they are gonna stop putting money into it.

 

Once that sign pops up I'll be worried, but at this point nothing at all has pointed towards Nintendo or Sega stopping support for the Wii U. Both are still making games for the consoles, and pretty good games in my honest opinion, so I'm pretty content.

[Blacklightning]

See the thing is, I love the Sonic franchise and I want to see it remain relevant if/when I have kids, so they can enjoy the games too. As such, you can't really avoid talking about business and financials.

I'll be perfectly honest, I don't give a flying fuck.

 

Money has dictated the decisions of publishers for as far back in this generation as I can remember, and in all the wrong ways. It's money that told Capcom to focus all their efforts on mobile gaming in place of literally anything their audience has asked of them for years. It's money that coaxed Microsoft into releasing the Xbone before the majority of their selling points were even fucking finished, and almost turned it into a firmware-level DRM box to boot. It's money that convinces Sega to release Olympics crossovers year after fucking year instead of the crossover platformer fans of both franchises have always dreamed of since Gamecube days. And it's money that told the developers of this that among things, Knux has to be a fucking bulked-up mutant now, completely forgetting that his signature ability is gliding, because apparently it wasn't obvious enough from the huge spiked boxing gloves and the fact his name is literally Knuckles that he's supposed to be the strong punchy type too.

 

You're telling me I should worry about money because it's entirely possible Sega will lose a butt-ton of it on this. And you know what? No joke, I would respect that. Because it would mean that unlike most companies I've gotten tired of hearing of these days, these people would be putting the enjoyment of the consumer ahead of their own financial needs - something I've known only Platnium to do off the top of my head. In a perfect world developers would just make the best damn product they could and publishers would only have to worry about making them marketable, but I suppose you're right about one thing - beggars can't always be choosers.

 

I don't care if any of you think this sounds stupid or naieve. I just want videogame developers to have some god damned dignity again.

[Indigo Rush]

Meh, I disagree with that opinion.

 

That's not an opinion. It's an educated inference based on facts.

 

Opinions have to do with preference, ie: I think Sonic Boom is going to be fun. Fun is based on personal subjective preference - as a game in itself, some people are not liking what they see, and that's their opinion. And you have a right to liking it despite what others think about it. 

 

Educated inferences on the other hand are grounded in speculation on objective fact, ie: Sonic Boom will not be profitable for SEGA in the short-term. We can assume this because the Wii U is doing poorly in overall sales worldwide. The install base for Wii U owners is negligible in comparison to the current market and the market that preceded it. From that small pool of users, an even smaller group will even be interested in Sonic Boom in the first place. Then you need to divide those who are interested in Sonic Boom with those who will pick the 3DS version over the Wii U version either out of preference or simply not owning a Wii U to begin with. 

 

Everything I stated regarding the state of the Wii U is true and documented. Assuming that Sonic Boom will sell well despite all the evidence working against it is simply either delusion or blind faith. Even if every single Wii U owner bought Sonic Boom, it would not turn up a massive profit. The only way for the tides to turn is for Sonic Boom to somehow become a "killer app" and drive Wii U sales on its own, but we have absolutely no way to determine that this is likely. Sonic sells well for sure, but he hasn't been a system seller since the Gamecube... and the Gamecube wasn't that hot of a seller, either.

[Blacklightning]

you guys do realize there's a 3DS version right

 

i mean it's all well and good to claim the WiiU version won't sell well but the portables always get conveniently swept under the rug whenever this discussion happens

[Indigo Rush]

I'm sure the 3DS version will do quite well, especially in comparison to the Wii U counterpart, but how will that work with the profits going to Big Red Button specifically? An entirely different team is making the handheld version, if I recall correctly. (Sanzaru Games, right?)

 

Unless all the profits just go to SEGA and they distribute it however they like. I'm not very savvy when it comes to those particular details, so I could be missing something.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Indigo Rush

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Whether or not the Wii U version profits, is something we've yet to see. It could profit, or it could not. Either way, I hope the game's fun.

[Salamander]

And it's money that told the developers of this that among things, Knux has to be a fucking bulked-up mutant now, completely forgetting that his signature ability is gliding, because apparently it wasn't obvious enough from the huge spiked boxing gloves and the fact his name is literally Knuckles that he's supposed to be the strong punchy type too.

 

Not to quibble with your wider point, but I always regarded Knuckles's signature ability as climbing... which does use his knuckles, while gliding does not, and indeed we've seen a little of him climbing in the trailers, I think.

 

I don't care if any of you think this sounds stupid or naieve. I just want videogame developers to have some god damned dignity again.

 

I don't disagree, but they also have to balance personal dignity with not going bankrupt.  It's true that many companies at present seem to have a hard time even trying to achieve such a balance, though.

 

I don't know if dignity is all that significant here, though.  Boom has been in the works for years, and therefore before anyone knew how poorly the Wii U would perform, so putting Boom on the console isn't necessarily a vote of confidence or putting the consumer's enjoyment above financial considerations - they'd simply gone too far to be able to back out.  Likewise, if Boom is a dreadful flop and Sega keeps on pushing it regardless with further titles and sequels, that might well be more an attempt to wring as much as they can out of their investment because simply dropping it would be a waste.  Ultimately, I sense that's how things are going to go.  It would be terribly presumptuous to predict that Boom will be a wild success that will drive console sales, so let's say it has middling success - they'll keep on trucking in an attempt to find a sweet spot for it.  Much as they're doing with the Japanese arm of the franchise, in fact.  It would take something quite startling to prevent them from contemplating a (multiplatform) Boom 2.

 

you guys do realize there's a 3DS version right

 

i mean it's all well and good to claim the WiiU version won't sell well but the portables always get conveniently swept under the rug whenever this discussion happens

 

The Wii U version is the star, though.  It's the vehicle they've used to announce the whole Boom franchise.  As a console game it's going to be bigger and more ambitious than the handheld version, and consequently its failure would make poor publicity even if the 3DS version sold well - in fact, I'd say that the 3DS version would have to be a runaway sales success to mitigate any reputational damage from a Wii U flop.  And that in turn affects the direction they'll take with future titles in the franchise.  Lost World unsettled a lot of previously safe assumptions about Sonic's handheld popularity, though, but I think this partly depends on what kind of a title Boom 3DS is.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Meh, I disagree with that opinion.

 

Ok then, but the fact remains as it stands right now, Boom will not make profit if that budget is correct.

 

You might think "Oh well the Wii U has a 5 million install base" Yes, but that 5 million install base means absolutely nothing when you consider the following.

 

Since the launch window, games which were expected to sell amazingly well are not. Mario especially sold very poorly considering it's a first party title and... it's Mario. Third party titles are simply bombing all over the place in every region.

 

If 5-6 million install base meant an almost instant success, then virtually every game on the PS3 and Xbox 360 would sell hundreds of thousands in it's first few weeks, when we know this is far from the reality and incredibly rare, even for first party exclusive titles.

 

To make profit from a $20 million budget, Boom has to sell around 1 million in it's first week... two weeks at the most. Any length of time longer than that and it has to sell a lot more. And by a lot we're talking tens of thousands.

 

So far, with the exception of launch titles, not one Wii U game has sold more than 1 million copies in it's first week... Even Mario couldn't do it. The last Sonic game on the Wii U was Lost World, that game shipped around 600,000 copies in it's first week. Don't forget, shipped doesn't mean it sold that many.

 

So Boom has to ship more than 400,000 copies, and become a 'sell out' game in order for it to make profit.

 

And none of this has taken into account what game releases there will be come November when this game comes out.

 

 

 

Theres a 3DS version

 

Since that version is being made by a different studio, it would not surprise me if it has a budget separate from this $20 million figure.

[omote23]

Ok then, but the fact remains as it stands right now, Boom will not make profit if that budget is correct..

 

 

Totally agree.

I'm very worried that this game won't over break even and even Sonic franchise will be abolished by Sega Sammy Group Stockholders

 

 

 

 

To make profit from a $20 million budget, Boom has to sell around 1 million in it's first week... two weeks at the most. Any length of time longer than that and it has to sell a lot more. And by a lot we're talking tens of thousands.

I think 20m dollars break even is 1,000,000~1,570,000 copies and I think this game isn't over break-even..

 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Wait, so this is just another one of your ploys to see to it that SEGA abolishes and sells Sonic, AGAIN!? Seriously Omote, don't you ever get tired of doing this!?

[Sami]

No, it won't sell well on Wii U. You'd need roughly 20% of all Wii U owners in the world to buy the game just to reach the 1 million mark. Most games are lucky to reach even 5% of their respective platform's audience once the launch period ends.

 

Yes, it might do alright on 3DS. The system's suffered some relatively low software sales apart (with exceptions of course), but the install base and intended audience of this game should make way for a decent financial success.

 

No, SEGA won't kill Sonic. It's their flagship franchise and has consistently made them money even when the quality of the games flatlined.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it'll sell on the Wii U and the 3DS in the future.

 

Could profit on either, and I'm feeling optimistic anyway.

[Blacklightning]

Not to quibble with your wider point, but I always regarded Knuckles's signature ability as climbing... which does use his knuckles, while gliding does not, and indeed we've seen a little of him climbing in the trailers, I think.

I'm sure we can compromise and say they're both important insofar as one covers a lot of lateral ground and one covers a lot of vertical ground, but the reason I bring gliding up is because it's completely at odds with the spontaneous extra weight he's gained, and to be perfectly fucking frank I wouldn't be surprised if BRB actually forgot he could do it at all. But yes, I digress.

 

 

I don't disagree, but they also have to balance personal dignity with not going bankrupt.  It's true that many companies at present seem to have a hard time even trying to achieve such a balance, though.

 

I don't know if dignity is all that significant here, though.

I should probably rephrase that. This isn't so much a problem I have with Boom specifically so much as the industry as a whole. Usually whenever the subject of money comes up it's because the publisher wants to tap into a new demograph at the expense of the old one, or spend a lot of it in expectations of sales goals they could never possibly reach realistically, or make an awesome game and earn basically fuck-all from it because they forgot advertising exists. Literally every single time I hear financial talk in the gaming biz it's always bad news, and I'm just sick of it. I just want to talk about videogames and how they do critically if nothing else, because unless you're investing in the company or it's in dire, dire shit (and I don't think Sega's doing Capcom levels of bad yet) it really shouldn't concern us that much.

 

On the subject of Boom itself I can't really say all that much in particular, other than they're spending way too much on a reboot nobody asked for.

[omote23]

Wait, so this is just another one of your ploys to see to it that SEGA abolishes and sells Sonic, AGAIN!? Seriously Omote, don't you ever get tired of doing this!?

 

wait.. I don't like abolish Sonic franchise. I like Sonic and Sega Sammy Group and their Subsidiaries (Especially TMS and Paradise Sega Sammy), But If Sonic boom would be serious damage to Sega's financial statements, Sega would consider about abolish or Sonic franchise and even give up package game business.

Please remember 2012 restructuring, They loss over 7.6B yen (individual) during FY2012 and then. they give up make new franchise and their development ability is dropped,

[Sami]

wait.. I don't like abolish Sonic franchise. I like Sonic and Sega Sammy Group and their Subsidiaries (Especially TMS and Paradise Sega Sammy), But If Sonic boom would be serious damage to Sega's financial statements, Sega would consider about abolish or Sonic franchise and even give up package game business.

Please remember 2012 restructuring, They loss over 7.6B yen (individual) during FY2012 and then. they give up make new franchise and their development ability is dropped,

 

SEGA knows that they're getting into.

 

To be quite honest, I highly doubt all of the supposed 20 million dollars is going to the version of the game that everyone knows is going to underperform. It doesn't make any sense.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

wait.. I don't like abolish Sonic franchise. I like Sonic and Sega Sammy Group and their Subsidiaries (Especially TMS and Paradise Sega Sammy), But If Sonic boom would be serious damage to Sega's financial statements, Sega would consider about abolish or Sonic franchise and even give up package game business.

Please remember 2012 restructuring, They loss over 7.6B yen (individual) during FY2012 and then. they give up make new franchise and their development ability is dropped,

Look even if this game doesn't do so hot on the Wii U, I'm pretty sure SEGA knows what they're getting into. Besides it could very well profit either way thanks to the Tv show, good marketing and whatnot. But seriously, lighten UP with that mantra of your's.

[JAiRO]

SEGA knows that they're getting into.

 

To be quite honest, I highly doubt all of the supposed 20 million dollars is going to the version of the game that everyone knows is going to underperform. It doesn't make any sense.

 

I seriously doubt more money is going into the 3DS version than the WiiU version.

[Sami]

I seriously doubt more money is going into the 3DS version than the WiiU version.

 

The TV show? Marketing? Without knowing where that money is going we can't speculate very accurately, but I highly doubt SEGA's crossing their fingers and praying the Wii U game pays off. Anyone smart won't make business decisions off of lofty hopes.

[JAiRO]

The TV show? Marketing? Without knowing where that money is going we can't speculate very accurately, but I highly doubt SEGA's crossing their fingers and praying the Wii U game pays off. Anyone smart won't make business decisions off of lofty hopes.

 

I think it's more a matter of you couldn't spend more than 10 million dollars developing a 3DS game, portable versions are almost always inferior to their console counterparts. The cost of developing on Wii U will surely exceed that of developing on 3DS.

 

Like you said though, there's no way to know for sure.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I think 20m dollars break even is 1,000,000~1,570,000 copies and I think this game isn't over break-even..

 

No it's not. It's around 1 million units sold. Its nowhere near 1.5 million.

 

I did the maths in another topic based on the sales for both Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 6. Their budgets vs total sales within a reported time frame. 

 

At best estimate it's around 1 million units needed in the first week just to break even.

 

Which is never going to happen regardless as to how much faith you have. Just look at the facts, or even Lost World, had a lot of hype going into it, reviews didn't come out until day 1... only ships 600k, which isn't the number sold. So Sega would need to ship more than 1 million units and hope that over 90% of those shipped units are sold.

 

Not going to happen.

 

 

Also for those people saying "Well that $20 million is probably for the other game/toy line" erm no it's not.

 

Big Red Button have said their budget is $20 million. Thats their budget for this project. They would not have the budget or have anything to do with the budget for either the 3DS version or the toyline since it has nothing to do with them.

 

Mind you, you might want to consider that this game isn't meant to profit (since there's no way in hell it will do), and it's more of a marketing campaign for Sonic Boom as a brand.

[Tani Coyote]

You know, I was thinking about this and something hit me.

Was Sonic 1 a financial success?

Let us consider that to market it, it was bundled with the system, which loses money by itself right there, but the system itself also was marked down from 200 to 150 (if I remember the numbers right in USD). That sounds like a MASSIVE loss waiting to happen there. The console itself takes a hit, as does the game since now it's being given away for practically free.

But the game was so great that tons of people bought a Genesis, which made room for Sonic 2 to be extremely successful; it's the best selling game to date.

So I think this will pay off in the long term. Boom will be a critical success and sell well in Wii U terms; it may lose financially, but sequels can take care of that because you'll have thousands if not millions of people interested in the branch. What's most important is this game say "Sonic is back" to older gamers and "Sonic is cool" to younger gamers more than anything else.

Now, whether SEGA will make future Boom games multiplat or Nintendo-only, who knows. I'm hoping multiplatform unless they really want to make the most of the Wii U's tech. I find said tech rather obnoxious personally, so I don't really feel strongly about that.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Was Sonic 1 a financial success?

 

Yes.

 

Well that seems to be in order.

 

Yes it was. When it came out it took 5% of the videogame market from Nintendo which was unheard of, also it then went on to be used as a way to sell consoles thanks to the bundle deal which ended up taking another 10-15% which nobody thought was possible.